Napoleonthechimp
Member
People develop into that. And people who aren't held accountable are quicker to fall into it than others who are.
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The Walking Dead Season 6, Part 2 Sundays on AMC
- Thread starter SamuraiX-
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People develop into that. And people who aren't held accountable are quicker to fall into it than others who are.
The Governor Era is long gone, my friend, embrace the New Age Rick.
Booker.DeWitt
Member
Jesus and Morgan would be killed if it was governor code
They crossed the line because they all know what a group like the saviors could do if they got the advantage. They've dealt with the governors group, terminus, and the wolves and each time they were caught by surprise. It only makes sense that Rick wants to protect this group (his family) by taking out the saviors before they figure out what's going on.
I wouldn't consider any of them too far gone just cause of what they've done to the saviors. They're killing a group of people who would've killed Sasha or Abraham, beat a 16 to death at hilltop, and not to mention all those photos we saw on the wall last episode. I agree it's a little unsettling to see Rick and the gang kill people like they have been but it's not like they're killing super kind people.
If Rick starts mowing down all his people like the governor then sure you can say he's too far gone. But again he's just doing what he thinks is best for his group/family. Is the group going to pay the price for everything that's happened? Yep most likely but that's on everyone else just as much as Rick. No one opposed his plan except Morgan. And we've even seen Daryl disagree with Rick before with the whole Beth situation.
I agree that he's much more cold than before, which is part of his character development, but there's a lot of "what if" and "it'll happen" here with not a lot of evidence to back it up. I'm talking about Rick exhibiting the psychotic cruelty and needlessly violent acts displayed by the governor.
They're much different in that way. Killing to protect yourself is vastly different from savagely gunning down a crowd of innocent people and hacking someones head off because you're fucking crazy. Very clear lines drawn here.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Because treating those kind of people like that is the only way the show can deal with that kind of issue (dehumanising nature of TWD world) without turning them into complete villains.
Anyway, considering we saw Carol's counterpart I wonder if they're going to spin Negan as the 100% unhinged version of the Rickinator. Or at least show what he could be if the worst possible circumstances.
The Governor totally had a moral code at the beginning. He just started to shed it, as it started to get in his way. He wasn't a totally crazy monster that was randomly killing people. He was doing calculated strides to ensure the survival of his group (with him at the helm).
Also, the next day after Rick crushed the neck of that hunter, he -for all intend and purposes- acknowledged that at times, his other side emerges and more-or-less-kind-of-sorta might not not enjoy it. And Coral heard it.
Rick might not be an exact 1-1 copy of the Governor (and why would he be?), but there are far more similitudes between them, than differences.
Also, the next day after Rick crushed the neck of that hunter, he -for all intend and purposes- acknowledged that at times, his other side emerges and more-or-less-kind-of-sorta might not not enjoy it. And Coral heard it.
Rick might not be an exact 1-1 copy of the Governor (and why would he be?), but there are far more similitudes between them, than differences.
True, the pictures on the wall is the only way they could make it palatable to the audience. It was an excuse to allow them to go on a killing spree. Honestly, it felt like the writers were pulling punches.
"Our group is going to do murder a bunch of people in their sleep, without any provocation, but then we'll show you a picture of how bad they're, so it's okay to kill them"
gioGAF
Member
Great episode!
I don't get how people are comparing the Group's actions to that of antagonist groups from the show. There is not Rick blood lust or Rick = Governor or Rick crossing the line. His character has quite clearly evolved because of the reality he and the Group has to face. There is no justice system, people that can get you killed have to be removed, you can't have liabilities.
Most examples provided here are garbage. That guy that was beating his wife, Rick called it, he needed to go because he would be dangerous. Guy ends up killing someone in one of his fits of rage, then Rick offs him. If Rick had offed him earlier, that could have been avoided. Rick f'n called it.
The Group is becoming a hardened group of survivors. They possess the qualities needed to survive. The whole second guessing and Morgan shenanigans are WEAKNESS. They have no place in combat situations. Make not mistake, that is what the Group is in, a combat situation. There is no time for nonsense. Open hostiles and potential threats need to be dealt with.
