IndieStatik Founder apologizes for "inappropriate" comments to female game dev

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Even he says it doesn't justify it. His depression and being drunk EXPLAINS his behaviour, but as with, say, getting in an car accident while DUI doesn't make you innocent, he does acknowledge it doesn't excuse his behaviour either or free him from possible consequences. Something like the death of your brother can cause you to behave differently. Grief can have a variety of effects on people, everyone handles it differently (some well, others badly), but of course it doesn't make it okay and as I already said, he too acknowledges it.

Bingo.

My wife tells me she was being grumpy with me because she was on her period, and apologizes anyway because she knows that it's not an excuse. He never said his depression was an excuse, just the root cause. Understanding you have a problem doesn't mean you no longer have a problem because of that understanding...

Why are people reaching so hard to find a way to shift blame to him instead of the sum of his life experiences and just hope he finds help and change? I'm betting the reactions in this thread are far worse than what she herself would have to say about it.
 
People want him to retire? I understand what he did was inexcusable but the man was drunk (if what he said was accurate) and should just give him a second chance. He recognizes what he did was wrong and does not fall on alcohol and the death of his brother as a scapegoat. I haven't heard of any other bad news from him so yeah.... although I am suspicious how he knew that the phallic region for a woman has 14 more nerves than a man's..... You just don't come up with stuff like that on the fly.
 
First off, GJ to Leigh Alexander trying to make a woman's struggles about how to handle someone in a position of potential power over you all about yourself and you getting shitfaced during a podcast...which, mind you, I actually (sort of) enjoyed her liquid confidence. But, still, you got drunk and Internet-ed in a widely listened to and public place. As the gentleman who this thread is about can tell you (assuming he is being honest), that is always a terrible idea. But, eh, lots of people drunk Internet, you just happened to do yours somewhere where a lot of people listened to it as opposed into some random place. It happens; life goes on. But...don't downplay what happened to this dev because you interneted drunk. Seriously, you apologized, most reasonable people accepted it, and life goes on. Crap like that tweet make me wonder if you're just looking for a reason to not take full responsibility for your drunken shenanigans, but I'll assume the best for now about it.

<sigh> Jaffe, Jaffe. If you read the whole feed, it sort of makes sense-ish? (I'm trying to always assume the best, it's a character flaw). I generally ignore twitter conversations - I'll wait till we have non 140 character limited thoughts on the topic. Twitter is pretty much designed for cherry picking arguments, and in a culture that has skewed heavily in the last 14+ years towards self-selection; this seems like a poor way to cast judgment on anyone's true thoughts.

I think what Jaffe is trying to get at it this:

One of the consistent dissonances you will always have between men and women (or at least for a damn long time) is that Men are socialized to respond to unwanted shit with aggression and force (if you don't respond with aggression and force, you will be harassed by other men and called pussies and often rejected by other women), while as women are socialized to respond to unwanted shit with more passive, subtle forms of rejection (otherwise you are called a bitch by other women and some men, or potentially provoke other men -- you'll also have your femininity questioned in either scenario, and often get rejected by men).

Needless to say, this leads to the following two scenarios in many cases:

Woman does stupid shit to Man, Man responds with aggressive rebuttal, Woman gets mad why Man had to be such an asshole about it.

Man does stupid shit to Woman, Woman tries to subtly / nicely / politely rebut it, Man not understand subtlety, Woman responds in some other way, Man not understand subtlety, this continues on for a while, eventually Man get mad why Woman not be aggressive and firm.

Since there are just enough exceptions to the rule for both sides to be confusing (Women know plenty of men and women who either escalate situations badly when directly confronted, or something similarly bad happens, and Men know just enough Women who are upfront and direct and aggressive, or who play hard to get and coy) - everyone generally ends up in a state of confusion unless the people specifically communicating have figured out how each other's specific tendencies.

