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[Lafiel]

The problem with animu these days, and the problem we have thread titles like these, is that people think there has to be more to it. There's not. It's entertainment. That what it's supposed to be. If I have to think about a show, look for a deeper meaning that actually really isn't there, it failed at the one quality it's supposed to have. Haruhi fails. Evangelion fails. Madoka fails. All those shows are actually terrible, but they're so unbelievably bad that people try to see something in them that simply isn't there. I take tits and explosions over philosophical, metaphysical bullshit any day of the week. Because anime authors simply aren't clever enough to do that stuff, and anything I'd try to see in those shows would be my very own imagination. It's not my job to pat somebody's back for something I made up myself.

I LOL @ your examples of "pretentious" anime when all of those shows are suppose to be pure entertainment, nothing more, nothing less!

 

[Branduil]

Wsippel should watch Angel Beats if he wants to see some truly bad pretentious entertainment.

 

[Reknoc]

Not even a 5MB gif would make anything I wrote less true.

A 5MB gif would seem like a waste when the few KB of text you wrote does just as good a job.

 

[Lafiel]

Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrmbrbQ6c40

lolollolololollololol kamiyama has truly fallen and i thought it couldn't get any worse after EOTE movies!

 

[wsippel]

Evangelion certainly isn't terrible. It's rather weak (but very entertaining) in the writing department, but it's amazingly directed and animated (well, the mechs at least.)

Perhaps you should quit thinking that everyone likes shows for the same reason. Also, all of that stuff has really nothing to do with more technical aspects of shows like animation and such, which you tried to argue against Haruhi as well.

You did read the last part of my post before hitting the "reply" button, right? I'm well aware that not everyone is looking for the same stuff, or likes the same stuff.

Also, I never said Haruhi has bad animations. In fact, they're quite good. I said Horizon has better animations. And considering Horizon is Sunrise, and Sunrise is well known to be pretty damn good in that department, that's not a jab against KyoAni in general or Haruhi in particular.

 

[Branduil]

lolollolololollololol kamiyama has truly fallen and i thought it couldn't get any worse after EOTE movies!

Cool music though. Might be a fun movie to watch with your eyes closed.

 

[Infinite Justice]

lolollolololollololol kamiyama has truly fallen and i thought it couldn't get any worse after EOTE movies!

i like cyborg 009 normally but i'm just not interested in this.

 

[jman2050]

You did read the last part of my post before hitting the "reply" button, right? I'm well aware that not everyone is looking for the same stuff, or likes the same stuff.

Then you actually have no argument. You wanna talk about why Haruhi or any other show is bad, be my guest, but don't go whining and crying and pulling the IMO card when people try to rebut your claims.

 

[wsippel]

Wsippel should watch Angel Beats if he wants to see some truly bad pretentious entertainment.

I did! One of the worst mistakes in my life.


@Lafiel:

So the shows I mentioned don't just fail at entertaining the audience (= me), they aren't even pretentious? That's even worse I guess...

 

[Risette]

You did read the last part of my post before hitting the "reply" button, right? I'm well aware that not everyone is looking for the same stuff, or likes the same stuff.

I did, but you didn't seem to fully read or understand what I said.

Also, I never said Haruhi has bad animations. In fact, they're quite good. I said Horizon has better animations. And considering Horizon is Sunrise, and Sunrise is well known to be pretty damn good in that department, that's not a jab against KyoAni in general or Haruhi in particular.

no

 

[Lafiel]

@Lafiel:
So the shows I mentioned don't just fail at entertaining the audience (= me), they aren't even pretentious? That's even worse I guess...

Well no-one cares if evangelion failed to entertain you, because it sure entertained me and several other people here!

 

[wsippel]

Then you actually have no argument. You wanna talk about why Haruhi or any other show is bad, be my guest, but don't go whining and crying and pulling the IMO card when people try to rebut your claims.

I'd never whine or cry or pull some card when it's about opinions. Don't mistake my incoherent ramblings for actual emotions.

 

[PdotMichael]

some opinions about Chihayafuru?

 

[jman2050]

I'd never whine or cry or pull some card when it's about opinions. Don't mistake my incoherent ramblings for actual emotions.

