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2011 Fall Anime Thread - Bad Shows & Self Hating Nerds
- Thread starter Dresden
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wsippel said:If it takes being a zombie to have fun, I'm glad to be a zombie.
EDIT: Sorry, Haruhi is shit. Honest to god shit. If you think it has any redeeming qualities, you're wrong. Even the first episode of Horizon is a billion times better than anything even remotely Haruhi related could ever hope to be.
Yeah you might be exaggerating... just a tad.
May Haruhi save you.
EDIT: Wow, I just read through the next stuff
wsippel said:How the fuck am I supposed to know? Read the stuff you quoted: I didn't read the subtitles. I have no idea what was said or how terrible the writing was. And I didn't care. I had my fabulous character designs to look at, and that was good enough. Considering it doesn't get much worse than Haruhi's writing, it doesn't really matter, though. At least Horizon doesn't even try to come across believable. Maybe the problem was the realistic setting or something, maybe it would have been better with a gay incubus, lesbian witches and a flying blackface serving curry, but it tried to be realistic at times, then complete asspulls happened without any rational explanation whatsoever, and those weren't even fun or funny. That's bad writing. I can deal with a few minutes of braindead exposition and random shit happening as long as it's awesome.
And again, that doesn't mean I consider the writing in Horizon better. All I say is that I can deal with a stupid script as long as the end product entertains me. Maybe some people like the unfunny randomness in Haruhi. Maybe some people like something else about the show. And a lot of people like the show, so there's obviously something to like. Whatever it is, I either didn't notice it or it didn't entice me.
I take it back. You're delusional and a drama queen to boot.
You don't even know the story and you're already making blanket statements regarding a ton of shows a lot of people like. Good job.
Instro said:Pages of arguing about writing quality, and he hasn't even read the subs. Amazing. Why even bother with the comparison?
Character design and animation, man.
See, this is why 7th and his ilk must never roam the Earth. We get retarded arguments like this one.
Because it's easier to assert than analyze.Instro said:Pages of arguing about writing quality, and he hasn't even read the subs. Amazing. Why even bother with the comparison?
Crash Station
Member
Hitokage said:Because it's easier to assert than analyze.
The argument sucks.
I see you already mastered that art as well:Aigis said:That takes us back to the point of immaturity, I suppose..
Yep. Great stuff.
What? I answered your question.wsippel said:I see you already mastered that art as well:
Yep. Great stuff.
Now, cutting off the rest of my post and taking a few words from it to make a cheap shot.. I guess you have no real response. What a shame.
I didn't start the argument about writing quality. I don't even care, in case you didn't notice (especially not about dialogue, as that's a) only part of the writing and b) very dependent on the translator). It was all about this one sentence: "You can be self-aware and well made, like Haruhi." - and I personally consider that show neither all that self-aware nor well made (in the story department). Details about the writing outside the context of self-awareness are therefore almost entirely irrelevant.Instro said:Pages of arguing about writing quality, and he hasn't even read the subs. Amazing. Why even bother with the comparison?
Yet you still made a judgment about the writing quality of Haruhi even when you didn't read the subtitles of Horizon nor cared about them. That's just plain ignorance on your behalf.wsippel said:I didn't start the argument about writing quality. I don't even care, in case you didn't notice (especially not about dialogue, as that's a) only part of the writing and b) very dependent on the translator). It was all about this one sentence: "You can be self-aware and well made, like Haruhi." - and I personally consider that show is neither all that self-aware nor well made. Details about the writing outside the context of self-awareness are therefore almost entirely irrelevant.
It isn't, because I don't compare the writing. I called the writing in Haruhi bad. I can judge that part, because I actually watched that show and did read the subtitles. And it is bad. That has nothing to do with Horizon's writing. And it's also not important if Horizons writing is any better or worse, either. I never argued either way, and it's not relevant to the point I made: Haruhi is not better in the "self-awareness department". You don't need a single sentence to realize that Horizon is highly self-aware. They get that point across within a few minutes, without any character speaking even a single sentence.Geneijin said:Yet you still made a judgment about the writing quality of Haruhi even when you didn't read the subtitles of Horizon nor cared about them. That's just plain ignorance on your behalf.
