If you have to mention a guy that lost his modship years ago as some kind of gaf gotcha, your argument is so weak it shouldn't be made in the first place.
PSA
I say this as somebody that thought his stubborn stance on Sanders was ridiculous.
1 In 10 Sanders Primary Voters Ended Up Supporting Trump
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If you have to mention a guy that lost his modship years ago as some kind of gaf gotcha, your argument is so weak it shouldn't be made in the first place.
PSA
I say this as somebody that thought his stubborn stance on Sanders was ridiculous.
Please explain how he "supported" Amir0x.
FinalStageBoss
Banned
dumb fucks
PUMAs were the equivalent in '08 and there was plenty of talk about them at the time.
It's just that Iraq + Recession + Once in a Generation Candidate made it a landslide.
That doesn't seem like the most probable explanation.
Generalpsyduck
Banned
What a great attitude I'm sure telling a large portion of Democrats to fuck off will lead to us winning in 2018 and 2020.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Lol good lord
I'm sure in the pathetic little world you inhabit that makes sense and maybe even sounded witty, but here the adults are having a discussion.
May you one day find peace.
Based on those numbers, there are very few elections that would have not been tilted had the losing side's defectors not actually defected. (Maybe Obama 2008? Too lazy to look it up)
Though Trump losing 12% of GOP primary voters was pretty shocking. Had the GOP had the discipline that the Bernie folks had, election would have been brruuutal.
Though Trump losing 12% of GOP primary voters was pretty shocking. Had the GOP had the discipline that the Bernie folks had, election would have been brruuutal.
As much as I wish they hadn't voted like that, it's counter-productive to lay the Trump win solely on the heads of Bernie supporters. A ton of things could have happened to keep Trump from winning. The search for a single smoking gun is infuriating. We need to look at all the things that went wrong and work on fixing them.
RPGCrazied
Member
Its those Bernie busters. I thought those just didn't vote, but to vote for Trump? They really weren't for Sanders then.
It was these people along with the 47% that didn't vote is why we have Trump.
It was these people along with the 47% that didn't vote is why we have Trump.
soul creator
Member
So Bernie more than likely would've gotten the vast majority of Democrats in the general, since I'm always told that most Democratic voters (especially the Clinton supporters) are above purity politics, and would've obviously voted for Bernie to keep Trump out of office, regardless of whether he was their first choice. Plus, all the polling evidence over the past two years shows that he becomes more popular with all groups of people the more they know about him (and he continues to be popular). And, he apparently could've won over the loony and irrational "anyone but Clinton, even if it's Trump!" voters, and also would've probably peeled off a few of the 3rd Party voters, since some of their policies would have been part of his platform.
Damn, seems like though he lost the primary (where he was an underdog matched up with one of the most popular Democrats of the past 30 years, and even though people within the confines of a limited Democratic primary vastly preferred Clinton, no evidence showed that he himself was ever disliked or hated on any mass scale) he would've dominated in a general election matchup vs. Trump!
Damn, seems like though he lost the primary (where he was an underdog matched up with one of the most popular Democrats of the past 30 years, and even though people within the confines of a limited Democratic primary vastly preferred Clinton, no evidence showed that he himself was ever disliked or hated on any mass scale) he would've dominated in a general election matchup vs. Trump!
This was posted on twitter earlier in the day, but those Bernie Bros actually seems to have tilted the results.
https://twitter.com/gelliottmorris/status/900164807961305088
Fucking woof.
cheezcake
Member
Right but these people were never going to be Clinton voters. Ever. So it's no different to going to any other group of Trump voters and saying, "well if these Trump voters weren't Trump voters we would've won!"
It's pointless.
I'm convinced that voter apathy in the Midwest was a much larger contributor to Trump's win
Agreed. They were anti-Hillary voters. If they were Bernie supporters, they would have listened to Senator Sanders and voted for Hillary.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
This type of data is useless.
Plenty of things could've tilted the results, placing blame on any single of them is a worthless endeavour.
SolarPowered
Member
Oh jeez
It's already been mentioned before on MSNBC, CNN and other news outlets, but I'll say it again. The margins were so close that any little thing could have changed the outcome. Maybe Comey releasing the letter a few days later might have saved Hillary's skin, maybe Hillary intensifying her campaign in the rust belt a month or two earlier could have changed things for the better, maybe the hollywood access tape not coming out the same day as Obama's warning on Russian interference might have informed more voters on Trump's suspicious connections to Russian oligarchs and money, etc.
Hillary's failure was the result of death by a thousand cuts and Trump won by the very skin of his teeth thanks to the electoral college.
Toy Soldier
Member
Perhaps I missed it, but how does this compare to the Bernie -> Jill voters? Probably comparable to #NeverTrump voters -> Gary Johnson voters?
(Stein / Baraka was my path of choice...in Alabama, so, of little relevance...)
I respect standing by voting for the candidate that best fits your standards, versus voting against the unknown Presidency of another. Voting for a President is a rare opportunity.