I am stunned that any of you are surprised Jaffe, a male game developer who has gotten himself to a peak on the food chain in terms of talent and success in an extremely competitive industry, might be an extremely aggressive / direct person who has probably had to be extremely blunt and straightforward most of his working life. Go figure that someone who has had success due to all of this might think it is the best course of action. >_<

Personally: I think in this case, I understand the game dev not wanting to get directly aggressive with the journalist, due to their respective positions within their industry. That said, I understand where Jaffe is coming from; he believes that being direct and aggressive would realize better results. This is not something that is new, nor is it something that is entirely male (you would see a better skew of this by wealth than by gender or race) in its belief.

Hell, in my personal case, it's reversed. I love my mother very much, and while she is passive aggressive 90% of the time, she would (and has) fucking chew someone's head off if they did something she saw as bullshit, position of power be damned. My dad has more than once not invited her to work events that he has been part of, even though they worked in the same place, just because my mom would have told off their mutual senior management for being dipshits. Which, mind you, she was completely correct on at the time. My dad is Mr Subtle / signs dude. I'm still torn on which philosophy I prefer - while my dad definitely got further with his philosophy, my mom's philosophy falls under the "what I would want someone to tell me if I were in that situation".

TL;DR -- Gender Socialization is a bitch, I hope that the developer has received a personal apology and is able to move on in her life and career without detriment due to this event, genuinely hope the dude figures his shit out and at least learns and grows from it, and we all could use a healthy dose of empathy when dealing with people in general.

EDIT: One more TL;DR - Wheaton's Law should be followed; IE, Don't Be A Dick. If you're ever questioning whether something is over the line, ask yourself "Could I reasonably sound like a dick if I say this?" You might still mess up - but it is less likely and usually far more forgivable.
 
People want him to retire? I understand what he did was inexcusable

Actually it was excusable, and moreover not a crime, just boorish, loutish behavior.

...But the internet has judged him and the internet is law. 12 months isocubes, lifetime ban from the game industry and game media, limited career potential. In a little over a year he can request a partial pardon by giving a talk on sexual harassment before the tribunal at GDC.

3215167-dredd.jpg
 
Since it won't let me edit my last post: I'll add this general rule

Follow Wheaton's Law: Don't Be a Dick. If you're not sure something is appropriate, ask yourself "Do I sound like a dick, or could this reasonably be taken as being a dickish move?" If you aren't sure, or the answer is Yes, don't say it (or couch the hell out of it to make it clear you aren't sure this is appropriate or not, but you really just shouldn't say it). You'll still probably mess up, but it is usually far more forgivable.
 
Drunk for 8 hours...

Wonder what drink he had.

When you're struggling with alcoholism, are you ever truly sober?

Since it won't let me edit my last post: I'll add this general rule

Follow Wheaton's Law: Don't Be a Dick. If you're not sure something is appropriate, ask yourself "Do I sound like a dick, or could this reasonably be taken as being a dickish move?" If you aren't sure, or the answer is Yes, don't say it (or couch the hell out of it to make it clear you aren't sure this is appropriate or not, but you really just shouldn't say it). You'll still probably mess up, but it is usually far more forgivable.

GAF is usually pretty quick to edit a post, actually. You may have to refresh the page to see it, though.
 
Disgusting behavior by that guy. I don't blame the lady for not responding directly. Women both instinctively and through societal conditioning are often extra careful about making men angry. There are some real predatory nut jobs out there and many women genuinely fear for their safety when responding to something like this. I am not saying that this man in particular posed any danger, I am merely talking about the larger dynamics at play. As for this guy, he needs to get his act together.
 
I... expected much worse given the history of these types of incidents. The thread is huge so perhaps there's more to it, but the conversation in the OP was just stupid and a public apology seems rather ridiculous.
 
Actually it was excusable, and moreover not a crime, just boorish, loutish behavior.

...But the internet has judged him and the internet is law. 12 months isocubes, lifetime ban from the game industry and game media, limited career potential. In a little over a year he can request a partial pardon by giving a talk on sexual harassment before the tribunal at GDC.

