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[Raistlin]

On a serious note, it is scary how life is not that far off from some of the movies I've seen.

Well, people always say life imitates art. In reality though, it's the other way around.

 

[slider]

So you obviously lied and got caught, and your defense is it was only a half-lie and people should believe the rest of your story anyways?

Why would the Israeli govt/military/intelligence/police break into the apartment of ANY embassy worker from a western country? Why every day, what does that even accomplish? Did they not get whatever information they wanted in the first five or ten break-ins? I'd imagine one break-in would be sufficient to leave any intelligence-gathering devices. How incompetent are they that she knows about it every time they break in? Doesn't that pretty much compromise their operation? Were they expecting her to leave top secret highly classified documents laying about her apartment after the first ten break-ins? Do you think young ladies who work at embassies bring home anything worth stealing, apparently on a daily basis? Or were they just doing it to fuck with her? Every day? Do they not have anything else to do, other than harassing embassy staff from some Western country?

Presumably the first thing she would do is inform everyone at her embassy, right? Surely any government would investigate the break-ins to protect their employees? Surely they must have filed some sort of official complaint with the Israeli government? Surely they must have gone to the media, in either their home country or even in Israel?

And why do you need to keep the name of the country secret? Obviously the woman knows about it. Obviously she would tell her government so they know about it. Obviously the Israelis know about it. So then why does it need to be kept a secret? If she snitches on them, are they going to send Mossad agents to kill her?

This is so idiotic it definitely deserves a highly embarrassing tag, someone get a mod in here...

Believe what you want mate. I'm not really fussed. It's just that Chikikov noticed my specific post.

It's not just about gaining intelligence though. The only real experience I have with high threat CI environments is Moscow. Part of that is letting people know you're there. I don't expect any serious Security Service would expect competent individuals to discuss secret intelligence in their residence. Or to find intelligence in an apartment (as you rightly note). What it is letting people know you have eyes-on will give them a sense that you (i.e. the intelligence service) can have eyes on anywhere. So do your dry-cleaning runs, your AS and CS routes but we'll be on you is the message. Your tradecraft might get you away but it might not... so any activities counter to the host countries interests are neutralised (and everyone assumes, aside from liaison, the reason any intelligence service has a presence in another country is to spy).

As for the mindset of Israeli intelligence. What do you think it's like? I'd wager it's fucking paranoid.

Cheers.

EDIT: Just read your whole post. The reason I'm keeping her country of origin "safe" is because if she's identified I'm closer to being identified. And I like anonymity. This is a fairly big and public forum. Off to work now.

Double cheers.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

This is even more cinema-like than the Mafia killing in Italy in broad daylight:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor.../Mafia-killing-in-Italy-caught-on-camera.html

NSFW!

 

[xbhaskarx]

EDIT: Just read your whole post. The reason I'm keeping her country of origin "safe" is because if she's identified I'm closer to being identified. And I like anonymity. This is a fairly big and public forum. Off to work now.

Double cheers.

Whoa, you're James Bond, aren't you? Don't worry your secret is safe with us, your cover will not be compromised.

PS Your profile says "Location: London" so you might want to change that if your country of origin is such a big deal. Also, don't say "cheers" or "mate" quite so much.

 

[Sealda]

Let me explain why they are still pros even though they got caught on CCTV and why it does not matter that much if they got caught on CCTV.

1.They knew they was gonna be caught on CCTV and they knew it did not matter that much! If they were afraid on getting caught on CCTV they would never have operated in broad day-light on airports and luxurious hotels where its obvious that there will be lots of CCTVs.

2. These guys are safe now. They will probably look forward to no more field duty. Their state and its secret service will give them safety with new identities and personal security. They will probably get a desk job in the future after laying low for a while. There is absolutely no chance in hell that they will get arrested unless they travel to a middle-eastern country again.

So it does not matter if Dubai´s freaking police knows how they look in disguise! They will never caught them! Why? Because they are protected by Israeli Mossad or some other states Intelligence agency.

If they lived in Dubai or were not operating on behalf of a state, then they would maybe be at higher risk. But still, as long as they are protected by the state they will reside in the future they will never get arrested.

These people were as professional as it gets.