Plus, this may have already been noted, but a lot of folks on the farther-left figured that the folly of a Trump presidency would not only bolster the centrist left, but also push the left a little farther to the progressive end of the spectrum. They were playing end-game, and while I doubt whether that reward is likely and / or worth a Trump presidency, I have been at several meetings with people who preached this tactic.
(Stein / Baraka was my path of choice...in Alabama, so, of little relevance...)
I respect standing by voting for the candidate that best fits your standards, versus voting against the unknown Presidency of another. Voting for a President is a rare opportunity.
Plus, this may have already been noted, but a lot of folks on the farther-left figured that the folly of a Trump presidency would not only bolster the centrist left, but also push the left a little farther to the progressive end of the spectrum. They were playing end-game, and while I doubt whether that reward is likely and / or worth a Trump presidency, I have been at several meetings with people who preached this tactic.
Bernie could have done more to get them to transfer his votes to Hillary if he hadn't dodged supporting her outright until the last moment and even then was uncommitted about it. It wasn't the sole reason, but his inability to accept defeat months before when it was a mathematical certainty did damage. He was more concerned about keeping the high of all the attention he was getting.
dehydratedbabies
Member
This take is insane.
The election was a fraud(Russia) and a statistical anomaly. She lost by 70k votes across three states. No Comey letter and she wins, easy. No Russian support and she wins even more easily.
Doesn't matter and neither does this stat. While I think Sanders or bust people are cunts to a man, this is very very low defection rate and something that can not be blamed. This actually shows most Bernie supporters are sane people. There will always be a few special little flowers with their purity tests.
Doesn't matter and neither does this stat. While I think Sanders or bust people are cunts to a man, this is very very low defection rate and something that can not be blamed. This actually shows most Bernie supporters are sane people. There will always be a few special little flowers with their purity tests.
curiouscharles
Member
yup, super strange.
i'm not American, but from an outside perspective Bernie was an incredible dude.
i figured his supporters would all be democratic socialists, not crazy fucking trump supporting bigots.
1/10 isn't really that bad a ratio all in all, obviously that 10% were just the weird "anti-establishment" types [or misogynists] who wouldn't vote for Hillary for a bunch of completely un-researched reasons.
as someone who fully supported Hillary once she got the nomination, i'd be more curious to see how many Bernie voters did the right thing and voted Hillary in the election.
edit: anecdotal, but all my intelligent American friends [irl and on social media] who were vocal Bernie supporters ALL started campaigning hard for Hillary once she won the nomination.
this is literally the only thing that makes sense to me.
cheezcake
Member
1. There's no evidence to support this.
2. Bernie endorsed Clinton early July, before the primary ended. Clinton had his endorsement AND he was campaigning for her throughout the duration of the general.
3. Bernie attracted a portion of the populist/anti-establishment vote. No matter how much he campaigned for Clinton it is not reasonable to expect him to rewrite the sole political principle this group operates on.
12% is in line with previous elections so I guess you should be upset at Hillary not doing a good enough job at swaying her primary voters to Obama in 2008. This article is clearly written with wording to suggest that this is some kind of extreme number but if people botered to read the whole thing through you'll see that people voting for the other party after their candidate loses in the primaries always happens.
Poodlestrike
Banned
More curious about Sanders primary supporters (not necessarily primary voters) who ultimately failed to vote at all, tbh. Sanders-Trump voters were never voting for Hillary, but people permanently put off from voting for Hillary by the whole "the system is rigged!" stuff Bernie & co. started pushing super hard after it became clear he wasn't winning.
Says right in the OP gents, Sanders is to blame he stirred up enough supporters who were so angry he didn't get the slot that they swung the election to Trump. Ergo, Bernie is at fault.
But feel free to keep worshiping him if you wish. But he's responsible for this and should own it. Back during the primary it was obvious his intentions. He should have shut these supporters down way sooner when it was obvious he wasn't going to win. He didn't and now we're here. So I have every right to blame him all I want. These are his supporters which he failed to control.
curiouscharles
Member
thanks for refuting that embarrassingly biased post with this information.
Bernie did the right thing, RIGHT away.
there's literally no reason to hate the dude, he has no pride to swallow, but did so anyway, and campaigned his fookin arse off to support Hillary [knowing damn well it was the RIGHT thing to do].
i know many of y'all would love to just say "it's Bernie's fault" that Hillary lost, but ultimately it's Hillary's fault Hillary lost - the sooner you accept that, the sooner the Democratic party can start getting the shit together.
El_Tiguere
Member
Boo fucking hoo DNC and Clinton cabal. You can't fuck over a participatory democracy by making the primaries a donor/lobbyist cherry picking fest, and then expect people that were cheated to fall in line for a defunct status quo. At least now we have certified data that Bernie Sanders would have mopped the floor with Trump, especially in the states that mattered. This was evident since the primaries, but donors get what donors want (in this case, an embarrassing tone-deaf loss).
2016 was an indictment on the status quo, and tone-deaf Democrats truly went with a younger female sociopath Henry Kissinger with 30 years of pay to play baggage, an abysmal negative rating (only matched by that orange pervert) , and under FBI investigation. The hubris of these Rockefeller Democrats knows no bounds.
