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[M0nochromatic]

Some, relatively, good news out of Oklahoma for once. Props to the teacher, even though I believe he could certainly add some clarification and/ or better word what he's saying.

At the very least, I hope this creates a discussion there, and gets those kids thinking about it.

 

[Enzom21]

The hive mind of let's dog pile whoever doesn't meet our standard.

Read my posts on this thread. It's obvious I was acknowledging that people make an effort to change social issues. Jesus dude.

Two people is a dog pile? I wonder what it is about Massive and I that makes you think we're a monolith... hmm.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

What makes it unethical

Do you know anything about the basics of scientific rigor, informed consent and non-maleficence?

The exercise breaks all of them. Students didn't give consent. Students are hand-picked. Students were subjected to ridicule. Students potentially having psychological or emotional traumatization later on was not planned for or addressed. Statistical evidence for the exercise actually reducing prejudice is moderate, not as wildly as successful as you might think. Evidence of it actually having a useful impact towards racist perceptions is slim anyways since it's so intentionally divorced from race.

It's an interesting and important exercise, just like Little Albert, Milgram's shocks, Seligman's dogs, Harlow's monkeys and the Stanford Prison. It's not something to be admired or used on any kind of broad scale to educate about racism though. There are far-better anti-racism tools out there that have been promoted instead, and for good reason.

Masterful goalpost shifting.

I'm not really sure how it's goalpost shifting.

I'm all in favor of educating white people about racism and their dee-pset biases. I'm not in favor of doing it using something like Brown Eyes/Blue Eyes.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Do you know anything about the basics of scientific rigor, informed consent and non-maleficence?

The exercise breaks all of them. Students didn't give consent. Students are hand-picked. Students were subjected to ridicule. Students potentially having psychological or emotional traumatization later on was not planned for or addressed. Statistical evidence for the exercise actually reducing prejudice is moderate, not as wildly as successful as you might think. Evidence of it actually having a useful impact towards racist perceptions is slim anyways since it's so divorced from race.

It's an interesting and important exercise, just like Little Albert, Milgram's shocks, Seligman's dogs, Harlow's monkeys and the Stanford Prison. It's not something to be admired or used on any kind of broad scale to educate about racism though. There are far-better anti-racism tools out there that have been promoted instead, and for good reason.

I see.

It's unfortunate that something that dramatic is as close as most non-minorities will come to experiencing daily life as a minority in America as possible.

I don't really have much hope for the future to be honest

 

[Dreams-Visions]

well then.

how did i miss this thread.

 

[neurosyphilis]

Like our Black President of the United States? Or Supreme Court Justice? Or the other positions of power that many POC hold?

To pretend that racism doesn't exist is ignorant and wrong. To act like you must live in terror and depression and be suspicious of everything that happens is just paranoid.



Because your question is hilariously awful and no answer would be satisfactory or could possibly provide enough proof for you to accept it.

This guy really just pulled the "We have a black president" card. Holy shit.

 

[Professor Beef]

well then.

how did i miss this thread.

Were you watching the debate? Missed one trainwreck for another.

 

[Whom_Gods_Annoy]

What's his username?

Lol...

All of you explaining the nuances of what he is trying to convey, like any highschooler is going to take those away as the main points of his speech. Very silly of him to do this.

Wait holy shit, this is in my town! I went to Norman High across the train tracks instead! Damn!

For what its worth, Norman is by far the most liberal town you will find in Oklahoma.

The "beneficiary" part is implied between the "racist" and the "full stop" part. The expanded statement makes it obvious that she is not talking about some sort of biological defect that's the result of being born with white skin.

The problem is your average highschooler is not going to recognize that.

 

[Nepenthe]

The entire debate in this thread is based on her statement of "To be white is to be racist, full stop". Not "To be white is to be the beneficiary of several hundred years of sociopolitical, economic, and cultural benefits that come arbitrarily attached to being born with the same colour skin as those who have held the reigns of power in that time".

The "beneficiary" part is implied between the "racist" and the "full stop" part. The expanded statement makes it obvious that she is not talking about some sort of biological defect that's the result of being born with white skin.