No, you're not doing this.

I'll reiterate: You actually have no argument. You wanna talk about why Haruhi or any other show is bad, be my guest, but don't go trying to back out or sidetrack the argument when people try to rebut your claims.

 

[wsippel]

No, you're not doing this.

I'll reiterate: You actually have no argument. You wanna talk about why Haruhi or any other show is bad, be my guest, but don't go trying to back out or sidetrack the argument when people try to rebut your claims.

And nobody arguing against what I wrote has an argument, either. So what exactly is your point? I don't sidetrack, and nobody rebutted anything I wrote.

 

[PdotMichael]

And nobody arguing against what I wrote has an argument, either. So what exactly is your point? I don't sidetrack, and nobody rebutted anything I wrote.

you just wrote some opinions without arguments, so I still don't know why Haruhi is a bad show

 

[wsippel]

you just wrote some opinions without arguments, so I still don't know why Haruhi is a bad show

Flat and unlikable characters and a story that makes no sense at all - how's that for a start?

 

[Risette]

I just really, really dislike this:

The problem with animu these days, and the problem we have thread titles like these, is that people think there has to be more to it. There's not. It's entertainment. That's what it's supposed to be. If I have to think about a show, look for a deeper meaning that actually really isn't there, it failed at the one quality it's supposed to have. Haruhi fails. Evangelion fails. Madoka fails. All those shows are actually terrible, but they're so unbelievably bad that people try to see something in them that simply isn't there. I take tits and explosions over philosophical, metaphysical bullshit any day of the week. Because anime authors simply aren't clever enough to do that stuff, and anything I'd try to see in those shows would be my very own imagination. It's not my job to pat somebody's back for something I made up myself.

Saying "these shows are terrible and you only like them if ur looking for some PRE-TENTIOUS ANIME", making an uninformed blanket statement about the ability of all anime writers, and berating the entire medium by saying that it's "just entertainment" is just.. wrong.

I don't care if you say it's just your opinion, you can't go around laying turds of posts like these and expect that nobody will (rightfully) call you out just because you said "well thats just my rambling nonsense opinion lol!"

 

[Instro]

Ro-Kyu-Bu! sold more than 6400 copies. Season 2 is inevitable, YES!

Blood-C sold <1000 copies. Saya is sad

R-15, Itsuten, KamiMemo all mega bomba as well as expected.

Bomba Kamimemo is a bit disappointing.

 

[Geneijin]

Mashiro-Iro Symphony - 1

Reminds me of Hoshizora e Kakaru Hashi except better. It's still a harem anime, but I dig the setup way more than the former title's 1st episode.

 

[Instro]

Mashiro-Iro Symphony - 1

Reminds me of Hoshizora e Kakaru Hashi except better. It's still a harem anime, but I dig the setup way more than the former title's 1st episode.

Sold!

 

[wsippel]

I just really, really dislike this:

Saying "these shows are terrible and you only like them if ur looking for some PRE-TENTIOUS ANIME" is just.. wrong. Because it is.

I don't care if you say it's just your opinion, you can't go around laying turds of posts like these and expect that nobody will call you out just because you said "well thats just my rambling nonsense opinion lol!"

Hey, I got the thread moving, didn't I? Don't take it to heart. Yes, I think the shows I mentioned have no redeeming qualities whatsoever, and I believe anyone who sees a deeper meaning in any of them just makes shit up. Or makes up some weird justifications to watch Reis ass or giant robots. I don't know. I do consider them pretentious and I don't consider them very entertaining, let alone good. Done.

I'm fine with anyone who's honest enough to say "you know, Haruhi is shit, but I like this or that about the show". That's fine. I actually wrote that I like Horizon even though I know it's shit. I have no problem admitting I like Queen's Blade for crying out loud, but I'm old enough not to make up any excuses. I know it's a terrible show. But it still entertains me. Saying "the shitty show I like is better than the shitty show you like, because my shitty show actually isn't shitty" - even though it actually is just as bad - is something I don't like.

 

[Branduil]

Remember when Japanese animators could do this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsOpNpNDWZs

 

[Master Milk]

Ro-Kyu-Bu! sold more than 6400 copies. Season 2 is inevitable, YES!

