Couldn't be him because they left him there to go find cthulu gas mask drug dude in Walter White underoos.
True Detective - McConaughey/Harrelson crime series - S2 starts June 21st
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
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Brawndo Addict
Banned
I was having trouble putting my finger on exactly what was starting to bother me about the show, but this is basically it. I'm sympathetic to Rust's worldview but it increasingly feels like the writing is morphing into a broader diatribe about how blind 'normal' people are to the 'real truth' about the world. That if they were as insightful or smart as Rust, they would suffer like he does, that he's a true martyr for not 'lying' to himself and staring into the abyss willingly. I have a similar problem with the Coen brothers.
I hope to eat my words and discover instead that the new detectives are purposefully letting Rust talk. There was a moment where one detective was getting ready to cut him off but the other raised his hand in a "stop" motion. I would hate however, if the show continues along the 'truly enlightened martyr' theme and ends with [speculation]
Rust taking the blame for the murders even though he knows that another person is the true killer. I can't help but feel this has already been heavily telegraphed given Rust's obsession with the Garden of Gethsemane and the idea of accepting one's own crucifixion.
I find this interesting because I see Rust's worldview as growing increasingly contradictory. As Hart says, "For someone who thinks existence is meaningless you sure spend a lot of time thinking about it". If you subscribe to Rust's belief that consciousness and identity are an illusion and that we are merely biological meat-puppets who accidentally evolved to think we are 'aware', then why do you have a problem with religion or religious thinking?
Is not everything we do, as Rust says, a result of our programming? In a worldview without free will I fail to see where the disdain and contempt for religion comes from. They can no more "choose" to be atheist any more than you could "choose" to believe. The easy answer is that the contempt is just a result of your programming, but given its recursive and self-defeating nature most don't find this a particularly compelling answer.
This is particularly important when we come to the issue of why Rust doesn't commit suicide. The cop-out answer he gives is that he's programmed not to and that he lacks "the constitution". Focus instead on his preliminary comment; "I'd like to think I bear witness". I don't think it's a particularly controversial idea to say that if someone truly believed life and everything within it was meaningless that they would commit suicide. Like many who ascribe to Rust's philosophy but refuse suicide, Rust is incapable of acknowledging or realizing that he does believe in meaning of some kind, or else he would kill himself.
Most end up being hedonists of some form or another, finding existence to be preferable to non-existence, which is in itself a value statement and a source of meaning. This is what Albert Camus called the 'creation of meaning' which he saw as a form of philosophical/logical suicide in order to find psychological comfort. For Rust, the shape this takes is a form of sadomasochism in which life's purpose is to gaze openly and honestly into the abyss and embrace all of life's suffering without complaint. It may seem contradictory, but Rust and many like him obtain a perverse sense of superiority and sanctification from embracing suffering. They actually enjoy being depressed and take great pleasure in judging others as inferior for not being privy to the 'secret/obvious truths of reality' they have tapped into.
Whether the writer of the show self-adheres to Rust's worldview will probably become apparent by the end, in which case I would I expect Rust's 'argument' to be vindicated or honored in some way, such as the guess I spoiler tagged above. I foresee the ending's 'message' to exalt those who refuse to avert their eyes from the abyss and admonish those who look away, without any sense of self-awareness that the latter group are also lying to themselves and that judgement of this kind is in of itself a source of meaning and life.
D
Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
I think his monologues are well written and acted, but the juxtaposition within the video itself isn't very good. It needs to be given over much much more complex montages. I also just haven't given much thought to his pessimistic monologues and how they fit in with the overall narrative.
They're just tonal noise.
They need to just go wholehog-abstraction and have the show drift away into these passages with equally poetic imagery. Framing as a conversation between the two is just awful.
They're just tonal noise.
They need to just go wholehog-abstraction and have the show drift away into these passages with equally poetic imagery. Framing as a conversation between the two is just awful.
Karak
Member
Shit duh.
Thanks I forgot after seeing the Bigfoot sighting at the end
I also firmly believe they are in a "let Rust talk" interrogation which is fairly standard to see what someone will say. We have the stopped interruption as well and also some of the small bits with Marty where they interrogate him a good deal differently which makes sense both because they are different people but because they are eying something with Rust.