 

[SmokyDave]

Whoa, you're James Bond, aren't you? Don't worry your secret is safe with us, your cover will not be compromised.

PS Your profile says "Location: London" so you might want to change that if your country of origin is such a big deal. Also, don't say "cheers" or "mate" quite so much.

:lol

When I read 'mate' I thought the same thing.

 

[hulot]

All the people bringing up the movie Munich: do they realize that it's actually based around real-life events? Art imitates life, not the other way around.

And those ridiculing an 11-man team: Mossad, one of the most infamous special ops units in the world, operates this way, who is anyone to judge? Authorities didn't even know about the death till the killers were long gone and still don't have any real names or faces.

People should wiki Mossad, follow through some links. Unrelated, but Abu Nidal is an interesting one, you can't make movies as 'movielike' as his life.

 

[Canova]

Israel sez 'no proof'. 'we didn't do it'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8520247.stm

in the end, that's what it is, a clean-cut job, too clean that the only answer is Mossad

oh yeah you guys did it :lol

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Spiegel.de has some interesting video of those guys. Even showing one of the spies waving to the security cam.

 

[slider]

Whoa, you're James Bond, aren't you? Don't worry your secret is safe with us, your cover will not be compromised.

PS Your profile says "Location: London" so you might want to change that if your country of origin is such a big deal. Also, don't say "cheers" or "mate" quite so much.

Heh, thanks for the concern.

And I'm not in London (although I have spoken about it plenty before). IMO it'll be events that identify you not generalities as being Canadian, British or French.

Cheers mate.

 

[nilbog21]

Isn't there a possibility that those aren't even their pictures? :/

 

[Deku]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article7031541.ece

Britain summoned the Israeli Ambassador to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office yesterday, and Gordon Brown promised a full inquiry into the use of fake British passports by a suspected Mossad hit squad.

The Israeli spy agency has emerged as the main suspect in the death of Mahmoud al-Mabhouh, the Hamas leader assassinated in his Dubai hotel room last month. The apparent theft of the identities of six British citizens threatens to sour Anglo-Israeli relations, with the Government under pressure to make a strong protest.

Warrants have been issued in Dubai for the arrest of eleven suspects, at least seven of whom carried passports using the stolen identities of Israelis with dual nationalities. Six of them were British citizens living in Israel. They have expressed shock and urged that their names be cleared.

Police in Dubai said yesterday that they were seeking a further six suspects in addition to the original eleven, all of whom fled the emirate.
Related Links



“We have got to carry out a full investigation,” the Prime Minister told LBC radio. “The evidence has got to be assembled about what has actually happened and how and why, and it is necessary for us to accumulate that evidence before we can make any statements.”

By last night the Government’s line had hardened. “Given the links to Israel of a number of the British nationals affected, there will be a meeting between the permanent under-secretary and the ambassador tomorrow,” the Foreign Office said. “The defrauding of British passports is a very serious issue.” The British Embassy in Tel Aviv was contacting the British passport holders to offer support.

The Serious Organised Crime Agency has been asked to lead the investigation into how the identities were apparently stolen.

The use of the stolen identities has sparked a storm of criticism in Israel. Few Israeli commentators seem in any doubt about Mossad’s involvement.

In the first official comments from Israel on the case, Avigdor Lieberman, the Foreign Minister, told Israeli army radio that Mossad involvement should not be assumed. It was Israel’s policy never to comment on such matters, he said.

Mr Lieberman also played down fears of a diplomatic rift with Britain, adding: “I think Britain recognises that Israel is a responsible country and that our security activity is conducted according to very clear, cautious and responsible rules of the game. Therefore we have no cause for concern.”

British authorities believe that the details used to make the fake passports may have been copied from the bearers’ documents while they were travelling, either by hotel staff or at an immigration desk. Israeli civil rights experts said that if that was the case, Israeli law would have been broken.

Officials in Dubai said that the fake passports had been used for travel in Europe and Asia in the months preceding the killing on January 19.

The new suspects include a woman who was part of the surveillance team in the lobby of the hotel while the murder took place. She had arrived two hours earlier, wearing a tourist sunhat and accompanied by a bearded man in a Panama hat. Another man, part of the core team of seven that carried out the killing, was seen leaving the hotel minutes later with a woman named as Gail Folliard, who was on an Irish passport.