Missed this last page, but I approve.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

The problem with animu these days, and the problem we have thread titles like these, is that people think there has to be more to it. There's not. It's entertainment. That's what it's supposed to be. If I have to think about a show, look for a deeper meaning that actually really isn't there, it failed at the one quality it's supposed to have. Haruhi fails. Evangelion fails. Madoka fails. All those shows are actually terrible, but they're so unbelievably bad that people try to see something in them that simply isn't there. I take tits and explosions over philosophical, metaphysical bullshit any day of the week. Because anime authors simply aren't clever enough to do that stuff, and anything I'd try to see in those shows would be my very own imagination. It's not my job to pat somebody's back for something I made up myself.

If that's all you need to be entertained, then fine, but acting like that's all that entertainment should aspire to be. Some of us prefer to watch shows that can work on more than one than level. People who want deeper meaning aren't pretentious (well, they could be, but not solely because they want deeper meaning to the things they watch or read), they're simply looking for something different.

For my money, I want to watch things which are good. Sometimes that means something with layers of subtext, and sometimes it's just something that's more simplistic but well executed.

I'm also not sure that anyone in this thread would label the shows you've mentioned as being the poster children of 'anime with deeper meaning'. There's certainly analysis which can be done on each of them, but they're also shows which aspire to be entertaining even to people who aren't looking for anything beneath the surface.

 

[RurouniZel]

Remember when Japanese animators could do this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsOpNpNDWZs

Oh GOD do I miss this kind of stuff. One of the many reasons anime in the 80s-90s blew my mind! It's still done from time to time, but not nearly as often and not as complex normally. :/

 

[Risette]

Hey, I got the thread moving, didn't I? Don't take it to heart. Yes, I think the shows I mentioned have no redeeming qualities whatsoever, and I believe anyone who sees a deeper meaning in any of them just makes shit up. Or makes up some weird justifications to watch Reis ass or giant robots. I don't know. I do consider them pretentious and I don't consider them very entertaining, let alone good. Done.

Still wrong, though. If you can't see redeeming qualities in those three shows, you are letting your view of the shows on a written level cloud your judgement of their other aspects, or just have no idea what you are talking about and/or are extremely dense.

I'm fine with anyone who's honest enough to say "you know, Haruhi is shit, but I like this or that about the show". That's fine. I actually wrote that I like Horizon even though I know it's shit. I have no problem admitting I like Queen's Blade for crying out loud, but I'm old enough not to make up any excuses. I know it's a terrible show. But it still entertains me. Saying "the shitty show I like is better than the shitty show you like, because my shitty show actually isn't shitty" - even though it actually is just as bad - is something I don't like.

So you're only fine with people liking things you don't like as long as they know deep down inside that the things they like are just AWFUL*

Wow, that's an incredibly mature stance on things.

* - according to you

 

[Lafiel]

Tamayura Hitotose 1 - For firehawk12 - ANIME IS SAVED MONO NO AWARE ETC ETC ETC

For everyone else - ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

I genuinely enjoyed the hell out of it though, the highest compliment i can give it, is this is the kind of show I'd go out of the way to watch if all the episodes were available.

It's also much better than that other satojun show last season by satelight probably because satojun is actually directing this!

 

[A Black Falcon]

Fate Stay Night 12 - END

Why did I subject myself to this. T_T

... Wait, you just watched eps 12 to 24 all at once or something? That would indeed be a lot of self-induced pain...

I'm not sure picking a harem show like Haruhi is a great way to prove that OreImo isn't about the relationship between the brother and the sister. And that the lead role girl opposite of the main character isn't exploitatively sexualized at every given opportunity.

This is very true, and indeed, the fact that Kirino is so sexualized definitely is a sign showing you the direction the creators want the fans to be thinking in, even if it technically doesn't happen

Spoiler

yet

.

its not a troll

Well, I found some spoilers, and from what I've read, it's sort of in between I think... (LN spoilers)

Spoiler

The main two characters don't have a romantic relationship, yet at least, but as the series goes on they steadily get closer, and closer, over time. The end result that suggests might happen is obvious, even if a few people continue to deny it. Like, at one point wasn't it revealed that Kirino had gotten sick or whatever it was because of how unhappy she was at being apart from her brother (why she'd come home from America I think, at the beginning of the series or something? I forget the details)?

