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2011 Fall Anime Thread - Bad Shows & Self Hating Nerds

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Part two of my previous post, covers everything else (except for scy's reply to that post).

scy said:
Yeah, they're a copy of Japan but ... what form does it take? Though, to be honest, I'm just not caring anymore on what the Harmonic Divine States were (since ... that land is gone now) beyond it being a copy of the Far East/Japan. The what of it is less important than the why of it, it seems.
Yeah, they're a copy that floats (or floated?) in the sky, that seems to be the idea they're hinting at to me as well, anyway.

That or it actually is something about dimensional whatevers, but that I do kind of doubt.

Basically, almost everyone left the Divine States for the copy, the Harmonic Divine States; not everyone left, however. "Eventually", the people who left for the Harmonic Divine States returned to the Divine States and conquered it, splitting the Far East among themselves (to refer back to that map you linked, it's why each piece is sectioned to various countries like that).Those who were conquered are those that reside on the Musashi (and maybe have some minor territory on the ground? Dunno on that one).

That part I'm pretty much certain on being the case.
You mean people left Tenjou, not the Divine States... unless you're talking right after the collapse of Tenjou, in which case I guess a lot of people may have left the Divine States for the Harmonic Divine States. That statement does sound a bit odd though.
Other than that what you say makes sense, as I've said.

Maybe they'll expand on it later, but my understanding is both time periods are relevant somehow. Then again, the conversation mid-way through the episode has the kid with the computer(?) reference it's been 160 years since they were taken over. Forgot he blatantly states that :/

I guess they've just been stuck in the Sengoku Era ... still ... for some reason.
Probably has something to do with the Far East's representative being limited to an idiot since the invasion so they haven't been able to progress their History Reenactment. Or something like that.

Or just because they love that time period and need to shoehorn using it into this story somehow.
I think there was a clear timeskip as well. They were conquered in 1457, and it is now 1648 and the Harmonic Divine States have been oppressing the Divine States people for about 90 years now.

Maybe there is some element of multiple timelines -- that odd "Thirty Years War and Sengoku" statement does suggest it -- but the two places being in different times at the same time, if that makes sense? I'm not sure if we can say that. Perhaps, perhaps not, and we'll have to see if the anime mentions it I guess?

Maybe they'll expand on it later, but my understanding is both time periods are relevant somehow. Then again, the conversation mid-way through the episode has the kid with the computer(?) reference it's been 160 years since they were taken over. Forgot he blatantly states that :/

I guess they've just been stuck in the Sengoku Era ... still ... for some reason.
Probably has something to do with the Far East's representative being limited to an idiot since the invasion so they haven't been able to progress their History Reenactment. Or something like that.

Or just because they love that time period and need to shoehorn using it into this story somehow.
Heh, it would be kind of amusing if the reason the history has gone wrong again is because of something stupid like that... :)

Geneijin said:
Eh, I disagree we're told this. We assume most likely this is the case based on the evidence, which it probably is, but we're never told who the occupants of the Harmonic Divine States were exactly (yet).
It is true that we haven't actually seen them yet, yes.

Well, based on the synopsis, the Harmonic Divine States took the form of a "pocket dimension," and it coincides with what form I thought it could possibly take when the Divine States got duplicated and where it could be placed. So a dimension which can house a copy of the Divine States.
My guess is that it's just land and just people. Clones can be entertaining though, so as far as the show goes I don't care either way. :)

And I disagree what it is is any less important since we're getting weird translations of Tenjou being "outer space," and if that's true, the story is even worse than I'm understanding it to be.
What, you wouldn't want to leave the planet after the environment had apparently gotten so bad most of the planet was uninhabitable?

I would complain more about the Testament thing, and why in the world they're recreating history from before civilization in order to make one project turn out differently. It just doesn't make any sense at all.

Yeah, he blatantly states that. And yes, the time periods are relevant because if you understand how the story works, you'll know how those time periods are spoilers themselves because of what entails within those time periods :lol
In terms of factions and stuff, sure, if it happens just like in history.

So far it's just a complicated mess to justify all this "cool" shit in this time period pretty much.
True.

