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[Particle Physicist]

I consider us to be well-off, but certainly not rich.

From the tone of your post, I thought you were trying to say that you were barely making it. So that is completely different. I agree that a family of 4 with an income of 200k is well off, but not necessarily "rich." Though the guy quoted in the OP is spending $800 a month on just wine alone, all the while complaining about not being rich.

 

[Mr.Squirrel]

Depends on everyone's definition, but i don't think 200k is even remotely rich. Upper middle class yeah, but no where near rich.

 

[Particle Physicist]

why are people being so willfully ignorant in this thread? If the people interviewed had only mentioned their 200k income, where they live, and the number of people in their family, then sure, you guys could openly speculate about their comfort levels, and wonder whether they should be considered wealthy or not.

BUT they told you they spend 800 bucks a month on WINE. That they spend 10,000 bucks a year on TRAVEL, that they spend 1000 bucks a month on CLOTHING. That they go to Vegas 4 times a year.

They are blowing tens of thousands of dollars a year on LUXURIES. Therefore, they are rich. That's it.

Are they super rich? No. But the amount of money they spend every year on bullshit can be put away for a few years and pay off college tuition to expensive universities or cover the cost of healthcare (oh wait, they live in CANADA!). Fuck, I know there are a few people here trying to rationalize that 200k is not rich because perhaps they lived under a similar income situation, but the facts are abundantly clear. $9,600 a year on wine cements it.

These people don't consider themselves rich because they're irresponsible idiots who blow through their incomes without considering the future.

Just didn't want this lost in the previous page. This is exactly right. It does depend on their situation, but as you pointed out, these guys clearly are not scraping by.

 

[Jim E. Rossler]

You're not RICH if you cant pay off a High Ranking Federal Government politician
That's the standard.

 

[Houston3000]

Level of comfort is such a weird thing. I make just over $51k right now at my job living in New York City (just got a 9% CoL-raise)... I'm up for a promotion in April which should net me at least a 10% or 15% increase. If I'm extraordinarily lucky with my yearly raise I should be making close to $60k by this time next year. Right now I'm paying down some old credit card debt month by month and should be finished paying everything down by mid next year. The thing is, that has me super excited. Calculating this in my head, year over year, I'll be making over $11k/year more than I was, that's a good $700 a month more plus with my debt paid down I can add another $300+ a month that I won't be paying in debt. I'm not even living paycheck to paycheck right now, I make enough to obviously pay off my debts, pay my bills, and even keep myself entertained, then I have a few thousand in savings that I'll eventually start padding when my Credit Card debt is gone. Only $1,000 extra per month though and I feel like I'll be in crazy good shape. I can't even imagine the extra comforts I'll be able to afford and honestly, I probably won't even indulge knowing myself. My savings will just continually get padded.

$200k for a single man, no matter where you live is absolutely ludicrous. I won't even try to wrap my head around it.

 

[TheExodu5]

$200k for a single man, no matter where you live is absolutely ludicrous. I won't even try to wrap my head around it.

It's not for a single man. It's for a family of 4.

It's really not that ludicrous of a salary. I work at the Canada Revenue agency and when I get a promotion to either team lead or IT specialist (really not that difficult if you put a bit of effort in) I would be making out at around $94K salary right now. That would put me at almost the same income level, and I live in a cheaper area. This is a job that you realistically only need a 2 year college degree for (even though I have a Computer Engineering degree).

 

[Jim E. Rossler]

Level of comfort is such a weird thing. I make just over $51k right now at my job living in New York City (just got a 9% CoL-raise)... I'm up for a promotion in April which should net me at least a 10% or 15% increase. If I'm extraordinarily lucky with my yearly raise I should be making close to $60k by this time next year. Right now I'm paying down some old credit card debt month by month and should be finished paying everything down by mid next year. The thing is, that has me super excited. Calculating this in my head, year over year, I'll be making over $11k/year more than I was, that's a good $700 a month more plus with my debt paid down I can add another $300+ a month that I won't be paying in debt. I'm not even living paycheck to paycheck right now, I make enough to obviously pay off my debts, pay my bills, and even keep myself entertained, then I have a few thousand in savings that I'll eventually start padding when my Credit Card debt is gone. Only $1,000 extra per month though and I feel like I'll be in crazy good shape. I can't even imagine the extra comforts I'll be able to afford and honestly, I probably won't even indulge knowing myself. My savings will just continually get padded.

