Support NeoGAF

[Audioboxer]

Preach! I actually watched a couple of the Saw movies a few months ago and this is nothing like that. Those movies don't deal with the trauma of the moment beyond one character screaming another character's name for 5 minutes. Then it's on to a newly designed trap. It fetishizes it because you're just seeing new ways people can be ripped apart. The Walking Dead is guilty of that with some of their zombie designs, but the kills here weren't that at all. It was two people being beaten to death by a crude blunt instrument.

Not to mention that most of the episode is framed around Rick remembering what just happened, and then realizing that if he doesn't comply, the same thing will happen to everyone else.

Yup it was a state of shock. He wasn't even able to speak properly. That was largely why he was so silent, and was stuttering near the end. For someone not really paying attention you might miss a lot of queues of why Lincolns acting was so good and why the buildup of tension and dread worked. You were being taken on a short emotional detour before the horrific unveil clobbered you.

 

[LowParry]

This wasn't that at all. That moment at the end wasn't murder porn foreplay, and the deaths certainly weren't murder porn. The story and tone doesn't treat it as such in any way. It's ugly, uncomfortable, and gruesome, in the way that fictional violence rarely is. Rick getting ready to cut off Carl's arm wasn't tense excitement; it was emotionally draining to see a father broken to such an emotional desperate wreck. It wasn't fun, it wasn't cool, and the show never treats it as such

That scene stressed the hell out of me so hard. It was a feeling desperation. I just wanted the whole thing to end so that we could all just breath for a minute.

 

[Audioboxer]

That scene stressed the hell out of me so hard. It was a feeling desperation. I just wanted the whole thing to end so that we could all just breath for a minute.

Yeah I was pretty much going cut his fucking arm off to stop all of this! Just wanted the despair to end.

Even if you have issues with the gore, the actual episode was brilliantly written to achieve the feelings it wanted to. Even the cut at the end of the zombie kneeling down to some bloody remains was a reminder Glenn and Abe are dead, the world doesn't give a shit. No special treatment.

 

[Seductivpancakes]

That scene stressed the hell out of me so hard. It was a feeling desperation. I just wanted the whole thing to end so that we could all just breath for a minute.

I liked the foreshadowing with the whole right hand talk at the start of the episode, but appreciate it more at the end of the episode.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

That scene stressed the hell out of me so hard. It was a feeling desperation. I just wanted the whole thing to end so that we could all just breath for a minute.

it was really great. Gimple said that it was entirely intentional to shoot the episode through Rick's POV and that the episode overall was about the breaking of Rick Grimes. And in order to make it believable he had to break the audience as well.

Really great job by Gimple/Kirkman/Nicotero.

 

[RS4-]

Next episode: all a dream, they're all still kneeling before Neegan.

 

[Audioboxer]

Next episode: all a dream, they're all still kneeling before Neegan.

They kind of done that with the extended flashes of others dying Rick had. Although the purpose of them was just Rick going through shock whilst remembering Negan had threatened more killings if he didn't comply. Still it probably duped lots of viewers.

 

[DavidDesu]

Goddamit. Sitting here kinda depressed. Loved Glenn.

Near the end of the episode I just felt, is this TWD's overarching aim now, to show an unending world of violence, to show man's inhumanity to man to the extreme, over and over and over? It would be incredible if that's what they keep doing, but we need a happy ending. Eventually, something must give. We can only take so much of this! Is there a game plan in sight? I don't know anything about the comics, but I think they're still going on. I really hope they have a clever plan to make all of this mean something and have resonance in the end.

 

[LowParry]

But yeah, I don't get how people could be so offended by the gore. If people are mad because their beloved character died in such a gruesome way, sure. Some of the shots (Glenn's dead body for example) may have been over the top. I think they could of just left as it after we see Negan using Lucille. But at the same time, it's suppose to be telling us how ruthless Negan is and what he's willing to do. And see the results. I think this is going to turn into an exciting season. I haven't read past Issue 101 so I'm going in blind at this point with the series.

 

[Audioboxer]

But yeah, I don't get how people could be so offended by the gore. If people are mad because their beloved character died in such a gruesome way, sure. Some of the shots (Glenn's dead body for example) may have been over the top. I think they could of just left as it after we see Negan using Lucille. But at the same time, it's suppose to be telling us how ruthless Negan is and what he's willing to do. And see the results. I think this is going to turn into an exciting season. I haven't read past Issue 101 so I'm going in blind at this point with the series.