Rust has a high creep factor with his "the dead welcome it" speech and with his constant talks about having latent effects from drugs that just suddenly stopped...hmmm.
I personally love the cuts between the two. Rusty in his dream world and Marty after his dream is broken.
That would be sad as the writer isn't known for being so blatantly amateurish to have to doggedly stick to something he believes at the risk of ruination of a story just to fit his personal thoughts. Man that would fucking BLOW
emiranda061288
Banned
these monologues and the show itself seems very forced to make us believe that we have complex characters and smart writing, I just see a lot of characters that until now are one dimensional and at this point they still don't star to develop any layer of personality... let's wait to see if the show becomes better.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
That would be sad as the writer isn't known for being so blatantly amateurish to have to doggedly stick to something he believes at the risk of ruination of a story just to fit his personal thoughts. Man that would fucking BLOW
I don't know anything about his work history so my post is pretty judgmental for being so uninformed. But Rust's lines seem to be regularly crossing the line from character to personal sermon, which is usually a sign of the writer's beliefs leaking in. I don't mean to imply that Rust's character is written 'wrong', just that the ethos of Rust seems to be threatening to swallow the actual character of Rust. Rust is so over the top that its making the show seem too absolutist (or perhaps that's the point). Regardless, I can't help but assume we're in a vindication versus redemption situation, where Rust loses the battle but wins the war so to speak, or is slowly convinced to reevaluate life in a more positive light.
I realize that's a rather trite evaluation coming from someone with little experience in this realm, and I expect, and hope, to be completely wrong. Hopefully the show is pulling a meta-feint and purposefully setting it up so people like myself find themselves predisposed towards certain conclusions, when in fact the truth is much more clever. It's just that pseudo-nihilism and its smug sense of superiority and contempt for the 'unenlightened' has just been so popularized in media nowadays, particularly by the Coen brothers, that its hard to believe a show so seemingly draped in its trappings is going to subvert it. That said, that link posted above did include a snippet where a producer mentioned the show still having a sense of optimism despite all the darkness, so we'll see.
This is more or less where i am at.
The interest comes more from the exceptional acting, than the writing itself.
A lot of times it feels over written, and they keep hammering the same point, to the detriment of subtlety.
However, maybe that is completely intentional and perhaps they are going somewhere with it.
I couldn't really stomach your post in general, but this is where I became nauseated
Daffy Duck
Member
I may be totally wrong but one of the photos they showed whilst rust was looking at the file looked an awful lot like Marty's wife....
HalfBakedProphet
Member
I bet there is a direct correlation between the amount someone is offended by what Rust has to say and to how smug they find him. He touches a nerve and I think its great. Marty is usually there to counter balance Rust's arguments, I'm not really sure how anyone could see it as one sided.
I don't see any agenda either, but i think these monologues simply aren't all that interestingly written (again, unless there is a twist on them later on).
They often go on too long and sometimes the story stops to let Rust get to the end of his point even though said point has already been made more than clearly.
As i said pages back, they ride the line between interesting reflections and eye-rolling philosophy.
I'm not familiar with Pizzolatto's works, so i don't know if it's his style, but so far i'm worried they'll play it straight, which would be a disappointment for me, as i see these moments as lacking subtlety.
They often go on too long and sometimes the story stops to let Rust get to the end of his point even though said point has already been made more than clearly.
As i said pages back, they ride the line between interesting reflections and eye-rolling philosophy.
I'm not familiar with Pizzolatto's works, so i don't know if it's his style, but so far i'm worried they'll play it straight, which would be a disappointment for me, as i see these moments as lacking subtlety.
bunbun777
Member
Cohle is not the killer, and yea the writing is a bit heavy handed, it would be nice to attribute the wordiness of some of the expressions as being a poetic nod to a man with a consciousness that has been seared by pain and a large amount of narcotics and hallucinogens but maybe not. He has admitted to being a coward and also "bad", he seems to share disdain for religious communication and belief but ascribes to a universal system that is not analogous with human interaction, making himself impotent and futile but still not willing to accept what he preaches in total. I can only think this is why he views himself as bad, for being hypocritical perhaps. Finding answers in the eyes of the dead seems to show a fascination with the world beyond that continues to affect this present one and he may be attempting to synthesize the two states which to some people may seem ridiculous but I think is somewhat entertaining.
