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[dustyherb]

Comic spoils ahead

Pretty sure

Spoiler

Morgan is next to go
He is already dead by this point in the comics and Negan lives after the war deciding to imprisson him instead to show they have some humanity still left. Literally nothing is going to stop Rick from killing Negan unless Morgan's words ring through "All life is precious" after he is dead they will likely keep Negan alive due to this one and only reason and imprison him in the cell Morgan made in Season 6

Major comic spoilers:

Spoiler

If I had to guess I would say Morgan is going to get comic Nicholas' death. That way Morgan would end up saving Rick just like Eastman saved Morgan. Plus he would then be the last death of the war. Him and Rick could have one last conversation and that would be what convinces Rick to spare Negan. Since Rick ended up sparing Negan after Nicholas' death. If Morgan does take that death then I wouldn't expect him to die this season.

 

[Audioboxer]

Was just giving speculation of who I think logically in the main cast who would die which I quoted someone thinking the same not a comic spoiler

Spoiler

Morgan dies before Negan even shows up in the comics. IT just feels this is the only logical answer since he is still alive.

Ah okay. I didn't read your spoiler and i just assumed that was what the comic book spoiled (the part you didn't blank). If that was just your speculation that is cool.

 

[jm89]

While Maggie needs some time and to grieve I'm hoping season 7 turns into the ladies going Rick levels of fucking crazy. Ricks probably going to continue to be a mess. Carols tried to go back to being normal. Time for her to carry on being the "killer mum" again.

Girl-fucking-power. Or should I say Girl-slaying.

I hope so considering most of the men left(other than rick and daryl) are useless. Don't have any hope for morgan dude is just asking to be killed off, and carl is going to end up being another shane.

 

[perineumlick]

My wife was distraught after this episode. Like, crying uncontrollably. We both liked Abraham, but we kind of sighed in relief, as it seemed that Glenn would be safe (We both knew of the comic scene). Then boom....that shit was devastating. Just a riveting hour of television, gut wrenching and brutal. Not just the violence, but the emotional impact, manipulated or not; people will remember where they were and with who when they saw this episode.

On another note, the saddest part to me had to be the shot of Rick getting into the RV after watching the zombie come out of the woods, then watching in the side view mirror as the zombie kneels to make a meal out of either Glenn or Abraham's brains as he drives off. Damn that hit me hard, like insult to injury. Just underscored how cold and dangerous their world is now, if you didn't know by now.

 

[MulderYuffie]

Major comic spoilers:

Spoiler

If I had to guess I would say Morgan is going to get comic Nicholas' death. That way Morgan would end up saving Rick just like Eastman saved Morgan. Plus he would then be the last death of the war. Him and Rick could have one last conversation and that would be what convinces Rick to spare Negan. Since Rick ended up sparing Negan after Nicholas' death. If Morgan does take that death then I wouldn't expect him to die this season.

I can see that totally yeah and

Spoiler

yeah earliest I see that happening is mid season finale Season 8.

 

[Audioboxer]

I hope so considering most of the men left(other than rick and daryl) are useless. Don't have any hope for morgan dude is just asking to be killed off, and carl is going to end up being another shane.

Ricks either going back to emo-broken Rick, or he's going to crazy town again. But yeah I hope the ladies take over and go on a killing spree to get to Negan.

Also I just remembered, did everyone also forget the cold-blooded mass killing of the complex last season? Knifing people in the head whilst they slept? lol. TWD has been going out all violence and gore for ages. It's suppose to ooze despair and death.

 

[BluenoseGames]

Holy shit, I think that's the most intense episode of a TV show I have ever watched.

I'm so shook that I'm watching the after show for the first time.

 

[OrionX]

Ricks either going back to emo-broken Rick, or he's going to crazy town again. But yeah I hope the ladies take over and go on a killing spree to get to Negan.

Maggie + Sasha + Rosita revenge squad let's do this. Michonne and Carol can back them up.

 

[Audioboxer]

Maggie + Sasha + Rosita revenge squad let's do this. Michonne and Carol can back them up.

I want my lady Carol upfront as well! As long as she's in cold hearted killer mode, Carol is top stuff. I mean I feel bad for her, but broken Carol is best Carol. She's a smart tactical attacker.

