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2011 Fall Anime Thread - Bad Shows & Self Hating Nerds

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Fairy Tail 1-8

Episode 8 was hot. If they can keep the action this intense in all of the episodes then this may become tied with naruto as my favorite long running anime. For the english dub, have come to like the VA for Natsu, Erza, and Gray.


The action is pretty consistent fortunately, at least always at the arc climaxes. I think they upped the budget around the time of the Jellal fight because it's noticeably well animated as is the Laxus fight in the following arc.
 

zeroshiki

Member
So it seems like Oshii was a speaker at a college and ranted about the state of anime.

(link in Japanese)
http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20111122-00000005-jct-ent

Choice quote:

"Anime these days have turned into nothing but otaku fodder, works with no "expression" that are copies of copies of copies"

The article goes on to say that the copy complaint was first brought up by Miyazaki where he said in an interview during Sen to Chihiro that anime is now rock bottom (in 2002!) and gave as an example how Anno said that his works copied his seniors' works and since the kids today are copying Anno that makes them copies of copies, basically saying everything is now crap.

:getoffmylawn
 
Hanasaku Iroha 18

I like Nako, and can relate to her plight a bit. I liked seeing her interact with her family at home; it helps to round out her personality so she's not just that shy girl. The underwater fantasy sequences had some ridiculous costumes, but also some striking imagery, particularly when it showed Nako's conception of her home, then transitioned to its real appearance. Certainly better than the Yuina and Enishi episodes; I'd put it slightly above the Tomoe episode.

Hanasaku Iroha 19

Your fairly standard cultural festival episode. They've even got the class doing a cafe. Fortunately the return of the beautiful old waitress uniforms and
Ko crossdressing in them (!)
elevate this episode into awesome tier.
 

Jex

Member
No, it's just that when you have a character that is an emotionless killing machine, there's not really all that much room for character development. It's frankly boring.
Well, that too, but she also doesn't fit neatly in the same universe as the rest of the characters. She's bothersome for a couple of reasons.
 
Red Garden 3

This show has some weird direction, particularly with the discretion shots. The screaming is also really grating and does a number on my ears.

Still enjoying it nonetheless. The whole mystery surrounding the girls' continued existence despite
being dead
has me intrigued as do the night battles which can come at any time. The latter kind of gives it a level of tension similar to that of Bokurano or anything else with battles that may happen whenever.
 
Not really. Mirai Nikki might match up with Paranoia Agent's horror elements, but I think you'd be better off digging through older shows or previous seasons if those 3 are the type of anime you are looking for. Might allow you to expand your tastes a bit. I'd link you to the thread that has an extensive list of good anime from the 2000's but search function is still down so I can't. If those are the only shows you have enjoyed, what other shows have you watched but disliked? Might be easier to give some recommendations that way.

Now if you really do want to watch something from this season, then your best option is probably Fate/Zero. Not really like anything you mentioned, but its a really solid show with great action, supernatural elements, and an interesting plot among other things.

Oh and presumably you have watched Stand Alone Complex correct?

I've seen SAC and I loved it. To be frank, most anime shows do not appeal to me. I don't like any of the slice of life, harem, comedy, etc. anime shows. Not really into the whole mech thing either. I definitely do not like moe shows either. I nearly wept when Satoshi Kon died.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
So it seems like Oshii was a speaker at a college and ranted about the state of anime.

(link in Japanese)
http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20111122-00000005-jct-ent

Choice quote:

"Anime these days have turned into nothing but otaku fodder, works with no "expression" that are copies of copies of copies"

The article goes on to say that the copy complaint was first brought up by Miyazaki where he said in an interview during Sen to Chihiro that anime is now rock bottom (in 2002!) and gave as an example how Anno said that his works copied his seniors' works and since the kids today are copying Anno that makes them copies of copies, basically saying everything is now crap.

:getoffmylawn

We live in a mimetic culture though, where we're at a point where stuff gets some circle-jerky that sometimes they'll reference things that don't even exist yet. It's a problem endemic with nerd culture in general though, mostly because of how insular and reference-driven the community has become.
 

wonzo

Banned
Yozakura Quartet OVA 3

Overall a good, if a little bit cliched end to a pretty good series. The battle scenes were really well done and kinda reminded me of the last few episodes of Birdy Decode 02. How's the TV series compared to this?
 