The Artful Dodger
Member
Normally, I'd find the whole thing annoying but also these characters are fundamentally flawed characters, who are both in great denial. So I mean, him saying the things he's saying as a oppose to some character who can never do wrong is drastically different.
Because it's a waste of time? Look, we are just living in the dream of being people. There was no before, there is no after. Life itself may or may not be a mistake, but the level of awareness humans have gained through evolution is tragic. It makes us aware enough to be in awe of the universe and desperate to find meaning in all of it when there is none. We are only here a short time and the more we waste it on fantasy the worse off all of us are.
Anton Sugar
Member
I think juxtaposing the monologues with "poetic" imagery would feel even more try-hard. What kind of imagery, specifically, would you like to see?
I think we're supposed to feel a little ostracized by Rust--I certainly do. In the first episode, when he and Marty are in the car and he starts his first sermon, I was close to rolling my eyes...exactly like Marty. I don't think that is accidental. If I were to meet someone like Rust at a party, a dude sitting alone in the corner smoking cigarettes, looking forlorn, and spouting nihilism--I'd probably say "hi" once and never talk to him the rest of the night.
Rust is supposed to initially be very off-putting and, particularly in that first car scene, Marty acts as someone we can relate to. Marty, while a good detective and a smart guy, is much more of an "average" dude and easier to sympathize with. Rust's car talk, him showing up wasted on the doorstep--it seemed very selfish and embarrassing to me.
What I think the show is doing (or attempting to do) is to slowly take us from that position and deeper into Rust's mind or character. Not necessarily to make us "feel" for him, but to understand him. Similarly, Marty's vile habits start to come out from under the surface, pushing us further away from him. Marty even said in the last episode that he doesn't feel like himself or know what he's doing or where he's going. Whether or not it was an act remains to be seen, but it fits perfectly into some of what Rust has been stating about the nebulous state of human consciousness, awareness, and purpose.
I'm not saying it works completely--yet. For me, episode 2 and 3 made episode 1 "better", in that I DID better understand Rust, or at least I didn't dismiss him.
As far as characters contradicting themselves--I think some of that is intentional and "real". Marty accuses Rust of tunnel vision in his case work, but Marty has tunnel vision in his personal life/work. For Rust, case work IS his personal life/work.
I'm rambling now and may not be making sense, but this is masterful, IMO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOGoX1B6_2k
Maybe Rust envies the dead, even if he lacks the conviction to join them. I can't really imagine what that feels like, but I think the show has done a good job of exploring the mind of someone who does.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
I couldn't really stomach your post in general, but this is where I became nauseated
I assume you mean my last post? I didn't think anything in the one you quoted was that offensive. If so, I think you're confusing my discussion of nihilists like Rust as an attack of atheism. If you think I'm insulting the latter that's projection on your part. But for those like Rust who identify as nihilists and biological determinists and still focus a large part of their identity in anti-religious thought, yeah, I do find that inherently contradictory and worthy of scorn.
Also, I'm not sure where the untouchable reverence for the Coen brothers comes from, but if you found my quip nauseating I'd recommend exposing yourself to critics who have a more negative impression of their work. It's hard for me to see my comment as a slight and not more of a statement of fact. One merely needs to rewatch A Serious Man and Fargo to realize how one dimensional their filmography has become of late.
I'm not sure where you got the sense I was offended by what Rust said. As I said in my first post I'm sympathetic to many of his views but taken as a whole I don't find them structurally cohesive. I think a lot of people merely identify with Rust's anti-religious rhetoric and forget that first episode of characterization where Rust clearly endorses biological determinism and illusion of consciousness/awareness. I would identify Rust along the branch of nihilism first and foremost, but many people seem to want to peg him primarily with atheism which I think misses the point entirely and is more about the viewer than the character.