The show even goes the extra mile to show that the Group is in fact the GOOD guys. They are not initially brutal (example Jesus, couple that steals Darryl's motorcycle). The Hilltop group tells Rick about Negan's intro (killing kid to show they mean business). Rick and Co. did say they would take Alexandria by force if necessary, but they certainly gave them a chance. Negan's group would have come in, killed a few of them to set an example and then subjugated them for good (making them slaves). The Group certainly doesn't keep Polaroids of "kills" in their home. They don't kill for fun, they kill to survive.
Morgan has been an idiot this whole time. I get that you are struggling, but there is a difference between struggling with your actions and their consequences and being a blind idiot to what is going on around you. His first meeting with the Wolves was ridiculous. These guys openly admitted to killing people for pleasure, leaving them alive would just condemn other innocents to a horrible fate (fatal flaw of most "comic book" superheroes, not killing the maniac makes you directly responsible for all of his/hers subsequent victims). Morgan needs to get his shit together asap.
The whole Carol weakness was lame and out of left field. Frankly, it looks like she is getting the Tyrese treatment and might be on her way out. I sure hope not, I love how badass she has become.
This season has been great thus far, looking forward to the last 3 episodes!
I don't get how people are comparing the Group's actions to that of antagonist groups from the show. There is not Rick blood lust or Rick = Governor or Rick crossing the line. His character has quite clearly evolved because of the reality he and the Group has to face. There is no justice system, people that can get you killed have to be removed, you can't have liabilities.
Most examples provided here are garbage. That guy that was beating his wife, Rick called it, he needed to go because he would be dangerous. Guy ends up killing someone in one of his fits of rage, then Rick offs him. If Rick had offed him earlier, that could have been avoided. Rick f'n called it.
The Group is becoming a hardened group of survivors. They possess the qualities needed to survive. The whole second guessing and Morgan shenanigans are WEAKNESS. They have no place in combat situations. Make not mistake, that is what the Group is in, a combat situation. There is no time for nonsense. Open hostiles and potential threats need to be dealt with.
The show even goes the extra mile to show that the Group is in fact the GOOD guys. They are not initially brutal (example Jesus, couple that steals Darryl's motorcycle). The Hilltop group tells Rick about Negan's intro (killing kid to show they mean business). Rick and Co. did say they would take Alexandria by force if necessary, but they certainly gave them a chance. Negan's group would have come in, killed a few of them to set an example and then subjugated them for good (making them slaves). The Group certainly doesn't keep Polaroids of "kills" in their home. They don't kill for fun, they kill to survive.
Morgan has been an idiot this whole time. I get that you are struggling, but there is a difference between struggling with your actions and their consequences and being a blind idiot to what is going on around you. His first meeting with the Wolves was ridiculous. These guys openly admitted to killing people for pleasure, leaving them alive would just condemn other innocents to a horrible fate (fatal flaw of most "comic book" superheroes, not killing the maniac makes you directly responsible for all of his/hers subsequent victims). Morgan needs to get his shit together asap.
The whole Carol weakness was lame and out of left field. Frankly, it looks like she is getting the Tyrese treatment and might be on her way out. I sure hope not, I love how badass she has become.
This season has been great thus far, looking forward to the last 3 episodes!
Yup. Very awkwardly forced "character development" that placed her in a position to get bitten and killed, not to mention, directly endangering Maggie.
If she's going out, this is NOT the way. But then again, the audience has proven that the writers can push whatever shoddily written content they want and people will jump all over it because of shock and drama.
Just sticking around for Negan in hopes he'll get the writing back to good form.
And the examples provided for Rick is the same or very similar to where the Governor is going have fallen flat. He's cold but not a bloodthirsty, psychotic maniac.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
She has been struggling with this for awhile, at least since the Alexandria attack, and I think before that. Maggie being pregnant and out in the field also seemed to have a big effect on her, possibly because she lost her young daughter and has been acting as a mother to Alexandria. She also tried to help Sam only for him to die.
Carol forced herself to be a cold blooded killer, but Morgan has made her realize that she may not have to give up her humanity. It's not surprising that she wants redemption for the woman who she sees as her mirror image. Admittedly the second hesitation was probably just to set-up a cool death scene (that apparently didn't work properly) but I'm not going to begrudge them an opportunity to have someone stabbed onto a pipe and eaten by a zombie.
I get that some of these things have caused some sort of remorse and/or guilt, but Carol being emotionally impacted by someone who captured, berated, and taunted her, then tells her a 30 second story about her life which fall along similar lines to her own is total bullshit.
