"Bait post" another silly ass argument. No one can make you post something you don't want to. Take responsibility for what you post, no one can bait you into doing shit.
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To be white is to be racist, period, a high school teacher told his class
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"Bait post" another silly ass argument. No one can make you post something you don't want to. Take responsibility for what you post, no one can bait you into doing shit.
Psychoward
Banned
The OP was making a counter argument as to why the argument in the OP is silly.
you're also being very defensive over me calling you bruh and I only did it because of your supposed agreement with the OP quote which you still have yet to denounce. There's a reason like 3 other posters are on your case about supporting it.
Relevant.
"We're gonna pay hard for this shit you know that? We're not just gonna fall from number one to two. They're gonna hold us down and fuck us in the ass forever, and we totally deserve it, but for now WEEEEEEE!"
The "Op" is the "original poster", I did not respond to the Op I responded to FUME5. What are you talking about?
I am not being defensive, I am not your brother. I also didn't agree with the quote in the OP, as I have explained and you know it.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Something that you are ardently refusing to do here.
You made a dumb post. It happens. I make them all the time. Accept it and move on.
Psychoward
Banned
Sorry it's late. I meant FUME5 made an argument as to why the quote in the OP was silly.
Yeah sure, I am done responding to your nonsense.
Psychoward
Banned
That was literally his point as he's explained to you multiple times. Do you deny that or
Glass Rebel
Member
recognizing that you're (even unintentionally) a part of a larger problem of systemic opression of PoC isn't self-hatred.
GarthVaderUK
Banned
Nonsense.
Awareness is great. Activism is even better. But I don't understand the blanket statement made or the argument behind it in the slightest.
Messofanego
Banned
I doubt it would have gone any better if he tried to sugar coat it like "Everyone's a little bit racist", cause the students who got offended would go on about being "colour blind" and there's no way they could be racist because they haven't committed any hate crimes yet. These are people who don't want to be open-minded to implicit bias that's infected everyone through various means no matter how sweet of a person they are because it exposes a side of themselves that they don't want to be let out to others to know.
travisbickle
Member
Racism isn't the person wearing the pointy white hat we can all point at and hate, it's also the privilege you have in a society with oppression embedded into it.
This whole idea that being white, and being raised by other white people, in some sort of weird ass white vacuum,and assuming that that our lives and influences are all a part of some ridiculous circular montage of hatred, ignorance, and racisim is ridiculous.
It is self hatred if you do not have the sense to logically go through your history as a human, and still assume that you are a racist because you cannot help it.
This debate has become so broadly stupid, that first off white people are not allowed to participate in said debate. Because we are already racist, and we are privileged, so we are incapable of contemplating these deeper concepts that only non whites can understand.
Unless we are self loathing, we are part of the problem.
The whole privileged debate I get. I can find exceptions to the rule, but in general, it easier for white people.
The idea that I am part of the problem simply because I am white, is insane. Maybe I am capable of understanding or at least being empathetic and supportive of problems concerning minorities. Maybe I can admit that white America is a big part of the problem. Accepting responsibility and feeling guilt simply because I am white, not willing to do that.
It's certainly worth differentiating them, isn't it? Not in an exclusive or diminishing way. In the context of the OP it seems like using "racism" as a term that implicitly means both, without being explicit that the teacher isn't saying all white people are being actively and intentionally hateful, is far less constructive or useful than differentiating the two. At least when talking to kids in school. Or to anyone who may not necessarily be aware of the similarities and differences.
I understand the advantages/privilege part, but I'm still not quite understanding how that makes every white person inherently racist. Is the argument that, as a white person, when you're born into a country that has systems that are racist towards non whites, that by proxy you are automatically racist?
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Your genetics (which determine the colour of your skin at birth) does not determine racism. It requires belief derived from experience or indoctrination and then intention to discriminate based on those beliefs.
The student is right to be offended. Causing division by saying things like that at any age (especially at such an impressionable one) is disgusting.
If anything that statement in itself could lead to racism. If not then reverse it: "To be black is to be _______" and see how that feels.
The student is right to be offended. Causing division by saying things like that at any age (especially at such an impressionable one) is disgusting.
