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[quest]

For better or worse, the "average consumer" only knows and does what the "big corporations" tell him. Up until now, said corporations were all distracted by this slap fight that they were all involved in regarding what they should tell the consumer to do, now that it's settled, they can start working the "average consumer" over.

They can work over the average consumer all they want. Once they find out that new blu disc won't work in the mini van, bedroom or kids play room they will just pass it over. Thanks to years of sub 50 dollar players DVD players are basically attached to every TV in the house. Thanks to portable units getting sub 100 dollar people own those now also. That and many family mini vans and SUVs come with standard DVD players in the back to keep the kids busy. All DVD had to do was replace the VCR in the living room. Blu has to replace the cheap DVD player on every tv and 10s of millions of portable units.

 

[kaching]

The marketplace has roundly proved that image quality is not of paramount mainstream importance and, if that is indeed the case, then all these worries about download pipes are unfounded. For us niche consumers who care about that sort of thing, we'll have Blu-Ray, but your average Joe is going to be more than happy with 1000 pieces of 480i media on his 500gig WhateverBox to supplement his DVD collection.

The problem with your logic is that if marketplace cares not about image quality and sub 10 inch displays are becoming the norm, then people are already demonstrating a willingness to buy more than what they need in the form of a DVD - not like they're really going to get the full benefit of DVD resolution out of such small displays. If the consumer doesn't care about image quality, then it's not what entices them to buy but neither does it stop them from buying either.

 

[Tiktaalik]

And absorb the high cost of developing and manufacturing a proprietary format? That doesn't sound like Nintendo.

They did it with the Gamecube didn't they?

 

[MickeyKnox]

We shall see. The slowing of DVD sales is more emblematic of a bigger long term problem for the studios. If the back catalog sales ship has truly sailed, then BluRay is not going to be the savior.

Content isn't a static thing, and I completely agree with the fact that most people will not double dip on most of their dvds.

 

[Davidion]

I figure though those people will want to stretch out their use of their DVD player before they have no choice but get a Blu-Ray player when releases they want are Blu-ray only.

But I think we are digressing here from the original topic.

I guess the real question is, does Nintendo feel the need yet for the space for a blue-laser based optical media offers?

Probably not, but that's really not an issue right now anyhow. Aside from Blu-Ray's imminent victory in the format wars, the next generation is still a few years off and it's debatable what the relevant content delivery system will be in a few years. Wait until late 2009/2010 when Blu-ray may actually have some kind of meaningful presence in the market and things will likely be a bit clearer.

 

[Jtrizzy]

I think you make good points here, but won't the automakers include Blu Ray and HDTV's in the minivans 5 years from now?

 

[Warm Machine]

Lets say that Digital Downloads for movies do happen in the next 4 years. By that time studios will be moving 10 - 20 gig movies to peoples homes in a short time span. Having a solid state memory console hooked up to the net for digital content delivery would make sense only because it would feasible.

The big question is will a game company (any game company) rely on customers to all have a internet connection and support their business in that fashion?

In reality it'll probably remain physical and all on Blu-Ray. Its not like Sony thought about not using DVD in PS2 because Toshiba was the major player in that. Nintendo and Microsoft will follow suit. Especially MS in this as they want a full on all in one media center for the home.

I do think that anything that can kill piracy and not have a negative effect to the customer is the right direction to go regardless of what happens.

 

[Grayman]

If this is true, that would be considered a failure from a business perspective. They need back catalog TV and movie repurchasing to take off to make the kind of money they are used to making.

Those purchases are lessening at the same rate over time whether it's a new format or not.

Although I have a good amount of dvds I don't nearly have all the movies and tv shows that I will ever buy. I just won't buy the first 2 spider-man movies again, or another copy of terminator 3. There are countless movies and shows that I haven't bought that I may buy on blu ray if they are released.

New format or not those sales will be similar now. There may have been a rush of people spending hundreds of dollars at once replacing most of their vhs tapes but that was over more than 5 years ago.

 

[Tobor]

Content isn't a static thing, and I completely agree with the fact that most people will not double dip on most of their dvds.

Absolutely true, but new content sales alone are not nearly enough to drive the kind of numbers the studios have been enjoying the past few years, which I think we agree on.

 

[YYZ]

The only thing holding them back from doing this with PSP2 is that it would make it even more of a rampant piracy system

But it would be using the same format as the successor to the DS?

Sony knows the UMD is a failure so continuing to use that would be punishing the gamers that are actually buying the games for real. If they could do something secure with digital distribution then I wouldn't mind, as long as load times and battery life aren't a compromise for more "security".