 

[Derwind]

It's unfortunate the dialogue that the teacher was trying to establish was poorly recieved/delivered. I totally get why people would find the subject matter upsetting but it's important discussion to have given how many people act as if systematic racism & privilege are non-existent... shit even here on this forum.

well then.

how did i miss this thread.

I'm wondering the same thing too.

 

[Nepenthe]

The problem is your average highschooler is not going to recognize that.

Even though there were students who understood the lecture enough to stage a walkout in support of the teacher as well as issue a statement that the lecture was taken out of context by the offended girl and the media?

 

[Psychoward]

Well, that didn't take long.

You should fill in the blanks for us.

You guys actually agree that every single white person is racist? Bruh

 

[Whom_Gods_Annoy]

Even though there were students who understood the lecture enough to stage a walkout in support of the teacher as well as issue a statement that the lecture was taken out of context by the offended girl and the media?

Interesting, I only read what was in the OP, my bad. I guess I should put more faith in some highschoolers. Still, I can't blame people for being upset at this either. I can understand why such a blanket statement would make people tune out your subpoints. I've done it on here and I've seen people do it to my posts.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

You guys actually agree that every single white person is racist? Bruh

Seriously, how did you come up with that from the two posts you quoted?

 

[Enzom21]

You guys actually agree that every single white person is racist? Bruh

Was that in my post, bruh?
"Bruh" yeah okay. 🙄

 

[Nepenthe]

Interesting, I only read what was in the OP, my bad. I guess I should put more faith in some highschoolers. Still, I can't blame people for being upset at this either. I can understand why such a blanket statement would make people tune out your subpoints.

I'm not confused about why people are upset either, but I think part of the issue is that the idea of white privilege isn't actually accepted anyway. Just go back through the thread and see how many people are thumbing their nose at the idea that whites as a whole receive any kind of societal advantage due to skin color. Hell, we just had a thread where some white students walked out of a college anthropology lecture because the professor reiterated that humankind evolved in Africa. It's difficult to cleanly separate where this offense is and isn't justified.

 

[bishoptl]

Not every white person was taught racist thinking when raised.

This.

Thankfully I associated with more than a few of them growing up.

Benefitting from privilege is one thing, this is something else entirely.

 

[h1nch]

“To be white is to be racist, period,” the teacher says.

What a stupid, ignorant thing to say.

 

[Breads]

Not being able to readily recognize your own privilege... maybe. At worst.

“To be white is to be racist, period,” is an utterly ridiculous and unproductive statement to make.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

He meant well, and I would certainly take this kind of statement over, say, Texas grade schools that don't even teach students that humanity originated in Africa, but as an educator we have to hold him to a higher standard.

Instead of making incendiary blanket statements, the teacher should have explained the concept of privilege, and then presented specific examples that would be relevant to his students. Maybe throw in a homework assignment that challenges each student to list x number of privileges that they possess.

 

[FUME5]

The "beneficiary" part is implied between the "racist" and the "full stop" part. The expanded statement makes it obvious that she is not talking about some sort of biological defect that's the result of being born with white skin.

I know what she intended,I know what you are saying and to a large degree I agree, but I'm not going to agree to the statement that to be white is to be racist, whether we are discussing it strictly within the American context or not.

I am not going to agree to any blanket statement concerning ethnicity that says to be born X is to be X, whether I am of that ethnicity or not.

 

[Whom_Gods_Annoy]

I'm not confused about why people are upset either, but I think part of the issue is that the idea of white privilege isn't actually accepted anyway. Just go back through the thread and see how many people are thumbing their nose at the idea that whites as a whole receive any kind of societal advantage due to skin color. Hell, we just had a thread where some white students walked out of a college anthropology lecture because the professor reiterated that humankind evolved in Africa. It's difficult to cleanly separate where this offense is and isn't justified.

I mean, between the two examples, I think it is a clean distinction. That we evolved from Africa is objective clear fact. That all white people are born racist because of the privilege they receive in America? Come on now, that's something else entirely.

I am not going to agree to any blanket statement concerning ethnicity that says to be born X is to be X.

Not every white person was taught racist thinking when raised.

Basically my thoughts.

 

[Psychoward]

Seriously, how did you come up with that from the two posts you quoted?

Considering they both questioned the notion that all white people being ____ isn't a valid argument in a thread about all white people being racist...