$200k for a single man, no matter where you live is absolutely ludicrous. I won't even try to wrap my head around it.

It doesn't matter how much you make. All you have to do is move somewhere so that %70 of your salary is living costs. Then you're automatically not rich.
If you make 5 mil a year, just go build a house in Antarctica, and cite living expenses as to why you're middle class.

 

[Marty Chinn]

why are people being so willfully ignorant in this thread? If the people interviewed had only mentioned their 200k income, where they live, and the number of people in their family, then sure, you guys could openly speculate about their comfort levels, and wonder whether they should be considered wealthy or not.

BUT they told you they spend 800 bucks a month on WINE. That they spend 10,000 bucks a year on TRAVEL, that they spend 1000 bucks a month on CLOTHING. That they go to Vegas 4 times a year.

They are blowing tens of thousands of dollars a year on LUXURIES. Therefore, they are rich. That's it.

Are they super rich? No. But the amount of money they spend every year on bullshit can be put away for a few years and pay off college tuition to expensive universities or cover the cost of healthcare (oh wait, they live in CANADA!). Fuck, I know there are a few people here trying to rationalize that 200k is not rich because perhaps they lived under a similar income situation, but the facts are abundantly clear. $9,600 a year on wine cements it.

These people don't consider themselves rich because they're irresponsible idiots who blow through their incomes without considering the future.

They are blowing money but that doesn't mean they're rich. Hell people spend irresponsibly on things they can't afford even when they are poor. Their spending habits shouldn't exactly dictate if they are rich or not.

Look at the other guy's post here who breaks down his 195k income. It really comes down to two factors; how many people in your family, and where you live. Those two factors alone dramatically affect what 200k gets you.

I most certainly don't consider myself rich. I have to live within a budget. I also put away for retirement. Am I not living paycheck to paycheck? Sure. Do I have emergency money saved in case of something shitty happening? Sure. But that doesn't mean I'm rich. I'm middle class and have to watch what I spend money on each month. I think a lot of people here don't realize how expensive kids can be.

 

[Mr.Squirrel]

What neighborhoods do you consider a decent in NY? I thought all the cool kids were moving to Brooklyn anyways.

Brooklyn is still mad expensive, i grew up there. i was thinking of moving back, and apartments in park slope were like 2 grand easy b.

 

[BobLoblaw]

What?

Lol! I was just catching up on this thread and when I got to his post I thought I had fallen asleep and started seeing things. Wow

 

[Flo_Evans]

Rich is buying your housewife cars for her birthday not leasing a civic and wasting a few hundred a month pretending to be a wine snob.

 

[Divvy]

So I just realized, the family in the op that everyone is ripping a new one doesn't make 200k. They make 166k. Good job op.

 

[staticneuron]

In this thread it seems like you're either poor or you're rich. There is no middle ground. Since when did wealth become black and white?

I consider us to be well-off, but certainly not rich.

If I didn't have kids, then I might feel rich, and my kids are all pretty young and they just get more expensive as they get older.

I certainly can't afford to make it rain down at the local titty bar, or drive $50,000 vehicles, or hop on a plane and go anywhere in the world we feel like going. We take a family vacation every couple of years and its somewhere usually within a day's driving distance because air fare and vehicle rental are so expensive when you take an entire family. Lets say you budget $5,000 for your entire family vacation, but if you fly and then have to rent a family vehicle when you get there - half that budget is gone just for those 2 things.

The reason people are so divided over this is because of perspective. To people barely making it, being rich is the ability to pay your bills, but away money for savings AND still have enough for travel and to be able to spend on concerts and wine.

To other people, they either have been living this way so long or never was at the crunch line so to them, having this money is well off and "rich" is a different metric. They feel only the really wealthy can be considered rich.

If somebody that can comfortably afford to hire a maid can't see why people point fingers at them instead of trump, then simply there is a block on perspective there.

 

[TheExodu5]

Note that a registered nurse in Ontario would have a salary of roughly $90K if they've got some seniority. Two people making that kind of money would have a higher income than the family described in the OP.