Also, the History Reenactment was been in progress since the invasion. The Testament Union has been dictating as much ever supposedly since 1457 if we're using novel spoilers.
Novel spoilers? Doesn't the beginning of the anime essentially say this, combined with the part where they talk about the government?

scy said:
Ah, I see what you're getting at here. Yeah, I guess it is presumptuous to say who exactly went into the HDS. Just felt like it went the direction that whomever went is also the same group that conquered the land after its fall.
Yeah, agreed.

lol, true, though I'm more feeling Tenjou's definition as Heaven (some of the translations use it as "Reached Heaven as Gods" for what Tenjou was) rather than Space. If we're doing space than, well ... damn you, Horizon, damn you.
It seems more of a sci-fi show than magic/religious, though...

Yeah, just not sure if there's an explanation for why Sengoku Era is still worth mention at all if they've gone past that some 100 years. That's all I'm puzzled on the inclusion of it, really; seems like if they're at 1648 then they should have left that Era quite some time ago (1460s - 1570s, isn't it?).

Like you say, though, first episode. Maybe it'll make more sense when stuff occurs rather than just showing off the colorful cast of characters doing what they do. Thinking about it so much has actually made me look forward to the following episodes though.

Edit: Just to clarify, I understand why the period itself is relevant to the plot itself, just wondering how it remains relevant with the years we're presented. That's where I'm getting confused over it :/

And to talk about something besides Horizon, C^3 is sounding interesting based off all these posts :/ Great, now I'll have to watch this...
Why is the Sengoku still there in 1648? I don't know, maybe because there was nothing, then there was Sengoku, then there was the Bakumatsu, and then modern Japan, right? I mean, that's the Japanese "history" you usually see in anime and games, anyway... :p

Apart from that, the only other explanation is about Geneijin's "factions to hint at the outcome" suggestion, which could be it, but seriously, if they're setting it in 1648 the Sengoku should NOT still be relevant, you are quite right. History would have had to go extremely, extremely wrong for that to still somehow be going on then, long before this 1648 breakdown.

Geneijin said:
This is one of the things they subtly imply by suggesting those two time periods actually. Given the current state of the Divine States with separate states/divided lands amongst the different countries/groups, you can postulate why they specifically chose those two time periods if you look at the map. I suggest reading the wiki entries of the Sengoku Era and Thirty Years War very carefully and look at the names very closely. Those two time periods are also inherent spoilers of what's to come. Remember the Sengoku Era represents the civil war between the Divine States and the Harmonic Divine States.

XyE8Pl.jpgp
I kind of hope that they don't just stick straight to a plot that basically follows those histories, but that kind of thing does seem somewhat popular, particularly with Romance of the Three Kingdoms stuff, but why not with other periods of history too... though on the other hand, I wouldn't expect things to just go along the historical line. I imagine there will be differences.
 

Jex

Member
hosannainexcelsis said:
Gankutsuou 17

MECHA. YES.
I know, right? Pretty awesome.

Like all the shows other sci-fi conceits, it's basically just a
visual abstraction on top of a regular duel
.
 

Jex

Member
hosannainexcelsis said:
Gankutsuou 22

That's... one way to take the story. A very Japanese way, if I may say so.
I feel this is the kind of statement that needs unpacking, so that its fully explained.
 

Geneijin

Member
A_Black_Falcon said:
If you need the novel spoilers to understand, alright. But if you need them to spoil how you should think and slant how you should interpret things, the more power to you. I just dislike hearing certain spoilers if it's going to do the latter when I'm uninterested in those spoilers. I'm only interested in interpreting based on what's given and not anything from an outside source (in this case, the novels).
 
Mirai Nikki 1

This definitely felt rushed, and the way it just bounced around with severe cuts between scenes was jarring as hell. The animation even felt sped up at some parts as if they were trying to race through the introduction.
 

jman2050

Member
Angel Beats 10-13

Hahahaha oh Maeda,
and here I thought you would just go for standard boring dramatic crap to end your series, but that last plot twist before the credits, that's the KEY I know and hate so much.
Thank you for not disappointing me.
 

trejo

Member
Revolutionary Girl Utena ~ The Adolescence of Utena

This was far more mindblowing than when I first watched it all those years ago. It's basically the show distilled into 85 minutes with absolutely everything ramped up to eleven. And it is glorious.