If anything that statement in itself could lead to racism. If not then reverse it: "To be black is to be _______" and see how that feels.
Psychoward
Banned
Oh shit I didn't know I was responsible for enslaving people based on their race solely because I'm a white person born in America. Give me a fucking break.
America being founded on racism and the backs of black slaves doesn't mean every white person in America is racist. It's a tragedy that's still felt today and it was a crime against humanity committed by white Americans but surely you can see the flaw in your argument.
I believe in white people helping to fix the systemic oppression some of their ancestors built. I don't believe in holding all white people accountable for crimes they didn't commit.
PdotMichael
Banned
I would imagine being called as racist it would be easer for the group to act accordingly to that name calling instead of proving people wrong.
MikeBreezy92
Member
The reason why those biases and privileges are tied into Racism is because those are the core reason why there's systematic racism. Taking a blind eye to minority groups and their plight in multiple arenas and talking over them is just another form of racism. It doesn't have to be overt or the the more easily recognizable covert racism.
Like just a few months ago we had a few liberal GAF posters tell a bunch of POC that not voting Bernie was going against their interests. That is racist as fuck. That's privilege speaking making it seem like you know what's best for someone of another race. Hell this entire election period was a crash course on how many layers of racism there are.
Going the "Everyone's prejudice/racist" just softens the blow and deprives responsibility. Call it what it is, and if you get upset you more than likely weren't gonna listen anyways.
Like just a few months ago we had a few liberal GAF posters tell a bunch of POC that not voting Bernie was going against their interests. That is racist as fuck. That's privilege speaking making it seem like you know what's best for someone of another race. Hell this entire election period was a crash course on how many layers of racism there are.
Going the "Everyone's prejudice/racist" just softens the blow and deprives responsibility. Call it what it is, and if you get upset you more than likely weren't gonna listen anyways.
Nope. But weather or not they enslaved blacks, the U.S. still benefited from that free labor. The United States would never had been what it is now ( a major world power) without that good old fashion slavery. In fact, the U.S. in all likelihood wouldn't even had been viable without slavery. But, let us overlook hundred years of Jim Crow, blacks lacking due process of law, redlining and various subsidies that Whites in the U.S. have historically received at the sole expense of blacks( for example WWII GI Bill keep blacks veterans from receiving it befits).
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Saying If you're white you're inherently racist is just a little different from saying if you're white you're privileged.
And no, you don't get to pigeonhole people by saying "if you get upset you more than likely weren't gonna listen anyways".
The argument is that privilege continues to exist due to a widespread casual acceptance of white supremacist ideals, which in turn is the result of centuries of cultural indoctrination through the formation of the country. Any American regardless of skin color is going to be inundated with these ideals from the peers, adults, and media around them, which in and of themselves may or may not be overtly or maliciously racist and usually aren't. From there, stereotypes are perpetuated and biases are formed against one's will. Naturally this trends towards negative associations towards people of color, and coupled with whites being the dominant ethnic group in America the aggregate attitudes and small behaviors of the whole population means the perpetuation of a society racist against black and brown people.
It is essentially no different from advertising. We know beyond a shadow of a doubt that advertising works psychologically on human beings, that the more you see and hear about an advertised product the more likely you are to remember that it exists and make some general image or word associations, which increases your chances of finally buying it. Imagine this same concept but for race, and imagine the power of an advertising campaign that has literally gone on for some four to five hundred years. Tim Wise is a white anti-racist activist with children. He pares down his speeches and theories for them all the time in an effort to actively educate them against white supremacy and racial ignorance. And yet despite this rigor from an actual professional, he claims his daughters constantly come home to him spouting such things like Morgan Freeman in Evan Almighty obviously isn't the real God because God just isn't black. Even Wise himself admits he slips up from time to time despite his work and upbringing, with one example being a fleeting thought about the credentials of two black pilots manning one of his flights. If these kinds of messages are sneaking into the home of a person trained and paid to verbally dismantle racism as a job, what about the rest of the population that undoubtedly doesn't think about their race within the context of society as much as minorities do?
This is why I previously insisted that the likelihood of any American somehow being shielded from the bombardment of white supremacist messaging is essentially zero. In more blunt terms, it does mean just about everyone is racist to some degree.