Would you consider a nurse rich?

 

[Jim E. Rossler]

Note that a registered nurse in Ontario would have a salary of roughly $90K if they've got some seniority. Two people making that kind of money would have a higher income than the family described in the OP.

Would you consider a nurse rich?

Database Admin's make more than that.
Would you consider a 'Computer Nerd' Rich?

 

[Sobriquet]

So I just realized, the family in the op that everyone is ripping a new one doesn't make 200k. They make 166k. Good job op.

It's a single guy who makes 165k.

 

[travisbickle]

Note that a registered nurse in Ontario would have a salary of roughly $90K if they've got some seniority. Two people making that kind of money would have a higher income than the family described in the OP.

Would you consider a nurse rich?

I would consider a combined income of 180K rich. What percentage of the population has a household income on or above that? 5%? Are you saying that less than 5% of the population of the US are rich? I'd consider ending capitalism if it can't even provide 5% of the population with enough wealth to be considered rich!

 

[Liberty4all]

Here is a family of four budget 200k salary from that article:




HOW THEY SPEND IT
Monthly expenses | Mortgage payment for a three-bedroom house: $2,500. Utilities: $500. Gas for their Jeep Commander and Ford F-150 truck: $440. (“The Jeep was a mistake. We shouldn’t have bought it; we could have used the extra money for travel.”) Street parking and two parking permits: $200. Home and car insurance: $300. Cleaning lady: $160. Groceries: $1,000. (“We like Whole Foods and try to eat organic as much as we can. We love the new Leslieville store Hooked for fish. For everything else, Loblaws.”) Baby supplies and toiletries at drugstores: $75. Wine: $400–$500. (“We try to get the better $11 bottles, but they go fast.”) Eating out: $400. Home phone, cable, Internet and two cellphones: $280. Dry cleaning: $50. Haircuts, nails and waxing: $170. Gifts: $200. (“You have kids, you spend money on toys for other kids. That’s how it goes.”) Daycare for both kids: $2,500.

Annual expenses | Property tax: $3,800. Upgrades and maintenance on their house: $5,000. Clothes: $3,000. (“When you have young kids you really cut back on stuff for yourself.”) RRSPs and investments: $0. (“Ha! We live month to month. When we have money left over, we go out.”) Savings accounts for the kids: $1,500. (“We put money in on birthdays and special occasions.”) Hockey league fees for Thomas: $500. Gym classes for Suzanne: $900. Swimming and music lessons for the kids: $900.

 

[Bombadil]

They are blowing money but that doesn't mean they're rich. Hell people spend irresponsibly on things they can't afford even when they are poor. Their spending habits shouldn't exactly dictate if they are rich or not.

Look at the other guy's post here who breaks down his 195k income. It really comes down to two factors; how many people in your family, and where you live. Those two factors alone dramatically affect what 200k gets you.

I most certainly don't consider myself rich. I have to live within a budget. I also put away for retirement. Am I not living paycheck to paycheck? Sure. Do I have emergency money saved in case of something shitty happening? Sure. But that doesn't mean I'm rich. I'm middle class and have to watch what I spend money on each month. I think a lot of people here don't realize how expensive kids can be.

Well that's where you and I differ on our opinion of what is rich and what isn't. Living expenses matter a great deal, as you said. But these people are giving us major insight on their living expenses. The rent for my apartment is officially $1950 a month but I'm allowed to live here for $740 a month because I'm considered very low income. I live with my mom and sister. I am unemployed. My mom and sister work while I go to college to obtain an admittedly useless degree and hope to get a job by the end of next year. Our combined yearly income before taxes is $70,000 a year. We live in North Hollywood, California. If you don't know, North Hollywood is NOT a cheap place to live and is almost comparable to Canada in terms of the housing prices and the food prices (surrounded by Ralph's and Trader Joes). Yet somehow, we are able to live even though gas prices are up 30 cents from 1 and a half months ago.

This family that makes 200K will get no sympathy from me. My family manages to put money into savings every month even though I have to travel 2 hours to and from university almost every day. These guys spent a ton of money eating out and a ton on expensive clothes. 1000 a month on clothing in unbelievable. If I wore my clothes once and threw them away and bought new ones it would not amount to 1000 a month.

