True Detective - McConaughey/Harrelson crime series - S2 starts June 21st

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greycolumbus said:
Was this blog post mentioned? It compares dialogue from the show (mainly from Cohle) to author Thomas Ligotti's The Conspiracy Against the Human Race. Some of the parallels are striking.

Pizzolatto apparently confirms he was inspired here.

Anyway, I'm definitely going to pick up Ligotti's book. I already have one book of his (Teatro Grottesco).
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Ligotti's book should be mandatory reading in high school.

Then watch as Western Civilization collapses within one generation.
 
I feel like this show spends way to much time waxing philosophical and not much time with anything actually happening.

There is potential there, but the show isn't reaching it.

BennyBlanco said:
the last 2 episodes have been kind of a bore imo
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Exactly. The first episode was great. The following two....kinda soured me.
 
I think the show plays out more like an extended movie or novel. Yeah, it's been tense, but they're obviously building to something and I think we start to see the payoff for that next episode.
 
Hmm, quite interesting reading on that blog post, particularly the bolded as it applied to the last page or two of discussion.

Some readers seem surprised that you didn't mention Ligotti as a direct influence on Cohle, and some were of the opinion you were simply being coy about it. Are you a reader of Ligotti? How influential has his writing been on not only Cohle, but on the series as a whole?

Nic: The work and vision of Thomas Ligotti was very influential for imagining Cohle's overall worldview. I've tried to avoid discussion of Cohle's philosophies because the truth is, the audience cannot yet see the totality of Cohle's character or the story being told. His relationship to the philosophies he espouses in the first three episodes don't encapsulate the entirety of his character. For instance, Cohle can't be a nihilist-- he cares too much; he's too passionate; he yearns too much (so, in his way, he deludes himself as much as Marty does). Who he ultimately is, is not yet clear. Right now, I hope its difficult to tell whose side the writer is on, and I think that's the way it should be. And this might be paranoid, but this early on in the run, I really didn't want people accusing us of pushing some antinatalist or nihilistic agenda: the show's true agenda, and its relationship to those philosophies, won't be clear until the 8th episode finishes. At which point, if anybody still cared, I was hoping to get to discuss these things.

Anyhow: there was a clear line to me from Chambers to Lovecraft to Ligotti, and their fictional visions of cosmic despair were articulating the same things as certain nihilist and pessimist philosophers, but with more poetry and art and vision. And then I found that this level of bleakness went arm-in-arm with the genre of noir, and that aspects of the weird fiction I loved could be used to puncture and punctuate aspects of the noir genre that I loved. I mean, what could be harder, more unforgivingly noir than Thomas Ligotti's vision of what the human race is?

But I suppose I've been overly wary of having people define Cohle solely based on the philosophy he espouses in the first three episodes, because the truth is that the whole of his character and his journey is much more complex than that. Having said that, if this leads people to discover and explore Ligotti's work, then I'll be very happy. And for the record; I don't personally share those philosophies, but one of the reasons Ligotti is an important literary writer is because it's important for us to confront the potential of the true abyss, its possibility, and I can't really think of a contemporary writer who can define that abyss as well as Ligotti.
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Well as someone with no prior exposure to Pizzolatto's work he snookered me for sure in terms of my evaluation of him and the message he was trying to send. Although I didn't see Cohle as a true nihilist anyway, they seem to be intending on taking him in a different direction that I predicted. I'm not sure whether that reflects positively or negatively on the way the first three episodes worked if they intended them to come across as more ambivalent. I really think they should have reigned back on Cohle more if that was their intention, because as I've said before, I don't get the sense that Cohle has any sense of awareness of this internal conflict (even though the show itself does), which makes any later transformation, however small, harder to believe.
 
Catching up now on 102. "You know, throughout history I bet every old man probably said the same thing and the old men die and the world keeps spinning" is an absolutely perfect and brutal quote.

This show is poetry.
 
Rewatching episode one... They're doing the interviews to make up for lost records taken by hurricane Rita. What all the talk of "they're being interrogated?"


I mean, I forgot that detail too.
 
Brawndo Addict said:
I think we're talking in circles to some degree, and I'm having difficulty trying to come up with an alternative means of trying to explain my perspective.

I feel I don't have much more to say about the subject though.
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gotcha. And I agree (about going in circles, I mean)
AngmarsKing701 said:
Surprised at the dislike for Rust's character. I read it as a man scraped raw by the tragedy of his daughter. Rejecting belief of everything allows him to deny the tragedy itself.
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Yup. Im really loving this show so far.
 
Jtwo said:
Rewatching episode one... They're doing the interviews to make up for lost records taken by hurricane Rita. What all the talk of "they're being interrogated?"