 

[eyeball_kid]

Sorry, cynical wasn't the meaning I was thinking of

But I think they are. They've had to do and experience horrific things to survive, but they still have their humanity.

I think they are good to each other in their group family. Just like many people in Negan's army are good to each other. Remember when Maggie and Carol got kidnapped? That's what flipped Carol out, that she was forced to kill these people that were basically the same as her, just trying to survive. She could feel her humanity draining away. She tried to protect Maggie from that.

Being good to your family doesn't mean you're a good person if you're doing brutal stuff to everyone outside of that circle. The only good person left is Morgan. He knew what brutality and amorality brings – it just brings brutality and amorality back upon you. No one at Alexandria except Morgan spoke out against executing Negan's men. They're all complicit in that evil.

First there was Dale, then Hershel, and now there's Morgan. The prophets foretelling catastrophe if one takes the dark path. The ones speaking out against darker impulses of human nature. But they've mostly been ignored. Now finally, Rick's group crossed the line you can't return from, and the karmic retribution has been swift and brutal for them.

 

[Killing_Joke]

It's funny sooo many people bitched about the prison war not being bloody enough, now it's too much? Fuck out of there. The episode was one of the most uncomfortable scenes ever on TV. And it was awesome. Andrew Lincoln nailed a grand slam like usual. When he cried at Maggie to carry Glenn because they were family was fucking heart wrenching.

My complaint is i loved Abe. I hate they sacrificed him for a cheap trick. Loved his character compared to Glenn who hasn't done anything really note worthy forever. When they showed the tribute video all i thought about was "wow this dude hasn't had an interesting story since season 3". Perfect time to cut him off and stay loyal to comics. But the constant hard on fucking with the audience is annoying. I DO love Abe went out like a complete boss though.

Easily the best premier. Don't understand the complaints at all.

 

[Surfinn]

Ricks either going back to emo-broken Rick, or he's going to crazy town again. But yeah I hope the ladies take over and go on a killing spree to get to Negan.

Also I just remembered, did everyone also forget the cold-blooded mass killing of the complex last season? Knifing people in the head whilst they slept? lol. TWD has been going out all violence and gore for ages. It's suppose to ooze despair and death.

I'd like to see a return to humble Rick. We've had like 3 or 4 seasons of "I will destroy everything to get my way" Rick, but now he's realized that you can't just assume you're always the top dog. I'd like to see a more emotionally grounded and caring Rick -- one whose constantly thinking about other people and their well-being. A Rick that doesn't shoot first and think later.. who is constantly reminded of how precious the lives are around him. Glenn would have wanted that. But.. at the same time, devising a strategy to take out Negan and his army, this time, in self defense over a long period of time.

I think, for the first time, it's very clear that Morgan was at least right in his point that violence/killing is not always the answer. Pretty chilling to think about that in retrospect.

 

[OrionX]

I want my lady Carol upfront as well! As long as she's in cold hearted killer mode, Carol is top stuff. I mean I feel bad for her, but broken Carol is best Carol.

Oh I wasn't suggesting she was inferior. Carol on her A game can take on ten Negan's. lol

 

[Audioboxer]

I'd like to see a return to humble Rick. We've had like 3 or 4 seasons of "I will destroy everything to get my way" Rick, but now he's realized that you can't just assume you're always the top dog. I'd like to see a more emotionally grounded and caring Rick -- one whose constantly thinking about other people and their well-being. A Rick that doesn't shoot first and think later.

I think, for the first time, it's very clear that Morgan was at least right in his point that violence/killing is not always the answer. Pretty chilling to think about that in retrospect.

It's not always the answer initially, but it always ends up becoming the answer you're funneled down to if you don't choose it at the outset. That's really what TWD has been about showing for the last few seasons. Even when everyone has tried, humanity is just long past ever being manageable again. With no law, no hierarchy, no control, it's just chaos. There is no good ending now, just survival.

Oh I wasn't suggesting she was inferior. Carol on her A game can take on ten Negan's. lol

Damn right!

 

[Surfinn]

It's not always the answer initially, but it always ends up becoming the answer you're funneled down to if you don't choose it at the outset. That's really what TWD has been about showing for the last few seasons. Even when everyone has tried humanity is just long past ever being manageable again. There is no good ending now, just survival.