I will call them rich because that's what they are. When you think of rich you're thinking of actors or lawyers or politicians or oil execs. Those guys are filthy rich. And most of them don't deserve to live, much less be sympathized with.

 

[Divvy]

It's a single guy who makes 165k.

Yeah, I saw that. I don't think he's rich, just sort of stupid with his money.

 

[Presco]

They are blowing tens of thousands of dollars a year on LUXURIES. Therefore, they are rich. That's it.

Well, the single guy is blowing money like crazy and seems like a bit of a tool. But he's not supporting a family. The family of four is spending $2500 a month on childcare and saving a bit of cash for their kids. Yes, they could cut out $400 on restaurants but that is one dinner to a nice place once a week for the parents. They are lucky that they are not terribly housepoor since they bought their place a few years ago for a measly $420k. You can't buy anything in Toronto for that anymore.

It's part of my morning routine to check the FML Listings blog for a laugh at house prices in this city. Today features a shitty converted duplex that needs a ton of work for 900k. How the hell am I going to buy a place in this city?

http://fmlistings.tumblr.com/

 

[Liberty4all]

And another family of four making 200k from the article:

Monthly expenses | Mortgage on their three-bedroom home: $2,000. Mortgage on their Georgian Bay cottage: $1,200. Utilities: $430. Gas for their Chevy Avalanche and BMW 328xi: $300. Groceries at Highland Farms: $1,200. Eating out, mostly at Swiss Chalet and Jack Astor’s: $840. Rogers for home phone, cable and Internet: $200. Clothes: $1,000. (“I drive across the border to Buffalo all the time on business,” says Antonella. “I shop a lot when I’m over there, mostly at stores like Guess.”) Vitamins, creams and lotions at Shoppers: $400. Books and magazines: $100. (“I get Men’s Health, new business books, and a novel now and then,” says Anthony.) Gifts: $250. (“The kids are constantly going to birthday parties. And there’s always a christening or confirmation to attend.”)

Annual expenses | Insurance for cars, house and cottage: $3,640. Kids’ RESPs: $4,000. RRSPs and blue-chip stocks: $20,000. Donations to Princess Margaret Hospital, SickKids and women’s shelters: $1,500. Vacations: $7,000. (“In February, we take the kids to an all-inclusive in the Dominican or Mexico,” Anthony says. “Sometimes my wife and I will go to the Bahamas for four days in the winter and leave the kids at home with their grandparents.”) Season tickets to the Leafs for Anthony: $2,000. Hockey league fees, tournament fees and new equipment for Marcus: $1,500. Dance classes for Angelina: $700.

 

[TheExodu5]

I would consider a combined income of 180K rich. What percentage of the population has a household income on or above that? 5%? Are you saying that less than 5% of the population of the US are rich? I'd consider ending capitalism if it can't even provide 5% of the population with enough wealth to be considered rich!

Maybe. I don't know.

I mean, I work in the Canadian public sector with a job you can get with a 2 year college (not even university) degree. With very little ambition, you can make nearly $100K here + benefits. Looking it up...I guess it is top 5%. That kind of surprises me, though... A university graduate with more ambition than myself can make far more than that in the private sector. Obviously I'm not taking about starting at that salary (I started just over $50K), but within 10-15 years it's perfectly attainable.

 

[Karakand]

Note that a registered nurse in Ontario would have a salary of roughly $90K if they've got some seniority. Two people making that kind of money would have a higher income than the family described in the OP.

Would you consider a nurse rich?

From the corporate payrolls I see every day, yes.

 

[Enron]

Here is a family of four budget 200k salary from that article:




HOW THEY SPEND IT
Monthly expenses | Mortgage payment for a three-bedroom house: $2,500. Utilities: $500. Gas for their Jeep Commander and Ford F-150 truck: $440. (“The Jeep was a mistake. We shouldn’t have bought it; we could have used the extra money for travel.&#8221 Street parking and two parking permits: $200. Home and car insurance: $300. Cleaning lady: $160. Groceries: $1,000. (“We like Whole Foods and try to eat organic as much as we can. We love the new Leslieville store Hooked for fish. For everything else, Loblaws.&#8221 Baby supplies and toiletries at drugstores: $75. Wine: $400–$500. (“We try to get the better $11 bottles, but they go fast.&#8221 Eating out: $400. Home phone, cable, Internet and two cellphones: $280. Dry cleaning: $50. Haircuts, nails and waxing: $170. Gifts: $200. (“You have kids, you spend money on toys for other kids. That’s how it goes.&#8221 Daycare for both kids: $2,500.

