Going to the expense of launching in those countries with a tiny amount of consoles doesn't seem very cost effective.
150Mhz CPU boost on XBO, now in production
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Going to the expense of launching in those countries with a tiny amount of consoles doesn't seem very cost effective.
Regardless, they will still launch on the country that the other company doesn't launch in. Even if they get 1k allocation in lower tier countries, the adoption rate of the console will just increase from that point forward especially when the competition are months behind. The more people get their hands on the console, the better for Sony given they can deliver. Word of mouth is either the most powerful or damaging advertising you can get at no cost.
Been over this twenty times in thsi thread already
Not nearly the same type of processor that xbone has, which relieves a lot of the processing that ps4 will need to do on cpu/gpu which xbone can do on dedicated chip in hardware instead of aoftware
Also been noted twenty times how much relief that gives to system will be game by game and up to devs, remains to be seen how next gen audio will shake out
Sony will just deliver to stores in a 2km radius around:
Treriksröset
Vaalserberg
Dreiländereck
Mont Dolent
Hohenau an der March
That way they only have to deliver to 5 places, but can win the list war by having 11 countries checked off.
I kept up to date with this thread last night up to about page 20, So got back at about 37 so missed a fair bit of reading, cheers
- I guess I will have to get a quick look back through.Interested how we know "how powerful" both the ps4 + x1 chips are to compare them. -
edit: Xbox have highly customized their Jaguar cores which have separate chips to process the audio. Most of which is to handle the HDMI IN for the cable box etc, thats why it requires such a powerful custom chip.
As far as reading through what Mark cerny said :
Mark Cerny: "There's dedicated audio hardware. The principal thing that it does is that it compresses and decompresses audio streams, various formats. So some of that is for the games - you'll have many, many audio streams in MP3 or another format and the hardware will take care of that for you. Or, on the system side for example, audio chat - the compression and decompression of that." - This will handle most of the general audio
The bit that seems to be causing the chit chat, as stating that standard audio needs to be done on the GPU, well I read it as its an ADDED bonus because of the "type" of audio its doings, since its INGAME interactively related.
The audio raycasting etc - which surely cant be put in the same conversation as general sound audio:
Mark Cerny: So the GPU is a natural place to do a number of different types of audio processing. It really does come down though to the amount of parallelisation that is natural to perform for that algorithm, and that does vary greatly depending on what you are doing specifically in your audio processing. I think that as you go forward we will see a hybrid approach in a couple of years where certain aspects of the audio are being done on GPU.
Digital Foundry: Referring to your presentation you were talking about audio ray-casting... As I understand the idea, you're simulating what happens to soundwaves when they hit a particular material...
Mark Cerny: Actually the audio ray-casting I was talking about it much simpler. We'll cast rays to see if you can shoot something. You really need to know because it affects the reticule. It'll be a different colour if you can shoot an enemy or not shoot an enemy. For audio, you need to check whether you can hear a source or not. Many games cast a couple of hundred rays. It's actually quite time-consuming to do those calculations and it turns out to be a pretty natural fit for the GPU. You can take your couple of hundred rays, have them processed in bundles of 64 on the GPU and then the game designers get to make up new and more creative ways to use that ray-casting.
Conclusion: The ps4 is fully capable of doing most of its standard audio completely free of any CPU/GPU overheads, however if the game developers want to use special next gen audio features described above the GPU is available for that compute.
It is, since they must have the guy below working for them squeezing out every little bit she has in her.
But, I don't think she can take much more of this.
theviolenthero
Member
Nintendo announced the Wii U European launch month and it was delayed.
Sony announced the PS3 launch month and it was delayed.
Microsoft announces 21 regions for the XB1 launch and 8 of those get delayed.
My response was to point out that companies have always announced launch plans & they almost always delay launching in those same regions.
According to what I can find there as no delay for the European launch. It launched in the same month as in NA and the launch date was speculated since September to be the 29th of November, which it ended up being.
And they got shit for it on GAF.
I dont know about calling it "always" if the last other example is the PS3.
hahaahhahah 10
I kept up to date with this thread last night up to about page 20, So got back at about 37 so missed a fair bit of reading, cheers
Interested how we know "how powerful" both the ps4 + x1 chips are to compare them. -
edit: Xbox have highly customized their Jaguar cores which have separate chips to process the audio. Most of which is to handle the HDMI IN for the cable box etc, thats why it requires such a powerful custom chip.