You could just call that a standard anime plot/female character type, but I'd call it sexist incest-baiting for sure, and sexism, of course, is the thing I dislike most about anime, far more than incest.

Overall though it really doesn't matter which way it goes, because just by constantly keeping that question out there the series makes its point well enough. I don't think it needs actual confirmed incest to be solid fanservice for incest fans, it just needs to keep the question out there... The show isn't the problem, but it is sad in how it shows yet again how popular incest is in anime fandom, which is pretty disturbing really. I have no idea why it's become so popular, but it shouldn't be. (It's not that one show has it somewhere, it's that it's so common that's the issue.) At least in the case of sexism, the explanation is obvious -- Japan is sexist, so anime is too. I'm not so sure if incest is so popular there, outside of otaku, though (I would not expect it), so I'm not so sure what the explanation is there...

 

[Geneijin]

I'm fine with anyone who's honest enough to say "you know, Haruhi is shit, but I like this or that about the show". That's fine. I actually wrote that I like Horizon even though I know it's shit. I have no problem admitting I like Queen's Blade for crying out loud, but I'm old enough not to make up any excuses. I know it's a terrible show. But it still entertains me. Saying "the shitty show I like is better than the shitty show you like, because my shitty show actually isn't shitty" - even though it actually is just as bad - is something I don't like.

Except the shitty show I like is better than the shitty show you like because my shitty show actually isn't as shitty as the show you like, so they're not equally bad shows. Same with "good" shows. In this case, you think Haruhi is shit and Horizon is shit, but now you're going back on your earlier argument:

EDIT: Sorry, Haruhi is shit. Honest to god shit. If you think it has any redeeming qualities, you're wrong. Even the first episode of Horizon is a billion times better than anything even remotely Haruhi related could ever hope to be.

So which is it: Haruhi is shit and Horizon is a billion times better or is Haruhi and Horizon equally shitty?

 

[wsippel]

Still wrong, though. If you can't see redeeming qualities in those three shows, you are letting your view of the shows on a written level cloud your judgement of their other aspects, or just have no idea what you are talking about and/or are extremely dense.

I watched all three shows, I have a very good idea what I'm talking about, and I don't bend rays of light yet. So I guess the explanation is actually far simpler: I'm right. Also, I'm teasing you, in case you didn't notice.

So you're only fine with people liking things you don't like as long as they know deep down inside that the things they like are just AWFUL*

Wow, that's an incredibly mature stance on things.

* - according to you

Pretty much everything is actually awful. That realization is part of achieving maturity, sadly.

 

[Dresden]

Pretty much everything is actually awful. That realization is part of achieving maturity, sadly.

crawling
in
my skinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

these wounds
they are
not reallllllllllllllllllllllllll

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I hope the Angel Beats character loses.

Yui-nyan should have no problems winning that weak ass group.

 

[wsippel]

Except the shitty show I like is better than the shitty show you like because my shitty show actually isn't as shitty as the show you like, so they're not equally bad shows. Same with "good" shows. In this case, you think Haruhi is shit and Horizon is shit, but now you're going back on your earlier argument:

So which is it: Haruhi is shit and Horizon is a billion times better or is Haruhi and Horizon equally shitty?

Why did you do that? You have a smugdouche avatar, I believed you were on my side...

They're both terrible in the writing department, but Horizon has bigger boobs and more explosions. That alone makes it a billion times better by default.

 

[Erigu]

Hey, I got the thread moving, didn't I?

Not sure what we would have done without you.

 

[Risette]

I watched all three shows, I have a very good idea what I'm talking about, and I don't bend rays of light yet. So I guess the explanation is actually far simpler: I'm right. Also, I'm teasing you, in case you didn't notice.

Watching them doesn't give you an idea of what you're talking about. If you can't see any redeeming qualities in those three shows, such as direction, animation, or style, you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to anime. Pretty simple!

Also, are you going to back out of everything you say? "just my opinion " "oh thats just me and my incoherent ramblings " "ah just teasing you "

It's almost like you realize that you're wrong.