I mean, I forgot that detail too.
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I did too, but I'd wager many people in this thread simply don't buy that story at all. The jury's still out for me right now on that matter as well.
 
Brawndo Addict said:
Hmm, quite interesting reading on that blog post, particularly the bolded as it applied to the last page or two of discussion.



Well as someone with no prior exposure to Pizzolatto's work he snookered me for sure in terms of my evaluation of him and the message he was trying to send. Although I didn't see Cohle as a true nihilist anyway, they seem to be intending on taking him in a different direction that I predicted. I'm not sure whether that reflects positively or negatively on the way the first three episodes worked if they intended them to come across as more ambivalent. I really think they should have reigned back on Cohle more if that was their intention, because as I've said before, I don't get the sense that Cohle has any sense of awareness of this internal conflict (even though the show itself does), which makes any later transformation, however small, harder to believe.
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If Pizzolatto's goal is redemption via flashback or even redemption in the present-tense, though, I think we'll all stand and applaud when it's executed. We don't yet know what's driven Rust to his desperate world-view nor his apparently rekindled love for drinking et. al. It will be an interesting five weeks after we get over this Super Bowl hump for sure. I hope you're still watching as it unfolds as I'd like to see how you think of the show when the final credits roll.
 
PhoenixDark said:
Ee1Ea43.jpg
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Fuuuuugghck!!
 
aFIGurANT said:
If Pizzolatto's goal is redemption via flashback or even redemption in the present-tense, though, I think we'll all stand and applaud when it's executed. We don't yet know what's driven Rust to his desperate world-view nor his apparently rekindled love for drinking et. al. It will be an interesting five weeks after we get over this Super Bowl hump for sure. I hope you're still watching as it unfolds as I'd like to see how you think of the show when the final credits roll.
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I think we should all make up our minds right now, though!

Discussion about Rust is certainly interesting, but after a point it rings hollow for me. There are only so many conclusions that we can draw. They're barely one-third through the story. Let it unfold.
 
Socreges said:
I think we should all make up our minds right now, though!

Discussion about Rust is certainly interesting, but after a point it rings hollow for me. There are only so many conclusions that we can draw. They're barely one-third through the story. Let it unfold.
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The hype machine for this show is, maybe expectedly, so great. I like that it's somewhat polarizing because it really evokes some emotional response that a lot of otherwise bland procedurals lack. This two-week wait is definitely brutal to some of that momentum in that we're barely halfway through the wait for the showdown in hicktown (or whatever the show named it) but hopefully it will be well-worth the wait.
 
BennyBlanco said:
the last 2 episodes have been kind of a bore imo
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It's gotten better and better for me. The procedural case stuff is the least interesting part and I'm glad they're curbing it to really nail down these characters and who they are. The dialogue is exceptional and you can see the benefits of a singular voice behind the scripts, even though I'd admit it's the mood (from the music to the direction) and acting that truly elevates the show.

I'll be honest and say I've thought McConaughey's 'transformation' has been overhyped in the media but he's sold me with this performance. Just amazing.
 
Draconian said:
I'm just curious here, but what's wrong with his wife?
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It just seems like they are writing her as that stereotypical 'my husband is always working, wont spend time with me, therefore he MUST be cheating' cliche.

Granted she is right in this case, but without a speck of evidence to really support it.

So there is all that and just the fact that she is snappy, overly confrontational and just generally irritating.

Granted her husband is no better.
 
dan2026 said:
It just seems like they are writing her as that stereotypical 'my husband is always working, wont spend time with me, therefore he MUST be cheating' cliche.

Granted she is right in this case, but without a speck of evidence to really support it.

So there is all that and just the fact that she is snappy, overly confrontational and just generally irritating.

Granted her husband is no better.
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It's not hard to pick up on the clues that someone is cheating, and they certainly don't start and end with "he's never around." People do everything they can not to recognize them but this is obviously been going on for a long time so she's just about had enough.

Overly confrontational? Do you want the show to focus on their quiet time in the house folding laundry?
 
dan2026 said:
It just seems like they are writing her as that stereotypical 'my husband is always working, wont spend time with me, therefore he MUST be cheating' cliche.

Granted she is right in this case, but without a speck of evidence to really support it.

So there is all that and just the fact that she is snappy, overly confrontational and just generally irritating.

Granted her husband is no better.
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She has every right to act the way she does. She isn't overly confrontational from what we've seen, she's a very sympathetic character.
 
dan2026 said:
It just seems like they are writing her as that stereotypical 'my husband is always working, wont spend time with me, therefore he MUST be cheating' cliche.

Granted she is right in this case, but without a speck of evidence to really support it.