Yozakura Quartet OVA 3

Overall a good, if a little bit cliched end to a pretty good series. The battle scenes were really well done and kinda reminded me of the last few episodes of Birdy Decode 02. How's the TV series compared to this?

Censored to hell and back. Just read the manga.
 
So it seems like Oshii was a speaker at a college and ranted about the state of anime.

(link in Japanese)
http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20111122-00000005-jct-ent

Choice quote:

"Anime these days have turned into nothing but otaku fodder, works with no "expression" that are copies of copies of copies"

The article goes on to say that the copy complaint was first brought up by Miyazaki where he said in an interview during Sen to Chihiro that anime is now rock bottom (in 2002!) and gave as an example how Anno said that his works copied his seniors' works and since the kids today are copying Anno that makes them copies of copies, basically saying everything is now crap.

:getoffmylawn

After some episode of the original Cutie Honey anime. Put some CGI effects and the newest moe girl and you have a modern magical girl anime. Or Attack No.1 and the manga/anime sport genre, the same with Astroboy and Kimba. All titles are 40 or more years old.
Copying is pretty old, so it's not the main problem.

It's now the target group, they don't even try to make a anime for a wider audience. They even made Usagi Drop to a realistic-moe show than a Josei anime about parenting and working life of a single father like the manga.
 
I've seen SAC and I loved it. To be frank, most anime shows do not appeal to me. I don't like any of the slice of life, harem, comedy, etc. anime shows. Not really into the whole mech thing either. I definitely do not like moe shows either. I nearly wept when Satoshi Kon died.

What about typical fighting series like DBZ or One Piece? The medium has a good chunk of that which is completely devoid of moe (though most do have comedy).

Also, what about horror and/or suspense?
 

zeroshiki

Member
We live in a mimetic culture though, where we're at a point where stuff gets some circle-jerky that sometimes they'll reference things that don't even exist yet. It's a problem endemic with nerd culture in general though, mostly because of how insular and reference-driven the community has become.

The main complaint of Oshii is not that its referential but that its derivative. Like how Urusei Yatsura or Maison Ikkoku had a "harem" so everyone saw that and thought "hey I want me a harem too" without really understanding anything about what made it work.

This is why there was a flood of red haired tsunderes and lifeless doll stereotypes after Eva.
 

Geneijin

Member
After some episode of the original Cutie Honey anime. Put some CGI effects and the newest moe girl and you have a modern magical girl anime.
Not sure why you're saying that if you've seen 70s Cutey Honey when it was clearly more of an inspiration for the magical girl genre than anything else. A modern magical girl anime isn't a 70s Cutey Honey redux.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
zeroshiki said:
The main complaint of Oshii is not that its referential but that its derivative. Like how Urusei Yatsura or Maison Ikkoku had a "harem" so everyone saw that and thought "hey I want me a harem too" without really understanding anything about what made it work.

This is why there was a flood of red haired tsunderes and lifeless doll stereotypes after Eva.
My point is that, right now anyway, they are one and the same. Reference porn is just the "meta" guilt-free version of being derivative, because the authors get to absolve themselves of the responsibility of being derivative while enjoying the "benefits" of reproducing what the nerds want.
 

zeroshiki

Member
My point is that, right now anyway, they are one and the same. Reference porn is just the "meta" guilt-free version of being derivative, because the authors get to absolve themselves of the responsibility of being derivative while enjoying the "benefits" of reproducing what the nerds want.

While I won't contest whether referencing is worse than being derivative, what makes you say that they're the same? Making a Gundam joke in Gintama or Haganai is clearly a reference and in no way derivative, for example.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
zeroshiki said:
While I won't contest whether referencing is worse than being derivative, what makes you say that they're the same? Making a Gundam joke in Gintama or Haganai is clearly a reference and in no way derivative, for example.
I guess I'm thinking of comedies where the references are the point, beyond just passing one time references to other material. Shows like Lucky Star or Family Guy, where the joke is that they are derivative.
 