Quote that for me then. Also, that was never once your initial argument. Why are you sidetracking again?wsippel said:It isn't, because I don't compare the writing. I called the writing in Haruhi bad. I can judge that part, because I actually watched that show and did read the subtitles. And it is bad. That has nothing to do with Horizon's writing. And it's also not important if Horizons writing is any better or worse, either. I never argued either way, and it's not relevant to the point I made: Haruhi is not better in the "self-awareness department". You don't need a single sentence to realize that Horizon is highly self-aware. They get that point across within a few minutes, without any character speaking even a single sentence.
Look, you basically said you had no idea what was said or how terrible the writing was in Horizon because you didn't read the subtitles nor understood what was said, yet you still wanted to make a ignorant point Haruhi has worse writing, etc when you never bothered to ascertain that? Why even make the argument in the first place?wsippel said:How the fuck am I supposed to know? Read the stuff you quoted: I didn't read the subtitles. I have no idea what was said or how terrible the writing was. And I didn't care. I had my fabulous character designs to look at, and that was good enough. Considering it doesn't get much worse than Haruhi's writing, it doesn't really matter, though.
When you're totally fine with Horizon's writing, which isn't a problem, yet you're accusing Haruhi of not only bad writing, but the one of the worse ever while ignoring the writing problems in Horizon, you're in no position to make such a claim. Especially when you're willingly ignoring the bad writing in Horizon because it appeases your entertainment value somehow with things unrelated to the actual writing, which is notably a better example of bad writing than Haruhi's.At least Horizon doesn't even try to come across believable. Maybe the problem was the realistic setting or something, maybe it would have been better with a gay incubus, lesbian witches and a flying blackface serving curry, but it tried to be realistic at times, then complete asspulls happened without any rational explanation whatsoever, and those weren't even fun or funny. That's bad writing. I can deal with a few minutes of braindead exposition and random shit happening as long as it's awesome.
I've got a better idea:wsippel said:I'm fine with anyone who's honest enough to say "you know, Haruhi is shit, but I like this or that about the show". That's fine. I actually wrote that I like Horizon even though I know it's shit. I have no problem admitting I like Queen's Blade for crying out loud, but I'm old enough not to make up any excuses. I know it's a terrible show. But it still entertains me. Saying "the shitty show I like is better than the shitty show you like, because my shitty show actually isn't shitty" - even though it actually is just as bad - is something I don't like.
Things you like = shit
Things I like = fantastic
Done!
Weren't you saying before that tits and explosions automatically make a show better?wsippel said:You argue I don't know what I'm talking about, but maybe it's actually the other way around? Ever thought about that? Maybe I simply watched so much stuff that I'm not that easy to impress or please anymore?
Sket Dance 24-25
So I finally made it to the two episodes people were going on about and, yeah, this was some pretty powerful stuff. Switch was already my favorite character in the show but goddamn, this gives him so much more depth it's not even funny. I get the feeling it's gonna be tough looking at him the same way from now on.
So I finally made it to the two episodes people were going on about and, yeah, this was some pretty powerful stuff. Switch was already my favorite character in the show but goddamn, this gives him so much more depth it's not even funny. I get the feeling it's gonna be tough looking at him the same way from now on.
Somebody needs to watch Mad Bull 34!Krev said:Weren't you saying before that tits and explosions automatically make a show better?
You did by making a comparison actually:wsippel said:It isn't, because I don't compare the writing. I called the writing in Haruhi bad. I can judge that part, because I actually watched that show and did read the subtitles. And it is bad. That has nothing to do with Horizon's writing. And it's also not important if Horizons writing is any better or worse, either. I never argued either way, and it's not relevant to the point I made: Haruhi is not better in the "self-awareness department". You don't need a single sentence to realize that Horizon is highly self-aware. They get that point across within a few minutes, without any character speaking even a single sentence.
They're not. Horizon definitely has better character designs. At least they're imaginative and not generic as fuck. Haruhi's script make just as much (or little (or even less)) sense, and Horizon definitely has better animations. Dunno about editing, don't remember Haruhi all that well. But it's probably worse in that aspect as well.
Also: Fuck rhyme and reason.
Truly, Manga video was a benevolent master guiding us through anime's best days.Hitokage said:Somebody needs to watch Mad Bull 34!
Unknown Soldier
Member
Infinite Justice said:I have a feeling Persona 4 might join this as well..
I'm going to have to prepare a swimming pool sized pot of crow for all the doubters.
I got all excited when it said "a kenji kamiyama" film and then......................................................................... -______-duckroll said:
I'm not sidetracking, my initial post was a response to this: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=31525000&postcount=4521Geneijin said:Quote that for me then. Also, that was never once your initial argument. Why are you sidetracking again?