So there is all that and just the fact that she is snappy, overly confrontational and just generally irritating.

Granted her husband is no better.
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Wouldn't be a TV show thread on GAF without this kind of perspective.
 
dan2026 said:
It just seems like they are writing her as that stereotypical 'my husband is always working, wont spend time with me, therefore he MUST be cheating' cliche.

Granted she is right in this case, but without a speck of evidence to really support it.

So there is all that and just the fact that she is snappy, overly confrontational and just generally irritating.

Granted her husband is no better.
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She's like Skylar 2.0 amirite???//!
 
dan2026 said:
Its my view and I am sticking to it.
Woman is damn annoying and her husband is a twat.
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Why are you even watching the show? I mean, to kill an hour obviously. But it seems like its just the wrong show for you if you're unwilling to empathize with these people. The relationships depicted in the show so far are pretty accurate, lacking in melodrama and for the most part well written. They're upsetting and intentionally only highlight the tension but for the most part those are all things that actually happen to people. Thats basically how my family evaporated before my eyes as a child.

Watching some of those scenes and coming away with nothing more than "ha, what a bitch." and "boy, that guy is just awful" kind of misses the entire point.
 
Jtwo said:
Why are you even watching the show? I mean, to kill an hour obviously. But it seems like its just the wrong show for you if you're unwilling to empathize with these people. The relationships depicted in the show so far are pretty accurate, lacking in melodrama and for the most part well written. They're upsetting and intentionally only highlight the tension but for the most part those are all things that actually happen to people. Thats basically how my family evaporated before my eyes as a child.

Watching some of those scenes and coming away with nothing more than "ha, what a bitch." and "boy, that guy is just awful" kind of misses the entire point.
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There's a guy in the Boardwalk Empire thread that has spent the last two seasons relentlessly complaining about the show. Every week, utter disappointment and contrived criticisms, ad nauseum. It's bizarre.
 
Noticed the George Jones tribute, someone covering One Woman Man a little past halfway through episode 3. During the bar scene with the blind date.

One of my favorites. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWlmPBmqBk0

Show is alright I guess. I liked the first episode a lot more than the following, but I may stick with it.

Edit: And I guess George's version of that song is the cover and it's the original in the show! Oh well, would have been cool to be a tribute.
 
dan2026 said:
Its my view and I am sticking to it.
Woman is damn annoying and her husband is a twat.
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dan2026 said:
It just seems like they are writing her as that stereotypical 'my husband is always working, wont spend time with me, therefore he MUST be cheating' cliche.

Granted she is right in this case, but without a speck of evidence to really support it.

So there is all that and just the fact that she is snappy, overly confrontational and just generally irritating.

Granted her husband is no better.
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have you been in a relationship before? Have you felt your partner slowly pulling away emotionally? Its hard to ignore. Now imagine that situation with the uncertainty, all the confusion, the frustration...while also being married and have children. Now imagine your partner not taking part in the marriage or being absent most of the week.

Marty just randomly doesn't go home for DAYS at a time. He spends more evenings drinking than being home with his kids and uses his job as an excuse for his absence. From the perspective of the audience, we also know he's cheating too! Thats just the cherry on the shit sundae. The times we've seen Maggie alone with Marty, she has been understandably hard on him and for good reason. A little empathy will show that she is has a right to be upset. Actually, she has more right to be upset than she realizes. Is is cliche like you said? Maybe. But that doesn't mean it it hasnt been well done. So long as you attempt to see through the eyes of the character and empathize with her perspective.
 
dan2026 said:
It just seems like they are writing her as that stereotypical 'my husband is always working, wont spend time with me, therefore he MUST be cheating' cliche.

Granted she is right in this case, but without a speck of evidence to really support it.

So there is all that and just the fact that she is snappy, overly confrontational and just generally irritating.

Granted her husband is no better.
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It's not really a cliche though. Her husband is incredibly distant to her and shows next to no affection - it's pretty clear he's cheating. I notice many television wives get criticized for...being human and reacting negatively to being treated poorly by their husbands (Betty Draper, Skylar White, Carmella Soprano, etc).
 
PhoenixDark said:
It's not really a cliche though. Her husband is incredibly distant to her and shows next to no affection - it's pretty clear he's cheating. I notice many television wives get criticized for...being human and reacting negatively being treated poorly by their husbands (Betty Draper, Skylar White, Carmella Soprano, etc).
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Sometimes it comes across like a subconscious attempt to justify the husband's shitty behavior. "Oh he's almost justified because look at what a bitch she is!" Again though it's probably subconscious because people often explain their issues with the female character in nebulous or vague terms for the most part. It's oddly predictable!
 
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