3215167-dredd.jpg

Cocaine is a hell of a drug. (Insert Internet for Cocaine and it'll make sense)
 
I... expected much worse given the history of these types of incidents. The thread is huge so perhaps there's more to it, but the conversation in the OP was just stupid and a public apology seems rather ridiculous.

....I don't know that there's any reason for a public apology, but I wonder how this could be any worse? Threats would be worse, but that thread wouldn't just say 'inappropriate'.
 
Wait, according to the tweet from the game dev's friend, this journalist dude didn't have a personal relationship with her? So what was all that "she is my sunshine" talk that he wrote in his apology?
 
....I don't know that there's any reason for a public apology, but I wonder how this could be any worse? Threats would be worse, but that thread wouldn't just say 'inappropriate'.
Well, he could have continued after she made it clear that he was being rude/she didn't want to be treated this way. That would have been worse than this, without directly escalating to threats.
 
The Jaffe stuff is just the icing on the cake.

Everyone go read the Grantland story on Dr. V (LINK) and the response at Grantland from the Editor in Chief (LINK) and a Board of Directors member of GLADD (LINK).

Controversy, sober reflection, measured response.

That's how they do it in the big leagues.

I'm gonna start calling him "Double Down" David Jaffe.

And that Dirty Talk Dating, holy fuck.
 
Some hard ass motherfuckers in this thread.

But yeah, based on that video, he seems a little predisposed to creepiness.

Still, I don't like when people act like an apology is a bad thing. Even if its effect is minor compared to the offense. But I am highly empathetic and forgiving by nature (to a fault) so that's just my perspective.
 
not to make light of the situation but a friend of mine wrote a slow jazz version of the exchange that had me dying:
girl

have a seat
sit back, relax
and let dr mattingly tell you about your clitoris

did you know you got 14 nerve endings in there?
damn, 14 nerve endings... that's 14 different ways i can make you feel good
i'm gonna take you on a mustache ride, girl

first i'm gonna kiss your vagina
i'm gonna take care of you girl,
then right when it feels like you can't walk
i'm gonna blow you like a trumpet

mmm mmm mmm
i hear you're going through some hard times...
a divorce...
but don't worry baby, me and this stache are gonna make it all feel good
you see your old man
he could barely work a nerve ending
let alone two
but i'm different
i know you got needs girl
you got 14 different nerve endings... and they all need the same thing
 
Shit, I would have thought having that convo slip would be punishing enough. How embarassing. Guy ain't smooth at all.
 
not to make light of the situation but a friend of mine wrote a slow jazz version of the exchange that had me dying:
girl

have a seat
sit back, relax
and let dr mattingly tell you about your clitoris

did you know you got 14 nerve endings in there?
damn, 14 nerve endings... that's 14 different ways i can make you feel good
i'm gonna take you on a mustache ride, girl

first i'm gonna kiss your vagina
i'm gonna take care of you girl,
then right when it feels like you can't walk
i'm gonna blow you like a trumpet

mmm mmm mmm
i hear you're going through some hard times...
a divorce...
but don't worry baby, me and this stache are gonna make it all feel good
you see your old man
he could barely work a nerve ending
let alone two
but i'm different
i know you got needs girl
you got 14 different nerve endings... and they all need the same thing

.... that was fantastic.
 
not to make light of the situation but a friend of mine wrote a slow jazz version of the exchange that had me dying:
girl

have a seat
sit back, relax
and let dr mattingly tell you about your clitoris

did you know you got 14 nerve endings in there?
damn, 14 nerve endings... that's 14 different ways i can make you feel good
i'm gonna take you on a mustache ride, girl

first i'm gonna kiss your vagina
i'm gonna take care of you girl,
then right when it feels like you can't walk
i'm gonna blow you like a trumpet

mmm mmm mmm
i hear you're going through some hard times...
a divorce...
but don't worry baby, me and this stache are gonna make it all feel good
you see your old man
he could barely work a nerve ending
let alone two
but i'm different
i know you got needs girl
you got 14 different nerve endings... and they all need the same thing
smooth jazz? no, this is a detroit grand pubahs jam.
 