And yes, Nanami had by far the best role in the movie.
 

Jex

Member
trejo said:
Y'know, at first I had this image of PdotMichael watching only classy oldschool anime while sitting in a big ornate chair and holding a glass of fine aged wine that he sips from time to time.

Well that image has been shattered.
I know, right? How times have changed.
 
jman2050 said:
Angel Beats 10-13

Hahahaha oh Maeda,
and here I thought you would just go for standard boring dramatic crap to end your series, but that last plot twist before the credits, that's the KEY I know and hate so much.
Thank you for not disappointing me.

The name of the series only makes sense once you've seen the ending.
 

scy

Member
A Black Falcon said:
You mean people left Tenjou, not the Divine States... unless you're talking right after the collapse of Tenjou, in which case I guess a lot of people may have left the Divine States for the Harmonic Divine States. That statement does sound a bit odd though.
Other than that what you say makes sense, as I've said.

Well, it seems rather loose on what happened precisely with the Harmonic Divine States. Seems to me that
all that happened was the copy of the land was made, not the inhabitants (as that wouldn't make sense to go "We're low on land for people, let's clone our people!").

All I'm going after is that
people left for the Harmonic Divine States, they didn't create it already populated; those people came from "somewhere" so I assume people on Earth after Tenjou fell/failed/whatever happened to it.

Maybe there is some element of multiple timelines -- that odd "Thirty Years War and Sengoku" statement does suggest it -- but the two places being in different times at the same time, if that makes sense? I'm not sure if we can say that. Perhaps, perhaps not, and we'll have to see if the anime mentions it I guess?

Pretty much; if they're
both in place (i.e., both periods are being reenacted), then it should be fairly obvious one the story starts rolling and we see Battles/Events of both periods coming up. Hopefully it becomes obvious, anyway...

Heh, it would be kind of amusing if the reason the history has gone wrong again is because of something stupid like that... :)

Smugface would ruin things like that~

I would complain more about the Testament thing, and why in the world they're recreating history from before civilization in order to make one project turn out differently. It just doesn't make any sense at all.

Tenjou was pretty damn awesome, 'nuff said. Gotta get everything just right.

It seems more of a sci-fi show than magic/religious, though...

Well, there seems to be some heaven-based terminology thrown around but that's not really enough proof. Look, I just would rather have heaven than space, and I don't know why, lol.

Why is the Sengoku still there in 1648? I don't know, maybe because there was nothing, then there was Sengoku, then there was the Bakumatsu, and then modern Japan, right? I mean, that's the Japanese "history" you usually see in anime and games, anyway... :p

Something something, Nobunaga did some stuff, something something, Bakumatsu stuff occurred I guess, something something, everything else!

History! Thanks anime!

I kind of hope that they don't just stick straight to a plot that basically follows those histories, but that kind of thing does seem somewhat popular, particularly with Romance of the Three Kingdoms stuff, but why not with other periods of history too... though on the other hand, I wouldn't expect things to just go along the historical line. I imagine there will be differences.

In which case, wherever
Tokugawa is = winners
? Or maybe the
Peace of Westphalia, thought not sure how we choose a side for that one...
? Guess we figured out the plot guys, time to pack it up.

Geneijin said:
If you need the novel spoilers to understand, alright. But if you need them to spoil how you should think and slant how you should interpret things, the more power to you. I just dislike hearing certain spoilers if it's going to do the latter when I'm uninterested in those spoilers. I'm only interested in interpreting based on what's given and not anything from an outside source (in this case, the novels).

I agree but I was solely going after trying to figure out what the hell the backstory was getting at; I've kept myself relatively safe from anything relevant to the plot itself of the show besides that. The only thing I've really found were variations on translations of the prologue summary, honestly (and reader summaries on the backstory plot).