 

[nilbog21]

I love the ppl saying that they meant to get caught :lol Indeed, this is a failed operation IMO

 

[Salmonax]

I love the ppl saying that they meant to get caught :lol Indeed, this is a failed operation IMO

They were caught already? The whole group or just some?

 

[Particle Physicist]

I love the ppl saying that they meant to get caught :lol Indeed, this is a failed operation IMO

I don't know. I mean, they have stuff like this:

Spiegel.de has some interesting video of those guys. Even showing one of the spies waving to the security cam.

on tape. It's a bit strange.

Heh, thanks for the concern.

And I'm not in London (although I have spoken about it plenty before). IMO it'll be events that identify you not generalities as being Canadian, British or French.

Cheers mate.

:lol

you are trying too hard.

 

[Sealda]

I love the ppl saying that they meant to get caught :lol Indeed, this is a failed operation IMO

No its not. They got in, killed him, got out safety. They are done, the mission is accomplished. They will never get arrested.

 

[nilbog21]

No its not. They got in, killed him, got out safety. They are done, the mission is accomplished. They will never get arrested.

i'm talking about israel, not those 11 goons. i dont think they wanted the world to know they were involved in this

I just don't know what to make of the situation o _o

 

[Chittagong]

i'm talking about israel, not those 11 goons. i dont think they wanted the world to know they were involved in this

I just don't know what to make of the situation o _o

I think it was pretty obvious that they knew the world is going to see this, that's why they made it such a spectacle. 11 agents, really now? Only in places where every corner has a CCTV? If they wanted to do it low profile / anonymous, they would have done a car bombing, quick stabbing on the hallway, poisoning or something like that.

No, this smells like it was designed to be a bad ass media spectacle from the very first moment.

What kind of a message would that send?

- "We don't give a f*** of what whoever thinks"
- "You're never safe, we look just like your regular bloke"
- "We are always there, wherever you go"
- "We will get you, and then there will be cake"

 

[Canova]

i'm talking about israel, not those 11 goons. i dont think they wanted the world to know they were involved in this

I just don't know what to make of the situation o _o

All this British PM summoning Israel ambassador is just formality, PR play.

I have no single doubt that British SIS and CIA also have a play in this, information sharing, intel and such

 

[nyong]

Pretty amazing stuff. I imagine this sort of thing is really stinking difficult to pull off nowadays with all the cameras and sophisticated forensics. Life is not a James Bond film, but this isn't far off the mark. And yeah, probably Mossad.

At the risk of being too controversial, I would rather leaders ran around assassinating each other over starting horrific wars that drag in the civilian populace.

 

[slider]

:lol

you are trying too hard.

No really, it was no effort at all. You see a post, you respond. Simple.

Spoiler

Last OT from me!

 

[Chittagong]

All this British PM summoning Israel ambassador is just formality, PR play.

I have no single doubt that British SIS and CIA also have a play in this, information sharing, intel and such

the point I don't get is why not just ask from UK for a bunch of empty passports and issue them to made up names, why go through the trouble of actual identity theft?

 

[I <3 Memes]

I think it was pretty obvious that they knew the world is going to see this, that's why they made it such a spectacle. 11 agents, really now? Only in places where every corner has a CCTV? If they wanted to do it low profile / anonymous, they would have done a car bombing, quick stabbing on the hallway, poisoning or something like that.

No, this smells like it was designed to be a bad ass media spectacle from the very first moment.

What kind of a message would that send?

- "We don't give a f*** of what whoever thinks"
- "You're never safe, we look just like your regular bloke"
- "We are always there, wherever you go"
- "We will get you, and then there will be cake"

Except they have been trying to kill him for 20 years. Maybe they always use teams this large. Operation Wrath of God is rumored to have used over 30 people. The large number in this attempt could just be a reflection of Israels determination to get him this time.

All this British PM summoning Israel ambassador is just formality, PR play.

I have no single doubt that British SIS and CIA also have a play in this, information sharing, intel and such

Exactly. Every government knows that you can just let almost any issue draw out and the public's attention will drift elsewhere. This is a dog and pony show that will amount to absolutely nothing.