I generally ignore twitter conversations - I'll wait till we have non 140 character limited thoughts on the topic.
Twitter is pretty much designed for cherry picking arguments, and in a culture that has skewed heavily in the last 14+ years towards self-selection; this seems like a poor way to cast judgment on anyone's true thoughts.
.

This and the whole "140 characters limit not fit for proper arguments" thingie gave you away mate ;)

Total Bisquit.
Cybit= cynical Brit

Do I win anything? :P
 
"Sorry i was an arsehole... you see *sob story*"

FART

Hahaha looooooool. Summed up my exact thoughts. This happened the other day with the PAX guy I believe it was.

I could feel her trying to ignore it the whole time and play along hoping he'd go away. That guy needs a motherfucking fleshlight pronto. Creepy ass fuck!
 
This and the whole "140 characters limit not fit for proper arguments" thingie gave you away mate ;)

Total Bisquit.
Cybit= cynical Brit

Do I win anything? :P

Yes, yes you do. Cybit/Total Biscuit has to stimulate those 14 extra nerve endings of yours until you shiver.
 
She seemed pretty okay with the conversation. Might have been awkward, but she didnt say "Humm." or signaled in any way that she didnt want the whole vagina talk. I dont really see the problem with this. If two adults talk and one of them talk about sex, and the other do not say anything against it, and even accept it with smiley faces and jokes about it, then I really have no problem with that. It's not like she said "Hey could you tone down the jokes?" or even went with a more brutal, "No." and he continued.

A big meh on the story from my perspective. I dont care what they do in private.
 
Bingo.

My wife tells me she was being grumpy with me because she was on her period, and apologizes anyway because she knows that it's not an excuse. He never said his depression was an excuse, just the root cause. Understanding you have a problem doesn't mean you no longer have a problem because of that understanding...

Why are people reaching so hard to find a way to shift blame to him instead of the sum of his life experiences and just hope he finds help and change? I'm betting the reactions in this thread are far worse than what she herself would have to say about it.

Because people don't think sexual harassment to that degree, is a result of being drunk.

Edit: I'm just answering your question.
 
It really seems like "mental illness" has become the default crutch excuse for certain people who don't have social development skills and have no interest in developing any. This guys wasn't drunk for 8+ hours, no one was going to buy that excuse...so out came the depression card. It's pathetic and mocks those who actually suffer from that issue. Depression doesn't lead to the disgusting, cavalier behavior he initiated.

That dating video seals the deal: dude is a creepy loser. You can also tell that the dating experience he discusses is fabricated, and that the woman in the video is getting major creeper vibes from him.
 
It really seems like "mental illness" has become the default crutch excuse for certain people who don't have social development skills and have no interest in developing any. This guys wasn't drunk for 8+ hours, no one was going to buy that excuse...so out came the depression card. It's pathetic and mocks those who actually suffer from that issue. Depression doesn't lead to the disgusting, cavalier behavior he initiated.

That dating video seals the deal: dude is a creepy loser. You can also tell that the dating experience he discusses is fabricated, and that the woman in the video is getting major creeper vibes from him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSV89iBphY4

That title.

My sides.
 
Look at all the gentlemen here out for blood. I guess none of you ever got shitfaced and did something you regretted the next day or whenever someone told you about it.
Well, I did. But that's okay because I can safely say that I have never put a private conversation online for people to see, to discredit someone in it, after I ignored anything the other person said that I didn't like and before I gave them a chance to apologize at least. And yes, I know that her friend put it online.

Yeah, the posting of a private conversation is generally pretty messed up, even if done with the best of intentions. From all appearances there was no attempt to handle this privately, from the victim, which is understandable, or her friend. If anything, the friend should have contacted the guy first, before going public.