As you can see, it was always about comparing self-awareness and overall presentation, not writing in particular. I guess I should have made that clearer in subsequent posts.
I simply consider the writing in Haruhi so bad that it can't get much worse. Maybe Horizon will manage to achieve that feat in the end (it's a bit early to tell after just one episode - and I doubt it, as I've written in the post you quoted), but Haruhi already set the bar quite high - or low, depending on how you look at it.Look, you basically said you had no idea what was said or how terrible the writing was in Horizon because you didn't read the subtitles nor understood what was said, yet you still wanted to make a ignorant point Haruhi was worse when you never bothered to ascertain that? Why even make the argument in the first place?
I don't really get your point. I'm fine with bad writing as long as the show is still overall entertaining. And I didn't consider Haruhi entertaining - it didn't have a good plot and there was nothing there to offset that shortcoming. To me, at least. I don't see what's wrong with that? So again: It doesn't matter if Horizon's writing is better, as the initial point of the whole discussion wasn't writing, but self-awareness. Horizon is more obviously self-aware, right? And there's also no arguing it's well made I guess.When you're totally fine with Horizon's writing, which isn't a problem, yet you're accusing Haruhi of not only bad writing, but the one of the worse ever while ignoring the writing problems in Horizon, you're in no position to make such a claim. Especially when you're willingly ignoring the bad writing in Horizon because it appeases your entertainment value somehow with things unrelated to the actual writing, which is notably a better example of bad writing than Haruhi's.
It certainly is quite bad. But I already like smugdouche and his stupid sister, so that's something. All they need now is a plot that at least makes some sense in itself. So far, it doesn't, but that's understandable. It's fantasy, they first need to establish a context.Branduil said:To be fair, writing is a lot more than just dialogue. I feel safe in saying the writing in Horizon is quite bad without knowing the particulars of what the characters are saying.
Fate/Zero 1
Well, I can't help having been influenced by all the discussion on this over the last half-week, but...
Yes, it was mostly one massive chunk of backstory, getting us acquainted with most of the major characters and drawing the preliminary battle lines, though for someone like me, mostly a newbie to the Fate franchise, it was kinda necessary. It was pretty dry, with a lot of talking heads, but I don't know the pacing of the original story and didn't really mind it too much. If it stays bland, then I guess we have a problem on our hands.
Anyway, aside from all the arguing over the technicalities, I like the show itself (setting, characters, plot) a lot. Especially with the way they handled the OP and credits, I viewed this like a short introductory movie, and have enough patience to see when things will really kick into gear this Saturday.
Well, I can't help having been influenced by all the discussion on this over the last half-week, but...
Yes, it was mostly one massive chunk of backstory, getting us acquainted with most of the major characters and drawing the preliminary battle lines, though for someone like me, mostly a newbie to the Fate franchise, it was kinda necessary. It was pretty dry, with a lot of talking heads, but I don't know the pacing of the original story and didn't really mind it too much. If it stays bland, then I guess we have a problem on our hands.
Anyway, aside from all the arguing over the technicalities, I like the show itself (setting, characters, plot) a lot. Especially with the way they handled the OP and credits, I viewed this like a short introductory movie, and have enough patience to see when things will really kick into gear this Saturday.
Chihayafuru 1
This turned out to be really pleasant. Looks nice; the plot and characters seem interesting enough. The main girl seems likeable, which is a good plus. In particular I enjoyed the music, which was really solid and used pretty effectively during the episode. The drama will probably be pretty standard, I like that they already
. I'm totally down for some well directed love drama revolving around a weird card game, hope it keeps up over the 25 episodes.
This turned out to be really pleasant. Looks nice; the plot and characters seem interesting enough. The main girl seems likeable, which is a good plus. In particular I enjoyed the music, which was really solid and used pretty effectively during the episode. The drama will probably be pretty standard, I like that they already
introduced the love triangle right off the bat
hosannainexcelsis
Member
Chihayafuru 1
Beautifully and atmospherically shot, with good use of lighting and composition. Combined with the excellent music and sound direction, it makes this show quite compelling. Young tomboy Chihaya is a lovely character with lots of personality. Kurata does seem like a simple game; it only tests memorization and reflexes with no possibility for strategy, at least on the surface. Still, with the right treatment like we had a bit of at the end of this episode, I can see the games being very exciting. I look forward to the rest of the series.