 

[Deku]

the point I don't get is why not just ask from UK for a bunch of empty passports and issue them to made up names, why go through the trouble of actual identity theft?

because they would get shot down by the governments they need the passports for. They did the same to Canada and NZ before, using fake Canadian passports to do operations.

The conspiracy theorists deal in faith, and they can always connect the dots to their own conclusions.

 

[-viper-]

Clearly Israel were involved in this given the article posted a few posts up.

 

[Atrus]

Clearly Israel were involved in this given the article posted a few posts up.

Not so clear as yet. In a world where idiots boogeyman everything they don't like as a CIA or Mossad operation, we have to see where the evidence leads. Even if it was Mossad, it may well be decades before there is actual support for that fact.

 

[Chichikov]

It's only partly bullshit dude. She wasn't from the US - I only said that, FWIW, to protect her identify (looking back it's stupid I realise). She was from another Western country.

There are only two nationalities that can get a job at the American embassy in Tel Aviv -
US and Israeli.
So yeah, no.
I'm going to go with full on, non partial bullshit on that one.

But please, go on, don't let me stop you.

 

[D4Danger]

No, this smells like it was designed to be a bad ass media spectacle from the very first moment.

What kind of a message would that send?

- "We don't give a f*** of what whoever thinks"
- "You're never safe, we look just like your regular bloke"
- "We are always there, wherever you go"
- "We will get you, and then there will be cake"

:lol If Mossad don't use this as their official slogan by the end of the week I'm going to be disappointed.

 

[The Bookerman]

?

 

[Mr. Pointy]

:lol Although to be fair Golgo would have sniped this guy from a mile away.

Between three buildings, through a helicopter and while fucking his daughter.

But seriously, you don't fuck with Mossad.

 

[Salazar]

Should have left something distinctively Jewish as a calling card. Or ordered bagels and left room service to find the body.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Should have left something distinctively Jewish as a calling card. Or ordered bagels and left room service to find the body.

Don't people get banned around here for fried chicken jokes? I'd tread carefully.

 

[Salazar]

Don't people get banned around here for fried chicken jokes? I'd tread carefully.

As a (non-practicing) Jew and someone who likes bagels more than they should, I would sigh a little were I banned.

In any case, even Mossad clearly have an active sense of humour.

 

[iamaustrian]

apperantly they used austrian cell phones for their operation.
I just heard it on the news.
Austrian Ministry for Foreign Affairs started to investigate on that case.
the fuck?

 

[JavaMava]

I love how every one on GAF is suddenly an international assassin expert.

"fucking amateurs..."

 

[slider]

There are only two nationalities that can get a job at the American embassy in Tel Aviv -
US and Israeli.
So yeah, no.
I'm going to go with full on, non partial bullshit on that one.

But please, go on, don't let me stop you.

Geez, your sanctimony is showing. You misunderstood (probably my fault). It wasn't the US Embassy at all. I didn't say it was a Westerner at the US Embassy did I? But I've been pulled up about it and I can understand why you'd think I was full of shit so I'll leave it at that.

Damn my non-ability to ignore posts that bring little to the discussion at hand.

 

[robertsan21]

this hit smells wrong, I have never seen a hit planned and everyone got caught on tape.

they wanted to get caught on tape that much is obvious, but why?

someone is bound to reconize these people.

However I loved that they killed this asshole, more stuff like this in the future please

 

[Canova]

this hit smells wrong, I have never seen a hit planned and everyone got caught on tape.

they wanted to get caught on tape that much is obvious, but why?

someone is bound to reconize these people.

However I loved that they killed this asshole, more stuff like this in the future please

- Taunting (some of the suspects seen waving or smiling to the cameras)
- Throwing a curve ball to authorities, are those the real killers?



here's what I read in the Wiki when reading about the Mossad's Wrath of God Operation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wrath_of_God

Critical in the planning was the idea of plausible deniability, that it should be impossible to prove a direct connection between the assassinations and Israel.[11] In addition, the operations were intended to strike a more general fear into Palestinian militants. According to David Kimche, former deputy head of Mossad, "The aim was not so much revenge but mainly to make them [the militant Palestinians] frightened. We wanted to make them look over their shoulders and feel that we are upon them. And therefore we tried not to do things by just shooting a guy in the street – that’s easy … fairly."[12]

This Dubai case has the same exact pattern as what he quoted

 

[lethial]

I love how every one on GAF is suddenly an international assassin expert.

