I guess this would be relevant if the economy was composed entirely of nurses.
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200k a year families claim they are "not rich"
- Thread starter Liberty4all
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I guess this would be relevant if the economy was composed entirely of nurses.
Skel1ingt0n
I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
Wow. Took the words right out of my mouth.
Fantastic reply.
My family of three scrape by on about $30K/year. That's one hundred and seventy thousand dollars less than these people. And we still have a decent house. We have decent utilites, a good computer, and okay furniture. Sure, my mom doesn't own a car and we don't go on vacations... but I'm sure with another $20K a year we'd be fine. To make four times that?! Yes, you're rich.
Not filthy rich. But you have to worry about *nothing* in regards to finances, yet drop $50K+ a year on pure luxuries. That, imo, is the definition of wealth. And for what it's worth, I'm a conservative and I come from a family that leans heavily to the right.
Marty Chinn
Member
In CA, you can't even rent an apartment with a 30K income let alone own a house. Why is this so hard to understand?
Houston3000
Member
Personally, I buy lunch every day at work, albeit I telecommute one day a week so that's about $136 a month for lunch ($8.50 x 16). I'm super lazy in the kitchen so buy dinner on average probably 3 days a week so that's roughly the same at another $138 a month ($11.50 x 12) ~ that's actually way over-calculating because I often times get subway for like $6 but for the sake of argument... Sometimes I run out of breakfast at home and pick up something on my way into work, maybe four times a month so that's only like $20 or so. Since I eat out so much my grocery bills are relatively low (just looked at my last receipt and it was $23)... maybe three times a month so $70. $365 and I have a really bad habit of going out to restaurants a few times a month. Especially during months where I'm dating a lot of girls. That usually means a couple $100 bills with a few more $50-$70.
With those admittedly terrible eating habits I can barely scrape up $500 per month for food by myself.
I just feel like they're living beyond their means. With those kinds of expenses, living paycheck to paycheck, and paying rent, they're certainly not set up for retirement.
Being rich will vary from region to region, why is that so hard to understand? Look at their discretionary spending.
Marty Chinn
Member
Pretty much this. Just because they're spending unwisely doesn't mean they're rich. It's already known that people spend beyond their means in general regardless of their income. Why should we equate poor spending habits to being rich?
I agree with that and that's my point. 200K doesn't exactly mean you're rich.
Edit: Also why is nobody reading the article? The expenses everyone is quoting is a single person earning 165k. That's different than family with a 200k income. People are acting like 200k for a family is rich.
Liberty4all
Banned
My wife and I spend about 300 a month on food for the 2 of us ... Mostly meat, chicken, fish and veg from Costco. Costco is SO much cheaper than loblaws ... Like 3 times less.
I will say though that food is more expensive in Canada than the states ... Significantly more.
I will say though that food is more expensive in Canada than the states ... Significantly more.
Jim E. Rossler
Banned
In CA as a whole? or only in the cool urban cities like LA, Sacremento, San Francisco, etc where everyone wants to live?
According to Fenix Dennis, the self made British multi-millionaire, these guys aren't even 'comfortably poor'.
-- The Dennis Scale of wealth
Haha.
Seriously, though. These people have lost sight of how comfortable their lives are. Everyone does it. I'm living in a Third World Country where people have really fucked up lives but I have to listen to my Mother complain about the most trivial shit happening back home in England and how bad her life is as a result. Truth is - she has things so easy but she's become complacent and forgotten just how good life is her for.
It's human nature to want more and more. We constantly look at our neighbours with jealousy and scream out for more while being bombarded with marketing telling us that we need more useless shit to fill that empty void in our lives. As a result, we convince ourselves that our lives suck and take all our luxuries for granted. This isn't going to change any time soon.
-- The Dennis Scale of wealth
Haha.
Seriously, though. These people have lost sight of how comfortable their lives are. Everyone does it. I'm living in a Third World Country where people have really fucked up lives but I have to listen to my Mother complain about the most trivial shit happening back home in England and how bad her life is as a result. Truth is - she has things so easy but she's become complacent and forgotten just how good life is her for.
It's human nature to want more and more. We constantly look at our neighbours with jealousy and scream out for more while being bombarded with marketing telling us that we need more useless shit to fill that empty void in our lives. As a result, we convince ourselves that our lives suck and take all our luxuries for granted. This isn't going to change any time soon.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
My sister somehow does it. No idea how much she spends in rent, but she is able to pay it with a similar income.
I know several people who make that kind of money and none of them are 'rich'. All of them own a house, with maybe a car payment. Then they have some retirement and college funds and thats it... the leftovers aren't much to be honest. By 'know' I mean, 4 family members and several friends and that kind of income while it seems crazy awesome and hard to achieve doesn't buy you much out here. 150-250k out here is middle class living.