Psychoward
Banned
I already said America was built on the backs of blacks and the effects are still felt today through systemic racism and widespread oppression. You don't need to tell me things I already know and even said in the post you quoted.
That doesn't answer how every white American is racist.
TatteredHat
Member
I've mentally been adding "In the US" to statement such as these, that seems to be the context of these statements most of the time anyway.
uncleniccius
Member
Came here for this. Did not leave disappointed.
There no point in trying to get you to understand.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Everytime I hear whites are inherently racist and non-whites aren't I'm reminded of the Rwandan genocide in which the majority Hutu government massacred the Tutsi population. They used their position to spread a toxic and disgusting belief that the Tutsi people were nothing but cockroaches deserving of extermination.
Those kind of repugnant beliefs can catch on among communities, even smaller ones, if they're isolated and remain unchallenged. So challenging belief systems in 21st century Western nations is a good thing but to conflate the current cultural status quo with skin color by saying "anyone who has this skin color does _______" isn't such a huge leap from the original complaint of racism in the first place.
If you come at them with that then don't be surprised if it causes division and angry responses. Hell, even that teenage girl knew she'd be picked on because of her white parentage.
As for that being a method of challenging the status quo: It's all well and good until it emboldens people and deepens hatred instead of eliminating it.
Those kind of repugnant beliefs can catch on among communities, even smaller ones, if they're isolated and remain unchallenged. So challenging belief systems in 21st century Western nations is a good thing but to conflate the current cultural status quo with skin color by saying "anyone who has this skin color does _______" isn't such a huge leap from the original complaint of racism in the first place.
If you come at them with that then don't be surprised if it causes division and angry responses. Hell, even that teenage girl knew she'd be picked on because of her white parentage.
As for that being a method of challenging the status quo: It's all well and good until it emboldens people and deepens hatred instead of eliminating it.
Always-honest
Banned
Quality teacher. That explains a lot.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
If this discussion is about the American context specifically, it's seemingly not at all about white ethnicity, but white American society.
And if that were stated upfront, it wouldn't be nearly as controversial.
uncelestial
Member
Sure, sure.
All straight people are homophobic. All men are sexist. All cisgender people are transphobic. All young people are ageist. All able-bodied people are ableist.
I like not putting thought into things.
There are better ways to get people to think about unconscious bias than making blanket statements that end with "period" like you actually have proof for the fucked up shit you are saying.
All straight people are homophobic. All men are sexist. All cisgender people are transphobic. All young people are ageist. All able-bodied people are ableist.
I like not putting thought into things.
There are better ways to get people to think about unconscious bias than making blanket statements that end with "period" like you actually have proof for the fucked up shit you are saying.
Vicetrailia
Member
You think that not all men have done or thought sexist things based on mere gender? Should analyze your behaviors and pic up on the micro ones. It creeps in at best.
Mental Atrophy
Banned
I don't think all white people are racist, but I don't have a lot of confidence in the idea that nobody is born racist either--that it can only be a product of culture. Studies that show racism in infants aren't that uncommon, and theorizing evolutionary roots isn't difficult.
I don't think you have to claim you're racist so much as accept the possibility that you could have racist ideations. As a general rule of thumb for life, "it could never happen to me" is something people ought to avoid.
I don't think you have to claim you're racist so much as accept the possibility that you could have racist ideations. As a general rule of thumb for life, "it could never happen to me" is something people ought to avoid.
I fail to understand how this is racist. Sanders is an idiot but telling people what you believe is in their best interests in the democratic process isn't racist. I've seen multiple members of BlackGAF tell rural Americans what their best interests are, and I don't think you'd call that racist.
As to the OP that teacher is awful. The world needs to stop teaching people to be ashamed of an inherent part of who they are, regardless of who it is or what people tied to that group have done in the past.
KonradLaw
Member
All people have done something evil in their life. Thus everybody is evil and there are no good people in this world, right?
Plus every women is guilty of some cases of misandry in her life. Therefore all women are nothing but man haters.
Damn...this makes everything so much easier
Whatever the intent, it seems a poorly worded statement.