Really, I probably could have just been patient and maybe learned it down the road but part of me figured that if they were just info dumping over the credits, that they might just go right into the meat of the plot without much to fill us in anymore.
 

Takao

Banned
GUNDAM AGE needed more hot bloodedness. It's severely lacking. This boy needs to burn through the atmosphere with the power of his soul!
 
Gankutsuou - Fin

That was a wild ride. Despite my initial misgivings at some of the changes this made to the story, I think everything worked out for the focus they had:
the deconstruction of Albert's naivete and the reconstruction of a stronger, wiser person who can face truth without running away and hold on to hope, as well as the Count's battle between humanity and revenge and his ultimate redemption. I think the Count's ultimate fate here is more fitting than in the novel.
The ending drew a satisfying curtain over this impressive creative vision.

Jexhius said:
I feel this is the kind of statement that needs unpacking, so that its fully explained.

There are two elements in particular that felt very Japanese to me, inasmuch as I've seen similar elements in other anime:

First, the mysterious and unexplained supernatural force of the Gankutsuou which possesses Edmond and is used as a literal manifestation of his desire for revenge. Second, the apocalyptic imagery at the climax of the story, both in the destruction of Paris by Fernand's coup d'etat and in the collapse of the Count's constructed world after his death. The latter especially occurs in quite a number of anime endings.

This is not meant as a criticism, just an observation.
 

Branduil

Member
Jexhius said:
That's...odd. I don't see much point in making any more works in that series, considering that it wrapped things up pretty tightly.
Well I imagine their reason for making it has little to do with the actual story.
 

Jex

Member
hosannainexcelsis said:
Gankutsuou - Fin

That was a wild ride. Despite my initial misgivings at some of the changes this made to the story, I think everything worked out for the focus they had:
the deconstruction of Albert's naivete and the reconstruction of a stronger, wiser person who can face truth without running away and hold on to hope, as well as the Count's battle between humanity and revenge and his ultimate redemption. I think the Count's ultimate fate here is more fitting than in the novel.
The ending drew a satisfying curtain over this impressive creative vision.
It's pretty interesting that you (and I agree with you) can say that about:

a) an anime TV series
b) an anime TV series by Gonzo
c) an anime TV series by Gonzo based on a 19th century French novel

Here's a question, would you describe the adaptation as 'loose'?
 
scy said:
This is basically the assumption I'm operating under for the show; it seems to make the most sense to me right now and, until the show tells me otherwise, I think that's how I'll view it.
Yeah, I agree.

:( But it's so ridiculous! They must continue this tradition.
Couldn't they at least have some new story bits, to say new things?

I ... don't know. My guess is that it's some tome that was leftover from the whole Tenjou thing. Considering how big and important this is to the plot, it'll probably get covered.
And then eventually be a sham; this plot device is always a sham~!
Well, until they do explain it, and maybe still after that, I'll continue to call it the incredibly stupid plot concept it sure sounds like it is. :)

Feel like they should get to the warring parts of History and just, I dunno, skip them. They have the step-by-step Director's Cut of History so just skip the battles damn it and get to the cutscenes.
Yeah, I really want an explanation for why in the world they're doing it this way, but I have the feeling that whatever it is it won't be too satisfactory... and if that is the case, hopefully the action stays good enough to be at least partially distracting away from those parts of the plot.

The two
different time periods at the time of invasion is the only rationale I have for why we had Sengoku Era and Thirty Years War combined; plus, the only legible novel tidbit I found seems to indicate this: "The Japan and the world’s history occur at the same time; Japan’s history is in the Sengoku period and the world’s history is at the start of the 30 Years’ War."
Yeah, and hopefully it is something like that. I mean, the main reason might be just because the author wanted them together for story reasons, and came up with an explanation, but we'll see, hopefully there is something to maybe explain it.

As for the
Harmonic Divine States, I'm under the assumption they're gone since the plot synopsis refers to them losing their land, though that could mean it has just become pretty crappy too. These guys keep breaking their toys...
I agree, that probably did happen. The map does show a "floating land: England" on it though, so is part of it still afloat or something?