"fucking amateurs..."

They've played lots of Splinter Cell games.

 

[CharlieDigital]

"The aim was not so much revenge but mainly to make them [the militant Palestinians] frightened. We wanted to make them look over their shoulders and feel that we are upon them. And therefore we tried not to do things by just shooting a guy in the street – that’s easy … fairly."[12]

This Dubai case has the same exact pattern as what he quoted

Wait, wait, wait...so who's the terrorist?

 

[Archer]

http://gothamist.com/2010/02/18/us_credit_cards_used_in_hamas_hit.php

If you wondered how the U.S. might become embroiled in the controversy over a Hamas leader's assassination, wonder no more: The Wall Street Journal reports, "Authorities in the United Arab Emirates are probing five U.S.-issued credit card accounts, which officials say were used by five of the 11 suspects in the January killing of a top Hamas leader in Dubai, according to a person familiar with the situation."

There's speculation that Israel's secret service, Mossad, is behind the 11-person team, whose use of wigs and costumes was captured on surveillance video. Even Israeli believed the assassination was the work of Mossad, but today the NY Times reports that after "the Dubai police released images showing some of the 17 people suspected of being in the hit squad bumbling about in poor disguises... Now Israelis are wondering whether their once-famed spy service could have been behind such a sloppy job or, in a John Le Carré-like twist, if Israel could have been framed."

Britain, Ireland and France are dealing with fallout after fake passports for those countries were used by suspects. The WSJ reports that U.S. investigators haven't "yet joined the probe" but one of its readers comments, "Considering getting a credit card in the USA is so easy even dead family pets can get credit, chasing down those five U.S.-based credit cards is a waste of time."

 

[AndyD]

http://gothamist.com/2010/02/18/us_credit_cards_used_in_hamas_hit.php

If you wondered how the U.S. might become embroiled in the controversy over a Hamas leader's assassination, wonder no more: The Wall Street Journal reports, "Authorities in the United Arab Emirates are probing five U.S.-issued credit card accounts, which officials say were used by five of the 11 suspects in the January killing of a top Hamas leader in Dubai, according to a person familiar with the situation."

There's speculation that Israel's secret service, Mossad, is behind the 11-person team, whose use of wigs and costumes was captured on surveillance video. Even Israeli believed the assassination was the work of Mossad, but today the NY Times reports that after "the Dubai police released images showing some of the 17 people suspected of being in the hit squad bumbling about in poor disguises... Now Israelis are wondering whether their once-famed spy service could have been behind such a sloppy job or, in a John Le Carré-like twist, if Israel could have been framed."

Britain, Ireland and France are dealing with fallout after fake passports for those countries were used by suspects. The WSJ reports that U.S. investigators haven't "yet joined the probe" but one of its readers comments, "Considering getting a credit card in the USA is so easy even dead family pets can get credit, chasing down those five U.S.-based credit cards is a waste of time."

I think we all know how easy it is to get a US credit card, so I would not say that's a link of any importance. Hence the comment they quoted.

 

[major_killjoy]

However I loved that they killed this asshole, more stuff like this in the future please

Fucked up world we're living in, when it takes a bunch of hired-hands to dish out justice. ... it makes for a good story, though.

 

[Canova]

Wait, wait, wait...so who's the terrorist?

well they only terrorize the terrorists



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/ne...rticle7032394.ece?token=null&offset=24&page=3

"Since the names on the passports discovered as part of the Dubai Police's investigation are most likely the names of real and innocent people whose identities have been stolen, Interpol does not believe that we know the true identities of these wanted persons," said Ron Noble, the secretary general of Interpol.

So if you're the authority, how would you hunt down these people? no names, you only got photos with fake hair, fake beard, fake mustache, heck possibly fake nose or chin, contact lenses, etc.

where would you start?

