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[KyroLen]

I don't understand how anyone can say that the show is too gore-y. Makes no sense to me, this is The Walking Dead, it's supposed to be gritty and trying and yes at times gore-y.

To jump off the show because of that scene last night, I just don't know anymore. And people want Negen to swear more?

This is why we can't have quality television, because when a show takes a chance and a risk and stays true to the comics people complain. When we don't get a reveal on who died within the first 3 minutes people complain.

I don't understand.

 

[Lorcain]

I like the show because main characters are always getting killed it's why i'm still watching there's always loss. But you would think after all the killing and loss done in ricks group that they would be unmoved by the

Spoiler

death of glenn and abraham

why make the characters cry?

Come on man, they're not sociopaths, they're supposed to be survivors. Also, did you miss the family theme running throughout the episode, complete with the family table, and Neagan saying no more Sunday dinners for them? They're a family. Remember what they all said to each other at the very end of the episode?

I think some people only watch with 10-20% attention focus and are multi-tasking or watching something else at the same time.

 

[Seik]

Rick is the same guy who bit off some dudes throat when he was literally looking death in the eyes

He could've killed negan

Your example was the leader of a small group, with each member taking care of someone in Rick's group at that moment, which permitted an advantage when all the others were mindblown enough that Rick actually did that so that Rick's guys could kill them quickly in the meantime.

Last night episode, they were fucking surrounded by 50+ men. No way out without having a mass-murder conclusion in Rick's group, even if Rick killed Negan, all the others would die one way or another.

 

[CrossTrigger]

How I would have fixed the cliffhanger issue :

- End season 6 with

Spoiler

Abe getting head smashed in with the heroic "suck my nuts" fade to black with the bat noise smooshing over the credits.

This leaves us with a satisfying time to let is all sync in.

- Start the premiere the same way black with the smooshing whacks. Fade in a blurry POV from Rick looking at the ax on the table and Negan taunting him. Continue on with the fetch my ax and flashback scenes - reveal the Glenn death exactly how they did and carry out the rest of the episode as they did, I thought it was really good.

This way we get time to appreciate

Spoiler

Abe's death

in the off season and it isn't cheapened

Spoiler

by Glenn's death

. Also get a shocker with

Spoiler

Glenn also

getting the smashy smash.

 

[Kraftwerk]

wait, people are actually saying Rick could have killed Negan and survived? ayy lmao

 

[Surfinn]

It wouldn't be much more unbelievable than many of the other things that have happened on the show imo.

Just pointing out again im just playing devils advocate.

I understand you're playing devil's advocate, but yes.. yes it would be very different. There's no point in playing that part here because the entire purpose of this episode was that the group is dead to rights with what they've done and totally surrendered. To allow them to escape would be to undo all the tension they built in the finale. They're caught. There's an army at their throat.

It's different. Sometimes it's completely pointless to play devil's advocate.

 

[Audioboxer]

Fuck that was an uncomfortable watch. Well done actors and writers!

Also total open spoilers in here? lol guys cmon.

 

[Exploratory]

entertain (verb) - provide (someone) with amusement or enjoyment.

Hence my point; I don't find brutal violence enjoyable or amusing. And for the record, the excessive gore was not necessary to tell that story. Lingering on Glenn's face, seeing Negan swing over and over, it was all gratuitous, I guess to please people that get off on that stuff.



Zombies gore is cartoon-level stuff. It's obviously fake. Humans being brutal to each other is entirely different psychologically.

Do you find a film based off slavery showing the brutal subjugation of black people entertaining? What about a series based around studying the brutal murders committed by serial killers? A film about the KKK and extreme racism? A show about a woman being psychologically tortured and raped and how she comes back from that?

Film and television don't always have to be about amusing you.

 

[SneakersSO]

I don't understand how anyone can say that the show is too gore-y. Makes no sense to me, this is The Walking Dead, it's supposed to be gritty and trying and yes at times gore-y.

To jump off the show because of that scene last night, I just don't know anymore. And people want Negen to swear more?

This is why we can't have quality television, because when a show takes a chance and a risk and stays true to the comics people complain. When we don't get a reveal on who died within the first 3 minutes people complain.

I don't understand.

The show didn't stay true to the comics though. Oh, cause they did the gory Glenn death it somehow makes up for what they pulled at the end of last season? How they continue to choose ads over good storytelling.