I also don't know how you don't see Rust's interaction with Hart as anything but smug, and it has nothing to do with the beliefs being espoused or viewer reactions. The locker room confrontation, the numerous quips Rust makes about Hart's hypocritical nature, the acting and delivery itself, you could choose many adjectives but I don't see how smug isn't one of them. That said my mention of smug was originally a perjoratice directed at pseudonihilistic media in the abstract, not Rust's character.
Finally, I just want to reiterate that as many others have posted, I don't have a problem with Rust's character in of itself, but with the way the show is using him. I find the show to be aware of Rust's flawed and contradictory nature (though not to the degree I would like or on the same level as Hart) but sometimes they seem to be more interested in using Rust as a existential mouthpiece rather than a character. I will be sorely disappointed if there is no explanation for why the detectives are letting Rust get drunk and ramble on and on about his angst when their goal is to either get helpful information about the case or implicate Rust. Is this a therapy session or an investigation? Why are they giving a potential suspect (in their eyes) a drunk defense or potentially compromising the reliability of Rust's leads? I hope there is a purpose beyond mere tonal window dressings.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
Okay this shit is exactly the problem I have with Rust's character. So you don't believe in meaning but yet you believe time can be wasted (I'll ignore the issue of time being an illusion of consciousness). So you must believe certain actions or behaviors are inherently worth more than others, else how could one waste a finite amount of time if all actions are equally worthless. That requires a belief in some kind of value scheme. And to believe that certain values should be pursued over others is to ascribe meaning to life.
I think you should try to reflect on the cognitive dissonance you are displaying and why it is you find certain beliefs so abominable despite saying everything is meaningless. Are the remote tribes of the Amazon wasting their time because they believe in spirits or other forms of mysticism? What makes your lifestyle superior to theirs? And if we are just meat puppets, there is no free will and no one chooses to believe or act at all. How could someone waste time in the abstract because of beliefs they have no control over, how can you ascribe fault to automatons without agency?
You realize Fargo was one of their very first films, made in the 90s rightt? And A Serious Man was 2009. I'm butting in on your argument with other posters here but if you can't appreciate commentary on how confused the human experience can be then that's totally ok. Writing off a show that emulates the No Country for Old Men theme of modern society being (as we see in the promotional poster) its own worst enemy, is fine but if so then I'm not sure this is the show/thread for you.
Your opinion is obviously something you're entitled to but that's my two cents on what the show is doing right, not wrong. No Country is probably my favorite movie though so maybe I'm overly zealous, but there you go.
How about this, people are wasting time in church when they could be out actually helping people. Everyone is so worried about THEMSELVES and their OWN SALVATION that it's ruining the potential of our species as a whole. I don't have such illusions or quandrums about life and use my time accordingly. I volunteer at a food shelter, I work at an animal rescue facility in the summer. I'm not a saint, I'm a stoner and slacker, but my point is, when humanity eventually gets over the fantasy of the afterlife and seeks to improve shit down here, down where it matters to the weak and oppressed who don't deserve to live a short life of misery while others live in a drawn out illusion of selfishness, we'll all be better off.
And it bothers me because it's not real, and we should be better than this. We have the power of intelligence and waste it.
I don't get the impression that the writer of the show is trying to get people to identify or subscribe to Rust's line of thinking. It makes good television and makes sense for the character to feel the way he does based on his history and things that have shaped him. If you identify with that world view, that's fine, but I don't think this show or the writer is aiming to do that at all.
Definitely not. I agree we're supposed to be seeing how disillusioned he is with life, I just think there's a ring of truth behind it all.
Of course, I have no qualms admitting his world view is not healthy.
I definitely wasn't trying to say that you don't have a right to feel that sorta way. I don't know the stuff you've been through. I would just say that a worldview both in television characters (and in real life), can change very quickly.
Maybe in the end Rust will find god...that's the twist!
EverythingShiny
Member
Thank you. I am genuinely confused as to why people think Pizzolatto is trying to force a certain viewpoint onto them. Maybe it's because Rust's monologues go without comment in 2012? Because otherwise, Marty's always there to call him on his shit.
Why don't people focus as much on Marty? Both Rust and Marty are hypocrites who say lots of things but their actions don't match up to what they're saying.