 

[Jtrizzy]

Forget the technical limitations of DD, think about the resistance that Wal-Mart and the rest of the retail world will put up. Wal Mart's lobbyists alone would be powerful enough to kill this or at least delay it for a decade minimum.

 

[godhandiscen]

You know what, crow tastes good.

After the award they gave Kutaragi at DICE, I started remembering the great things he did for gaming, and how bad the media and gamers everywhere (including me) treated him because of his decision to include a BluRay player with every PS3. Kutaragi single handedly won the format wars for Sony and I am pretty certain that at the end of this gen Sony will claim back it throne as king of sales. I might not like Sony games and not even own a PS3 myself, but I have to recognize the greatness of a company that is pushing the industry forward. I used to believe that Microsoft had the correct idea, and yes it did when it came to their business, since including a expensive HD drive would have raised the price of the console, but when it come to games, its pretty clear that the DVD is holding back its amazing hardware. Thats all I ave to say.

edit; I still believe digital downloads are the future, but I wish the 360 had a bigger media, bigger than a DVD.

 

[Tobor]

Forget the technical limitations of DD, think about the resistance that Wal-Mart and the rest of the retail world will put up. Wal Mart's lobbyists alone would be powerful enough to kill this or at least delay it for a decade minimum.

:lol It's a little late to kill it, don't you think? The foxes have moved into the henhouse and made themselves comfortable.

 

[kaching]

Absolutely true, but new content sales alone are not nearly enough to drive the kind of numbers the studios have been enjoying the past few years, which I think we agree on.

What's old will be new to a new generation of buyers soon enough, complete with a brand new super-deluxe special edition that they're pulling out of the vault for a limited time only!

 

[Kodiak]

I predict nuclear holocaust before the next consoles come out.


I'll be kickin some mutant ass.

 

[Golden Darkness]

but I have to recognize the greatness of a company that is pushing the industry forward

Really?

Has the industry actually moved anywhere?

 

[n1n9tean]

Another "DD is so far in the future we'll need a Delorean and a Mr. Fusion to enjoy it" argument, huh. Interesting.

/buys full game on Steam while simultaneously downloading a 2GB 360 demo

Cool. You have a good broadband speed. Now, think outside of your own personal situation.

In the same way that Sony, MS or Ninty aren't going to clip off the millions of SDTV owners by forcing HD output ONLY with their hardware; neither will any of them take a DD-only route in favor of those with T3 connections.

Simply because something may be ideal in theory doesn't make it logical in practice. There's always more you have to take into consideration.

I personally do my best to keep up with technology. I have an affordable 720p/1080i LCD TV and a decent broadband connection that gets the job done. But these companies know better than to grab us consumers by our necks and attempt to yank us along in order to keep up the pace of their movement toward new technology.

My call: There won't be a DD-only console next gen; but, maybe the generation after that.

 

[Cheerilee]

Well, Blu-Ray has won one battle.

Blu-Ray didn't win. HD DVD lost (Warner and Wal-Mart killed it). There's a difference. Now Blu-Ray has a chance to prove it's theory that it could win if it were only a one-man race.

What will this mean for Microsoft and Nintendo's next-gen systems though?

*shrug*

Is it truly definite that they'll make use of it as a storage medium?

Ha ha, no.

 

[Jtrizzy]

Tobor--You are right about killing it, but do you see Wal Mart carrying devices that allow people to download and save movies directly to their hard drive? Also wouldn't there have to be massive changes to the current laws regarding net neutrality etc for this to happen? Seems as if the cable industry would fight this as well, seeing is it would cut into on demand profitability . By no means am I an expert on all this (as you can probably tell) so I'm more than open to any explanations as to why I'm wrong.

 

[Tobor]

Cool. You have a good broadband speed. Now, think outside of your own personal situation.

In the same way that Sony, MS or Ninty aren't going to clip off the millions of SDTV owners by forcing HD output ONLY with their hardware; neither will any of them take a DD-only route in favor of those with T3 connections.

Simply because something may be ideal in theory doesn't make it logical in practice. There's always more you have to take into consideration.

I personally do my best to keep up with technology. I have an affordable 720P/1080i LCD TV and a {i]decent[/i] broadband connection that gets the job done. But these companies know better than to grab us consumers by our necks and attempt to yank us along in order to keep up the pace of their movement toward new technology.

I have a basic Comcast account, not a T3, but whatever.