Was that in my post, bruh?
"Bruh" yeah okay. 🙄

It's called context clues. The post you quoted pointed out how rediculous it is to group an entire race of people together and you called it out. Admittedly your post wasn't as transparent as the other one so maybe I was just looking at it wrong.

 

[timetokill]

It's like Aristotle said, we're born with a blank slate, a tabula rasa... except white minds, which are racist right out of the womb, y'all.

 

[Slayven]

Not being able to readily recognize your own privilege... maybe. At worst.

“To be white is to be racist, period,” is an utterly ridiculous and unproductive statement to make.

Thats what i been saying

It makes no sense.

I do think privilege needs to talked about in school, so folks reckonige it and can maybe empathize with others

 

[Enzom21]

Considering they both questioned the notion that all white people being ____ isn't a valid argument in a thread about all white people being racist...

It's called context clues. The post you quoted pointed out how rediculous it is to group an entire race of people together and you called it out. Admittedly your post wasn't as transparent as the other one so maybe I was just looking at it wrong.

You got all of that from my post "bruh?"
My post asked the poster to fill in the blanks, bruh. Nothing more. Anything else you are getting out of it is on you, bruh!

 

[Two Words]

The problem with the teacher is that he is treating race as a binary value instead of a spectrum. The fact is that every single human is racist to some degree. We are innately built to trust people that look more like us than those that don't. Acknowledging that is fine.

 

[Psychoward]

You got all of that from my post "bruh?"
My post asked the poster to fill in the blanks, bruh. Nothing more. Anything else you are getting out of it is on you, bruh!

Alright I get that you're upset that I used the word bruh.

The poster wasn't trying to insinuate that all black people or all middle eastern people or whatever are all ____. He or she was pointing out how insane it is to say all people of a race are ___ and you somehow took that as an insult.

 

[Chezzymann]

Would the people who agreed with this statement think that benefiting from white privelage but doing nothing to stop it count as racism? Cause I could understand this sentiment if that was the case.

 

[FUME5]

You got all of that from my post "bruh?"
My post asked the poster to fill in the blanks, bruh. Nothing more. Anything else you are getting out of it is on you, bruh!

"To be black is to be strong, period"

"To be latino is to be passionate, period"

"To be asian is to be smart, period"

"To be middle eastern is to be muslim, period"

Ridiculous.

 

[Psychoward]

Would the people who agreed with this statement think that benefiting from white privelage but doing nothing to stop it count as racism? Cause I could understand this sentiment if that was the case.

No because even then some white people do try and stop it.

I'm trying my best not to sound like a "white people are oppressed right now too pls gibi sympathy" but saying all people act ____ in America because of their skin color is factually wrong.

Saying all white people in America have certain privileges because they were born white? Sure.

And that may have been what the professor intended but according to this story they worded it pretty damn poorly.


Edit: oops I read your post wrong, I'm fired up from the debate and tired from work. Sorry.

 

[Enzom21]

Alright I get that you're upset that I used the word bruh.

The poster wasn't trying to insinuate that all black people or all middle eastern people or whatever are all ____. He or she was pointing out how insane it is to say all people of a race are ___ and you somehow took that as an insult.

"To be black is to be strong, period"

"To be latino is to be passionate, period"

"To be asian is to be smart, period"

"To be middle eastern is to be muslim, period"

Ridiculous.

Yeah, that's exactly what you were implying.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

"To be black is to be strong, period"

"To be latino is to be passionate, period"

"To be asian is to be smart, period"

"To be middle eastern is to be muslim, period"

Ridiculous.

Come on son.

You don't have to like or respect anyone else here but we're not stupid.

 

[FUME5]

Yeah, that's exactly what you were implying.

It's what I'd written initially, before thinking the blanks would be more effective in making my point.

Whether you are ascribing a positive or negative blanket trait to an entire ethnicity, it adds nothing to the conversation.

Come on son.

You don't have to like or respect anyone else here but we're not stupid.

What is this shit? Mate, I don't know you so I have no reason to dislike you, and I'll extend you the basic respect I extend to anyone who hasn't shown that they don't deserve it.

I'm not arguing that white privilege doesn't exist in predominantly white nations, and that it is a huge contributing factor to a lot of the misery inflicted on those of other ethnicities.

I'm pretty sure my argument has been clear form the get go, blanket statements are bullshit.