As far as reading through what Mark cerny said :
Mark Cerny: "There's dedicated audio hardware. The principal thing that it does is that it compresses and decompresses audio streams, various formats. So some of that is for the games - you'll have many, many audio streams in MP3 or another format and the hardware will take care of that for you. Or, on the system side for example, audio chat - the compression and decompression of that." - This will handle most of the general audio
The bit that seems to be causing the chit chat, as stating that standard audio needs to be done on the GPU, well I read it as its an ADDED bonus because of the "type" of audio its doings, since its INGAME interactively related.
The audio raycasting etc - which surely cant be put in the same conversation as general sound audio:
Mark Cerny: So the GPU is a natural place to do a number of different types of audio processing. It really does come down though to the amount of parallelisation that is natural to perform for that algorithm, and that does vary greatly depending on what you are doing specifically in your audio processing. I think that as you go forward we will see a hybrid approach in a couple of years where certain aspects of the audio are being done on GPU.
Digital Foundry: Referring to your presentation you were talking about audio ray-casting... As I understand the idea, you're simulating what happens to soundwaves when they hit a particular material...
Mark Cerny: Actually the audio ray-casting I was talking about it much simpler. We'll cast rays to see if you can shoot something. You really need to know because it affects the reticule. It'll be a different colour if you can shoot an enemy or not shoot an enemy. For audio, you need to check whether you can hear a source or not. Many games cast a couple of hundred rays. It's actually quite time-consuming to do those calculations and it turns out to be a pretty natural fit for the GPU. You can take your couple of hundred rays, have them processed in bundles of 64 on the GPU and then the game designers get to make up new and more creative ways to use that ray-casting.
Conclusion: The ps4 is fully capable of doing most of its standard audio completely free of any CPU/GPU overheads, however if the game developers want to use special next gen audio features described above the GPU is available for that compute.
just no....sorry a game dosnt need just compression and decompression of mp3 files (or other formats) so ..no your conclusion is clearly wrong...and if u need something like turn10 is doing with forza 5 procedural audio....you need on the ps4 cpu or cu's to do it for you ...and im sure PD will follow turn10 with their gt ...taking resources from there
I added Mark Cernys quotes in my previous post, he didn't say 'only mp3' he says, various formats, many audio streams, mp3 or other formats.
Fair enough there isn't a huge amount of detail but there's a decent amount, I don't know how we can extrapolate mp3 only from that conversation..it seems to be a half decent chip. Hopefully we will find out more in due time.
Mark Cerny: "There's dedicated audio hardware. The principal thing that it does is that it compresses and decompresses audio streams, various formats. So some of that is for the games - you'll have many, many audio streams in MP3 or another format and the hardware will take care of that for you. Or, on the system side for example, audio chat - the compression and decompression of that." - This will handle most of the general audio
ok lets put in this way from what we know and i understand
ps4 have that "xma decoder".typo .all the other things if possible need to be done taking resources
Chobel
Member
ok lets put in this way from what we know and i understand
ps4 have that "xma decoder".typo .all the other things if possible need to be done taking resources
َAre you sure about the last part?
Miles Quaritch
Member
We need gifs.
till cerny dont talk about it (and i dont think he will do)..i suppose ..it is like this
Chobel
Member
Then you don't know, you're just speculating.
Also, if it's true and PS4 don't have the "other things", you can always use GPGPU to do it.
And no it won't affect graphics, from this article http://gamingbolt.com/mark-cerny-ps4-gpu-features-significant-customisation-explains-compute-process
EDIT: Worst case scenario, advanced audio processing is bad for graphics/gameplay unlike Xbox, the developer will just ignore those advanced effects and use the normal effects that can be done with PS4 audio DSP.
Cloud vs. GPGPU deathmatch, the fight for unlimited next gen power.
Chobel
Member
Cloud wins, Infinite is always better.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Well, in fairness, we simply don't have the level of detail on that chip as we do for the Xbox One audio block, and so we also have very little evidence to support whether the PS4 audio chip is anywhere quite as capable as what's inside the Xbox One.
For just audio related tasks alone, the Xbox One has the following:
- Control DSP Core
- Scalar DSP Core
- Vector DSP Core
- Vector DSP Core
And then there's
- Scalable Hardware Audio Processing Engine (SHAPE)
And then inside SHAPE is 6 dedicated fixed function blocks focused on common audio tasks.