 

[narcosis219]

Flash memory cartridges or something. No load times FTW.

 

[godhandiscen]

Really?

Has the industry actually moved anywhere?

I'll let somebody who is more into Sony answer that question, but afaik, the PS1 and PS2 did a lot for gaming.

 

[Tobor]

You are right about killing it, but do you see Wal Mart carrying devices that allow people to download movies directly to their hard drive? Also wouldn't there have to be massive changes to the current laws regarding net neutrality etc for this to happen? Seems as if the cable industry would fight this as well, seeing is it would cut into on demand profitability . By no means am I an expert on all this (as you can probably tell) so I'm more than open to any explanations as to why I'm wrong.

Last I checked, Walmart sells Xbox 360's and PC's. Both can download full movies, TV shows, and (on topic)games today. They also sell iTunes and Xbox points cards, which will pay for the downloads.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Blu-Ray didn't win. HD DVD lost (Warner and Wal-Mart killed it). There's a difference. Now Blu-Ray has a chance to prove it's theory that it could win if it were only a one-man race.

That's like saying Blu-ray movies didn't beat HD-DVD movies sales 52 straight weeks in a row in 2007, it's just that HD-DVD was underselling 52 weeks in a row. :lol

 

[Jtrizzy]

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about things that mass audiences use. People don't use their PC's to watch movies, and I there aren't enough people with 360's to where it's something the movie industry is going to gravitate too. I'm talking about stand alone devices that would replace a DVD or Blu Ray player.

 

[Kittonwy]

This is assuming that sales will increase with a new format. More likely, the sales are slowing because people aren't purchasing anything.

There's nothing to assume, it will increase because retailers like Walmart can now give it the push it needs, consumers were hesitant to embrace either format because of the uncertain future of both, this is not an issue anymore.

 

[Kittonwy]

Blu-Ray didn't win. HD DVD lost (Warner and Wal-Mart killed it). There's a difference. Now Blu-Ray has a chance to prove it's theory that it could win if it were only a one-man race.


*shrug*


Ha ha, no.

That's like saying your face ran into my fist instead of me punching you in the face.

 

[Cheerilee]

That's like saying Blu-ray movies didn't beat HD-DVD movies sales 52 straight weeks in a row in 2007, it's just that HD-DVD was underselling 52 weeks in a row. :lol

No, those were small, regular victories. Warner and Wal-Mart already supported Blu-Ray. Blu-Ray "gained" nothing from the recent news. Except that their enemies were destroyed and they became the only choice.

Edit:

That's like saying your face ran into my fist instead of me punching you in the face.

More like saying you didn't "win" our boxing match, because someone in the audience threw a brick at my head.

 

[Wollan]

That's like saying your face ran into my fist instead of me punching you in the face.

:lol

 

[Reilly]

Blu-Ray "gained" nothing from the recent news.

why did you put gained in quotation marks?

 

[Tobor]

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about things that mass audiences use. People don't use their PC's to watch movies, and I there aren't enough people with 360's to to where it's something the movie industry is going to gravitate too. I'm talking about stand alone devices that would replace a DVD or Blu Ray player.

Well, If you're going to discount everything until your point is made, then why bother to discuss it?

I guess what would fit your now narrower description would be the Apple TV, and no, Walmart doesn't carry it. Bravo.

 

[neojubei]

Really?

Has the industry actually moved anywhere?

If your first console was NES or SNES then yes, if it was PS2 and or Xbox, then no.

That's like saying your face ran into my fist instead of me punching you in the face.

No use in talking to people like that, Kittonwy, he will believe what he wants.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

Sony and Microsoft's next consoles will include faster bluray drives, Nintendo will include HDDVD to combat piracy (Since nobody will have a HDDVD burner)

 

[n1n9tean]

Last I checked, Walmart sells Xbox 360's and PC's. Both can download full movies, TV shows, and (on topic)games today. They also sell iTunes and Xbox points cards, which will pay for the downloads.

Okay let me get this right (and don't get all pissed like I'm being sarcastic; because, I'm not): Are you suggesting that anyone thinks digital distribution isn't currently a serious means of content distribution (games, movies, etc.) and won't be for a long time?

Digital distrobution is here, it's very convenient, and it's quite popular......among and for a certain eligible crowd.

Also, of course DD and physical media IS and will continue to co-exist. I just thought that you were talking about DD-only (and getting rid of physical media).