Risette

A Good Citizen
I've seen SAC and I loved it. To be frank, most anime shows do not appeal to me. I don't like any of the slice of life, harem, comedy, etc. anime shows. Not really into the whole mech thing either. I definitely do not like moe shows either. I nearly wept when Satoshi Kon died.
you know there are lots of animu that don't fall under those labels
 
The manga is moe as hell.

They cut out pretty much all Josei elements for the anime adaptation, just the litter story about the mother was part of the anime. Usagi Drop was without real target group, for the otaku crowd not anime-moeish enough and it has nothing for the wider female audience.

If you read the chapters about the first kindergarten day of Rin and then watch the anime, you can see how plain the anime is.

Not sure why you're saying that if you've seen 70s Cutey Honey when it was clearly more of an inspiration for the magical girl genre than anything else. A modern magical girl anime isn't a 70s Cutey Honey redux.

You have almost all elements of a magical girl show in Cutie Honey. The only missing element is the super sentai group, I guess Sailor Moon was the first magical girl manga with a female hero group, maybe Cat's Eye although it was no magical girl manga/anime.

If you call it inspiration or copy it's not that important because it's not the main problem. Many animes are based on mangas or light novels and booth market are afaik healthy. It's all about target groups, the development of the industry is no surprise, if you have just a small Otaku monoculture.
 
Mirrai Nikki 6-7

Yuki makes my brain melt
saving his virginity for marriage?
, Yuno makes this show entertaining
good thing she didn't have to use those tools lol and how she managed to figure out where the diary was hidden was cool even though it was kind of late
, Murmur is great.

Chihayafuru 8

Its nice that they got to recruit a really skilled player, and I had to check back on previous eps. if it was really him with a different hair.lol I look forward to the next episode since the club is now complete and see where this show goes. =)
 

Ezalc

Member
Chihayafuru 8

Its nice that they got to recruit a really skilled player, and I had to check back on previous eps. if it was really him with a different hair.lol I look forward to the next episode since the club is now complete and see where this show goes. =)

This reminds me, what happened to his hair. Did he dye it or did it just go white?
 
They cut out pretty much all Josei elements for the anime adaptation, just the litter story about the mother was part of the anime. Usagi Drop was without real target group, for the otaku crowd not anime-moeish enough and it has nothing for the wider female audience.

I can't
and won't
speak to the manga, but I have to question your assertion that the Usagi Drop anime has "nothing for the wider female audience". This is anecdotal evidence, but my mom enjoyed watching it a great deal and saw it, like I did, as primarily about the travails and joys of parenting rather than "Buy Rin figurines!" or whatever. Except for the few times I've gotten her to sit down for a Miyazaki film such as Cagliostro or Ponyo, she's never watched anime or been interested in any of the anime I watch.

Usagi Drop has a good deal of mainstream appeal.
 

hellclerk

Everything is tsundere to me
Well, that too, but she also doesn't fit neatly in the same universe as the rest of the characters. She's bothersome for a couple of reasons.

Not even. She's just another specialized character, this one meant to foil Revy. Most of the supporting characters and villains of the week and such are often designed as different foils to the primary cast. Balalaika being a sharp foil to Rock (as well as Revy to a different extent) is probably the best example, or even Eda. Hell, I would even make the argument that the Twins are meant as a sort of a sick, twisted foil to Rock. Roberta, as a character fits fine into the universe, she's just not designed for the close narrative scrutiny that main characters come across on a regular basis.
 

BluWacky

Member
They cut out pretty much all Josei elements for the anime adaptation, just the litter story about the mother was part of the anime. Usagi Drop was without real target group, for the otaku crowd not anime-moeish enough and it has nothing for the wider female audience.

What is a "josei" element? What doesn't appeal to women about a good looking young man cleaning up his slightly dodgy act by raising a little girl? It's "moe", maybe, but moe for different reasons than most moe shows.

You have almost all elements of a magical girl show in Cutie Honey. The only missing element is the super sentai group, I guess Sailor Moon was the first magical girl manga with a female hero group, maybe Cat's Eye although it was no magical girl manga/anime.