Annual expenses | Property tax: $3,800. Upgrades and maintenance on their house: $5,000. Clothes: $3,000. (“When you have young kids you really cut back on stuff for yourself.&#8221 RRSPs and investments: $0. (“Ha! We live month to month. When we have money left over, we go out.&#8221 Savings accounts for the kids: $1,500. (“We put money in on birthdays and special occasions.&#8221 Hockey league fees for Thomas: $500. Gym classes for Suzanne: $900. Swimming and music lessons for the kids: $900.

For that family of 4, they really aren't living it up and doing stupid shit, unlike the single guy. however, they should probably

1. cease drinking wine, or at least that much. 500 bucks on wine a month? what the fuck.
2. not spend 1000 bucks a month at whole foods. That's ridiculous.


Also 2500/mo for daycare, goddam that shit is expensive. There's got to be a way to cut back on that.

 

[TheExodu5]

From the corporate payrolls I see every day, yes.

We're talking about Canadian nurses here...nurses in the US make a ridiculous amount of money (lots of nurses in Canada go to work in the US).

For that family of 4, they really aren't living it up and doing stupid shit, unlike the single guy. however, they should probably

1. cease drinking wine, or at least that much. 500 bucks on wine a month? what the fuck.
2. not spend 1000 bucks a month at whole foods. That's ridiculous.


Also 2500/mo for daycare, goddam that shit is expensive. There's got to be a way to cut back on that.

$1000 a month on food seems to be very little to me. If I eat healthy: lots of meat and veggies, that's what it'll cost me. They're feeding two people with $1000...that's pretty impressive.

Let's say my meal plan during the day is eggs, banana, protein shake, can of tuna, rice, avocado, chicken breast, broccoli, glass of wine, berries...we're talking about $15 a day no problem.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Well that's where you and I differ on our opinion of what is rich and what isn't. Living expenses matter a great deal, as you said. But these people are giving us major insight on their living expenses. The rent for my apartment is officially $1950 a month but I'm allowed to live here for $740 a month because I'm considered very low income. I live with my mom and sister. I am unemployed. My mom and sister work while I go to college to obtain an admittedly useless degree and hope to get a job by the end of next year. Our combined yearly income before taxes is $70,000 a year. We live in North Hollywood, California. If you don't know, North Hollywood is NOT a cheap place to live and is almost comparable to Canada in terms of the housing prices and the food prices (surrounded by Ralph's and Trader Joes). Yet somehow, we are able to live even though gas prices are up 30 cents from 1 and a half months ago.

This family that makes 200K will get no sympathy from me. My family manages to put money into savings every month even though I have to travel 2 hours to and from university almost every day. These guys spent a ton of money eating out and a ton on expensive clothes. 1000 a month on clothing in unbelievable. If I wore my clothes once and threw them away and bought new ones it would not amount to 1000 a month.

I will call them rich because that's what they are. When you think of rich you're thinking of actors or lawyers or politicians or oil execs. Those guys are filthy rich. And most of them don't deserve to live, much less be sympathized with.

Wait, please clarify. Your rent is $740 for an apartment instead of $1950 because you qualify for low income? I didn't realize 70k annual income classified as low income. How does that work out?

 

[Divvy]

For that family of 4, they really aren't living it up and doing stupid shit, unlike the single guy. however, they should probably

1. cease drinking wine, or at least that much. 500 bucks on wine a month? what the fuck.
2. not spend 1000 bucks a month at whole foods. That's ridiculous.


Also 2500/mo for daycare, goddam that shit is expensive. There's got to be a way to cut back on that.

1000 a month for a family of four in Toronto is not terribly unreasonable. They also said they mostly buy groceries at Loblaws, and some organic stuff from Whole Foods. Loblaws is a common middle-class grocery chain.