Well I do agree it was ramped up to get as close to what comic book Negan seems to be. Which is a total psychopath. There was no room here for anyone to even think The Governor is just as bad. It's like what GoTs had to show for Ramsey Bolton to get the whole audience base to absolutely hate him.

 

[statuez]

that fake dinner scene lmaoooo

pathetic

 

[Teletraan1]

How so? That's effectively built dread and tension. It's that old trope that not seeing something is often scarier than actually seeing it. How can no violence be part of that? In a Saw or Hostel or slashers, it's gory but the movies treat it like the Raid treats an awesome fight. It's half-disgusting/half-this is so crazy it stops being disgusting and starts being absurd. The build-up to the gory deaths is not one of dread but of preparing for excited disgust that makes the theater crowd let out a "Whooaa" when the payoff comes

This wasn't that at all. That moment at the end wasn't murder porn foreplay, and the deaths certainly weren't murder porn. The story and tone doesn't treat it as such in any way. It's ugly, uncomfortable, and gruesome, in the way that fictional violence rarely is. Rick getting ready to cut off Carl's arm wasn't tense excitement; it was emotionally draining to see a father broken to such an emotional desperate wreck. It wasn't fun, it wasn't cool, and the show never treats it as such

That's what separates this from the actual torture/gorn porn films like Saw and Hostel and others

Whatever it was it was uncomfortable to watch. If that was its intent then so be it. Intent doesn't make it an enjoyable watch. Whatever incorrect term people are being chastised for using doesn't change how it made people feel even if they cannot articulate it. Personally I have been drifting off of this show for a while because the decisions these people made that lead them here were infuriating.

My problem with killing off Glenn is that they wasted so many episodes over the seasons and even last season with Glenn close calls that it was a shit way for him to ultimately go out. I totally called the big ginger getting killed when I watched the finale last season. He was talking marriage and shit so he was doomed.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

Yup it was a state of shock. He wasn't even able to speak properly. That was largely why he was so silent, and was stuttering near the end. For someone not really paying attention you might miss a lot of queues of why Lincolns acting was so good and why the buildup of tension and dread worked. You were being taken on a short emotional detour before the horrific unveil clobbered you.

Yes! And it's hard to digest for a tv audience. People want arcs to unfold over the course of the episode. There isn't a happy ending to this. But that's where it has to leave us for the purposes of the story they're telling. If Negan doesn't break the group, like worse than ever before, you'd just have people saying "Well why don't they fight back!" They're fucked. They were the biggest baddest kids on the playground for the longest time, and Negan came along and took them down, not just a couple, but all the pegs.

The Walking Dead is a long form story. It's meant to be ongoing. We are at a low point that is probably going to take them a long time to recover from, if they ever recover. But you need the lows before you get the highs.

Negan wants these people to know that he is God to them. That's why he did that Abraham bullshit to Rick, telling him to harm his own son. Rick "The Prick" Grimes was so shook, and if you break him, nobody in the group will act out. Lincoln did an amazing job with that scene.

 

[Audioboxer]

Whatever it was it was uncomfortable to watch. If that was its intent then so be it. Intent doesn't make it an enjoyable watch. Whatever incorrect term people are being chastised for using doesn't change how it made people feel even if they cannot articulate it. Personally I have been drifting off of this show for a while because the decisions these people made that lead them here were infuriating.

My problem with killing off Glenn is that they wasted so many episodes over the seasons and even last season with Glenn close calls that it was a shit way for him to ultimately go out. I totally called the big ginger getting killed when I watched the finale last season. He was talking marriage and shit so he was doomed.

That was just writer bait because the constant questions were is Glenn going to die because Glenn dies in the comic's? They were teasing and then getting some crying online when Glenn survived. Heck people were saying Glenn isn't going to die now because he had the sewer escape. lol, they were saying?