Heck, garnering ads is probably why they refuse to swear more on the show but still film Negan doing 'uncensored' takes of dialogue anyway, despite the fact they know they won't ever air it on television.

 

[Tomeru]

I don't find brutal violence enjoyable or amusing. And for the record, the excessive gore was not necessary to tell that story. Lingering on Glenn's face, seeing Negan swing over and over, it was all gratuitous, I guess to please people that get off on that stuff.

Because its not the act itself that entertains. Its what the act means in the context of the show. You are adressing the gore as a seperate part of the episode. Ofcourse it was repulsive. It was meant to shock. It was meant to paint character in different ways.

The show can do everything without violence. It couldve been a soap opera. But then it wouldnt be TWD.

Hence MY point - you lack perspective. But thats fine. I'm sure I'm guilty of that too with some things.

 

[Gaz_RB]

Do you find a film based off slavery showing the brutal subjugation of black people entertaining? What about a series based around studying the brutal murders committed by serial killers? A film about the KKK and extreme racism? A show about a woman being psychologically tortured and raped and how she comes back from that?

Film and television don't always have to be about amusing you.

But what about the children???

 

[Bigfoot]

I don't understand how anyone can say that the show is too gore-y. Makes no sense to me, this is The Walking Dead, it's supposed to be gritty and trying and yes at times gore-y.

To jump off the show because of that scene last night, I just don't know anymore. And people want Negen to swear more?

This is why we can't have quality television, because when a show takes a chance and a risk and stays true to the comics people complain. When we don't get a reveal on who died within the first 3 minutes people complain.

I don't understand.

I've just come to the conclusion that people will complain about anything. If they had killed Abe and Glenn off at the end of last season, people would have complained that the season ended on a bad note or something. Popular shows just can't win. Look at GoT as an example... when it got big after a couple of seasons the show threads ended up looking like this thread, and GoT wins Emmy's.

I'm mostly curious in seeing the Walking Dead ratings after a few episodes to see if all the complaining is just noise of a small minority, or if people will really stop tuning in to the show each week.

 

[jfkgoblue]

So Rick and Carl are the only season 1 people alive after this last episode? They have that plot armor though.


EDIT: Oops forgot about Carol, but I'm gonna guess she dies this season

 

[Chumley]

The Verge quitting the show. Can't say I blame em.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/10/24/...-7-premiere-recap-review-end-of-quitters-club

I hope this person doesn't consider themselves a critic. This is an irrational emotional outburst blog entry without much actual critical thinking, probably for the best they don't "review" the show anymore if they can't step back and look at it with some perspective.

 

[Audioboxer]

Wait, people have watched seasons of zombies being decapitated and eating people alive and all of a sudden, "NOPE, can't do it!". I mean I just said above it was an uncomfortable watch but how it's taken anyone 7 seasons to notice gore.... lol.

 

[hateradio]

I'm a bit on the side that thinks that these deaths were too gory. However, I'm glad that some of these characters are gone. I wonder if there will be a few more taken away through the season.

 

[bidguy]

So Rick and Carl are the only season 1 people alive after this last episode? They have that plot armor though.


EDIT: Oops forgot about Carol, but I'm gonna guess she dies this season

daryl ?

 

[jfkgoblue]

Wait, people have watched seasons of zombies being decapitated and eating people alive and all of a sudden, "NOPE, can't do it!". I mean I just said above it was an uncomfortable watch but how it's taken anyone 7 seasons to notice gore.... lol.

I think everyone is just bitter that Glenn is finally dead for good.

 

[More_Badass]

daryl ?

And Morgan

Rick, Morgan, Carl, Carol, and Daryl

 

[Audioboxer]

Spoiler

I think everyone is just bitter that Glenn is finally dead for good.

I still think that should be spoilered.

However people need to get a grip, the comics

Spoiler

confirmed that being 99.9% the case ages ago. His fake death was just a bait and switch for the finale

.

I'm a bit on the side that thinks that these deaths were too gory. However, I'm glad that some of these characters are gone. I wonder if there will be a few more taken away through the season.

That's how Negan does it. For the sake of the kids they could have cut away, but you'd still have the same end reality given Negan uses a baseball bat.

 

[jfkgoblue]

daryl ?