Southern California.
Everyone else out here rents, most familes < 150K combined are renting and do not own homes (and never, ever will). Families out here that do own homes under that income have been homeowners for 20-25+ years or live in shitty ass neighborhoods not worth raising kids in. I know 3 guys who are over 30 living at home, all work.
Southern California.
Everyone else out here rents, most familes < 150K combined are renting and do not own homes (and never, ever will). Families out here that do own homes under that income have been homeowners for 20-25+ years or live in shitty ass neighborhoods not worth raising kids in. I know 3 guys who are over 30 living at home, all work.
I'm sure the Inland Empire is just full of people that "can't even rent an apartment with a 30K income let alone own a house."
travisbickle
Member
And these are families that make around 200K.
As mentioned, less than 5% of the population make a figure of near 200K, are we really discussing that in the richest country in the world less than 5% of the population can be considered rich?...I think it's time to go back to the drawingboard on capitalism.
Oh, well if that's true then I pretty much recant all of my prior posts in this thread. I read the excerpts the OP bolded and attributed the wine spending to the 200k income family.
Are these the same people who took pay cuts because they didn't understand how taxes worked?
Well that's why they're not rich!
I thought he was talking about Canada like the article. Dueling abbreviations.
No one is making a good case for why they shouldn't be considered rich. What could you possibly be lacking if you had that much money a year? Why is the definition of rich - "Have so much money you wipe your butt with it?"
It's crazy how much society has influenced you guys to believe that even $200k isn't "enough." What a joke.
It's crazy how much society has influenced you guys to believe that even $200k isn't "enough." What a joke.
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
...so let me get this straight your smart enough to earn 200k a year before taxes obviously....but not smart enough to budget enough to turn that into a mil? I mean yeah as far as what you need(food , clothes, housing, transportation)..200k a year is RICH , but what could be had, no its not. But still 200k and struggling? I would live below my means and save the excess for the future and the kids then. I mean shit if you cant live "upper middle lower class" or whatever bullshit category people in this bracket are making up today, then do the smart thing and stack your money. Whats the point of struggling to appear to be something your not, while all the while having the money to provide for all your needs? That makes no sense.
So make a fucking choice, leave behind the faux category of upper middle class in the past, go on down to the middle class, and stack your chips, put your money to work in financial markets perhaps. Otherwise fools and their money are quickly departed.
So make a fucking choice, leave behind the faux category of upper middle class in the past, go on down to the middle class, and stack your chips, put your money to work in financial markets perhaps. Otherwise fools and their money are quickly departed.
brucewaynegretzky
Member
Who said it wasn't enough? Rich and "enough" are too different things, no?
Yes 2 of them, 1 is a CPA. And no you don't really have any insight to their tax situation or income, but please... assume away.
Marty Chinn
Member
I'll admit I'm comfortable and not living paycheck to paycheck, but I don't consider myself rich at all. I have to live within a budget. I can't spend money on whatever I want. Having a kid can be pretty damn expensive. Just because I'm not living in poverty, going into debt, and living paycheck to paycheck doesn't automatically make me rich.
Jim E. Rossler
Banned
I think I remember that thread, it's when I learned Tax is progressive and that said rate ONLY affects dollars earned in matching bracket
But it's ok that I only just learned that since I make <8k a year and I'm still young.
Aha, I missed a crucial point in my story. We qualified for the apartment for one year because our total income at that point was like 27 thousand dollars. My mother was the only one working and my sister was just about graduated from UCLA and was looking for a job. So we qualified for the apartment and we signed the one year contract and moved in. Three months in, my sister got a job at a law firm and her income was 45k a year (keep in mind that these figures are all before taxes and that our federal tax rate alone is 35% and we live in California so our state taxes are also high and so is CA sales tax). Now we have a 70k income on paper and for a while I was working at the university as a teacher's aide (for a semester, then I had to quit because it conflicted with my class schedule for the following semester). So our total income as of now is like 70k, and when our contract ends in a few months we'll either have to move or sign on as a medium income family. Our rent will increase to 1200 a month which we can afford.
Sorry I forgot this detail. But something you should know is that after all the taxes that my sister pays and after her measly 401k month contribution (like 70 bucks), she basically makes 24k a year. My mom retains her 25k income because I'm still counted as a dependent under her name and that's a tax exemption. I'm basically the freeloader in my family for now.
I would love to move to Canada, though. I'm tired of America. I don't like the fact that people like Rick Santorum have a following in this country.
They assume because you have repeatedly brought your relatives up as examples against the increased taxation of the rich. Yet you have never responded when people press you for an explanation to this ridiculous story of taking pay cuts to avoid "making less money" in a progressive tax system. If you don't want them to assume, maybe you should do a better job of explaining.