I'm reading Pizzolatto's novel Galveston right now and while there are traits of Rust in his main character (the main character makes little men out of beer cans and he's from East Texas), so far it's very different from True Detective.
I also don't agree with Rust's view on humanity (although I do sympathize with some of what he says because I've often felt the same way, especially about bringing other people down) but I'm not offended by it. I think it's fascinating and an excellent conversation starter.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
I've got to actually work soon, so this will be my last post but my comment was meant to highlight the juxtaposition between one of their early works (Fargo) with one of their later ones (A Serious Man). I thought this would be clear to anyone who had seen both films. As for the last quip, commentary is different from a diatribe and I can appreciate the former while having no patience for the latter. I'm not saying this show is a diatribe, just that it seems to start to lean in that direction a little too often (see my comment on why the detectives don't interrupt Rust).
You've missed the point entirely of what I posted but suffice to say I think its clear you're just anti religous and not a nihilist, which is totally fine (though you may mistakenly identify as one). You said you believe consciousness is an illusion and life is meaningless, but reread your post and ask yourself if you really believe that. I see someone concerned with notions of justice and fairness, with ideals of being honest to the 'truth' and helping others, with the grand potential destiny of our species. That doesn't sound like a Rust flavored nihilist to me. I'd also ask you to seriously reflect on what implications the lack of free will has on your beliefs, if any.
I realize I've derailed this thread enough and will stop.
Yeah, I don't want to derail it further either. And you've got a great avatar and username!
I'll just say that even though I find life meaningless, our lives aren't. We should do what we can to make people comfortable. I never said I was a nihilist, maybe deep down even agnostic, but yes very anti-religion. I did grow up in a catholic home by a mother consumed by guilt and loathing.
But whatever. That's not this show. But I wouldn't be surprised to find Catholicism in Rust's family either!
How is talking about the show's very themes derailing? I guess Cornballer can shed light on that, but i don't think these threads are only meant to be reaction posts and gifs and circle-jerking.
Anyway i just wanted to clarify, i'm not irked nor disturbed by Rust's personality, i'm annoyed by (some of) the writing that i find heavy handed and redundant.
I think the Religion monologue is a good example of this, it goes on too long when it is painfully clear what Rust's vision on the subject is, given that they've been reinforcing his character for 2 episodes before that.
And yet the scene goes on (relatively) forever, to the point where it sounds like a teenager writing about the "lie we live", more than simple character development.
And no, i'm not religious and really never have been (my family isn't even Christian) so i don't find that moment in any way irksome on a personal level, just indulgent to the point of triteness.
It came off to me as something searching desperately for cleverness or deepness, at the cost of subtlety, ending up with neither.
Anyway i just wanted to clarify, i'm not irked nor disturbed by Rust's personality, i'm annoyed by (some of) the writing that i find heavy handed and redundant.
I think the Religion monologue is a good example of this, it goes on too long when it is painfully clear what Rust's vision on the subject is, given that they've been reinforcing his character for 2 episodes before that.
And yet the scene goes on (relatively) forever, to the point where it sounds like a teenager writing about the "lie we live", more than simple character development.
And no, i'm not religious and really never have been (my family isn't even Christian) so i don't find that moment in any way irksome on a personal level, just indulgent to the point of triteness.
It came off to me as something searching desperately for cleverness or deepness, at the cost of subtlety, ending up with neither.
Cornballer
Member
This discussion has been fine so far. As long as it is related to the show, doesn't get personal, and isn't just a few people dominating conversation by repeating the same points, I don't see a problem with it. At the same time, if people feel they've said their piece and want to move on, of course that's ok, too.
Cornballer
Member
I don't think I linked the darknessbecomesyou update for this week. They have a few video links and some photos from Episode 3.
The Artful Dodger
Member
I'm religious, and I didn't find it remotely offensive. It's not really discussion about those polarities, both men are fundamentally flawed individuals, they're really two sides of the same coin, so it's really just an exploration of that.
Idk, that's just me though.
Cornballer
Member
That reminds me of Hart's a smart guy who's steady is hard to find quote in Episode 1. Neither of them has the ability to do this on their own, but it seems like putting them together resulted in its own set of problems eventually.