Beautifully and atmospherically shot, with good use of lighting and composition. Combined with the excellent music and sound direction, it makes this show quite compelling. Young tomboy Chihaya is a lovely character with lots of personality. Kurata does seem like a simple game; it only tests memorization and reflexes with no possibility for strategy, at least on the surface. Still, with the right treatment like we had a bit of at the end of this episode, I can see the games being very exciting. I look forward to the rest of the series.
Aigis said:
I dont see how using an opening sequence is an indication of background animation in anime
hell, every one piece intro does it
hosannainexcelsis
Member
wsippel said:It certainly is quite bad. But I already like smugdouche and his stupid sister, so that's something. All they need now is a plot that at least makes some sense in itself. So far, it doesn't, but that's understandable. It's fantasy, they first need to establish a context.
I've read spoilers for the first light novel and
it never makes sense.
Guilty CrownCalcaneus said:So what shows don't suck this season?
It was animated by a Japanese animator.Uchip said:I dont see how using an opening sequence is an indication of background animation in anime
hell, every one piece intro does it
It was just an add-on to background animation stuff, not really for a point on anything. I just felt like linking a video with cool background animation.
Calcaneus said:So what shows don't suck this season?
its a bit early to be making this call
Aigis said:It was animated by a Japanese animator.
It was just an add-on to background animation stuff, not really for a point on anything. I just felt like linking a video with cool background animation.
oh
see i thought you were trying to prove a point
the only example of nice background animation i can think of recently, is the last few episodes of eureka7 had some great stuff
FMAB Ep52 had some great background animation, animated by the same guy* who did the Soul Eater OP I linked. Incidentally, he was also the director of FMAB.Uchip said:oh
see i thought you were trying to prove a point
the only example of nice background animation i can think of recently, is the last few episodes of eureka7 had some great stuff
Daily reminder that BONES is awesome.
* -
duckroll/someone else correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure it was him!
hosannainexcelsis
Member
Calcaneus said:So what shows don't suck this season?
New shows? We only have one episode of each to judge by, but for now: Chihayafuru and Tamayura are good, as expected. Phi Brain, while slight, is an enjoyable romp. So is Hunter x Hunter, though it's not as good as the original anime.
Crash Station
Member
Calcaneus said:So what shows don't suck this season?
Phi Brain is fun, HxH is good but maybe a bit too fast-paced for those that haven't seen the original, Ika Musume is the same as the last show and Horizon is amazing.
Chihayafuru 1: I just can't help but think there could of been a more fun card game to use. On the episode itself, it's quite pleasing visually. Nice colours and backgrounds. The writing was fairly standard fare. Card flicking abilities aside, I do kind of like Chihaya's energy. Can't say much about the characters until they develop more but I don't find any of them dislikable. It's decent enough to give more time I'd say.
There was also a ipod+headphone shot for Geneijin.
There was also a ipod+headphone shot for Geneijin.
Joule said:Chihayafuru 1: I just can't help but think there could of been a more fun card game to use. On the episode itself, it's quite pleasing visually. Nice colours and backgrounds. The writing was fairly standard fare. Card flicking abilities aside, I do kind of like Chihaya's energy. Can't say much about the characters until they develop more but I don't find any of them dislikable. It's decent enough to give more time I'd say.
There was also a ipod+headphone shot for Geneijin.
Yeah like solitaire.
Branduil said:I can't believe the two shows causing meltdowns this season are Fate/Zero and Horizon.
We got to get past that 20k mark somehow.
Calcaneus said:So what shows don't suck this season?
I like this defensive mentality, not asking what is good for the season, but what doesn't suck.
So far, Phi Brain and Squid Girl.
Ahahaha, as soon as I saw that shot I was thinking Geneijin will be using it as his wallpaper within the week.Joule said:Chihayafuru 1: I just can't help but think there could of been a more fun card game to use. On the episode itself, it's quite pleasing visually. Nice colours and backgrounds. The writing was fairly standard fare. Card flicking abilities aside, I do kind of like Chihaya's energy. Can't say much about the characters until they develop more but I don't find any of them dislikable. It's decent enough to give more time I'd say.
There was also a ipod+headphone shot for Geneijin.
A Black Falcon said:... Wait, you just watched eps 12 to 24 all at once or something? That would indeed be a lot of self-induced pain...
I... I took little breaks inbetween episodes... but yeah... Came into the show expecting some type of battle summon thing, and all I got was mai waifu is King Arthur crap. T_T
wsippel, stop trying to backtrack, sidetrack, and diffuse blame.