1. XMA Decoder
2. Sample Rate Converter
3. Mix Buffers
4. Equalization, Dynamic Range Compression
5. Filter & Volume Processor
6. DMA
Even without knowing with this much detail what kind of audio hardware the PS4 has, I think, combined with the upclock of the CPU, it's quite clear that the Xbox One will more than likely have a clear advantage in the CPU department, and this was likely to be true even if both CPUs were running at the exact same speed. That isn't an attempt to downplay the PS4 though, because the GPUs are without a doubt the most important parts of these two systems, and the PS4 will have a clear advantage in that area.
How old are You, 8 ?
Even though people are going to jump on you based on your post history, what you've stated here is correct.
SwiftDeath
Member
I'm sure this has been answered to death
But where is the kinect audio processing needs handled?
Is there dedicated silicon built into the kinect or it offloaded to somewhere on the box?
But where is the kinect audio processing needs handled?
Is there dedicated silicon built into the kinect or it offloaded to somewhere on the box?
I thought this was the whole point of the audio block?
from what i read yes and is out from the shape block
?!?!?! wtf !?!
Proelite
Member
It's 100% fact that PS4 audio chip doesn't share the same capabilities as the Xbox One's audio chip. That's all we know for now.
dragonelite
Member
Didn't they put that Hymix factory on fire with the upclock?
amstradcpc
Member
Because is nothing out this world, a mere mp3 decoder.ERP in B3D already said PS4 would need more cpu resources than XB1 for audio.
If something is not advertised is because is worse than whatever the competitor has.Another example is the cpu clock of PS4,there is not news because is not hifher than the 1,75 of XB1.
ps4 pre order cancelled.
In all fairness, this has been done before. Audio is least of devs's troubles for vast majority of games. It never was, will never be.
Hence, no need to put an extra super-duper chips to enhance audio, when 95% of audience receives stereo sound via TV speakers.
With PS3 and X360 no dedicated hardware existed, and main differentiation point was the storage, resulting in PS3 games supporting DTS HD etc and X360 poorer equivalents in most games. But to be honest, even X360 sound quality was more than enough.
To sum up, audio chip doesn't make any difference, sound will be good enough for both machines and audio will not steal much juice from CPU. Differentiation point lies somewhere else.
Step back, take a deep breath and read your posts. Or ask somebody to do it so that You can hear what they say.
Again:
Cerny said thats only one of the functions and now Eurogamer says that is the only.
amstradcpc
Member
Then Sony has a problem of communication.
SwiftDeath
Member
That was my original interpretation as well
Kinect audio processing has to be done somewhere and will certainly require specific silicon
That audio block makes sense if it powers the kinect
Otherwise seems a bit overkill for a console
Obviously it's much better for everyone if kinect's audio processing is handled on a separate dedicated chip though
lol, how does that work? Cerny was quite specific about it, we all ready know Eurogamer can't hear properly after the seven/several fiasco.
The most funny part is that was in a Eurogamer interview with Cerny.
And today Digital Foundry comes with:
SenjutsuSage
Banned
LOL they can pole vault over my head for all I care. My post history, love it or hate it, has been consistent with someone who has always maintained that the Xbox One hardware is precisely what it is, that MS wasn't secretly hiding some extra GPU somewhere, and that I felt the console was more than powerful enough to handle impressive looking next gen games with the specs exactly as presented in VGleaks. My post history is also consistent with a person who has always said, in no uncertain terms, that the PS4 was the stronger of the two consoles. Where the problem comes in is that I haven't been as down on the performance capabilities of the Xbox One as some feel I should be despite the numbers on paper, which clearly identify the PS4 as the obviously more powerful of the two machines.
I've been very consistent on such things, but I've also been quite consistent in stating, and will remain so, that anybody expecting the Xbox One to be a weak machine, will be sorely disappointed.
Chobel
Member
You seem to trust this ERP guy. Who is he?
dragonelite
Member
The power brick does seems rather large they could hide an volcano in there..
Isn't he an sony dev on B3D?
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Sony First Party Game Developer. But a lot of people on GAF, who don't seem to know who he is, treat him as some random forum warrior who doesn't know what he's talking about.
LOL.
amstradcpc
Member
A Sony developer.
CadetMahoney
Member
This is indeed a wrong.
amstradcpc
Member
Richard Leadbetter ears point to Redmond.
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