Sure.
To be more clear. i was making a distinction between the flaws of the characters and those of the writing.
The latter are the ones that "annoyed" me (in quotes because annoyed is even too strong of a word).
D
Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
I dunno, I don't care. I just think it could go a lot further into developing Russ's sense of place and why he is the way he is. They kinda hinted at it with the dozens of photos of dead bodys, I feel like they could absolutely handle it properly and not come off anymore try-hardy than it already does. (and it is pretty try-hardy already) Off the top of my head they could elaborate more on all the gruesome stuff he's seen. The show has such great photography already I think some high production value montages of beautiful violence would feel right at home.
So, in essence, vivisection photos. Lots and lots of vivisection photos.
It would be more entertaining at the very least.
HalfBakedProphet
Member
reading between the many lines. Offended seems very apt, but you at least take issue with his dialogue. You've said you don't like the fact the detectives in 2012 are giving Rust a soapbox to ramble on about his philosophy (or lack therefore). If you didnt have an issue with the content of what he has to say, I'm not sure why it would matter. Its giving insight into how the character thinks, sometimes directly and other times indirectly.
Would it be better if he was a "real" nihilist as opposed to a pseudo-nihilist, as you've said? At what point are you just arguing semantics? You must think yourself an expert...
to say something like that. You appear to have very set definitions and boxes which you're attempting to fit Rust's character into, he doesn't fit within those definitions, and is therefore fake. And therefore the dialogue is grating. And therefore its wasted time with no purpose to the show.
yes. Its right there in their discussions. The one where they were eating lunch gets right down to the nuts and bolts of it
Marty: "You're obsessive"
Rust: "you're obsessive too, just not about the job"
Rust: "People incapable of guilt usually do have a good time"
Marty: "You are incapable of admitting doubt, now that sounds like denial to me."
Rust: "I doubt that"
Marty's the one in a committed relationship, but Rust takes issue with his infidelity. Marty takes issue with Rust's lack of relationship ("past a certain age, a man needs a family")...there is no reason Rust couldn't have ended up just like Marty had his daughter not died. And vise versa.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
I return, though I'll try to be brief. Also, apologies to AkuMifune who I was being an arrogant dick to (behavior I unironically complained about even). If I really wanted to stop 'derailing', I wouldn't have felt the need to get the last word.
Well that's because the content of a line isn't the only thing that's important. The entire duration of the show could be Rust mumbling on and on but I think you'd agree that wouldn't be good even if we don't take issue with any of the specific words he's using? I feel that the quantity of that kind of content exceeds that which is necessary for his characterization or tonal background. So it takes me out of the show and it makes me notice and wonder why the new detectives are not behaving as they should and instead are letting Rust 'preach'. The show still has to make sense in-universe, and I look forward to finding out why they let Rust have his soapbox when they clearly have more important things to discuss.
As for the second bit, it's not that I think Rust is 'fake'; I think he's flawed and contradictory, in denial and oblivious to certain things, like all humans are, but the show acknowledges that to a certain degree. I just think they try to have it both ways sometimes by having Rust ultra-cognizant of a particular worldview yet not with regards to the subjects where he is clearly stepping outside his belief structure and should be aware of such. Had Rust not so clearly rejected any notion of free will in lieu of biological determinism, I would have accepted his religious soliloquy much easier. The show made him out to be too smart for him not be aware of the inherent conflict in his ideology there.
I also think you misinterpreted several lines from my posts, which may explain our somewhat hostile back and forth:
Well that's because the content of a line isn't the only thing that's important. The entire duration of the show could be Rust mumbling on and on but I think you'd agree that wouldn't be good even if we don't take issue with any of the specific words he's using? I feel that the quantity of that kind of content exceeds that which is necessary for his characterization or tonal background. So it takes me out of the show and it makes me notice and wonder why the new detectives are not behaving as they should and instead are letting Rust 'preach'. The show still has to make sense in-universe, and I look forward to finding out why they let Rust have his soapbox when they clearly have more important things to discuss.