I am surprised by that daycare figure, it's pretty high.

 

[Houston3000]

It's not for a single man. It's for a family of 4.

It's really not that ludicrous of a salary. I work at the Canada Revenue agency and when I get a promotion to either team lead or IT specialist (really not that difficult if you put a bit of effort in) I would be making out at around $94K salary right now. That would put me at almost the same income level, and I live in a cheaper area. This is a job that you realistically only need a 2 year college degree for (even though I have a Computer Engineering degree).

I agree with you, for a family of four - $200k is "merely" very comfortable. Definitely wouldn't work with my salary alone.

It doesn't matter how much you make. All you have to do is move somewhere so that %70 of your salary is living costs. Then you're automatically not rich.
If you make 5 mil a year, just go build a house in Antarctica, and cite living expenses as to why you're middle class.

Hmmm, I live in New York City... specifically in Manhattan.

No matter how you spin it, you don't need to make $200k a year by yourself anywhere to live "comfortably". That is, unless your definition of "comfy" is a penthouse loft, sports cars, a maid, doorman, and personal shopper. If you honestly can't see how you can live comfortably without those things than there's no hope for you.

 

[Saucy_XL]

200k isn't rich. You are already living in an expensive to make that much.

 

[Marty Chinn]

1000 a month for a family of four in Toronto is not terribly unreasonable. They also said they mostly buy groceries at Loblaws, and some organic stuff from Whole Foods. Loblaws is a common middle-class grocery chain.

I am surprised by that daycare figure, it's pretty high.

I'm not. Daycare around here in CA is pretty expensive.

 

[davepoobond]

if you make 200k and live in an apartment that you pay 800 dollars for, you're much better off than someone who has 3 kids, and lives in a house etc etc etc

 

[Slavik81]

$1000 a month on food seems to be very little to me. If I eat healthy: lots of meat and veggies, that's what it'll cost me. They're feeding two people with $1000...that's pretty impressive.

Food costs you $1000 a month?

 

[TheExodu5]

I mean, if you're living paycheck to paycheck maybe $100K would seem like a ridiculous amount of money for one person...but when you consider the need to save for a mortgage and retirement...it's not nearly as much as you think. You still need to manage your money well to plan for retirement.

Food costs you $1000 a month?

I buy lunch at work. There's an extra $10 a day. Add in the occasional ordering out and restaurant (maybe 4-5 times a month), and $1000 is easily attainable. I could eat for about half that much if I was smarter with my food expenses.

Maybe I over exaggerated...probably closer to $700-800/mo. I've never tallied it up.

 

[Divvy]

Food costs you $1000 a month?

Yeah that's crazy haha.

I'm not. Daycare around here in CA is pretty expensive.

That surprises me, but it's not an area I know much about.

 

[SoulPlaya]

Food costs you $1000 a month?

Seriously. One person spending 1K a month on just food for himself? Wow. Damn, I guess you had to get extra cheese on your whopper.

 

[Flo_Evans]

I'm not. Daycare around here in CA is pretty expensive.

The cheapest daycare we could find was around $1000/month per kid. In the Midwest.

 

[TheExodu5]

Re: food, shit's expensive here though. Chicken breast is $7/lb at regular price, and rib steak is $12/lb. Cutting down carbs is expensive. Food was cheap when I'd rely on a $1 box of mac n' cheese for supper.

 

[Jim E. Rossler]

1000 a month for a family of four in Toronto is not terribly unreasonable. They also said they mostly buy groceries at Loblaws, and some organic stuff from Whole Foods. Loblaws is a common middle-class grocery chain.

I am surprised by that daycare figure, it's pretty high.

I've honestly never heard of a high class grocery chain

 

[Divvy]

Re: food, shit's expensive here though. Chicken breast is $7/lb at regular price, and rib steak is $12/lb.

Where do you live? 1000 for food means you're either in the middle of nowhere or you're not shopping efficiently.

I've honestly never heard of a high class grocery chain

We have them in Toronto at least. They're called Pusateri's and apparently they have cockroach infestations

 

[TheExodu5]

Where do you live? 1000 for food means you're either in the middle of nowhere or you're not shopping efficiently.

Ottawa.