Marty Chinn
Member
But let's face it, you got in on some program that you qualified at the time, but don't now. Had you been paying the real rent, your sister's complete income would have gone to rent. Think about that. Every penny she got went to rent and there's nothing left over for food, and other essential living expenses, not to mention not saving much at all for retirement. That 1200 a month difference is a huge difference that shouldn't be taken lightly on being able to survive on 70k.
I have a child as well. I make about $30,000 and if I really thought about it, regardless of how much we can struggle at times, there is nothing my wife, my child, or I am lacking. I would absolutely consider myself rich if I were making 200k a year.
If you still live paycheck to paycheck making that much, you are a fool.
Marty Chinn
Member
What are you monthly expenses for the child? Are you putting money away for her college? Do you have to pay for daycare? Daycare is a huge expense with a kid. It's been a huge impact on us.
I agree if you're living paycheck to paycheck at 200k, that maybe you need to reevaluate some of your expenses, but not living paycheck to paycheck doesn't mean you're rich.
Cause that is what rich means?
Comfortable is not rich. Well off is not rich. Paying your bills on time and saving a few bucks a month is not rich.
These people are on the upper end of middle class.
I know a few rich people. I went to photograph some guys cars for a album his wife wanted to give him for Christmas. She didn't even know how many cars he owned. He had six at his "house" that used to be a country club, 2 at his lake house, and 2 in the shop being restored. In addition to his and her "daily drivers", aka brand new AMG Mercedes.
This dude was rich.
This
travisbickle
Member
Over 95% of the American population earn less than you, if you're not rich, what are you?
There shouldn't really be a set example on what's rich and what isn't in my opinion. What's rich to one person can be different from another based on their upbringing and/or how they currently live.
Marty Chinn
Member
A good chunk of those people don't live in CA either. Why are you comparing my cost of living with their cost of living?
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
What percentage of families in Cali make 200k or more?
Marty Chinn
Member
I know it's not even the top 10%.
Jim E. Rossler
Banned
Wiki says richest 3% in Cali make over 200K
So the top 5% cutoff is definitely around there. His point still stands.
Yeah, I don't care what anyone says... 200K in Toronto is more than enough, unless you decide to have a bunch of luxury cars and live in the downtown core. I live 30 minutes away from the downtown core (by subway), and my family is living more than comfortably with a household income of half or even under half of that.
200K and not rich... bullshit.
200K and not rich... bullshit.
My wife stays home with our child. We aren't saving for college yet. I'm getting a boost to our income with a higher salary at a new position I'm starting in April, and we'll also be unloading a couple large debts in the next six months. Im imagining the extra income and I still don't know what to do yet, besides start saving more.
I know that daycare can be incredibly expensive. Would it be worth it for one of you to quit your job and get to spend more time with your child? The benefits of two incomes can be vastly neutered by paying for childcare.
I know dude.
Even with 70k living here won't be easy. Once I get job our annual income before taxes will hopefully exceed 100k, but the taxes are crazy. I feel angry knowing that there are people who make millions of dollars in stock trading and have incredibly low capital gains taxes to worry about, whereas the working poor losing upwards of 35 percent of their income. But no, let's not punish our job creators. /s
travisbickle
Member
So you live in one of the richest states, within the richest country, surrounded by the rich and all the benefits that brings (great infrastructure, public transport, parks, schools etc...) but you're not rich?
This is not true.
Marty Chinn
Member
It's relative isn't it? Rich is about what your money can do for you. If you live in a place where rent costs $2000 vs $1000, someone who makes $24000 compared to $12000 both end up having $0 at the end of the day right? Is the person who makes $24000 rich because they make more but still end up with $0 in the end? No. Higher living costs means you need to make more money in order to be comparable to someone who makes less money but has a lower living cost.
We've talked about it, and we do come out slightly ahead financially by us both working and we also realized that having a significant gap in working now would hurt us in the long run because gaps in work is usually frowned upon. You'll get behind. So while we would love to stay home and take care of her, that would be short sighted on us. But, the daycare expense is huge and it is something we discussed at length.
Let me ask this, is the fact that I do have to pay for daycare, and I'm fortunate enough to not live in debt, and able to save aside some money for her college and our retirement suddenly makes me rich? It's not like we have a ton of disposal income in our hands. So it's great that you're able to get by on 30k, and your family is happy, but look at the difference on how we've devoted our funds.
Like I said before, we're comfortable, but I don't consider us rich.
That can't be right. How is it where the average wage is higher in CA, somehow 200k puts you in a higher percentage than the rest of the US? I know that's not right because I saw a chart a couple months ago and checked it out.
Liberty4all
Banned
Added 2 more "budgets" to the op (both 200k family of four budgets) and clarified the single 166k guy
Trent Strong
Banned
Immigration?
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