Damn right!

Right, but I think appreciate the lives around you (ie thinking about your strategy with a balance of Rick/Morgan) when deciding how to best proceed is a valuable lesson learned from this encounter. That doesn't mean you can't still be ruthless and calculated when you need to be, but being humble really makes you a better leader in that you don't make this mistake all over again.

Basically sometimes you need to be knocked on your ass to learn how to be a better leader. Luckily Rick gets a second chance.

 

[Audioboxer]

Right, but I think appreciate the lives around you (ie thinking about your strategy with a balance of Rick/Morgan) when deciding how to best proceed is a valuable lesson learned from this encounter. That doesn't mean you can't still be ruthless and calculated, but being humble really makes you a better leader in that you don't make this mistake all over again.

True, and Rick gets things wrong a lot. However even Morgan has had to realize and I think it was the point of his arch, that you just cannot tame insanity and stop the killing. If you keep trying then YOU end up dead.

 

[Surfinn]

True, and Rick gets things wrong a lot. However even Morgan has had to realize and I think it was the point of his arch, that you just cannot tame insanity and stop the killing. If you keep trying then YOU end up dead.

Right but he was right in the sense that had Rick listened to Morgan before they started blindly murdering people they didn't know, Glenn and Abraham would still be alive. They wouldn't have been caught with their pants down out in the middle of the woods.

All life is clearly NOT precious, but sometimes it pays to think about alternate approaches when surviving. You can't just brute force kill everyone at any given moment. Rick learned this the hard way. Being ruthless (ie let's just go kill them all) doesn't always make you stronger.

 

[LordKasual]

We're 7 seasons into a zombie show where a viable survival tactic is to cover yourself in entrails and this episode is where people draw the line of violence?

Tee hee

 

[Surfinn]

We're 7 seasons into a zombie show where a viable survival tactic is to cover yourself in entrails and this episode is where people draw the line of violence?

Tee hee

It's not about the gore itself, it's about the way the gore was used. There's a vast difference between covering yourself in zombie guts and Glenn's eyeball popped out while he's trying to talk to Maggie for the last time.

 

[Audioboxer]

Right but he was right in the sense that had Rick listened to Morgan before they started blindly murdering people they didn't know, Glenn and Abraham would still be alive. They wouldn't have been caught with their pants down out in the middle of the woods.

All life is clearly NOT precious, but sometimes it pays to think about alternate approaches when surviving. You can't just brute force kill everyone at any given moment. Rick learned this the hard way. Being ruthless doesn't always make you stronger.

True again. However let us face it, Negan and his Army would have got them eventually. People were going to die.

 

[dcdobson]

Ricks group have led a relatively charmed life until now...

Dude, what?

 

[Spooky Scary Skeleton]

There's a vast difference between covering yourself in zombie guts and Glenn's eyeball popped out while he's trying to talk to Maggie for the last time.

As opposed to people's skin getting torn apart and their chests ripped open by zombies in many scenes of TWD that viewers are used to? I don't understand the logic where you draw the line.

 

[Surfinn]

True again. However let us face it, Negan and his Army would have got them eventually. People were going to die.

Right, but these were senseless deaths that could have been easily prevented had Rick listened to Morgan's plea to find another way.

As opposed to people's skin getting torn apart and their chests ripped open by zombies in many scenes of TWD that viewers are used to? I don't understand the logic where you draw the lines.

Again, this was a different type of situation because of the emotional intensity between two characters we've (most of us) grown to love over the course of 5 seasons. We've seen them grown and love each other as husband and wife. It's about the mixture of emotion and gore. It's something far more intense than we've seen in anything that's come before it.

For the record, I'm not denouncing it, just stating the obvious difference.

 

[Dunedain_Ranger]

I'm loving the reaction videos !! I sold out and made one also hahahaha

 

[Daffy Duck]

Dude, what?

Relative to what they just encountered it has been.

 

[Sadist]

Well... fuck fuck fuckidty fuck fuck fuck

JD Morgan killed it as Negan. Damn. His mannerisms are fantastic and I really enjoyed how he totally destroys Rick in only a matter of hours. His "Go get my axe Rick" moment wasmsimply amazing. Kudos for the WD casting crew on this one. Perfect.