Yes because firstly, it's basically the lowest form of tabloid journalism. For a bunch of "journalists" who constantly prattle on about wanting to raise the bar in the industry, chasing this and making it a story is a really odd tactic to take. Secondly, there are a lot of missing pieces here and this could have gone and still could go very badly for a lot of people including the nameless victim in a lot of different ways. It's just idiotic to make this "news", and because people are acting on emotion and not thinking, there can be some unintended and dire consequences. In short, this story isn't going to do a damn thing to really address the larger issue of sexual harassment, and it might ruin more than just Josh's career as it circles the toilet that is gaming journalism.

The main issue I have with the whole scenario is the fact that this became public before any attempts were made to deal with it privately. A private conversation, idiotic as it might be, does not necessitate an internet shitstorm. Hell, people were calling for the man's head and for a public shaming in the original thread, even before the full unedited conversation was out. Whistle blowing can be effective but generally when other avenues have at least been tried. Looking at the conversation, it reads very much like a series of drunk texts, ones that shouldn't have happened, but also ones that could have been handled in a non-public setting. It is barely news, and is WAAAAY inside baseball.

Not at all to say that the dev did anything wrong in trying to shoot down the guy politely by ignoring what he was saying, but if it was an issue, there should be a way to have a third party mediate it if the harassed party feels uncomfortable bringing the situation up to the harasser. The internet mob should pretty much be the last resort in any situation like this. I don't see why Jaffe is getting hate for his comment either, it generally makes sense.
 
When practicing what you preach goes wrong. Makes me think his excuses are bull.


I can't believe this video was a thing, Josh Mattingly, please go high up in the himalayas and become a monk. Now I know this guy was not drunk, he knew what he was doing and is just trying to pick himself back up.
 
Look at all the gentlemen here out for blood. I guess none of you ever got shitfaced and did something you regretted the next day or whenever someone told you about it.
Well, I did. But that's okay because I can safely say that I have never put a private conversation online for people to see, to discredit someone in it, after I ignored anything the other person said that I didn't like and before I gave them a chance to apologize at least. And yes, I know that her friend put it online.

He sure wasn't drunk enough to not do business. Guy seems pretty coherent in asking for a scoop. Putting someone who works in your industry and thus has working relationships and a reputation within it, on the spot between professional talk and unwarranted sexual advances is pretty despicable if not completely unethical.

I don't really see how you can view this in a sympathetic light. And that's even assuming the guy was drunk (we don't know that for sure).
 
Maybe he is in love with her and she just broke his heart. Nothing says "Be my Valentine" like "I will kiss you on the vagina." I wonder if he thought he was being incredibly suave and effective that entire time. I wonder if this approach has worked for him in the past, because he really came out swinging for the fences and was disturbingly tenacious at it.
 
How the flying fuck does Jaffe think his viewpoint is in any way rational? The lady was clearly trying to brush it off (as any normal person would do in that situation) in a non-hostile way. How he thinks that "Oh well she didn't say stop, so it's her fault for letting him say those things to her" is an acceptable viewpoint is a pretty damning indictment of him.
What's even more baffling is how many people are defending him in this thread. Luckily it's a minority, but fuck...
What a disgusting piece of victim-blaming shit. LOL @ divorce being a "signal". Wow, fuck you very much.
 
He sure wasn't drunk enough to not do business. Guy seems pretty coherent in asking for a scoop. Putting someone who works in your industry and thus has working relationships and a reputation within it, on the spot between professional talk and unwarranted sexual advances is pretty despicable if not completely unethical.

I don't really see how you can view this in a sympathetic light. And that's even assuming the guy was drunk (we don't know that for sure).
I don't really see how you can infer that the poster has any positive opinion about the dude in question and doesn't think what he did was despicable. It is clear that that post is talking about something completely different, separate from the posters opinion of the guy in the OP. One can make the valid points in that post without disagreeing that what happened was despicable and unethical.
So she's unprofessional for trying to be polite and diffuse the situation? It's pretty fucking obvious that she was uncomfortable in those messages, but apparently that dude and some people are robots and have no knowledge of social cues.
Yeah, putting this out in the open instead of talking to the dude is real professional.
 