 

[MiamiWesker]

I'll bite. For me it was more the scenes in the RV. The word that came to my head was "sadistic" and I'm having a hard time describing the feeling I had during that scene. Sort of just, why am I watching this shit? It's not entertaining anymore, it's not something I want to watch, I don't care what happens. My mind then went to, Negan will most likely die or at least get taken down and I simply don't have an interest in seeing how it happens. Do I really want to invest my Sunday nights into this show anymore? And the answer is no. It's not as simple as it was just too gory or "torture porn". Hard to explain I guess.

I will say for me I've been the one on the other side tons of times just shaking my head at people quitting shows so it's very weird being on this side of it. I feel kinda guilty about it honestly! Oh well, there's plenty of great TV out there.

I rather see good explainations like this than "too much gore I'm out". That's not genuine. What you said is.

 

[JoeBoy101]

Yup. But Game of Thrones is everyone's darling so it's fine then.

And you call the WD critics salty?

Game of Thrones doesn't blatantly string along the viewer like showing the murder from the victim's POV at the end of the season, and then stringing along the viewer as to who it was that killed.

I'm not watching anymore because its just not interesting. There's so much other good TV out there, that Walking Dead feels very facile and forced.

 

[ThisGuy]

I can't believe they killed my boy Glenn. He was easily in my top three. Should of been that Darryl, he's the fool who acted up.

Sad episode for me.

 

[wenis]

The fact this is considered murder porn and the last 6 seasons wasn't shocking or disturbing enough to dissuade you from watching the show is abso-fucking-lutely hilarious and must be some grand joke.

 

[Seductivpancakes]

As upsetting as it is seeing Glenn die, can we take a moment to appreciate the writing for Negan?

His entire one sided chat with Rick was great.

 

[Dr. Malik]

when do the ratings come out?

 

[ThisGuy]

As upsetting as it is seeing Glenn die, can we take a moment to appreciate the writing for Negan?

His entire one sided chat with Rick was great.

Lol, I was legit upset with myself for enjoying Negan. I was so invested in team Glenn.

I loved they sent Glenn off as if he was an after thought to Negan.

 

[GalacticToast]

As upsetting as it is seeing Glenn die, can we take a moment to appreciate the writing for Negan?

His entire one sided chat with Rick was great.

Neegan put Rick in his place. Shit was amazing. Dude is hilarious.

 

[Audioboxer]

The fact this is considered murder porn and the last 6 seasons wasn't shocking or disturbing enough to dissuade you from watching the show is abso-fucking-lutely hilarious and must be some grand joke.

We should remember Glenn's fake death involved us getting to see "his" intestines ripped out and eaten on camera

 

[MiamiWesker]

And you call the WD critics salty?

Game of Thrones doesn't blatantly string along the viewer like showing the murder from the victim's POV at the end of the season, and then stringing along the viewer as to who it was that killed.

I'm not watching anymore because its just not interesting. There's so much other good TV out there, that Walking Dead feels very facile and forced.

It only fake kills one of its mains and forces viewers to tune in next season for a fakeout. I love GoT but it did the same shit only worse as this show didn't fake out.

 

[OrionX]

Neegan put Rick in his place. Shit was amazing. Dude is hilarious.

Not gonna lie, I found myself wanting to laugh when Negan was like "he's not a little bitch like someone I know." lol

 

[JoeBoy101]

It only fake kills one of its mains and forces viewers to tune in next season for a fakeout. I love GoT but it did the same shit only worse as this show didn't fake out.

Glen's Dumpster disagree's Wesker. Finally, it caught up to him.

Snow is a weak example given how it ties into the overall plot, and my point still stands. They didn't string the fans along with him possibly being alive. They resolved all of that including ask the question of whether he could be brought back in the new season. They didn't do a season finale tease.

 

[Savitar]

Indeed. It's like the people posting totally forgot about Abe in their Glen fury.

You mean he isn't racist against gingers?!

 

[More_Badass]

Yeah, Negan better watch out for that future serial killer

 

[LordKasual]

It's funny- because many fans of the comic were ready to quit the show due to the silly cliffhanger this spring. We felt they had dodged the shock and emotional impact that the scene was meant to deliver. Meanwhile, many of the TV-only fans were defending the decision because "TV".

Fast forward to last night, where the shock and emotional impact were delivered in spades, and now most of the comic fans are really happy, and a bunch of the TV-only fans are threatening to quit the show.