As 7th has said, Cutie Honey and Sailor Moon were the exception, rather than the rule. Most magical girl shows had no fighting in until post-Sailor Moon, for instance, and the VAST majority of magical girl shows - even now - aren't about the "sentai" team, which Sailor Moon really pioneered. Even in the 90s to 00s there were very few shows with real teams of magical girls - off the top of my head I can only think of about three (Wedding Peach, Tokyo Mew Mew and Shichinin no Nana).
queue hordes of people pointing out sentai magical girl shows - I don't mean things like Corrector Yui as until the second season that only had one magical girl.
 

Steroyd

Member
What is a "josei" element? What doesn't appeal to women about a good looking young man cleaning up his slightly dodgy act by raising a little girl? It's "moe", maybe, but moe for different reasons than most moe shows.



As 7th has said, Cutie Honey and Sailor Moon were the exception, rather than the rule. Most magical girl shows had no fighting in until post-Sailor Moon, for instance, and the VAST majority of magical girl shows - even now - aren't about the "sentai" team, which Sailor Moon really pioneered. Even in the 90s to 00s there were very few shows with real teams of magical girls - off the top of my head I can only think of about three (Wedding Peach, Tokyo Mew Mew and Shichinin no Nana).
queue hordes of people pointing out sentai magical girl shows - I don't mean things like Corrector Yui as until the second season that only had one magical girl.

How could you forget the Precure series. D:

Here's one of a bunch of youtube clips, showing the history of the magical girl anime. Sailormoon pionneered the "sentai" team aspect of the magical girl genre, then there's a huge boom from then on of other studio's trying to replicate it.
 

7Th

Member
How could you forget the Precure series. D:

Here's one of a bunch of youtube clips, showing the history of the magical girl anime. Sailormoon pionneered the "sentai" team aspect of the magical girl genre, then there's a huge boom from then on of other studio's trying to replicate it.

Precure was, at least originally, directly inspired by Kamen Rider rather than by Sailor Moon, actually. Then they realized that selling merchandise of 4-5 girls was more profitable than selling merchandise of only 2.
 
Code Geass R2 ep 13-end

Fortunately Suzaku teaming up with Lelouch was actually a good thing and my favorite mini arc. I wish Rolo hadnt died though. Otherwise the ending was odd, surely after all of this Lelouch isnt dead.
. Overall, it was decent, with the final few episodes the best of the series.
 

Dynedom

Member
Well, that too, but she also doesn't fit neatly in the same universe as the rest of the characters. She's bothersome for a couple of reasons.

Maybe something was lost in translation from the manga to the anime. I'm not entirely sure. It started to become overtly-philosophical and something about Rock's role in the events really irked me.

Maybe I need to watch the OAVs again. Roberta was part of the problem but that wasn't my biggest issue with the arc. Like you said, it was centered around her and I felt that the rest of the BL crew was an afterthought. Yes, Rock had a role but I still don't really sure if I understand or like it.

This is doubly compounded by the fact that in the manga
whatever changes he went through in the Roberta arc completely dissolve by the new Greenback Jane arc and he seems to half-revert back to his old self. I think that in terms of his development, the Tokyo Arc (which most people seem to dismiss as the worst) did a much better job on him than the Roberta Arc. Of course, this may be premature as whatever changes he underwent in the Roberta arc may still come to the forefront in the current arc. Kind of like a sleeping tiger type thing.

I dunno. The entire RBT arc felt like Roberta fan service and nothing more. Maybe I should read through the manga version before I jump back into the anime. Maybe I lost the plot between OVAs.
 

Jex

Member
[Black Lagoon General]

Maybe something was lost in translation from the manga to the anime. I'm not entirely sure. It started to become overtly-philosophical and something about Rock's role in the events really irked me.

Maybe I need to watch the OAVs again. Roberta was part of the problem but that wasn't my biggest issue with the arc. Like you said, it was centered around her and I felt that the rest of the BL crew was an afterthought. Yes, Rock had a role but I still don't really sure if I understand or like it.

This is doubly compounded by the fact that in the manga
whatever changes he went through in the Roberta arc completely dissolve by the new Greenback Jane arc and he seems to half-revert back to his old self. I think that in terms of his development, the Tokyo Arc (which most people seem to dismiss as the worst) did a much better job on him than the Roberta Arc. Of course, this may be premature as whatever changes he underwent in the Roberta arc may still come to the forefront in the current arc. Kind of like a sleeping tiger type thing.