Wow.

I'd find it difficult to take offense. Those comments are so ludicrous and overtly sexual.

And the other participant seems far too tolerant.

Who was the apology for, exactly? The sexism gods? The dude was drunk and the female game developer didn't do anything to stop his idiotic comments. Heck, perhaps she even goaded him on partially. These comments are what happens when people aren't in their right minds.

Edit:
I'm still trying to comprehend why this was made public.
 
Maybe he is in love with her and she just broke his heart. Nothing says "Be my Valentine" like "I will kiss you on the vagina." I wonder if he thought he was being incredibly suave and effective that entire time.
Guy just has no game; I find "tongue punch your fart box" much more effective.


I do find it a bit funny though that she let him just go through his whole act without acknowledging what an ass he was being, and then posted the conversation up later. I suppose that, out of the 14 more nerves that a clitoris has over the head of a penis, Josh must have been on her last one.
 
Wow.

I'd find it difficult to take offense. Those comments are so ludicrous and overtly sexual.

And the other participant seems far too tolerant.

Who was the apology for, exactly? The sexism gods? The dude was drunk and the female game developer didn't do anything to stop his idiotic comments. Heck, perhaps she even goaded him on partially. These comments are what happens when people aren't in their right minds.

Part of the problem.
 
Even he says it doesn't justify it. His depression and being drunk EXPLAINS his behaviour, but as with, say, getting in an car accident while DUI doesn't make you innocent, he does acknowledge it doesn't excuse his behaviour either or free him from possible consequences. Something like the death of your brother can cause you to behave differently. Grief can have a variety of effects on people, everyone handles it differently (some well, others badly), but of course it doesn't make it okay and as I already said, he too acknowledges it.

If he wasn't trying to excuse his behavior he should never have brought it up at all. He should have just said he was going through a traumatic time and left it at that. The way it comes out is that he is using the death of his brother as an excuse. Personally i find it incredibly distasteful bringing up his brothers suicide as a part of his excuse for acting like a sleeze.

Saying that he let his 'mental health and alcohol abuse get the best of me' comes of as an excuse. It's a cop out and people blaming their actions on mental health like this affects the other people suffering from diseases like depression (note i say depression and not just grieving).

Judging from what has been posted on this page it sounds like his excuses are complete and utter bullshit which makes him bringing his dead brother into it even more disgusting.

Also don't know how people are defending Jaffe, some of those comments are straight up embarrassing, what an asshole.

Wow.

I'd find it difficult to take offense. Those comments are so ludicrous and overtly sexual.

And the other participant seems far too tolerant.

Who was the apology for, exactly? The sexism gods? The dude was drunk and the female game developer didn't do anything to stop his idiotic comments. Heck, perhaps she even goaded him on partially. These comments are what happens when people aren't in their right minds.

Do you know how many victims of domestic violence stay in their relationship out of fear (perhaps from their partner hurting them or what other people will think or any other number of reasons)? Do you think it's their fault that they're being abused? I know that's a much more extreme example but the point remains, just because the person being harassed or mistreated doesn't explicitly say no doesn't mean the other party wasn't in the wrong.

On top of that alcohol abuse has become a cop out excuse for everything. Even when i'm really drunk i still have enough wits about me to not say stuff like that (and personally that didn't look like drunk texting).
 
I don't really see how you can infer that the poster has any positive opinion about the dude in question and doesn't think what he did was despicable. It is clear that that post is talking about something completely different, separate from the posters opinion of the guy in the OP. One can make the valid points in that post without disagreeing that what happened was despicable and unethical.

Yeah, putting this out in the open instead of talking to the dude is real professional.

I actually quoted the wrong person. Although it doesn't change the context of my post, and how I feel about this situation.
 
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