Yeah, it seems to indicate that the important date is
1413-ish, not 1457; the show seems to start with some kind of floating island collision with the land, which I take to mean the fall of the Harmonic Divine States ... which means it's like 40 years off of when it should be based off what the novels and synopsis seem to indicate. 1457 is where they pick up again for the History reenactment, supposedly, so maybe it's just from something else entirely.
We agree here too, this is definitely a problem with consistency between the novel description and the anime. There is a clear discrepancy here and no clear answer to it; you point out one of the key points of trouble. I wonder if they're going in a different direction from the books, or if there's something we haven't been told yet. It could be either one, probably, really. We'll have to see. Hopefully they say. :)

Well, I wasn't sure; most of the discussion revolved around stuff in the show synopsis and the first episode and not really from beyond. I probably should have erred on the side of caution and started redacting it anyway, I guess, since that's just standard courtesy.

I might read up more on the back story if we still have no clue what is going on by like Episode 3 or 4, lol.
Yeah, I definitely think things from outside the anime should be spoilered.
 
Mirai Nikki 1

Haha, this was awesome. Wish I could erase my memory of the manga. The tension was translated very well onto the screen. Depending on how they handle certain scenes, this could be a strong contender for show of the season. Will probably make a thread after a few episodes.

But man, did they really have to use that scene for the cold intro? Hopefully people will have forgotten it by the time the revelation comes around.

Pacing could have been a bit better, but I can understand with them cramming a 59 chapter monthly manga into a 2 cour show. Nothing of importance was lost iirc and I love the fast-pace. Makes things more tense.

Loved the omake at the end. Good idea to inject a bit of humor in a show like this after the credits.
 

trejo

Member
icarus-daedelus said:
I like the subtle changes made in the relationship between Utena & Anthy compared to the tv series. And that Shiori now has 1000% more screen time for some reason.

Now you have to watch it with Ikuni's semi-informative commentary and feel the love grow. Adolescence Apocalypse can only get better over time!
Not to mention that
Akio's been dead since before Utena even got there, or that whole thing with zombie Touga, whose name Miki didn't seem to recognize even though he was standing right next to him. Oh, and the car thing, I guess.
. The changes are subtle, yes.

To be honest, I found long haired Anthy really jarring at first when compared to her tv counterpart, probably because she comes off a lot ditzier at first, if that makes sense. But then they
brought their relationship
all the way into the forefront (with a song and dance number, even) and all was good.
 
[Gankutsuou]

Jexhius said:
It's pretty interesting that you (and I agree with you) can say that about:

a) an anime TV series
b) an anime TV series by Gonzo
c) an anime TV series by Gonzo based on a 19th century French novel

It is unexpected, isn't it?

Here's a question, would you describe the adaptation as 'loose'?

It is loose in the way it dramatically reimagines the setting and changes certain character arcs in subtle or extreme ways. At the same time, it is faithful in the way it carries over the cultural and societal structure of the original setting, and keeps the essential themes and most of the personalities intact. It is Dumas' story viewed through a different lens, an interpretation which sheds new light on the original, which in certain ways could be said to improve on the original. In short, it is the sort of adaptation I am most impressed by.
 

Renmei

Banned
Salazar said:
Fushigi Yugi Ep 1

Silly. Barely animated at all. Giving it another two episodes.
I barely follow this thread and stumbled in here on a whim but.. why are you watching this train wreck? Other than some gorgeous official artwork (I own one of the artbooks, so purdy), there is little reasonto watch this anime. Prepare to watch Miaka be a naive dumb biatch and pine over Tama-watshisface like a lonely schoolgirl~ Dunno why this was so popular back in the day.
 

Salazar

Member
Renmei said:
I barely follow this thread and stumbled in here on a whim but.. why are you watching this train wreck?

Idle whim.

As I indicated, I am profoundly unlikely to be in this for the long haul.
 

Lain

Member
Airmaster 6-7

Containing the laughters is kind of hard. Between the faces they make, the idiocy of the characters, the stupidity of the episodes' plot it's really hard to stay collected.
Those fight scenes, though, are really, really cool.
Also the midget, despite the annoying voice, works like a charm to bring the show even more up (or down).
The Airmaster Maki Aikawa said:
Do you know what it feels like when your brain rots?
Can't say I know the feeling, but maybe by the end of this show I'll know!
 