Abe's death was pretty much well known. Kirkman always said he hated Abe's death (the random arrow through his skull was given to Denise instead) and I did as well. Normally it's okay for WD characters having shitty deaths, but Abe always deserved more. Him getting his skull bashed in by Lucille is great. However expecting two deaths was a shock. Yeah okay I read books, but man, seeing that particular scene in reallife is mindblowing. I remember being all cringed when Negan started bashing Glen's skull in the book, (but in a way you appreciate it) and seeing this on tv is great. Thanks for having balls you guys.

 

[bidguy]

Right, but these were senseless deaths that could have been easily prevented had Rick listened to Morgan's plea to find another way.

what other way though ? i mean daryl abe and sasha had no problems with negans men but they still acted extremely hostile. even if rick and his people tried to negotiate a deal i believe negan or his people would have killed someone regardless. simon seemed reasonable enough so maybe it would have worked out ? hard to say really

 

[Audioboxer]

Right, but these were senseless deaths that could have been easily prevented had Rick listened to Morgan's plea to find another way.



Again, this was a different type of situation because of the emotional intensity between two characters we've (most of us) grown to love over the course of 5 seasons. We've seen them grown and love each other as husband and wife. It's about the mixture of emotion and gore. It's something far more intense than we've seen in anything that's come before it.

For the record, I'm not denouncing it, just stating the obvious difference.

Senseless deaths?

Me with TWD for the past season

Give me despair and lots of it. I'm past the point of dreaming of a happy ending. More death! Misery! Loss! Despair!

 

[Latvian Hitman]

We're 7 seasons into a zombie show where a viable survival tactic is to cover yourself in entrails and this episode is where people draw the line of violence?

Tee hee

It's funny- because many fans of the comic were ready to quit the show due to the silly cliffhanger this spring. We felt they had dodged the shock and emotional impact that the scene was meant to deliver. Meanwhile, many of the TV-only fans were defending the decision because "TV".

Fast forward to last night, where the shock and emotional impact were delivered in spades, and now most of the comic fans are really happy, and a bunch of the TV-only fans are threatening to quit the show.

I'm guilty of gross over-generalization of the two groups here, of course. But what makes this entertaining to me is that the TV-only crowd is getting to experience exactly what comic fans went through when issue 100 came out.

Barely halfway through the premiere and I'm not sure if I can keep watching TWD.

Well, shit. Don't leave now if you've been on board this long. You'll miss some of the best stuff the story has to offer. Negan's not going to be bashing in two skulls per episode going forward. This is kind of a one-time thing.

 

[RPS37]

Barely halfway through the premiere and I'm not sure if I can keep watching TWD.

 

[goishen]

I do have a feeling that some DVR's are gonna be used a whole lot more when watching this show, from here on out.

Holy hell, that was brutal.

 

[Fenderputty]

So I blasted through 6 seasons and caught up for last night. I'll say that I enjoyed the finale and the premier of 6 and 7 respectively, but that shit was drawn out way too much. At least 5 minutes of the 39 minute run time premier was nothing but flash backs of the finale. That might be a conservative estimate. This was even more obvious watching on a compact schedule.

 

[Von Krukru]

Fuck Negan. Never hated an badguy so much! A lot of charisma tho, first time I see this actor. What are his most noticable previous roles?

 

[Audioboxer]

Fuck Negan. Never hated an badguy so much! A lot of charisma tho, first time I see this actor. What are his most noticable previous roles?

John Winchester!!!

 

[Surfinn]

True again. However let us face it, Negan and his Army would have got them eventually. People were going to die.

what other way though ? i mean daryl abe and sasha had no problems with negans men but they still acted extremely hostile. even if rick and his people tried to negotiate a deal i believe negan or his people would have killed someone regardless. simon seemed reasonable enough so maybe it would have worked out ? hard to say really

That's not how Negan operates. He doesn't just kill for no reason. They could have tried to bargain and size up Negan's group in person instead of trying to guess. Sure, they'd have to get shit for Negan for a while but they could have formulated a plan instead of rushing in with a boatload of assumption.