I'm totally shopping inefficiently. I need to start going to Costco...

But still...even for fruits & veggies I'm paying a lot here. It's the winter time and red peppers cost $4/lb. Raspberries are $3 for a half pint. This is at Loblaws, btw.

 

[Flo_Evans]

I've honestly never heard of a high class grocery chain

You've never heard of whole foods?

 

[Divvy]

Ottawa.

I'm totally shopping inefficiently. I need to start going to Costco...

Food in Ottawa is pretty expensive, my food bill was fairly high when I lived there last year. But yeah, 1000 is still nuts.

Go shop at the T&T sometime, despite being owned by Loblaws, a lot of the same produce is actually fresher and cheaper there.

 

[TheExodu5]

Food in Ottawa is pretty expensive, my food bill was fairly high when I lived there last year. But yeah, 1000 is still nuts.

Like I said, I overestimated a bit. But it's not that far off. Keep in mind I'm spending about $250 on just work lunches alone since I'm not making my own lunch.

I get a Timothy's Chai Latte maybe twice a week...there's another $40 a month. =\ I make my own coffee, but it's fresh and locally roasted, so there's another $30 a month. Adds up quickly.

I need a bit of restraint, most likely.

 

[JABEE]

200k for a family of 4 is a wealthy family. 1/4th of your salary is considered is middle class in the United States. I don't think classifying 200k families as middle class is the right classification. It's more than well-off, so I'd say it falls in the wealthy category. You are rich in comparison to 95% of the country. I think most people are just insulted with the idea that people making 4 times more than them are acting as if their expenses are on par with a middle class family that can't afford to donate $10k to charity per year.

 

[Marty Chinn]

That surprises me, but it's not an area I know much about.

Ya, it surprised me too when we had to look for it last year. It's not cheap at all even for just one kid. It was to the point where between adding up the cost of daycare, gas to drive to work, and money spent on eating lunch at work made me question if I should just quit and stay at home. While still financially we come ahead by me still working, it's not by much and at the expense of less interaction time with my girl. It really does cost that much.

The cheapest daycare we could find was around $1000/month per kid. In the Midwest.

Ya, it was something like that around here. Maybe a bit more. My wife did a lot of the hunting and when you think about it, at that price, you're paying for bottom of the barrel and there's a reason it starts at that point. We opted not to go with the cheapest based on the ones we visited to check out cuz afterall we wanted to feel that our girl was being well cared for, so ya it cost us more than $1000 in the end.

 

[Marty Chinn]

You've never heard of whole foods?

Also well known as Whole Paycheck.

200k for a family of 4 is a wealthy family. 1/4th of your salary is considered is middle class in the United States. I don't think classifying 200k families as middle class is the right classification. It's more than well-off, so I'd say it falls in the wealthy category. You are rich in comparison to 95% of the country. I think most people are just insulted with the idea that people making 4 times more than them are acting as if their expenses are on par with a middle class family that can't afford to donate $10k to charity per year.

Here's a tip. Living in Iowa doesn't cost the same as living in California. So basing it on the average across the country doesn't mean jack when some areas have drastically higher living costs.

 

[dudeworld]

I've honestly never heard of a high class grocery chain

organic food stores are usually considered "high class" grocery stores. Where I live you can do all your grocery shopping there and you'll be spending quite a bit more

 

[Slavik81]

Ottawa.

I'm totally shopping inefficiently. I need to start going to Costco...

It's amazing to see how much stuff can cost if you do your shopping at a Safeway or the like. It's literally something like 1.5x-2x the price of shopping at Superstore.

 

[TheExodu5]

200k for a family of 4 is a wealthy family. 1/4th of your salary is considered is middle class in the United States. I don't think classifying 200k families as middle class is the right classification. It's more than well-off, so I'd say it falls in the wealthy category. You are rich in comparison to 95% of the country. I think most people are just insulted with the idea that people making 4 times more than them are acting as if their expenses are on par with a middle class family that can't afford to donate $10k to charity per year.

Keep in mind that in many parts of the US, you can buy a house for what, $100K? $200K? Go to a bigger city like Toronto or even Ottawa and you're talking $800K+ for a smaller house and lot. Also, keep in mind Canadians pay a lot more taxes.