Pretty much everything is actually awful. That realization is part of achieving maturity, sadly.

Whether or not things that people like are awful or not have nothing to do with what I said.

I dislike a lot of things that people like and think/know they are awful, but I don't put such an importance on myself that I would say that it's okay for people to like things I don't like as long as they realize they are bad according to me. That's incredibly immature.

 

[Branduil]

I dislike a lot of things that people like and think/know they are awful, but I don't put such an importance on myself that I would say that it's okay for people to like things I don't like as long as they realize they are bad according to me. That's incredibly immature.

Not even SHAFT shows?

 

[Risette]

Not even SHAFT shows?

Nope! I can see why people like them; and even love them. To say that it's only okay to like something you love as long as you realize it's "shit" is incredibly belittling to a person.

I may joke around a lot but I'm not that sort of person!

 

[Branduil]

Nope! I can see why people like them; and even love them. To say that it's only okay to like something you love as long as you realize it's "shit" is incredibly belittling to a person.

I may joke around a lot but I'm not that sort of person!

There's hope for you yet.

 

[wsippel]

crawling
in
my skinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

these wounds
they are
not reallllllllllllllllllllllllll

After reading this and looking at your avatar, I realized that neither Haruhi nor Horizon are actually all that bad. Thanks Dresden!

Watching them doesn't give you an idea of what you're talking about. If you can't see any redeeming qualities in those three shows, such as direction, animation, or style, you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to anime. Pretty simple!

Also, are you going to back out of everything you say? "just my opinion " "oh thats just me and my incoherent ramblings " "ah just teasing you "

It's almost like you realize that you're wrong.

Sorry, I don't. Also, I really don't see any redeeming qualities in the animations, styles or directions, either. Nothing other shows didn't do much better, at least. The music in all three shows sucks as well. Now what?

You argue I don't know what I'm talking about, but maybe it's actually the other way around? Ever thought about that? Maybe I simply watched so much stuff that I'm not that easy to impress or please anymore? Maybe I like shallow, honest, straight forward stuff because I already had my share or convoluted, pretentious shit? Certainly a possibility, right?

Whether or not things that people like are awful or not have nothing to do with what I said.

I dislike a lot of things that people like and think/know they are awful, but I don't put such an importance on myself that I would say that it's okay for people to like things I don't like as long as they realize they are bad according to me. That's incredibly immature.

You don't really get it, do you? Everything is shit. The stuff I like, the stuff you like, the stuff Ebert likes...

No, that's actually not the case at all. And it wasn't my point. My point was that people compare stuff they don't like to stuff they like, claiming the stuff they like is better, without actually thinking about it. In their opinion, it's not better because it's actually better, it's better because they like it. And that's rather one dimensional. Stuff isn't good because you like it. Maybe you like it because it's good. That's rare, though. Especially in art or entertainment. You usually like stuff because it touches you in some way. And that's cool. But that's also all there is to it.

 

[Lafiel]

Usagi drop 11 - This was a really good show and i don't have much to say other than that. I do find it to be pretty overrated as far as anime goes this year though

Spoiler

wandering son was better

.

 

[Geneijin]

Why did you do that? You have a smugdouche avatar, I believed you were on my side...

They're both terrible in the writing department, but Horizon has bigger boobs and more explosions. That alone makes it a billion times better by default.

Answer the question.

I like Horizon but you're backtracking right now. You even acknowledged the terrible exposition at the beginning of Horizon's first episode yourself:

There were? Didn't notice. You mean the stuff at the beginning? I was too busy trying to understand the god aweful, yet totally fabulous character designs I guess...

The writing for both shows aren't comparably terrible at all.

 

[CornBurrito]

Thursday cannot come soon enough.

 

[Branduil]

Thursday cannot come soon enough.

Gotta get that next hit of saving anime.

 

[Geneijin]

You don't really get it, do you? Everything is shit. The stuff I like, the stuff you like, the stuff Ebert likes...

No, that's actually not the case at all. And it wasn't my point. My point was that people compare stuff they don't like to stuff they like, claiming the stuff they like is better, without actually thinking about it. In their opinion, it's not better because it's actually better, it's better because they like it. And that's rather one dimensional. Stuff isn't good because you like it. Maybe you like it because it's good. That's rare, though. Especially in art or entertainment. You usually like stuff because it touches you in some way. And that's cool. But that's also all there is to it.