 

[SirClinksAlot]

Im so glad they actually had Negan take out Glenn. The show needed that. I would have rather they got rid of Daryl instead of Abe, but we all know that would never happen.

 

[Darth Pinche]

Fuck Negan. Never hated an badguy so much! A lot of charisma tho, first time I see this actor. What are his most noticable previous roles?

He was the Comedian in Watchmen. He was very good there as well.

 

[Audioboxer]

That's not how Negan operates. He doesn't just kill for no reason. They could have tried to bargain and size up Negan's group in person instead of trying to guess. Sure, they'd have to get shit for Negan for a while but they could have formulated a plan instead of rushing in with a boatload of assumption.

He would always do something to break Rick. He's not a dumb ass, Rick is a dangerous guy to any other leader, let alone one as charismatic and cunning as Negan.

 

[Surfinn]

He would always do something to break Rick. He's not a dumb ass, Rick is a dangerous guy to any other leader, let alone one as charismatic and cunning as Negan.

If Rick were reasonable from the beginning and played by Negan's rules, there would have been no bloodshed. Again, Negan doesn't just break people for no reason. If a group appears cooperative, why ruin that for no reason?

 

[Audioboxer]

If Rick were reasonable from the beginning and played by Negan's rules, there would have been no bloodshed. Again, Negan doesn't just break people for no reason. If a group appears cooperative, why ruin that for no reason?

Keyword, appears.

Rick and co don't shack up with batshit insane people for a laugh. Negan is in the place of power he is because he does insane shit when it lets him get his way/control people. Did you not watch the episode? He literally controls people.

Good luck controlling Rick with a handshake.

 

[MiamiWesker]

Some weird reactions out here, I don't get how people who are supposedly fans of the show (you lasted 6 seasons) can have such opposite views of this episode. That was brilliant TV, that was maybe the best episode this show has ever had. The acting was perfect. The tension the highest I have ever felt for a TV show. The shock value obviously through the roof. They set out to make an episode where you see Rick become broken and to break the audience to and they did just that. All the gore was necessary, it's your loved one not just dying, but dying in the most brutal horrific way, a way that stays with you.

I was one of the ones pissed at the season finale, I agree this was not the best way to do it. The impact was lost waiting for so long and part of the episode for the audience was just a wait to see who died rather than be invested in the scene. Still they did so damn well with this episode I forgive it.

As for the critique on the show, I don't get it. It's always been gory and violent, that's the world they live in. It's never had some overall story goal, these people are in purgatory, it is just seeing what you would do to survive. It's a show about putting people in terrible situations and seeing what would they do. Would you change, would you murder others, who will you become. And that is fascinating to me. It's been getting better and better the last few years.

I watch GoT, netflix shows, seen some of the all time greats and few shows made me feel the tension I felt last night. Are there down episodes, all shows have them. Do they do some frustrating shit with fake out deaths, yeah but as a GoT fan you can't say a damn thing cause the last two books have been filled with the same thing. The characters are great and well developed. The situations they get into are extremely compelling. And the quality across the board from acting, writing, directing, makeup and so on is top notch.

I don't get where the disconnect happens for people that watched all these seasons and now it's somehow bad or the last few years it's been bad when I feel it's been some of their strongest seasons. Maybe it's comic readers, I watch GoT very differently as I am a book reader so maybe that's it. I find myself as hooked as ever to this show.

 

[Audioboxer]

Some weird reactions out here, I don't get how people who are supposedly fans of the show (you lasted 6 seasons) can have such opposite views of this episode. That was brilliant TV, that was maybe the best episode this show has ever had. The acting was perfect. The tension the highest I have ever felt for a TV show. The shock value obviously through the roof. They set out to make an episode where you see Rick become broken and to break the audience to and they did just that. All the gore was necessary, it's your loved one not just dying, but dying in the most brutal horrific way, a way that stays with you.

I was one of the ones pissed at the season finale, I agree this was not the best way to do it. The impact was lost waiting for so long and part of the episode for the audience was just a wait to see who died rather than be invested in the scene. Still they did so damn well with this episode I forgive it.