I dunno. The entire RBT arc felt like Roberta fan service and nothing more. Maybe I should read through the manga version before I jump back into the anime. Maybe I lost the plot between OVAs.
I wouldn't assume that 'most people' don't like the Tokyo arc. As far as I'm concerned it's fairly strong and actually I quite enjoyed Rock's development in Roberta's Blood Trail. I haven't read the manga, and probably won't, but if
Rock continues to become a bit darker and more cynical that's fine by me.
 

Ezalc

Member
[Black Lagoon General]
I wouldn't assume that 'most people' don't like the Tokyo arc. As far as I'm concerned it's fairly strong and actually I quite enjoyed Rock's development in Roberta's Blood Trail. I haven't read the manga, and probably won't, but if
Rock continues to become a bit darker and more cynical that's fine by me.


I don't like what they did to Rock. I still think it's bullshit how
He went from some random salaryman to some genius tactician, all in a span of what? Like a year?
 

Dresden

Member
On the other hand salaryrock would be pretty boring to read about. I've never had a problem with it. I'd have preferred it if he learned kung-fu and blew people up with his Ki, actually.
 

Dynedom

Member
I wouldn't assume that 'most people' don't like the Tokyo arc. As far as I'm concerned it's fairly strong and actually I quite enjoyed Rock's development in Roberta's Blood Trail. I haven't read the manga, and probably won't, but if
Rock continues to become a bit darker and more cynical that's fine by me.

I think the entire Black Lagoon series is meant to develop Rock's darker and more cynical side. I have no problem with that. I just don't think it was done all that well in Roberta's Blood Trail. Again, I'll have to watch it again to really see. It's easy to loose sight of what's happening with his character when you have to wait months in between each OAV.

That being said, I think part of Rock's "innocence" in comparison to a majority of the cast is one of Black Laggon's strong points. The fact that he's outside while still on the inside was one of the hallmarks of the show, imho. If he becomes a heartless, cycnical and maniacal bastard, I want it to be at the END of the series, not mid-way through.
 

NewFresh

Member
I don't like what they did to Rock. I still think it's bullshit how
He went from some random salaryman to some genius tactician, all in a span of what? Like a year?

It never really bothered me (In fact I enjoyed it), but it's well past the realm of believability.
 

Jex

Member
[Black Lagoon General]
I don't like what they did to Rock. I still think it's bullshit how
He went from some random salaryman to some genius tactician, all in a span of what? Like a year?
It never really bothered me (In fact I enjoyed it), but it's well past the realm of believability.
Two points.

1. We're talking about believability? In Black Lagoon? It's a very informative show, but it's never been plausible and that's not why I watch it. The world that they are in is not reality, but neither is it fantasy (which is why Roberta irks myself and other fans), it's more like living in a dark John Woo movie. The characters are as exaggerated as the story but they are well developed in that particular space, they aren't flat and dull.

2. With regards to the spoilers:
I don't really know about the 'time scale' for the show, but actually Rock has been a creative planner since the opening two episodes. This isn't some 'new trait'. I wouldn't really regard him as a genius either, since unlike most tacticians in anime he didn't snap his fingers and then come up with some perfect plan. We saw him do the working out, carrying the 2, checking the numbers etc. It wasn't really 'perfect' either, even if it did work in the end.
So I can't really say it bothered me.
 
Mirai Nikki 6

Yuno is batshit insane. Anytime you're thinking "Well cute Stalker is best stalker" she does something completely insane. I mean it was fucked up when she looks at the stuff she packed in her bag, saying it was good she accepted her, but she still went psychotic in the bathroom for no reason after Yukiteru's mom accepted her.

Yukiteru could have gotten laid and he was saying "This is the worst day ever", what a pussy.

I've gotten very far ahead of the anime now in the manga, and I gotta say, I can't wait to see some of the upcoming big action set pieces get animated. But Dat Yuno, if you think she's crazy and psychotic and totally cute now, you ain't seen nothing yet. She only gets crazier and cuter as the story goes on and all kinds of crazy shit happens.