 

[daviyoung]

Phew well that's good to know. You better just learn to deal with my inherent racism non-whites!

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

Yeah, that's exactly what you were implying.

His point was that making sweeping generalizations about entire races is not okay. Why are you trying to twist it into the complete opposite?

 

[RibMan]

No. It's idiotic to believe that the color of your skin determines what you think, believe in, and practice.

 

[Whom_Gods_Annoy]

Yeah, that's exactly what you were implying.

Tell us what he actually is implying.

 

[Psychoward]

His point was that making sweeping generalizations about entire races is not okay. Why are you trying to twist it into the complete opposite?

Lol right? Am I on bizarro gaf?

 

[Pancake Mix]

I don't think this guy is actually racist, just too narrow-minded to realise that skin tone does not correlate with being a dick to people of other races, and even if it were to, correlation does not imply causation.

Pretty much the most significant thing a racial affiliation means is hair type and what shape your nose, eye orbits, and skull will most likely be barring recent mixing. Human populations have only existed for a brief period and are essentially identical on a genetic level. If one group can be racist, every group can be by our virtually identical nature. There can be slight differences in minor stuff like testosterone but it's really quite insignificant.

Race as a real concept is a human invention. Human populations are incredibly similar.

Moving along, I certainly would not say privilege does not exist, but you can't always rely on "feelings" either. Sometimes it's bullshit, for example see this teacher's feelings. Not saying that's the case normally.

Edit: I realise how stupid it may sound to start talking biological anthropology but considering this teacher is so quick to divide a virtually identical population, I might as well point out biologically he's talking about minutiae. There's no basis for dividing people by freaking eye orbits or implying that everybody subscribes to a tribal affiliation like he does before being a member of the human race.

 

[VanCityGamer]

To be human is to be racist, at least to some extent. Obviously to wildly varying degrees.

 

[Enzom21]

It's what I'd written initially, before thinking the blanks would be more effective in making my point.

Whether you are ascribing a positive or negative blanket trait to an entire ethnicity, it adds nothing to the conversation.

My issue with your post was the whole "If this was said about ___ then would be considered racist". Yes it was a generalize, do you really need examples using other races? That's a lazy argument.
And you weren't implying positive stereotypes in your post, let's be real.

Lol right? Am I on bizarro gaf?

But that's not what your initial post was about now was it?
You wrote that we thought all white people were racists. Did you not, bruh?

Tell us what he actually is implying.

Aren't you adorable.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

Okay, so FUME5's point was that sweeping generalizations about ethnicity are bad.

You should fill in the blanks for us.

What was the point of this?

 

[fabricated backlash]

Today I learned that I'm racist because U'm white... Brb signing up for stormfront.


What a load of white guilt crap. Sure lets reduce a complex social problem to non provable absolute statements.

This is about as insightful as the song i'm listening to right now, "The world is a dying insect"

 

[Whom_Gods_Annoy]

My issue with your post was the whole "If this was said about ___ then would be considered racist". Yes it was a generalize, do you really need examples using other races? That's a lazy argument.
And you weren't implying positive stereotypes in your post, let's be real.



But that's not what your initial post was about now was it?
You wrote that we thought all white people were racists. Did you not, bruh?



Aren't you adorable.

You're both doubling down on your strawman and acting incredibly childish/condescending, ok then.

 

[Robot Pants]

"To be white is to be racist, period"

"To be black is to be______, period"

"To be latino is to be ______, period"

"To be asian is to be_______, period"

"To be middle eastern is to be______, period"

.

 

[FUME5]

My issue with your post was the whole "If this was said about ___ then would be considered racist". Yes it was a generalize, do you really need examples using other races? That's a lazy argument.
And you weren't implying positive stereotypes in your post, let's be real.

It's what I'd written initially.

You are free to believe or disbelieve me, just as you are free to believe that all white people are racist, but that won't make you right.

 

[Enzom21]

It's what I'd written initially.

You are free to believe or disbelieve me, just as you are free to believe that all white people are racist, but that won't make you right.

Where did I put that I believe that all white people are racists?

 

[Zaru]

I love me some original sin rhetoric.

 

[Cranster]

Nobody is born racist. It's all about how you are raised and the environment you grow up in.