As for the critique on the show, I don't get it. It's always been gory and violent, that's the world they live in. It's never had some overall story goal, these people are in purgatory, it is just seeing what you would do to survive. It's a show about putting people in terrible situations and seeing what would they do. Would you change, would you murder others, who will you become. And that is fascinating to me. It's been getting better and better the last few years.

I watch GoT, netflix shows, seen some of the all time greats and few shows made me feel the tension I felt last night. Are there down episodes, all shows have them. Do they do some frustrating shit with fake out deaths, yeah but as a GoT fan you can't say a damn thing cause the last two books have been filled with the same thing. The characters are great and well developed. The situations they get into are extremely compelling. And the quality across the board from acting, writing, directing, makeup and so on is top notch.

I don't get where the disconnect happens for people that watched all these seasons and now it's somehow bad or the last few years it's been bad when I feel it's been some of their strongest seasons. Maybe it's comic readers, I watch GoT very differently as I am a book reader so maybe that's it. I find myself as hooked as ever to this show.

The tension was insane. It was like being dragged slowly across a bed of nails. The script of having Rick say hardly anything for most of the episode was also brilliant writing. Played into the tension as you knew he had seen some awful shit but it was being held back from the viewer initially.

 

[Surfinn]

Keyword, appears.

Rick and co don't shack up with batshit insane people for a laugh. Negan is in the place of power he is because he does insane shit when it lets him get his way/control people. Did you not watch the episode? He literally controls people.

Good luck controlling Rick with a handshake.

If you read the comic, there's never a time when Negan lashes out at/punishes someone for nothing. If people are falling in line and abiding by his rules, he's not going to fuck that up. Doesn't mean he's not gunna fuck you over and use you for supplies, but he's not just going to kill someone for nothing. Life still sucks, but you're still alive and functioning.

 

[Fenderputty]

If Rick were reasonable from the beginning and played by Negan's rules, there would have been no bloodshed. Again, Negan doesn't just break people for no reason. If a group appears cooperative, why ruin that for no reason?

Where in the story line do you think Rick being "reasonable" would have saved anyone? If it was any time after they shot up Negan for Hilltop, you're kidding yourself.

 

[Audioboxer]

If you read the comic, there's never a time when Negan lashes out at/punishes someone for nothing. If people are falling in line and abiding by his rules, he's not going to fuck that up. Doesn't mean he's not gunna fuck you over and use you for supplies, but he's not just going to kill someone for nothing. Life still sucks, but you're still alive and functioning.

But Rick and Co don't fall in line. That is precisely the issue. They always seek to either take control to improve/lead a situation, or they seek justice when people behave poorly. Look at half of Negans followers, they steal and blackmail people.

 

[Von Krukru]

He was the Comedian in Watchmen. He was very good there as well.

Wow, I remember now! He was good too in this role. I wish I'm this cool when I'm 45!

 

[Fury451]

He was the Comedian in Watchmen. He was very good there as well.

He was also in The Losers, and was Papa Winchester on Supernatural.

He's a pretty underrated actor and I think his abilities have only gotten better with time.

 

[Chopper]

Holy fuck.

My wife made me turn the episode off after Glenn got hit. Thankfully she looked away before she could see his eye bulging out of his skull.

Fucking brutal.

Unfortunately, it looks as though she's done watching the show. I'll try and convince her otherwise, but that was some insane television.

Legit shook.

 

[Surfinn]

Where in the story line do you think Rick being "reasonable" would have saved anyone? If it was any time after they shot up Negan for Hilltop, you're kidding yourself.

I'm talking about where they are in the show. Morgan presented Rick with the idea of talking to Negan first. That's sure looking like a fine option now, considering they had that talk anyway, but it ended up being after Rick and co. murdered scores of Negan's men and Negan proceeded to kill two of their best people.

But Rick and Co don't fall in line. That is precisely the issue. They always seek to either take control to improve/lead a situation, or they seek justice when people behave poorly. Look at half of Negans followers, they steal and blackmail people.

Fall in line.. at first. Long enough to formulate a plan after getting basic intel on Negan and his army.

 

[RPS37]

All I can say is at the time, as it was happening, the gore felt like too much.
That being said, after letting it all sink in (I survived the episode), I think I can keep watching.