Yandere is Best Dere!
Murder Moe is Best Moe! (And damn,
Yuno murders a fuckton of people.
)
 

Jex

Member
[Black Lagoon General]
I think the entire Black Lagoon series is meant to develop Rock's darker and more cynical side. I have no problem with that. I just don't think it was done all that well in Roberta's Blood Trail. Again, I'll have to watch it again to really see. It's easy to loose sight of what's happening with his character when you have to wait months in between each OAV.
I'd go even further and say that the whole central issue of show is clash between idealism and cynicism within the character of Rock.

As I've said above, I think it worked well within the Roberta's Blood Trail because
from the audiences perspective it looked like Rock had fallen all the way into becoming a villain. However, that was part of a complicated bluff so he hadn't quite fallen that far. However, the extent to which he manipulated and used other people's (endangering them in process) certainly represents the actions of someone who has started to change.
That being said, I think part of Rock's "innocence" in comparison to a majority of the cast is one of Black Laggon's strong points. The fact that he's outside while still on the inside was one of the hallmarks of the show, imho. If he becomes a heartless, cycnical and maniacal bastard, I want it to be at the END of the series, not mid-way through.
Well, I imagine it would be, there's no real point in doing it any other way.
 
[Black Lagoon and a bit of Anne]

that's the joke!

she is now ~16

So i wasn't going crazy then!!!

No, it's just that when you have a character that is an emotionless killing machine, there's not really all that much room for character development. It's frankly boring.

She really isn't all that emotionless (cares of the garcia's well enough to do this) but i guess its the fact she just switches to pure rage/insanity instead.

Well, that too, but she also doesn't fit neatly in the same universe as the rest of the characters. She's bothersome for a couple of reasons.

Not even. She's just another specialized character, this one meant to foil Revy. Most of the supporting characters and villains of the week and such are often designed as different foils to the primary cast. Balalaika being a sharp foil to Rock (as well as Revy to a different extent) is probably the best example, or even Eda. Hell, I would even make the argument that the Twins are meant as a sort of a sick, twisted foil to Rock. Roberta, as a character fits fine into the universe, she's just not designed for the close narrative scrutiny that main characters come across on a regular basis.

The problem i see with her is that she basically went back to her element of hunting/killing and what i think might irk people more is the fact that her appearance before this she was kinda doing the same thing
(When looking for the captured Garcia)
so its like more of the same.

Maybe something was lost in translation from the manga to the anime. I'm not entirely sure. It started to become overtly-philosophical and something about Rock's role in the events really irked me.

Maybe I need to watch the OAVs again. Roberta was part of the problem but that wasn't my biggest issue with the arc. Like you said, it was centered around her and I felt that the rest of the BL crew was an afterthought. Yes, Rock had a role but I still don't really sure if I understand or like it.

This is doubly compounded by the fact that in the manga
whatever changes he went through in the Roberta arc completely dissolve by the new Greenback Jane arc and he seems to half-revert back to his old self. I think that in terms of his development, the Tokyo Arc (which most people seem to dismiss as the worst) did a much better job on him than the Roberta Arc. Of course, this may be premature as whatever changes he underwent in the Roberta arc may still come to the forefront in the current arc. Kind of like a sleeping tiger type thing.


I dunno. The entire RBT arc felt like Roberta fan service and nothing more. Maybe I should read through the manga version before I jump back into the anime. Maybe I lost the plot between OVAs.

Could be
from Fabiola's disdain, Benny's advice, etc since Rock started to realize that he might be changing.

[Black Lagoon General]


I wouldn't assume that 'most people' don't like the Tokyo arc. As far as I'm concerned it's fairly strong and actually I quite enjoyed Rock's development in Roberta's Blood Trail. I haven't read the manga, and probably won't, but if
Rock continues to become a bit darker and more cynical that's fine by me.

I don't mind the change either tbh but as long as its a decent progression and not some huge jump.

I think the entire Black Lagoon series is meant to develop Rock's darker and more cynical side. I have no problem with that. I just don't think it was done all that well in Roberta's Blood Trail. Again, I'll have to watch it again to really see. It's easy to loose sight of what's happening with his character when you have to wait months in between each OAV.

That being said, I think part of Rock's "innocence" in comparison to a majority of the cast is one of Black Laggon's strong points. The fact that he's outside while still on the inside was one of the hallmarks of the show, imho. If he becomes a heartless, cycnical and maniacal bastard, I want it to be at the END of the series, not mid-way through.