And Morgan

Rick, Morgan, Carl, Carol, and Daryl

Yeah... I'm dumb, disregard my previous post

I still think that should be spoilered.

However people need to get a grip, the comics

Spoiler

confirmed that being 99.9% the case ages ago. His fake death was just a bait and switch for the finale

.

Aired content shouldn't be tagged, otherwise we would all be talking with tags

 

[Chumley]

Wait, people have watched seasons of zombies being decapitated and eating people alive and all of a sudden, "NOPE, can't do it!". I mean I just said above it was an uncomfortable watch but how it's taken anyone 7 seasons to notice gore.... lol.

Let's not forget Rick and co murdering people in their sleep. These people saying they're "done with it" now are fickle as hell. The show is a brutal survival story and has been ever since the first season. Sure, the Glenn fake out last season was a little bit of fuckery but it's hardly anything in the grand scheme of things. Declaring the entire show manipulative is way too extreme.

 

[Cheshire_Buddha]

There are people complaining about gratuitous violence in a show where people get knocked in the back of their head by a bat before getting their throats slit, a guy gets his legs eaten by a group of cannibals, an old man gets decapitated, a mother and son are devoured by zombies, and a guy bites the throat out of another guy.

What were some people thinking was going to happen? Negan gathering everyone around a fire for a round of Kumbayah and s'mores?

 

[Surfinn]

Why not? An axe isn't exactly heavy or anything. Rick was able to hold onto a walker for 20 or 30 seconds with his bare hands (i.e. holding all of his body weight with just his arms), why wouldn't he be able to throw an axe?

There's a vast difference between literally being capable of throwing an ax and killing someone with it. People just envision Rick as some action hero who can hit the center of a target with any given weapon. I don't get it..

 

[darkstar0155]

I understand you're playing devil's advocate, but yes.. yes it would be very different. There's no point in playing that part here because the entire purpose of this episode was that the group is dead to rights with what they've done and totally surrendered. To allow them to escape would be to undo all the tension they built in the finale. They're caught. There's an army at their throat.

It's different. Sometimes it's completely pointless to play devil's advocate.

Yes that is for sure the purpose of the episode, but that's just because that is what they (the creators) wanted it to be. That's different from saying there is a believable (within the shows context) different outcome that could have happened (even if extremely unlikely) if Rick killed Negan in the RV when they were alone. And that its possible in this alternate storyline that numerous of them could still have made it out alive. I agree that it would have kept the show pigeonholed into the same story loop, and forced them to end their cash cow show earlier than they would need to with this new storyline though.

 

[Audioboxer]

Yeah... I'm dumb, disregard my previous post

Aired content shouldn't be tagged, otherwise we would all be talking with tags

I suppose that makes sense!

Let's not forget Rick and co murdering people in their sleep. These people saying they're "done with it" now are fickle as hell. The show is a brutal survival story and has been ever since the first season. Sure, the Glenn fake out last season was a little bit of fuckery but it's hardly anything in the grand scheme of things. Declaring the entire show manipulative is way too extreme.

I have no issues with people bailing if they want. There isn't much need to have an online trantrum about it though. That makes you seem like a hypocrite given you've watched 6 full seasons of non-stop gore, and yes, even Rick tearing someones throat out. It comes across as having no respect for the content material given Negan is an already written character, and seemingly you being salty a character died you like.

I mean what the fuck everyone, did we all forget how Hershel Greene died? Or do you not get upset about an old man dying, looking at you The Verge.

Okay maybe I need to stop with the steam, but I thought that was a powerful and well written episode, and it seems like they're going to do well by honouring Negan's character.

 

[More_Badass]

What exactly makes the gore gratuitous? If it's making you feel disgusted and unsettled, then I'd argue it's effective

Is it lingering shots? Was that infamous scene in Twelve Years A Slave gratuitous for lingering for as long as it did, or other unsettling scenes from film and movies that hold on certain images?

 

[eyeball_kid]

Do you find a film based off slavery showing the brutal subjugation of black people entertaining? What about a series based around studying the brutal murders committed by serial killers? A film about the KKK and extreme racism? A show about a woman being psychologically tortured and raped and how she comes back from that?

Film and television don't always have to be about amusing you.