The real Carol would have reflected but ultimately done what she could to survive. They're prisoners on the brink of death, for god's sake. It makes absolutely no sense that she'd allow herself to jeopardize everything (including her own life and Maggie's).
Kinda tired of this whole "but she tripped" "but she relates to this new character so she let her guard down" shit that Carol evolved away from for 6 seasons. Come on.
Dunedain_Ranger
Member
Executing Sams dad while subdued on the ground by Abraham isnt doing what it takes to survive. Whether or not he killed Diana's husband Rick didn't have to shoot the guy. He WANTED to .
eyeball_kid
Member
I wasn't trying to say that Rick and the Governor are exactly alike, but the Governor's main motivation was protecting his "family", which was originally his zombie daughter, but then became the woman and daughter he met. In fact, look at the prison incident. The Governor could have just assaulted the prison with that tank, giving Rick's group no time to respond. Probably would've wiped out the prison. But instead the Governor tried to make a trade, tried to do what in his mind was the decent thing leave the prison, you get to live. Rick tried to pull a Morgan, the Governor lost patience and everything went south.
But when you compare that to the Saviours, Rick didn't even give them a chance. No dealmaking, no talking, just murder. Perhaps from an amoral perspective that's the right call based on Rick's experience. But if you compare the motivation and the action, Rick and the Governor are really no different on those fronts. Rick might even be a bit more cold-blooded now.
He also did it because he hated him for beating his wife, ruining his family, and murdering someone in a senseless rage, and endangering everyone in the community. And he only did it when he got the go ahead from Diana. I'd say that's not only justified but a preventive measure.
It was both. Yes, he also did it to survive.
xaosslug
Member
lmao, basically. I think peeps are looking way too deep in an effort to prepare themselves for Carol's death, which they seem to think is coming...
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Rick can justify his behaviour all he wants but it's his reactions (or lack thereof) that's the really disturbing thing.
It's something you expect from a psychopath, not the leader of the group we're expected to follow on a weekly basis.
It's something you expect from a psychopath, not the leader of the group we're expected to follow on a weekly basis.
The Artisan
Member
indeed. he shot pete with no hesitation and no remorse either.
Ya no worries I knew you weren't. I think the main reason Rick didn't want to give the saviors a chance is because everything added up to them not being people who would negotiate. They wanted to kill Sasha or Abe right off the bat and they are forcing hilltop to obey with volience. If your Rick and the group your obviously thinking these saviors are no different then all these other terrible groups we've run into.
The Artisan
Member
But Morgan is wrong though. Of course it's important to stay true to your humanity, but what Morgan is saying is just wrong. To put it blunt: All life is not precious. Not life that ends other life without mercy, ruthless, brutal, and evil.
That type of life is not precious and deserves to not have life of its own in an apocalypse like this.
Theanine3D
Member
I agree with almost all of this except for the part about the red-haired actress. I thought she was great. Her performance came across as very unhinged, like she was really trying to hold back an inner monster from coming out. It worked well wtih what they were going for.
I definitely agree about Carol's transformation back to weakness being too abrupt. It had absolutely zero buildup. It would have helped immensely if we'd been shown a scene in which she clearly showed remorse for Sam's death. The most we got was her placing a cookie on his grave, and she seemed really distracted in that scene, like what she was doing wasn't of much importance to her. No monologue or dialog with her stating she felt guilt in any way.
As a result her behavior in this last episode all comes across as so forced. Carol's been my favorite character for several seasons now so it sucks to see such bad writing damage her character like this.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
It was the moment when he was drenched in blood in the Hilltop that did it for me. I can understand defending himself and doing what he needed to but the man straight up doesn't seem to care about killing people.
That (as in that kind of person, not the action) would legitimately scare the crap out of me in real life.
I feel the villains are the ones who view life as not being precious which is why they find it to be so cheap, and as a result find it easy to brutalise others. The heroes of the story being so indifferent to killing any human could (IMHO) lead to some dark places.
Morgan is partially right. Just like Rick is partially right. There is a middle ground to be found and that's something that every one of our characters is struggling to find. Some people can be saved, others can't. And sometimes your going to have to kill, it's as simple as that. The hard part is deciding who is savable in this kind of world. Even the head wolf dude had a moment of good and saved Denise.