NewFresh

Member
Bakuman 2 Ep.1

It's more of the same, which is something I was expecting. The introduction of a few new characters should help keep it interesting. Maybe I just like the behind the scenes manga aspect of the show? Regardless I will keep watching.
 

BluWacky

Member
Renmei said:
I barely follow this thread and stumbled in here on a whim but.. why are you watching this train wreck? Other than some gorgeous official artwork (I own one of the artbooks, so purdy), there is little reasonto watch this anime. Prepare to watch Miaka be a naive dumb biatch and pine over Tama-watshisface like a lonely schoolgirl~ Dunno why this was so popular back in the day.

I'm guessing you're not a teenage girl? Given that it's a reverse harem show with fantasy trappings it's unlikely to appeal to you as such.

It's melodramatic fantasy, it has loads of beautiful (if barely animated) men in it, and Miaka is the standard 90s shoujo heroine - clumsy, eats a lot, not good at schoolwork, inexplicably beloved by all men who come near her. It's hardly surprising the original manga, and thus the anime in a time when such anime were even harder to come by then they are now, is so popular.
 

Articalys

Member
So fucking close. And the entire Rie squadron will be back next year too... ugh.
A2
1st 420 Astarotte Ygvar @ Astarotte's Toy!
2nd 410 Kurisu Makise @ Steins;Gate

B1
1st 474 Kanade Tachibana @ Angel Beats!
2nd 361 Gertrud Barkhorn @ Strike Witches
c6rac.png

fXG1a.png
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Steroyd said:
Gintama - 229

Steroyd Neogaf join date: 27/12/2006

Died of laughter: 10/10/2011, 15:05.

Rest in lololol.
Holy fuck, this was the funniest thing I've seen in a while. It might even destroy previous Gintama comedy episodes. Jesus Christ Almighty.

Also, it had sexy/cute Kobayashi, so that's like finding a hundred dollar bill on the day you win the lottery.
 
Mirai Nikki ep 1
tumblr_lsu64c1Gqs1qam7epo1_400.gif

GLORIOUS. Wow bridging the imagination world with the real world initially freaked me out. Im curious to see who shall be the winner overall, I just hope its not the stalker girl, she is so creepy. Hard to relate to the main character though, at times. Ending theme was nice.
 

duckroll

Member
According to a Japanese blog which had the chance to watch the Guilty Crown premiere at an event yesterday, the anime is SO GOOD that after watching it, it feels like the anticipation and suspense you would have after reading a chapter of a Naoki Urasawa manga.

IT WILL BE GLORIOUS! HYPE!!!!
 

NewFresh

Member
Twin Angel Finale

XARGl.gif


You were right ABF, that was pretty amazing. I was kind of upset that
Tuxedo mask came back; I knew that he would, but was hoping that the show would keep with the tone of the last episode. And why the hell did we not get to watch the fight between deer head and bear head!
By far one of the most out of nowhere scenes I have seen in a while was the
moe~rocket! How the hell did they even think that simply chanting "We can do it" would allow them to suddenly fly into space???

The show overall was a fun hodgepodge of anime cliches rolled up into one ridiculous show. Add on to that an obscenely catchy ED song, and you have Twin Angel.
 

scy

Member
duckroll said:
According to a Japanese blog which had the chance to watch the Guilty Crown premiere at an event yesterday, the anime is SO GOOD that after watching it, it feels like the anticipation and suspense you would have after reading a chapter of a Naoki Urasawa manga.

IT WILL BE GLORIOUS! HYPE!!!!

Oh lord, final hype push?
 
duckroll said:
According to a Japanese blog which had the chance to watch the Guilty Crown premiere at an event yesterday, the anime is SO GOOD that after watching it, it feels like the anticipation and suspense you would have after reading a chapter of a Naoki Urasawa manga.

IT WILL BE GLORIOUS! HYPE!!!!

yeah, what a source!

but I hope Ayase will be a god tier character.
 
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