They aren't telling that kind of story with Negan. He's just a guy who's one or two steps farther towards depravity than Rick's group. As I said before, there's no more story to tell. Rick and the group have about finished their descent into amorality. You can't come back from executing people for a trade deal. Morgan knew that.

If I was running the show, I would've had a two-hour finale last season. Rick ends up with the axe in his hand, staring at his boy's arm. Carol starts shooting from the edge of the woods, Rick takes his chance and kills Negan. Everything goes into chaos. Cut to an end scene with the dead and half-dead, some people crawling like walkers. Then cut to black. Series end. Because Rick's group has already finished their psychological journey. There is nothing left for that group except death. To extend the story is just circling the drain.

 

[FloatingDivider]

I was incredibly bothered by this episode in all sorts of ways. I kind of mentally tuned out post Glenn head smash because it seemed utterly ludicrous people would follow Negan. Who would follow a clear sociopath that revels in destroying a man's skull for no other reason than to make some sort of utterly confused sociopathic point?

Not only that but he legitimately has his entire crew stand there for hours watching this slow and absolutely insanely depraved torture. What kind of people stand there watching that?

Even if his entire crew is following him because he employs these types of intimidation tactics on a regular basis that would simply mean his entire crew is filled with people who hate him? I just refuse to believe his "domination" strategy would be successful. I mean I'm essentially imagining his entire crew actually wants Negan to die far more than they'd want Rick&Co to die because it seems evident that this guy stirs up grudges every-fucking-where he goes?

Basically how the fuck is Negan not dead yet because he must have done this to 100's of people and I imagine all of those survivors hold grudges?

 

[Smokey_Run]

I think the gore is just the straw that broke the camel's back and the real root of the problem has been the horrible writing that has plagued the show for years. The Verge article kinda gets at it when they say the seasons aren't propelled by an actual interesting story anymore but hype moments like a character reveal. I tend to agree, outside of the premieres and finales, usually nothing essential happens in between.

 

[_Nemo]

wait, people are actually saying Rick could have killed Negan and survived? ayy lmao

I know right? Fucking baffling, like, come on lol.

 

[More_Badass]

They aren't telling that kind of story with Negan. He's just a guy who's one or two steps farther towards depravity than Rick's group. As I said before, there's no more story to tell. Rick and the group have about finished their descent into amorality. You can't come back from executing people for a trade deal. Morgan knew that.

If I was running the show, I would've had a two-hour finale last season. Rick ends up with the axe in his hand, staring at his boy's arm. Carol starts shooting from the edge of the woods, Rick takes his chance and kills Negan. Everything goes into chaos. Cut to an end scene with the dead and half-dead, some people crawling like walkers. Then cut to black. Series end. Because Rick's group has already finished their psychological journey. There is nothing left for that group except death. To extend the story is just circling the drain.

I think that sounds jaded and cynical than any legimate outlook IMO.

 

[Audioboxer]

I was incredibly bothered by this episode in all sorts of ways. I kind of mentally tuned out post Glenn head smash because it seemed utterly ludicrous people would follow Negan. Who would follow a clear sociopath that revels in destroying a man's skull for no other reason than to make some sort of utterly confused sociopathic point?

Not only that but he legitimately has his entire crew stand there for hours watching this slow and absolutely insanely depraved torture. What kind of people stand there watching that?

Even if his entire crew is following him because he employs these types of intimidation tactics on a regular basis that would simply mean his entire crew is filled with people who hate him? I just refuse to believe his "domination" strategy would be successful. I mean I'm essentially imagining his entire crew actually wants Negan to die far more than they'd want Rick&Co to die because it seems evident that this guy stirs up grudges every-fucking-where he goes?

Basically how the fuck is Negan not dead yet because he must have done this to 100's of people and I imagine all of those survivors hold grudges?

I mean if you want to potentially spoil things you can either read up on Negan - http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Negan_(Comic_Series)

Or read the comics.

The TV show does do a lot of its own things, as well as has unique characters, but it also borrows heavily from the comics.

Also might I add my conservative Catholic father and Christian mother are both huge TWD fans and have already told me they loved the 1st episode (although yes they said it was gruesome, and my mum is sad about Glenn). So yeah, please don't let them come out ahead of apparent TWD fans who are "disgusted and now quitting" lol.