What the christ was up with this episode? So horribly written. The Savior's just had 10-20 of their own people slaughtered, and they didn't seem to really give a shit... in fact they instead felt like sharing stories of their past lives with the people who did said killing. To understand the absurdity of this, imagine what Rick and crew would've done if the Saviors had just killed half their group, and they got a hold of a few of them. Yeah... and the main antagonist actress was horrible.
And then Carol faked a nervous breakdown to get them to underestimate her, just like she has done before... oh wait, she didn't fake it, even though it was so completely out of character and out of the blue that I still can't honestly believe it was real. Who wrote this? I've been loving the season so far, in fact I think the show has never been stronger, but this was just utterly bad.
This, so much this.
And then Carol faked a nervous breakdown to get them to underestimate her, just like she has done before... oh wait, she didn't fake it, even though it was so completely out of character and out of the blue that I still can't honestly believe it was real. Who wrote this? I've been loving the season so far, in fact I think the show has never been stronger, but this was just utterly bad.
This, so much this.
But Morgan cannot be partially right by claiming "all life is precious" when it's clearly not.
Some people need to die in order to save the lives of others, and this statement directly contradicts Morgan's ENTIRE philosophy.
It's weak, flimsy logic in a world full of death and despair. In real life, he'd be dead already. He's directly responsible for scores of innocent deaths and ironically caused more harm than good.
There's middle ground to be reached in the philosophy that SOME life is precious and that death should only be a last resort, but that's not what he believes.
Nameless
Member
"I'm sorry it's come to this"
dude has come a loooooooooong fucking way from
Ending the episode by showing Rick's inability to give less fucks about taking lives was perfect in light of Carol's tough, complex struggle over killing.
More_Badass
Member
I'm not seeing this weakness people are talking about. Did we not all see her shoot one woman in the head with zero hesitation and then burn the other group alive? She's conflicted, sure. Feeling scared of herself and guilty, sure. Which I think is a natural progression for her character.
Her ability to do what others can't or won't, as far back as Season 3 when she tells Andrea to assassinate the Governor in his sleep, has to be disturbing and unsettling when she's able to sit back in relative safety and mull over what she has done.
But she's still as capable as ever.
Her ability to do what others can't or won't, as far back as Season 3 when she tells Andrea to assassinate the Governor in his sleep, has to be disturbing and unsettling when she's able to sit back in relative safety and mull over what she has done.
But she's still as capable as ever.
"I'm sorry it's come to this"
dude has come a loooooooooong fucking way from
Ending the episode by showing Rick's inability to give less fucks about taking lives was perfect in light of Carol's tough, complex struggle over killing.
Which is the entire point of the show. To show Ricks progression as a character. I agree it was an awesome ending, but Carol's sudden switch from cold blooded killer (which took SIX SEASONS TO DEVELOP) to an abrupt "I'm so weak, please don't kill anymore" is awful writing.
It works against her progression.
You legitimately cannot see sudden the weakness in her character? Maybe the scene where she puts her and Maggie's life in danger by allowing a complete stranger to get within arms reach of her while wielding a pistol? Not to mention while Maggie is begging her to eliminate the threat.. all while surrounded by walkers? She could have been bitten for her unwillingness to act, or worse, Maggie been attacked from behind.
It's a shame.
She assassinated two innocent people at the prison, burned their bodies and felt almost NO remorse afterword.
HadesGigas
Member
Most of Carols dialogue was an act though.
And I don't really feel like her internal struggles came out of nowhere. It's basically been the whole point of every interaction she has with Morgan this season. It was a little silly when she messed up killing Paula TWICE though.
And I don't really feel like her internal struggles came out of nowhere. It's basically been the whole point of every interaction she has with Morgan this season. It was a little silly when she messed up killing Paula TWICE though.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Carol was conflicted, but part of it was definitely an act. She did her usual act of appearing weak, had all those Saviors thinking she was a frail "baby bird." I don't think she sincerely starting having doubts until Paula told her that story, and she had to think about how many deaths she was personally responsible. She wanted to imagine that Paula could walk away because she wants to walk away.
More_Badass
Member
It's a shame if you want your characters to be remorseless killing machines. Clearly Carol saw herself in that woman. What she could become. The difference being that Carol still has humanity and still feels remorse when she kills.
And she did feel remorse in Season 4. She even felt the need to tell Tyrese to take that weight off her shoulders.