If you mean to say that everyone holds racist views, however small, even at a subconscious level (due to inherent human tribalism and societal conditioning), then it's something that extends beyond "being white".
I'm sure a black person will have prejudices against an Asian one and vice versa, for example (this is of course proven by the fact that racism is very much present in countries like South Korea or Japan).
If you meant to refer to institutionalized racism, then it's something that varies from country to country, since a white person will likely not have the same advantages in Japan , as they have in the US, for example (though they'll still probably fare better than other ethnicities, unfortunately).
I don't think pointing out how everyone can hold subconscious racial biases, or how whites are privileged in many developed countries, is anything controversial, but the way the statement was worded is just confusing, and comes off as either inaccurate, or reductive.
EDIT: That said, people should stop thinking in terms of someone either being or not being racist as an absolute.
There are racist thoughts, racist words and racist actions, all of different magnitudes.
You just have to keep watch and root them out when you spot one (or somebody points it out to you), instead of thinking that saying or thinking one racist thing will put you on the bucket list and, therefore, you can't be racist because you don't hate other races, and aren't nearly as bad as some people on said list.
It's more nuanced than that.
This applies to Sexism as well.
If you mean to say that everyone holds racist views, however small, even at a subconscious level (due to inherent human tribalism and societal conditioning), then it's something that extends beyond "being white".
I'm sure a black person will have prejudices against an Asian one and vice versa, for example (this is of course proven by the fact that racism is very much present in countries like South Korea or Japan).
If you meant to refer to institutionalized racism, then it's something that varies from country to country, since a white person will likely not have the same advantages in Japan , as they have in the US, for example (though they'll still probably fare better than other ethnicities, unfortunately).
I don't think pointing out how everyone can hold subconscious racial biases, or how whites are privileged in many developed countries, is anything controversial, but the way the statement was worded is just confusing, and comes off as either inaccurate, or reductive.
EDIT: That said, people should stop thinking in terms of someone either being or not being racist as an absolute.
There are racist thoughts, racist words and racist actions, all of different magnitudes.
You just have to keep watch and root them out when you spot one (or somebody points it out to you), instead of thinking that saying or thinking one racist thing will put you on the bucket list and, therefore, you can't be racist because you don't hate other races, and aren't nearly as bad as some people on said list.
It's more nuanced than that.
This applies to Sexism as well.
uncelestial
Member
That's a pretty different standard than "all men are sexist." To say someone *is* something is to describe them as active participants, not to claim they did a thing once. I thoroughly believe there are plenty of men who are not sexist.
iPaul93
Member
So I assume you have statistics that show that ALL men have done something sexist,right?
Nice generalisation.
I'll just leave this here - or in other words, (as a whole) people tend to prefer being around people similar to them, even when they initially state that they don't mind living around people of different 'race':
https://www.coursera.org/learn/model-thinking/lecture/1qEBU/schellings-segregation-model
http://nifty.stanford.edu/2014/mccown-schelling-model-segregation/
https://www.coursera.org/learn/model-thinking/lecture/1qEBU/schellings-segregation-model
http://nifty.stanford.edu/2014/mccown-schelling-model-segregation/
heliosRAzi
Banned
Martin Luther King wouldn't say all white people are racist
Gotdatmoney
Member
Please tell me you recognize the extent colonialosm played a part in this because without mentioning that I actually can't take what you're sayig in good faith. The history your presenting is literally so washed over it's offensive.
UncleSporky
Member
Doesn't that just let everyone off the hook, though?
If every white person is racist, and it's impossible not to be racist as a white person, then why shouldn't they just embrace it? Why bother to try and improve if you can't escape it?
"Racist" is often seen as one of the worst things someone can be called in the modern world. If all white people are racist then that defangs it completely. When someone says "that's racist," the white person gets to shrug and say "yeah, what did you expect? It's a given."
If every white person is racist, and it's impossible not to be racist as a white person, then why shouldn't they just embrace it? Why bother to try and improve if you can't escape it?
"Racist" is often seen as one of the worst things someone can be called in the modern world. If all white people are racist then that defangs it completely. When someone says "that's racist," the white person gets to shrug and say "yeah, what did you expect? It's a given."
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