 

[Realeza]

I think the gore is just the straw that broke the camel's back and the real root of the problem has been the horrible writing that has plagued the show for years. The Verge article kinda gets at it when they say the seasons aren't propelled by an actual interesting story anymore but hype moments like a character reveal. I tend to agree, outside of the premieres and finales, usually nothing essential happens in between.

But that's the nature of the show. It's been established from the beginning, that they are all fucked. There's no cure for this zombie apocalypse, and something awful happening will always be the biggest event in the story.

Is not like the show had a major story in the early seasons and suddenly it turned into a gory fest; it's been like that forever.

 

[Kraftwerk]

Why is everyone all of a sudden criticising the gore? The show has been gory forever. I dont remember the last time I read so many articles and posts commenting on how they are out of ideas and due to the bad writing they are filling it with gore...I mean...the gore last night, specifically the second death was almost shot for short like the comic.

Find this criticism odd.

 

[Chumley]

I suppose that makes sense!



I have no issues with people bailing if they want. There isn't much need to have an online trantrum about it though. That makes you seem like a hypocrite given you've watched 6 full seasons of non-stop gore, and yes, even Rick tearing someones throat out. It comes across as having no respect for the content material given Negan is an already written character, and seemingly you being salty a character died you like.

I mean what the fuck everyone, did we all forget how Hershel Greene died? Or do you not get upset about an old man dying, looking at you The Verge.

Okay maybe I need to stop with the steam, but I thought that was a powerful and well written episode, and it seems like they're going to do well by honouring Negan's character.

The polarizing reaction proves this was a powerful hour of television. If you get some people saying they're DEFINITELY quitting forever and some people saying it was one of the best hours of TV they've ever seen, you've succeeded. They went all out and I commend them for it.

 

[OrionX]

It was fucked up. It was brutal. It was repulsive. It was supposed to feel that way. I can see why it might be too much for some people, but the show I've watched has always been about pain and suffering, with bits of hope sprinkled in occasionally. They build the group up, then they tear them down, often in gruesome, horrific ways. Rinse and repeat.

I didn't like the lingering shot of Glenn's face, but it was the character's last moments. His attempts to talk to Maggie were heartbreaking and gut-wrenching. I wanted to look away, but I couldn't. Maggie didn't get to look away, so why should we be spared the cruelty of that moment? For me, it made it feel more real, even though it was completely terrible and I would never want to see it again.

 

[Koozek]

Damn, this episode destroyed me. I was literally shaking and jumping at parts, especially because I was afraid they'd kill off

Spoiler

Daryl too when he jumped up

. Can't wait for the sweet, sweet revenge. Hopefully still in this season, though I doubt it.

Waiting a year again until the whole season comes to Netflix Germany will be harder than ever

 

[Nameless]

I'm not about to tell anyone where their personal line should be, but similar to Game of Thrones you'd think people would have a pretty good idea by now of what kind of world this show depicts and how far a story with constantly rising stakes could go.

That said it was pretty fucking brutal. You'd be hard pressed to find R rated films that show bludgeonings that graphic. Usually they're filmed front the back and/or aim the camera away the victim...not here. You see every sickening thud & thwack. Fictional violence usually doesn't phase me at all, but even I was a bit taken aback by Glenn stammering & convulsing, his eye bulging under the pressure of his [horrifically] caved in skull.

From a storytelling perspective they kind of needed to distinguish Negan from the countless other Monsters the group has encountered over the years and they did that.

 

[Smokey_Run]

But that's the nature of the show. It's been established from the beginning, that they are all fucked. There's no cure for this zombie apocalypse, and something awful happening will always be the biggest event in the story.

Is not like the show had a major story in the early seasons and suddenly it turned into a gory fest; it's been like that forever.

You can write compelling stories in this setting. Come on now.

 

[More_Badass]

You can write compelling stories in this setting. Come on now.

They haven't been writing compelling stories in this setting?

 

[Daffy Duck]

Fuck me.

Negan was brutal, that was intense.

 

[Audioboxer]

The polarizing reaction proves this was a powerful hour of television. If you get some people saying they're DEFINITELY quitting forever and some people saying it was one of the best hours of TV they've ever seen, you've succeeded. They went all out and I commend them for it.

For sure. Jeffrey Dean Morgan is fucking outstanding.