I'm guilty of gross over-generalization of the two groups here, of course. But what makes this entertaining to me is that the TV-only crowd is getting to experience exactly what comic fans went through when issue 100 came out.

Thats why this episode was so damn amazing to me. I hate what happened in the episode...but all things considered, the writers did exactly what they needed to do in order to bring the same shock from the comic over into the show, intact. It was shocking in the graphic novel because nobody knew Glenn was going to get murdered like that. But the fact that it happened already in the graphic novel means the same death couldn't deliver the same impact. My sisters never wanted to hear ANYTHING about the comics, but by the time of this episode even they knew about the comic spoilers.

The ability for them to compile everything they knew about the fans of the show, fans of the comic, and people who loosely follow both, and use all of that knowledge (Darryl's fandom immortality, Glenn's comic death, Rick's hand, fans believing they aren't ballsy enough to murder a veteran) to deliver a scene that had all 3 camps on their toes the whole episode is just awesome to me.

Mainly because I felt like the whole cliffhanger thing was such a cheap trick. When they killed Abraham, i felt like my concerns were pretty much confirmed. And then the curves started coming.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Yeah, Negan better watch out for that future serial killer

corrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrl is a fucking G

 

[danilyn27]

My fiancée and I have watched the show since the beginning but yeah, the Lucille beatings are by far the most gratuitously disturbing deaths the show has seen in my opinion. My mind is still scarred with Glenn's final words and the damage Negan inflicted on him. I feel kind of bad for Cudlitz because I liked him but Abraham's death will always be overshadowed by Glenn's.

The difference between tonight and a lot of other characters deaths is that this entire episode really just reeked of misanthropy and dread. I understand why and I think they did a good job of showing Negan breaking Rick, and maybe an even better job of breaking the audience. However, it eventually became so over the top that I felt like I was watching a Tarantino movie. Dale had his guts ripped out and eaten, and Noah had his face pulled apart (which were both awful) but those were momentary, short events as brutal as they were. This went on for far too long (just like my post) here, and it became more about the brutality than the actual loss of a character. Rick's "visions" felt less like natural character development and more like the showrunners taunting the viewer in the most self aware way possible. I have to say though they made the most uncomfortable hour of television I've ever seen and have me mourning the loss of two characters hours later, so props to them for that. Even if the delivery did seem ham-fisted .

I agree that Glenn's death was disgustingly over the top and unnecessary.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

If anything, Negan is incredibly unreasonable. He was only going to kill one of them after their group had killed dozens of his in their sleep.

My question is why aren't the lives of Negan's crew as precious as Glenn's? What about the termites? What about the poor folks in Woodbury?

 

[Enforced]

The memorian video for Glenn and Abraham.

I really like music on the 2nd half on Glenn memorian video. Feels.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Feeling like you're watching a tarantino movie is a great compliment.

 

[More_Badass]

My question is why aren't the lives of Negan's crew as precious as Glenn's? What about the termites? What about the poor folks in Woodbury?

Maybe he feels they deserved to die because they failed him in not guarding the outpost. While these deaths were for a purpose of breaking Rick and his group

 

[SamuraiX-]

Content Roundup – Episode 701: “The Day Will Come When You Won't Be”

AMC Inside The Walking Dead:

• The Making of Episode 701, “The Day Will Come When You Won't Be” - AMC
• Inside Episode 701: “The Day Will Come When You Won't Be” - AMC
• A Farewell to Fans from The Fallen of The Season 7 Premiere: Part 1 - AMC
• A Farewell to Fans from The Fallen of The Season 7 Premiere: Part 2 - AMC
• Preview of Episode 702, “The Well” - AMC | International
• Sneak Peek of Episode 702, “The Well” - AMC | International
• Talking Dead: Memorable Moments - AMC
• Talking Dead: Yvette Nicole Brown & Super-Fan Greg's Reactions - AMC
• Talking Dead: Norman Reedus' Son Reviews Ep. 701 - AMC
• Talking Dead: Lauren Cohan Drops the F-Bomb - AMC
• Talking Dead: Feelin' Pretty Good - AMC
• Talking Dead: It's Jeffrey Dean Morgan's World - AMC

Producer & Cast Interviews:

• The Hollywood Reporter - Producers, Stars Explain Graphic Season 7 Deaths
• The Hollywood Reporter - Michael Cudlitz Admits Cast Lied About Who Was Being Killed Off
• Entertainment Weekly - Director Greg Nicotero on if The Premiere Was TOO Violent
• TVLine - Greg Nicotero: 'It's Unfortunate' Some Will Stop Watching, 'The Show Still Has a Lot to Offer!'
• AMC - Q&A: The Fallen of the Season 7 Premiere: Part 1
• AMC - Q&A: The Fallen of the Season 7 Premiere: Part 2

Critic Reviews:

• Jeremy Egner (New York Times)
• Andrew Wallenstein (Variety)
• Paul Vigna (Wall Street Journal)
• Brian Lowry (CNN.com)
• Richard Rys (New York Magazine/Vulture)
• Joe Dziemianowicz (New York Daily News)
• Nicole Lyn Pesce (New York Daily News)
• Verne Gay (Newsday)
• Jeff Stone (indieWIRE)
• Noam Cohen (New York Observer)
• Joe Otterson (TheWrap)
• Kelly Lawler (USA Today)
• Noel Murray (Rolling Stone)
• Nick Romano (Entertainment Weekly)
• Zack Handlen (AV Club)

PLEASE SPOILER TAG ALL PREVIEW/PROMO AND GRAPHIC NOVEL DISCUSSION. REVIEW THE OP FOR COMPLETE THREAD RULES ON SPOILERS.

 

[Anth0ny]

the simpsons has gone too far

 

[Lasthope106]

I'll bite. For me it was more the scenes in the RV. The word that came to my head was "sadistic" and I'm having a hard time describing the feeling I had during that scene. Sort of just, why am I watching this shit? It's not entertaining anymore, it's not something I want to watch, I don't care what happens. My mind then went to, Negan will most likely die or at least get taken down and I simply don't have an interest in seeing how it happens. Do I really want to invest my Sunday nights into this show anymore? And the answer is no. It's not as simple as it was just too gory or "torture porn". Hard to explain I guess.

I will say for me I've been the one on the other side tons of times just shaking my head at people quitting shows so it's very weird being on this side of it. I feel kinda guilty about it honestly! Oh well, there's plenty of great TV out there.

This is exactly how I felt. The show has been violent but this episode they just didn't earn the right to my emotions. Everything felt like cheap tricks to get me to feel scared, sad, angry. Maybe if they had done this at the finale last season it would not have been as bad, but I had a lot of time to forget. I couldn't even remember the names of the characters.

How many times has the show retreated the same territory now. It just isn't as fun. Of all the people that survived only the sociopaths made it? Like really. At one point that premise was plausible for me, but not anymore.

Not going to lie. I'm going to keep watching, but I don't have high hopes this show will improve. And if they are just going to keep this shit going for 14+ seasons like they have hinted at, then this season has a good shot at being my last one.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

Jeffery Dean Morgan is amazing. Feels bad enjoying his performance because he's a crazy asshole, but my god the dude is having so much fun playing the ultimate heel.

 

[Lothar]

This is exactly how I felt. The show has been violent but this episode they just didn't earn the right to my emotions. Everything felt like cheap tricks to get me to feel scared, sad, angry. Maybe if they had done this at the finale last season it would not have been as bad, but I had a lot of time to forget. I couldn't even remember the names of the characters.

How many times has the show retreated the same territory now. It just isn't as fun. Of all the people that survived only the sociopaths made it? Like really. At one point that premise was plausible for me, but not anymore.

Not going to lie. I'm going to keep watching, but I don't have high hopes this show will improve. And if they are just going to keep this shit going for 14+ seasons like they have hinted at, then this season has a good shot at being my last one.

Why exactly is it cheap? I don't know what you mean. I consider it the best episode they've done for what it did to my emotions.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Content Roundup – Episode 701: “The Day Will Come When You Won't Be”

Thanks man. Those farewell videos are so great. Say what you will but the walking dead family is a great one from the cast to the showrunners to yes even chris hardwick and yvette and all. One of the most fun/tightly knit groups/fanbases around.

 

[Rewrite]

Loved the episode myself. It was brutal to see, but the whole point was to show Rick breaking down and IMO they nailed that shit straight up. The whole Rick/Carl scene was so fucking intense that I haven't felt that sense of intensity for a long time.