Isn't that exactly what you're doing? You didn't like Haruhi, and you're comparing it to something you did like like Horizon, claiming it's better because you like Horizon more than Haruhi when it's not actually better?

 

[Risette]

Sorry, I don't. Also, I really don't see any redeeming qualities in the animations, styles or directions, either. Nothing other shows didn't do much better, at least. The music in all three shows sucks as well. Now what?

If you think there are more than a few TV anime that have much better direction and mechanical animation than Eva TV, well: lol.

Next, there was clearly something stand out about Madoka's style if it attracted the attention of damn near the entire anime watching populace of the internet, including people who normally wouldn't go near a magical girl show. It even got popular enough on the internet that Aniplex announced an English disc release months after it aired -- very rare for a magical girl show in the non-Japanese anime market in this day and age.

I don't even think I need to cover Haruhi, considering how large it's impact was. I don't even like it much (also I don't like Madoka at all, just sayin) but I recognize why it's become such a thing. For what it's worth my opinion is that Haruhi S1 is pretty well directed and animated, it's just the writing and character designs that let it down and cause me to not care that much for it.

It doesn't take much to figure out why people like some things, or to find some redeeming qualities within, but you just seem to be unable to accept anything good about things you don't like. That takes us back to the point of immaturity, I suppose..

You argue I don't know what I'm talking about, but maybe it's actually the other way around? Ever thought about that? Maybe I simply watched so much stuff that I'm not that easy to impress or please anymore? Maybe I like shallow, honest, straight forward stuff because I already had my share or convoluted, pretentious shit? Certainly a possibility, right?

No.

No, that's actually not the case at all. And it wasn't my point. My point was that people compare stuff they don't like to stuff they like, claiming the stuff they like is better, without actually thinking about it. In their opinion, it's not better because it's actually better, it's better because they like it. And that's rather one dimensional. Stuff isn't good because you like it. Maybe you like it because it's good. That's rare, though. Especially in art or entertainment. You usually like stuff because it touches you in some way. And that's cool. But that's also all there is to it.

Man, this is some grade-A class drivel. I wish I saw this garbage before I took the time to write out an actual response to you.

 

[Crash Station]

Smugdouche>anything in Haruhi. Therefore Horizon wins.

Gintadance

Well this was definitely better than Sketama. Loved the Toriko x One Piece crossover parody and the hammer dick jokes.

1 episode to go!

 

[Branduil]

I can't believe the two shows causing meltdowns this season are Fate/Zero and Horizon.

Smugdouche>anything in Haruhi. Therefore Horizon wins.

I submit this as evidence of Haruhi's superiority.

 

[wsippel]

Answer the question.

I like Horizon but you're backtracking right now. You even acknowledged the terrible exposition at the beginning of Horizon's first episode yourself:

The writing for both shows aren't comparably terrible at all.

How the fuck am I supposed to know? Read the stuff you quoted: I didn't read the subtitles. I have no idea what was said or how terrible the writing was. And I didn't care. I had my fabulous character designs to look at, and that was good enough. Considering it doesn't get much worse than Haruhi's writing, it doesn't really matter, though. At least Horizon doesn't even try to come across believable. Maybe the problem was the realistic setting or something, maybe it would have been better with a gay incubus, lesbian witches and a flying blackface serving curry, but it tried to be realistic at times, then complete asspulls happened without any rational explanation whatsoever, and those weren't even fun or funny. That's bad writing. I can deal with a few minutes of braindead exposition and random shit happening as long as it's awesome.

And again, that doesn't mean I consider the writing in Horizon better. All I say is that I can deal with a stupid script as long as the end product entertains me. Maybe some people like the unfunny randomness in Haruhi. Maybe some people like something else about the show. And a lot of people like the show, so there's obviously something to like. Whatever it is, I either didn't notice it or it didn't entice me.

 

[Infinite Justice]

I can't believe the two shows causing meltdowns this season are Fate/Zero and Horizon.

I have a feeling Persona 4 might join this as well..