I think so as well since i've said a few times that it's one of the good things he brought to that city but i also want to see if he can still hang on to it while being constantly exposed to that place. The Japan arc was a nice starting point to observe imo.
[Black Lagoon General]


Two points.

1. We're talking about believability? In Black Lagoon? It's a very informative show, but it's never been plausible and that's not why I watch it. The world that they are in is not reality, but neither is it fantasy (which is why Roberta irks myself and other fans), it's more like living in a dark John Woo movie. The characters are as exaggerated as the story but they are well developed in that particular space, they aren't flat and dull.

2. With regards to the spoilers:
I don't really know about the 'time scale' for the show, but actually Rock has been a creative planner since the opening two episodes. This isn't some 'new trait'. I wouldn't really regard him as a genius either, since unlike most tacticians in anime he didn't snap his fingers and then come up with some perfect plan. We saw him do the working out, carrying the 2, checking the numbers etc. It wasn't really 'perfect' either, even if it did work in the end.
So I can't really say it bothered me.

In regards to point 2: Yea i honestly thought he just crossed his t's , dotted his i's and hoped for a bit of luck.

[Black Lagoon General]

I'd go even further and say that the whole central issue of show is clash between idealism and cynicism within the character of Rock.

As I've said above, I think it worked well within the Roberta's Blood Trail because
from the audiences perspective it looked like Rock had fallen all the way into becoming a villain. However, that was part of a complicated bluff so he hadn't quite fallen that far. However, the extent to which he manipulated and used other people's (endangering them in process) certainly represents the actions of someone who has started to change.

I think the
fact he asked Benny for his opinion about it
kinda helps.
 

Cwarrior

Member
I think the entire Black Lagoon series is meant to develop Rock's darker and more cynical side. I have no problem with that. I just don't think it was done all that well in Roberta's Blood Trail. Again, I'll have to watch it again to really see. It's easy to loose sight of what's happening with his character when you have to wait months in between each OAV.

That being said, I think part of Rock's "innocence" in comparison to a majority of the cast is one of Black Laggon's strong points. The fact that he's outside while still on the inside was one of the hallmarks of the show, imho. If he becomes a heartless, cycnical and maniacal bastard, I want it to be at the END of the series, not mid-way through.

I think you would have to watch it again, having to watch each episode months apart would greatly effect your enjoyment of it, since you wouldn’t be able to remember what happened in the previous episodes.
 

Jex

Member
[The Variety and Diversity of Anime as a medium of expression
I've seen SAC and I loved it. To be frank, most anime shows do not appeal to me. I don't like any of the slice of life, harem, comedy, etc. anime shows. Not really into the whole mech thing either. I definitely do not like moe shows either. I nearly wept when Satoshi Kon died.
you know there are lots of animu that don't fall under those labels
Yes, yes there is. Listen to this man, or read any of the threads we have on the subject. I'll happily hand pick some shows that might appeal to you if you'd like to see something different.
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[Black Lagoon - The feasibility of it's physics
Not even. She's just another specialized character[...] Roberta, as a character fits fine into the universe, she's just not designed for the close narrative scrutiny that main characters come across on a regular basis.
I really must disagree on a very basic level with this line of argument.

In the world of Black Lagoon nearly every character displays a fair amount of impossibly perfect aiming. This is kind of an established skill that nearly every character has and it's what tends to make the battles in the show visually kinetic and exciting because people pull of a lot of cool stuff. However, Roberta herself displays a fair number of powers that go beyond this.

1. Totally impossible to shoot: for the most part. Many characters in this show get shot at without being killed but at least you see Revy take physical cover. Roberta doesn't need cover, she just bounces around with no regard to physics.

2. Preposterous resilience to all forms of damage: Perhaps Roberta will be hit, or attacked, or shoot at by 15 gun wielding hit-men, or in involved a serious car crash. Not only can she survive any of these incidents but, adding insult to injury, she doesn't seem winded or out of breath. She doesn't display human characteristics or limits, hence the Terminator comparisons. When our heroes tale damage they do it in a 'John Woo' manner, where they'll get badly beat up and somehow survive, but they actually do take damage, and you can see that it effects them.