Democrats need to look inward instead of blaming others. it's the way to heal from the fraud of the primaries.
2016 was an indictment on the status quo, and tone-deaf Democrats truly went with a younger female sociopath Henry Kissinger with 30 years of pay to play baggage, an abysmal negative rating (only matched by that orange pervert) , and under FBI investigation. The hubris of these Rockefeller Democrats knows no bounds.
Democrats need to look inward instead of blaming others. it's the way to heal from the fraud of the primaries.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Last moment? Mealy mouthed? His endorsement was only one month later than Clinton endorsed Obama, and Sanders campaigned quite a lot in states that Clinton didn't pay much attention to.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/bernie...campaign-stops-for-hillary-clinton-1475928002
dehydratedbabies
Member
I think you took the term Bernie Bots too literally, lmao.
This is absolute nonsense. Bernie did not tell his supporters to go vote Trump and the VAST majority of them voted Clinton.
It is NOT Bernie's fault than 1 in 10 voted for Trump. Not even slightly. He can't fucking force them to vote for Clinton.
cheezcake
Member
Ask yourself. In what circumstance would these voters have actually gone for Clinton? Do you believe in a world where Sanders doesn't run, these people actually vote for Clinton over Trump?
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Wow, so that coupled with however many didn't vote at all and however many voted third party and that basically accounts for the loss.
curiouscharles
Member
nope, but he sure well fucking tried.
lost a fuckload of respect from his followers in the process.
a true gentleman.
AmayaPapaya
Banned
Historically 1 in 10 doesn't really mean anything, especially in light of that Hillary 08 number. Listen, you are just gonna get those Jon Tron people who liked Sanders, but ended up turning into Trumpsters. If you hate Sanders, I suppose this will help your hate boner, but a statistic like this isn't significant, at all. It won't help in the next election or give us any valuable insight (except, maybe, on defection as a whole). The only significant ones are like the ones in Michigan where Hillary lost Detroit in enough numbers, compared to Obama, to lose the whole state. In the end, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin, were the states that got Trump into office. Trying your hardest to compare Bernie supporters to Trump supporters is just gonna get the 90% that stayed mad, and hurt us in the end.
You should try reading the actual article instead of just the choice quotes from the OP. The margins were so thin that blaming a percent of a percent of primary voters for the entire election loss is maddness, and the percent that switched parties from primary to election was in line with previous elections. The extreme blowback that Burnie supporters are still receiving is crazy, especially in a thread about a survey that says that there was no out of the ordinary resistance from Burnie supporters towards supporting Clinton if compared to historical data.
CloudyTuba
Member
Exactly. Sanders himself begged people to vote Hillary during the election. There are always going to be swingers in every election, and this is just about how much you'd expect anyway (maybe even a little less). There will always be a portion of voters who don't actually understand their candidates platform, or support them for their own outside reasons. 12% is fairly good performance.
People just love to finger-point at Bernie, especially on gaf. The berniebro talk is tired bullshit that some people still desperately cling to because blaming is easier.
Haha
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Eh, you can't blame Sanders for the actions of those who claim to support him when they do something as extreme as flipping for Trump. It shows they weren't really about Sanders in the first place.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
They're not dogs you know?
You don't control your supporters, the best you can do is advise them on what you think they should do, which Bernie obviously did.
Also as I said before you can point to plenty of people to assign blame:
-People who didn't vote
-People who voted 3rd Party
-People who voted Trump
-People who enable gerryandering
-The Electoral College system
That's still won't change anything so I don't really understand your choice of putting the whole blame on Bernie Sanders here.
Acerac
Banned
Huh. That's fascinating.
...
Let's all shit on Bernie and his supporters anyways! Emotions are way more fun than logic, after all.
dragonelite
Member
As an EU outsider, yeah Bernie felt like a breath of fresh air in US politics.
After the primary with Hillary being kinda boring i can understand why some stayed home and not vote.
And can kinda understand why some did their duty as a citizen and put in a protest vote.
Kinda the weakness of a two party system(i know there are more irrelevant parties) its either team A or team B.
El_Tiguere
Member
They were about changing course from our defunct corporate state (co-facilitated by Democrats for over 40 years).
Conciliator
Banned
we can do the blame game forever(and obviously have, and I guess are going to), but it's kind of like whiffing the last 2 pointer in a basketball game. Everyone can rush the guy and tell him about how it's all his fault we lost, but a whole lot of other shit could have happened differently. A whole lot. And if whomever whiffed the 2 pointer at the end is not your villain of choice, you can always double back to person who wasn't in position on D or fouled some body or fuck I don't really know basketball, but you guys catch my drift. And we can fuckin do this literally forever if we wanted to. We could never stop talking about it and never stop finding ways it could have gone differently.
28% of clinton voters were racist just like 10% of bernie supporters are sexist (or conspiracy theorists).
Let's be honest: anyone who voted for Trump instead of Hillary after being a die hard Bernie supporter either a) was completely uninformed on the issues and was simply a fanboy of Bernie as a person or b) had other more depressing "reasons" that would make them fit right in on The_Donald.
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