Nameless
Member
Did it?
She showed a ton of remorse over killing Karen and David and pretty much broke down when confronted by Rick, and again when confessing to Tyrese. Killing Lizzie took a lot out of her, obviously. She showed regret before letting Walkers shred Mama Terminus. Even after slaughtering all those Wolves they made it a point to show her struggling with the destruction she'd just unleashed. And last episode we see her writing a kill list on top of covering for, and defending Morgan's pacifism. I think it's all very logical and consistent with what we've seen from her character.
That's not what I said. I'm saying it doesn't work with what's been established with Carol over the entire course of the show. She's a great character and I've enjoyed her struggles in the past, but this one feels forced and out of place for a character that's a veteran survivor. It's painfully forced.
If they wanted us to care about her relation to this character at ALL she should have been taunting, insulting and threatening her the entire time. It's absolutely bogus that in one quick scene Carol would be emotionally impacted by her, so much so, she'd be willing to sacrifice her ability to survive (and Maggies).
She felt remorse much later, only because of the guilt of Tyreese being directly affected by to her decision to kill and treating her kindly without knowing the truth.
She'd have never said a damn thing if he never brought it up or cared, or if she had been with anyone else. Which is why it made sense for her to feel extreme guilt. I really enjoyed her development during that time.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
This is one of the things that I'm starting to find really odd about the fandom around this show. There are just too many people who seem to want our heroes to be soulless terminators and are disappointed when they started showing any semblance of humanity.
I personally think the remorseless killer angle is a mechanism she adopted in order to survive, same with Rick. And that now that she's in Alexandria for the long-term she's started to drop her suzy homemaker act and discover the person she is in a post-zombie outbreak society.
More_Badass
Member
Was there any moments for Carol in Season 2?
Season 3
- Tells Andrea to kill the Governor while he sleeps
Season 4
- Teaching kids how to use guns and weapons
- Kills Karen and David
- Kills Lizzie
Season 5
- Assaults Terminus
- Works with Rick to prepare a secret coup
- Traumatizes Sam
Season 6
- Kills the Wolves
- Kills the dark-haired woman, burn the other group alive
Season 3
- Tells Andrea to kill the Governor while he sleeps
Season 4
- Teaching kids how to use guns and weapons
- Kills Karen and David
- Kills Lizzie
Season 5
- Assaults Terminus
- Works with Rick to prepare a secret coup
- Traumatizes Sam
Season 6
- Kills the Wolves
- Kills the dark-haired woman, burn the other group alive
UberTag
Member
Pretty much everything from Carol was an act last night with the exception of how she reacted to Paula's back story. Her reactions there were largely genuine as she recognized elements of herself that have long tormented her internally from her captor. She still didn't allow that to derail her escape.
Carol has always been tormented by her actions. Whether it was guilt over Karen/David, shooting Lizzie in the head, warping Sam into killing his family. She has always been capable and she still is; she feels that killing is necessary but hates herself for doing what is necessary.
Carol has always been tormented by her actions. Whether it was guilt over Karen/David, shooting Lizzie in the head, warping Sam into killing his family. She has always been capable and she still is; she feels that killing is necessary but hates herself for doing what is necessary.
Even if I agreed that all this made sense, that doesn't make the episode any better written. Like I said in my post above, it's absurd that their captors would suddenly start sharing their life stories with people who has just slaughtered their people in their sleep. On top of that, the red-haired actress was horrible, and her dialogue even more so. "I stopped counting at double digits, and that's about the time when I stopped feeling remorse" or whatever it was. Ugh. Just such bad writing.
They could've made Carol's breakdown make sense by foreshadowing it, but instead it came out of nowhere. And before anyone says it, yes, she has been conflicted, she has felt remorse about killing, etc. That should've led to something eventually. But this situation, this time, with these characters, and with this dialogue... it felt completely unbelievable, it made no sense, it went against her entire evolution as a character to act like she did in this specific episode, even if she was conflicted and even if she was "due" for a breakdown. It was just so badly handled. If they had toned it down massively, had her hesitate slightly at certain moments, kept building it up, and ended the episode with her breaking down when the tension and adrenaline was gone... that I could've maybe believed.
If it was an act, they sure didn't communicate that on the show, because she was acting exactly the same after the Saviors were all dead.
No, wrong again. See my post above.. you are both missing my point.