3. She
bit through a combat knife. SHE BROKE IT WITH HER GOD DAMN TEETH.
What? WHAT?
 
Crunchyroll's latest simulcast is "gdgd Fairies".

The latest addition to Crunchyroll's fall simulcast lineup is the CG-animated series gdgd Fairies. The series will air every Wednesday at 11:30am PST, with the latest episode streaming after its Japanese broadcast.

Synopsis:
Pikuku, Shirushiru, and Korokoro live in the Fairy Forest. They hang out in the forest together and are able to use their magical powers, ‘Mental and Time Room’. They are also able to look into other worlds such as ‘Afure Lake’.

I think I'll be passing on this one.
 
So the name stands for goddamn goddamn Fairies? /confused

The full version of My Dearest is really quite good. I'm amazed that Koeda is only 15. I guess this is what happens when you hold a talent competition/audition to select the next vocalists for your group and thousands of people show up, and the winner isn't decided in a fucking retarded way like American Idol.
 

Neo C.

Member
[Black Lagoon General]

I wouldn't assume that 'most people' don't like the Tokyo arc. As far as I'm concerned it's fairly strong and actually I quite enjoyed Rock's development in Roberta's Blood Trail. I haven't read the manga, and probably won't, but if
Rock continues to become a bit darker and more cynical that's fine by me.
In the manga Rock is emotionally more solid and his showing is not as prominent as in the anime.
 

Jex

Member
I see that they only stream the best.

It's like that crazy period in the 2000's where everything got licensed, in other words, a load of crap flooded the anime sections in retailers. I guess with online it's far cheaper and less risky to do licence trash, because there's no need to make it and pack it and ship it and put up in store shelves.
 

Dynedom

Member
I think you would have to watch it again, having to watch each episode months apart would greatly effect your enjoyment of it, since you wouldn’t be able to remember what happened in the previous episodes.

Agreed. I also think I'd appreciate certain subtleties more on a second watch.

Also, did I seriously say 'loose" instead of 'lose'? Ugh.

I think so as well since i've said a few times that it's one of the good things he brought to that city but i also want to see if he can still hang on to it while being constantly exposed to that place. The Japan arc was a nice starting point to observe imo.

Yes. I think the important part of the Japan arc was not only it's end but the fact that events that took place happened IN Japan. Even if he wanted to up and leave and go back, I don't think he can. Japan doesn't hold that separation anymore. Yes, the whole
boss leaving him out to dry thing at the start of the series
may already have done it but I don't see that was a powerful enough reason to darken Japan. What happened in the Tokyo arc is different and pretty much confirmed he can no longer separate innocent Japan from
Yuko's death. If she had died in any other place (e.g. Roanapur), the impact would be significantly lower
. If you want to complete alter a character, you have to sever the roots to his previous identity. I think that pretty much did it.

I really must disagree on a very basic level with this line of argument.

In the world of Black Lagoon nearly every character displays a fair amount of impossibly perfect aiming. This is kind of an established skill that nearly every character has and it's what tends to make the battles in the show visually kinetic and exciting because people pull of a lot of cool stuff. However, Roberta herself displays a fair number of powers that go beyond this.

1. Totally impossible to shoot: for the most part. Many characters in this show get shot at without being killed but at least you see Revy take physical cover. Roberta doesn't need cover, she just bounces around with no regard to physics.

2. Preposterous resilience to all forms of damage: Perhaps Roberta will be hit, or attacked, or shoot at by 15 gun wielding hit-men, or in involved a serious car crash. Not only can she survive any of these incidents but, adding insult to injury, she doesn't seem winded or out of breath. She doesn't display human characteristics or limits, hence the Terminator comparisons. When our heroes tale damage they do it in a 'John Woo' manner, where they'll get badly beat up and somehow survive, but they actually do take damage, and you can see that it effects them.

3. She
bit through a combat knife. SHE BROKE IT WITH HER GOD DAMN TEETH.
What? WHAT?

The moment a side character seems to outshine a protagonist, you're going to run into problems with your canon. Roberta was so over the top and unbelievable and it just made the entire thing so...shounen. Is it possible to be too anime?
 
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