As for the second bit, it's not that I think Rust is 'fake'; I think he's flawed and contradictory, in denial and oblivious to certain things, like all humans are, but the show acknowledges that to a certain degree. I just think they try to have it both ways sometimes by having Rust ultra-cognizant of a particular worldview yet not with regards to the subjects where he is clearly stepping outside his belief structure and should be aware of such. Had Rust not so clearly rejected any notion of free will in lieu of biological determinism, I would have accepted his religious soliloquy much easier. The show made him out to be too smart for him not be aware of the inherent conflict in his ideology there.
I also think you misinterpreted several lines from my posts, which may explain our somewhat hostile back and forth:
PhoenixDark
Banned
Outdoor Miner
Member
Damn!
EverythingShiny
Member
I know what you mean, but it's actually Marty's dialogue that causes me to feel the same way. I rewatched all three episodes in pretty quick succession and the points that Marty makes about family and family values, especially in the 2012 scenes, are very redundant when the episodes are viewed back to back. It's not just Rust. I'm still very impressed by the writing, though.
HalfBakedProphet
Member
I didn't mean to come off as hostile, apologies if that how it appeared
For all we know, Rust may have been religious before his daughter's death and that is why he appears so bitter on the subject
ok, but Rust's "mumbling" is in fact a small fraction of the show. We disagree that it is currently excessive. The specific words used aren't the issue, obviously. Were sitting here discussing nihilism when that word has never been used once within the show. How we are interpreting those words is where we differ. I think you take issue with what Rust is preach despite your claims to the contrary.
I think you're taking the definition of certain words to the literal extreme. Rust isnt a robot and people don't shape their lives by how words are defined. His experiences shaped who is he and the single biggest events in his life were the death of his daughter, breakup of his marriage and his time undercover. Is he contradictory at times based on textbook definitions of what you think a nihilist is? sure. Does that make his dailogue mumbling or nonsense? Of course not. People have multiple layers and emotions come into play; they may end up not being consistent on all subjects
For all we know, Rust may have been religious before his daughter's death and that is why he appears so bitter on the subject
The Artful Dodger
Member
I always felt like that's what's being implied.
Again, anything Rust or Hart says you have to completely take with a grain of salt. They're both telling their version of the truth. Which is obviously not entirely adding up. It sorta reminds me of stories by Faulkner.
I already had this potentially spoiled for me when someone mentioned that he was in two future episodes. Why would he be a recurring character unless...
Could be another red herring, I guess, but I suspect right now that he's the killer.
Could be another red herring, I guess, but I suspect right now that he's the killer.
AngmarsKing701
Member
Surprised at the dislike for Rust's character. I read it as a man scraped raw by the tragedy of his daughter. Rejecting belief of everything allows him to deny the tragedy itself.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
I see the same. I love Rust.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
I think we're talking in circles to some degree, and I'm having difficulty trying to come up with an alternative means of trying to explain my perspective. If I had a problem with the content of Rust's comments on religion however, I would be railing against atheism and not nihilism. If your point is instead that I appear to have fundamental philosophical aversions to nihilism, well that's certainty true and I didn't mean to try to mask that, so my bad if that's how it came across.
I'm not saying nihilism itself is unacceptable for any character though; it's more that I have a problem with the specificity and eloquence of Rust's perceived nihilism (or whatever you want to call it). He doesn't strike me as detective experiencing a crisis of despair following horrific live experiences; in a sense the writing is too good in that Rust is coming across as this tortured genius/intellectual, and some of the "lapses" I saw aren't things I would expect the kind of genius that has been presented to me not to have internalized through self-reflection. I feel I don't have much more to say about the subject though.
greycolumbus
The success of others absolutely infuriates me.
Was this blog post mentioned? It compares dialogue from the show (mainly from Cohle) to author Thomas Ligotti's The Conspiracy Against the Human Race. Some of the parallels are striking.
Pizzolatto apparently confirms he was inspired here.
Anyway, I'm definitely going to pick up Ligotti's book. I already have one book of his (Teatro Grottesco).
Pizzolatto apparently confirms he was inspired here.
Anyway, I'm definitely going to pick up Ligotti's book. I already have one book of his (Teatro Grottesco).
sheeeeit
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