It doesn't fit in with her character development. It's not that I want the group to become killing machines, it's that, to some degree, you have to be willing to sacrifice some of your humanity in order to survive. Doesn't mean you have to be a psychotic asshole like the governor.
You mean dark moments? Are you making a point or genuinely asking (not being mean just curious)?
Right, she's hated having to do it but she's ALWAYS done it. Except last night when she apparently abandoned her development and put herself and others at risk for no real reason except to have a close call/moment of drama.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
But the thing is they've been given a chance to be somewhat human again. On the road they never had that chance, but now they do.
There is an enormous gulf of possible character development between "soulless terminator" and "sobbing mess". It's not black and white. They went WAY too far in one direction.
UberTag
Member
For what it's worth, you're correct on this being a new development for her character. I suspect she realizes this herself and will take steps in the next episode or two to address the fact that her actions uncharacteristically put Maggie at risk.
Considering the number of times she's bailed out other characters on the show, I think Carol's earned herself some slack.
YES, this, all of it. This is what I'm trying to say. Perfect summary of my thoughts as well.
My god the writing for the red-haired character was just atrocious. My GF and I looked at each other after she said that like.. oh my god. She made it even worse with her terribly exaggerated delivery.
And really poor directing, if she was actually pretending, because she acted exactly the same after the escape.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
She's in the process of discovering who she is in a post-zombie society of reasonably civilised people (Alexandria). Do people honestly think her being a sobbing mess is the end point of her character development?
She's now had time to settle and come to terms with how she's had to behave in order to survive. After all she's a human, not a robot. She's bound to find some kind of equilibrium eventually (if she's isn't killed before that).
I never said anything about this being the end point of her character development... that was not my argument at all. read my posts again.
More_Badass
Member
Genuine, was thinking about how her character has developed and changed
You're telling me it's taken 6 episodes for her to suddenly start feeling immediate remorse/empathy for total strangers and putting herself and others in the group in the hands of others for no real reason?
I love Carol's humanity, but we're talking about a character who's legitimately saved an entire group of people all on her own two times now. This is just bad, forced and lazy writing.
Theanine3D
Member
Some of us are fine with the bold happening, and welcome it even, but you can't just have it happen out of nowhere.
It feels like there is an episode missing between this one and the one before. Just episodes ago Carol was ready to kill the captured Wolf in Alexandria, even though he was subdued and tied up. Nothing notable had happened to her between that moment and this episode for her to suddenly enter soul-searching mode. And now we're supposed to believe her that she wanted to avoid killing her captors, who openly threatened to kill them several times during the episode? It doesn't make sense to me.
Maybe she went through something big during the recent time skip that we weren't shown.
As for her remorse after Karen, David, and Lizzie, it was completely made irrelevant once she got to Alexandria, where she became a remorseless stone-cold killer once again. It was as if her previous kills hadn't had any lasting impact on her whatsoever. Hell, if anything, she became even more of a brutal killer after those previous kills of hers.
Angry Fork
Member
Awesome episode, I felt bad for the red haired girl and asian girl by the end of the episode despite them being assholes earlier on. Disagree completely with people saying they were written badly. Great actors too imo.
I really hope they're not turning Carol into a punk though, she's my favorite character. I want her to remain the insane badass she was but it seems like they're trying to Morgan her or something. I thought she was doing an act the entire time and planning shit then it turns out she might've been serious about a lot of it.
As long as this is just a temporary setback and they keep her character alive I'm fine with it but I'm wondering if they're gonna kill her off soon or she's going to pull a Morgan and get lots of people killed. There needs to be one character who's just a machine and does whatever is necessary, Carol and Rick have basically become Shane 2.0 for me and why I'm loving them right now as Shane was my favorite character earlier in the show.
I really hope they're not turning Carol into a punk though, she's my favorite character. I want her to remain the insane badass she was but it seems like they're trying to Morgan her or something. I thought she was doing an act the entire time and planning shit then it turns out she might've been serious about a lot of it.
As long as this is just a temporary setback and they keep her character alive I'm fine with it but I'm wondering if they're gonna kill her off soon or she's going to pull a Morgan and get lots of people killed. There needs to be one character who's just a machine and does whatever is necessary, Carol and Rick have basically become Shane 2.0 for me and why I'm loving them right now as Shane was my favorite character earlier in the show.
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