 

[Instigator]

"Since the names on the passports discovered as part of the Dubai Police's investigation are most likely the names of real and innocent people whose identities have been stolen, Interpol does not believe that we know the true identities of these wanted persons," said Ron Noble, the secretary general of Interpol.

 

[D4Danger]

So if you're the authority, how would you hunt down these people? no names, you only got photos with fake hair, fake beard, fake mustache, heck possibly fake nose or chin, contact lenses, etc.

where would you start?

Maybe just ask random people on the street or use Google maps?

I should apply for a job at Interpol.

 

[Meus Renaissance]

One complicating factor is that in 1987, the Israelis promised Britain that it would not use British passports in secret operations again.

However these events have a certain ritual about them. New Zealand got angry with Israel in 2004 when two Israeli agents were found to be using New Zealand passports. Diplomatic ties were frozen but were quietly resumed a year or so later after an Israeli apology.

In 1987, Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher did order the closure of the Mossad station in London for a time - though no doubt it carried on in different ways - after the kidnapping of the Israeli nuclear whistleblower Mordechai Vanunu.

But that did not affect her support for Israel and in due course, normal service resumed.

If it finds the evidence this time, Britain will no doubt demand satisfaction. But neither Britain or Israel will want this to escalate into a full-scale row.

The British Prime Minister Gordon Brown is sympathetic to Israel and there is a delicate intelligence relationship that needs to be preserved as far as possible in view of the threat to both countries from Islamist extremists.

This might well be one of those bumps in the road that have dogged British-Israeli relations for decades, going back even beyond the founding of the State of Israel in 1948.

It is rarely been an easy relationship and has been marked by contradictions, resentment and touchiness on both sides.

The historic promise from Foreign Secretary Lord Balfour in 1917 that Britain would establish a "national home for the Jewish people" in Palestine, while also promising that the "civil and religious rights" of the "existing non-Jewish communities" would not be prejudiced, proved impossible for Britain to deliver.

Britain found itself having to put down a Palestinian-Arab revolt in 1936 only to be attacked by Jewish groups wanting Britain out of Palestine after the Second World War. It pulled out in anger and chaos.

The Israelis complain that Britain reneged on the Balfour promise in a White Paper in 1939 which rejected the concept of a two-state solution and severely restricted Jewish immigration at a time when Jews were being murdered by the Nazis.

For years, there was a strand in the British Foreign Office that was hostile to Israel.

Britain delayed recognising Israel as a state for eight months. The US did so within minutes. You can occasionally hear echoes of that hostility in London, but there are really only echoes, not policy.

Things improved in the 1950s and 60s. In fact, Britain and France were Israel's main weapons providers then, not the United States. Israel won the 1967 war with French aircraft and British tanks. And in the Suez operation in 1956, Britain and France colluded with Israel in the invasion of Egypt, until the US pulled the plug.

Then, Conservative Prime Minister Edward Heath slapped an arms embargo on Israel and other combatants in the 1973 war, and Israel has relied on the US ever since.

It no longer puts its trust in any European government, though it likes their goodwill.

In turn the Europeans try to balance their support for Israel as a state with their sympathy for the Palestinians as a people. They also have to be mindful of their relationship with the Arab world as a whole.

Relations at the best of times can turn touchy. There is currently a row over the British system of allowing magistrates to issue arrest warrants for alleged war crimes and, according to Israel, the British government has been too slow in changing this.

Incidents like Dubai make maintaining a balance more difficult.

 

[LQX]

Was this guy they killed a major figure? He is not even getting any headlines though it took 11 hitmen to take him out. I'm no hitmen or expert but this whole thing seems messy for an assassination. There is a paper trail and its still in the headlines but maybe that's what they wanted.

 

[Canova]

Was this guy they killed a major figure? He is not even getting any headlines though it took 11 hitmen to take him out. I'm no hitmen or expert but this whole thing seems messy for an assassination. There is a paper trail and its still in the headlines but maybe that's what they wanted.

well he's not a movie star or anything. He's just a senior Hamas member, and to the Israelis that's big enough to hunt down

 

[BlueTsunami]

Austrian issued cellphones, British passports and American issued credit cards :lol Oh man, so awesome.