The question is when will the masses (mass market, mass consumer) accept and adopt it. If a guy goes into Wal-Mart and buys a PS3, 360 or PC and then goes home and downloads something, that download has nothing to do with Wal-Mart (well, unless he bought a points card from there or something like that I guess...technically).

 

[Kittonwy]

No, those were small, regular victories. Warner and Wal-Mart already supported Blu-Ray. Blu-Ray "gained" nothing from the recent news. Except that their enemies were destroyed and they became the only choice.

And you're saying Blu-Ray didn't win when HD-DVD got destroyed?

 

[Tobor]

There's nothing to assume, it will increase because retailers like Walmart can now give it the push it needs, consumers were hesitant to embrace either format because of the uncertain future of both, this is not an issue anymore.

You misunderstand what I was saying. I have no doubts Bluray sales will increase. I doubt they will increase to the same pinnacle as DVD. That's not Blurays fault, it's a shifting of consumer interests.

 

[neojubei]

No, those were small, regular victories. Warner and Wal-Mart already supported Blu-Ray. Blu-Ray "gained" nothing from the recent news. Except that their enemies were destroyed and they became the only choice.

Edit:

More like saying you didn't "win" our boxing match, because someone in the audience threw a brick at my head.

bitter much?

 

[tjhooker]

Means more money for Sony.

The more devices that are Blu-Ray capable and the more Blu-Ray discs that are pressed the more monet Sony makes.

I doubt Nintendo will go with a Blu-Ray drive but MS will definitely have to come grovelling for one if they're still in this industry which I very much doubt.

 

[Tobor]

Okay let me get this right (and don't get all pissed like I'm being sarcastic; because, I'm not): Are you suggesting that anyone thinks digital distribution isn't currently a serious means of content distribution (games, movies, etc.) and won't be for a long time?

Digital distrobution is here, it's very convenient, and it's quite popular......among and for a certain eligible crowd.

Also, of course DD and physical media IS and will continue to co-exist. I just thought that you were talking about DD-only (and getting rid of physical media).

The question is when will the masses (mass market, mass consumer) accept and adopt it. If a guy goes into Wal-Mart and buys a PS3, 360 or PC and then goes home and downloads something, that download has nothing to do with Wal-Mart (well, unless he bought a points card from there or something like that I guess...technically).

Are you responding to me or Jtrizzy? Because you and I are in complete agreement, and now I'm confused.

 

[Kittonwy]

Last I checked, Walmart sells Xbox 360's and PC's. Both can download full movies, TV shows, and (on topic)games today. They also sell iTunes and Xbox points cards, which will pay for the downloads.

It's a matter of margin and volume, what you're selling on a Blu-Ray is $20-30 worth of content on a disc that costs less than a dollar to make, consoles have little to no margin, PC margin has been slim at best for years, how many PCs/360 can a store sell in a day compared to a $20 movie on a Blu-Ray disc? The problem with point cards is that it can be sold online easily and people still like the idea of going to a store and physically picking something up, the distribution of physical formats is still dominated by brick and mortar stores, THAT's why they don't really want digital distribution because it's not something they can control. If they were ok with movies going digital distribution they would never go as far as to end the format war like they have, they want to keep things at the retail level and that's what a physical disc format offers.

 

[patsu]

No, those were small, regular victories. Warner and Wal-Mart already supported Blu-Ray. Blu-Ray "gained" nothing from the recent news. Except that their enemies were destroyed and they became the only choice.

The victory was symbolic because everyone now sees Blu-ray as the successor to DVD.

Since there is no confusion, the retailers can also dedicate sales and marketing resources to push Blu-ray (e.g., offer discounts, bundles to promote sales). This is in addition to the manufacturers' promotion exercises.

 

[fanboi]

That's like saying your face ran into my fist instead of me punching you in the face.

:lol kittyown

 

[Kittonwy]

You misunderstand what I was saying. I have no doubts Bluray sales will increase. I doubt they will increase to the same pinnacle as DVD. That's not Blurays fault, it's a shifting of consumer interests.

That remains to be seen, if anything I think having the push to HDTVs will help drive Blu-Ray adoption, and when we start seeing 32" HDTVs going for less than $1000, that's when things will really start taking off.

 

[Cheerilee]

And you're saying Blu-Ray didn't win when HD-DVD got destroyed?

They did technically win the war of HD-vs-BRD, but it was by default, not because of some breakaway success (which hasn't happened yet, although with no barriers in it's way anymore, it probably will). They didn't "win". HD lost.

 

[n1n9tean]

Are you responding to me or Jtrizzy? Because you and I are in complete agreement, and now I'm confused.