Also at least 50% of those "quitting forever" will put episode 2 on. Trust me. 7 seasons of commitment and now gore is what makes them flee? Nah. It's just reactions "within 24 hours". Give it a few days and some of the hyperbole will calm down.

 

[Lothar]

I can't believe anyone finds brutality and extreme violence to be "entertainment", but hey, this is a country where we can't hear "fuck" on TV but a guy smashing in a person's head with a baseball bat is totally fine.

Why do people like horror movies? Why do people like haunted houses? People find it entertaining to be terrified, that's crazy.

The feeling you get when a character you like is about to have his face messed up with a bat or be told to cut his son's arm off is terror and dread, and yes, that's entertaining, in large part because you know it's not real. It's just playing with your emotions for pretend.

If this is not making sense to you, then I can't see what you ever got out of Walking Dead to begin with. A show about zombies is a show that is promising you misery. It's promising to be gross and disturbing.

 

[eyeball_kid]

I think that sounds jaded and cynical than any legimate outlook IMO.

You really think Rick and the gang are good people still? Not sure what you're calling me cynical for.


I guess the brutality of this episode bothered me so much because it felt empty. I was thinking about that scene where Daryl's brother Merle went off and tried to kill the Governor, and ended up getting brutally murdered by him. That was horrible to watch, but it was backed by good writing. It felt necessary. Merle had betrayed the Governor, but he did so for his brother and for the group. And then Daryl finds him, but it's too late. It was heartbreaking. All that was wrapped up in the relationship of the brothers, and choosing allegiances, and choosing a right path.

Seeing Glenn get killed like that was terrible because he's been there for seven seasons, and seeing the devastation of Maggie. But the whole thing felt hollow because Rick's group were already cold-blooded murderers. So now we have one group of killers against another group. That's not an interesting story to me, and making it ultra violent doesn't change that.

 

[barit]

Holy shit. That was the most brutal shit I've ever watched on a TV show. Not so much the gore but the tension was just unbearable. God damn if Negaan doesn't go in as the most violent villain of all time. He lets even Ramsay Bolton looks moderate lmao

 

[ClosingADoor]

Damn, that just went on and on and on. If this is the tone next episode also I'm out. I can take some pretty violent stuff, but this was just dragging on for the sake of shock value instead of adding anything.

 

[Realeza]

Based on all the responses this episode is getting, no doubt that the writers fulfilled their goal a 101%.

I have seen the panel of the comic version of this moment, so I had an idea of what to expect. But watching it, it make me fucking ill. It was one of the most tense scenes I've ever seen, and it puts you in the shoes of the characters like no other way could have.

Blame AMC all you want, but damn if this wasn't one effective episode.

 

[Audioboxer]

You really think Rick and the gang are good people still? Not sure what you're calling me cynical for.


I guess the brutality of this episode bothered me so much because it felt empty. I was thinking about that scene where Daryl's brother Merle went off and tried to kill the Governor, and ended up getting brutally murdered by him. That was horrible to watch, but it was backed by good writing. It felt necessary. Merle had betrayed the Governor, but he did so for his brother and for the group. And then Daryl finds him, but it's too late. It was heartbreaking. All that was wrapped up in the relationship of the brothers, and choosing allegiances, and choosing a right path.

Seeing Glenn get killed like that was terrible because he's been there for seven seasons, and seeing the devastation of Maggie. But the whole thing felt hollow because Rick's group were already cold-blooded murderers. So now we have one group of killers against another group. That's not an interesting story to me, and making it ultra violent doesn't change that.

No one survives in TWD if they aren't a killer. If you've watched the same show as the rest of us it has taken episodes, nevermind seasons, to show the only way your survive is by killing. Did you not pay attention to the Alexandria arc? They've literally been beating it into the viewers for seasons as Rick and gang have changed that no one survives unless they do change as well.

Rick is pretty much meant to be an anti-hero, as is everyone else "good". Good in the moral sense does not exist in TWD world for long.

It worked for me because it was the introduction for what it might be the last villain of the show. In one episode you were more scared of Negan than Shane and The Governor put together.

This.

 

[Realeza]

Damn, that just went on and on and on. If this is the tone next episode also I'm out. I can take some pretty violent stuff, but this was just dragging on for the sake of shock value instead of adding anything.

It worked for me because it was the introduction for what it might be the last villain of the show. In one episode you were more scared of Negan than Shane and The Governor put together.