One thing though, the way season 6 ended with the screams of the group felt more chilling than what was actually shown in the show in terms of their reactions.

 

[MiamiWesker]

Glen's Dumpster disagree's Wesker. Finally, it caught up to him.

Snow is a weak example given how it ties into the overall plot, and my point still stands. They didn't string the fans along with him possibly being alive. They resolved all of that including ask the question of whether he could be brought back in the new season. They didn't do a season finale tease.

It was a bad death cause no one really believed it and the first episode erased any of that impact that scene by bringing him back to life.

In terms of what matters to the overall story this TWD episode blows away jons fake death in importance. Maybe they strung people along but they delivered amazingly.

 

[Savitar]

Loved the episode myself. It was brutal to see, but the whole point was to show Rick breaking down and IMO they nailed that shit straight up. The whole Rick/Carl scene was so fucking intense that I haven't felt that sense of intensity for a long time.

One thing though, the way season 6 ended with the screams of the group felt more chilling than what was actually shown in the show in terms of their reactions.

Sadly I get the feeling the breaking down of Rick will be lost on some people since they'll forget what happened last season with him being so damn cocky.

 

[Tonky]

Maybe he feels they deserved to die because they failed him in not guarding the outpost. While these deaths were for a purpose of breaking Rick and his group

Negan explained it himself. He doesn't want to kill them, he wants them to work for him.

 

[The Silver]

Yeah, Negan better watch out for that future serial killer

 

[Ultra Numb]

Yeah, Negan better watch out for that future serial killer

Well, he doesn't have to worry about Daryl anymore. Seems like he'll be pretty broken for a while.

 

[KrisB]

That's been western television in a nutshell for decades.

*American.

Australian shows have swearing and nipples.

 

[Tritroid]

Goddamit. Sitting here kinda depressed. Loved Glenn.

Near the end of the episode I just felt, is this TWD's overarching aim now, to show an unending world of violence, to show man's inhumanity to man to the extreme, over and over and over? It would be incredible if that's what they keep doing, but we need a happy ending. Eventually, something must give. We can only take so much of this! Is there a game plan in sight? I don't know anything about the comics, but I think they're still going on. I really hope they have a clever plan to make all of this mean something and have resonance in the end.

I'm not at all backing out of watching the show due to violence, or because Glenn was my waifu, or any other nonsensical reason in this thread, but I DO agree with your point here.

We've been through the evil bad guy cycle again and again, and it does feel very stale at this point. "You thought the Governor was bad!? WAIT TIL YOU SEE WHAT THIS GUY DOES!!!" That plot is so boring now.

What I miss desperately, is the story focusing more on the virus itself, or how the rest of the world is fairing. The CDC episodes in season 1 were some of the most interesting to me, and I really wish they'd revisit that plot. Hell, go the RE route and mutate the virus even further, or find different strains of it, I dunno- take the focus back to the actual Walking Dead (and not in metaphorical terms where Rick and co. ARE the Walking Dead).

 

[SamuraiX-]

Quickfire impressions from me:
- The feeling of dread, tension, and depravity that sat with me before, during, and after issue 100 of the comics was topped in this premiere over 100 fold. I was coming in almost waiting for Aaron or Eugene to get it. Props to Gimple and Kirkman for staying true.
- Abe and Glenn meeting Lucille were the right choices. Their deaths will have the most lasting impact on the group.
- I love that Daryl was taken. Rick just lost 3 of his most trusted lieutenants. The badass right-hand man quota was getting too ridiculous. Now he's down to just Michonne and Jesus until they find Carol and Morgan.
- I'm almost glad that they did the cliffhanger now. The last 15-20 minutes of the Season 6 finale were so good and it made it so the tension carried over into another whole episode.
- JDM is a fucking LEGEND. Way more hyped for the rest of the season than I was coming into this.

Thanks man. Those farewell videos are so great. Say what you will but the walking dead family is a great one from the cast to the showrunners to yes even chris hardwick and yvette and all. One of the most fun/tightly knit groups/fanbases around.

Agreed. I adore them. Seeing them all on Talking Dead really made it feel like they were saying goodbye to a couple of real family members.