:lol Well, hey man maybe we are then. But, like I said, I just thought you we saying that DD-only would be a reality between now and next-gen. If that's not what you were saying then it was just a misunderstanding. If it was what you were saying then I thought that was a rediculous idea and I was explaining why I felt that way. SO that's why I asked that question of whether you though anybody actually though that...well, basically that digital distribution doesn't currently exist. :lol It sounded like you were saying that it would more than co-exist very soon; that it would take over.

[edit]Appearantly your original comment on the subject was directed at those thinking there was something wrong with the idea of DD and not to us who say that it won't go main stream anytime soon (at least not for gaming anyway).[slash/edit]

Ahhh forget it. Good night all.

But, I do realize you're running two arguments at once and I won't touch the other one (BD vs. HD-DVD).

 

[Golden Darkness]

I'll let somebody who is more into Sony answer that question, but afaik, the PS1 and PS2 did a lot for gaming.

Honestly, I don't remember those two doing anything besides making gaming a young male hobby, and marganlizing everyone else and trying to disassociate console gaming as not to be target towards kids anymore (considering the pushing of titles that are never safe for kids period)

But my earlier statement referred to the PS3, mostly. I saw nothing from that. I see... more of the same, only with more hostility from the hardcore towards the other demographics.

But as I said before, this is not what the thread's about.

This is whether will Microsoft and Nintendo will choose Blu-Ray.

And maybe I should state what I should have stated back in my opening post.

Nintendo will not likely pick Blu-Ray because of its Sony connections (you can't not help associate Blu-Ray with Sony, despite the other companies involved), and well, given Nintendo's history with Sony...

 

[Tobor]

It's a matter of margin and volume, what you're selling on a Blu-Ray is $20-30 worth of content on a disc that costs less than a dollar to make, consoles have little to no margin, PC margin has been slim at best for years, the problem with point cards is that it can be sold online easily, the distribution of physical formats is still dominated by brick and mortar stores, THAT's why they don't really want digital distribution because it's not something they can control. If they were ok with movies going digital distribution they would never go as far as to end the format war like they have, they want to keep things at the retail level and that's what a physical disc format offers.

MS, Apple and Sony(I believe you are familiar with them, good sir) are laying down massive amounts of money to get this rolling. It really in the end doesn't matter what Walmart and Best Buy want.

The game console/media center/PC convergence works both ways, and a slim margin hardware only business is inevitable. Those super slim margins never kept PC's off the shelf, and a steady stream of accessory sales will keep game consoles in stores, long after the disc sales have blown away.

 

[Kittonwy]

They did technically win the war of HD-vs-BRD, but it was by default, not because of some breakaway success (which hasn't happened yet, although with no barriers in it's way anymore, it probably will). They didn't "win". HD lost.

HD-DVD lost because it was getting its ass handed to it by Blu-Ray week-in and week-out even despite Toshiba doing a price drop, it's called a TKO.

 

[Tobor]

;lol Well, hey man maybe we are then. But, like I said, I just thought you we saying that DD-only would be a reality between now and next-gen. If that's not what you were saying then it was just a misunderstanding. If it was what you were saying then I thought that was a rediculous idea and I was explaining why I felt that way. SO that's why I asked that question of whether you though anybody actually though that...well, basically tha digital distribution doesn't currently exist. :lol

But I do realize you're running two arguments at once and I won't touch the other one (BD vs. HD-DVD).

I don't care one iota about BD vs. HDDVD, never have. And I do think game consoles will eventually be DD only, if not next gen, then the one after that.

 

[Kittonwy]

MS, Apple and Sony(I believe you are familiar with them, good sir) are laying down massive amounts of money to get this rolling. It really in the end doesn't matter what Walmart and Best Buy want.

The game console/media center/PC convergence works both ways, and a slim margin hardware only business is inevitable. Those super slim margins never kept PC's off the shelf, and a steady stream of accessory sales will keep game consoles in stores, long after the disc sales have blown away.

It does matter when places like Walmart and Bestbuy are essentially the means to distribute these consoles/vehicles by which the digital content is being delivered to, and if Walmart/Bestbuy didn't matter then we wouldn't have seen HD-DVD being dead in the water so fast, retailers still have a ton of clout, your console/hardware isn't going to be successful at all without retailers backing it. That's not to say that right now we even have the proper pipeline to deliver high quality digital media to homes, because we don't and we won't for years, that and we would have to pretend hard drive storage is adequately cheap compared to a disc format and it's not.