This is how it began:
This was what started the discussion in the first place. You calling Haruhi shit and Horizon's 1st episode being a billion times better than anything Haruhi-related.
And then your first exchange here:
That was the main point of contention. That Haruhi's script was comparative to Horizon's. Editing perhaps too.
So here you elaborate how bad Haruhi is:
So Haruhi is a bad show with no redeeming qualities basically. And due to your prior comments, Horizon is a billion times better than anything Haruhi-related.
Another reply you made to another poster:
Alright, so you mainly don't find the characters likable in Haruhi. Fine. However, "no visible direction" nor "interesting story" is highly debatable, yet it never came to that because of your following reply:
So you were defining "entertainment" and suggesting this is how entertainment should be by your definition to defend Horizon while practically insulting what you call "pretentious bullshit" as being terrible shows inherently because subtext is essentially non-existent and only imagined/create by the audience? That's not a good argumentative point and rather insulting with such a blanket statement, which deflected/sidetracked the current discussion since your argument only isn't about how bad Haruhi is now, but also, how bad it is due to your value of "entertainment" you're judging Haruhi with. It's fine you don't like Haruhi or think it's bad even (I don't like Haruhi that much either), but I think it's a weak argument to make why Haruhi is a bad show if you simply hate shows with subtext.
And when confronted about your recent accusation:
And then our exchange:
Except Haruhi doesn't suffer from the same problems as Horizon.
With you ignoring the question:
Which says nothing about the writing. You're sidetracking the argument.
Also, there's this statement you made:
Which is pretty asinine and detracting from the argument even further because now are you trying to imply those who like Haruhi's writing more or thought was better than Horizon's is because they like it, so which in turn means it's good writing?
And then this is where the argument stops:
So you really had no argument to begin with and sidetracked yourself.
So what were you even trying to argue?
This is how it began:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=31527177&postcount=4531wsippel said:EDIT: Sorry, Haruhi is shit. Honest to god shit. If you think it has any redeeming qualities, you're wrong. Even the first episode of Horizon is a billion times better than anything even remotely Haruhi related could ever hope to be.
This was what started the discussion in the first place. You calling Haruhi shit and Horizon's 1st episode being a billion times better than anything Haruhi-related.
And then your first exchange here:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=31527564&postcount=4533Jexhius said:This position seems a bit...extreme, even if you don't like Haruhi as a show. It's character designs, cinematography, photography, animation, script and editing are all far better than Horizon. I think Haurhi is a pretty weak series, but it's actually constructed very well.
The same cannot be said of Horizon, which is a random selection of scenes slotted together with no rhyme or reason.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=31527689&postcount=4534wsippel said:They're not. Horizon definitely has better character designs. At least they're imaginative and not generic as fuck. Haruhi's script make just as much (or little (or even less)) sense, and Horizon definitely has better animations. Dunno about editing, don't remember Haruhi all that well. But it's probably worse in that aspect as well.
Also: Fuck rhyme and reason.
That was the main point of contention. That Haruhi's script was comparative to Horizon's. Editing perhaps too.
So here you elaborate how bad Haruhi is:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=31527850&postcount=4537wsippel said:It is? Could have fooled me.
It's not. It's a really, really bad show, with terrible characters, a nonsensical script, terrible designs and no redeeming qualities whatsoever.
So Haruhi is a bad show with no redeeming qualities basically. And due to your prior comments, Horizon is a billion times better than anything Haruhi-related.
Another reply you made to another poster:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=31528201&postcount=4545wsippel said:It took me a piss to even remember who Kyon was. So no. No visible direction, no interesting story, no likable characters. Smugdouche might be an asshole, but at least I can relate to him. Kyon is a faceless loser. And Haruhi is just as abusive, but far less likable than even Louise from Zero no Something.
Alright, so you mainly don't find the characters likable in Haruhi. Fine. However, "no visible direction" nor "interesting story" is highly debatable, yet it never came to that because of your following reply:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=31529004&postcount=4547wsippel said:The problem with animu these days, and the problem we have thread titles like these, is that people think there has to be more to it. There's not. It's entertainment. That's what it's supposed to be. If I have to think about a show, look for a deeper meaning that actually really isn't there, it failed at the one quality it's supposed to have. Haruhi fails. Evangelion fails. Madoka fails. All those shows are actually terrible, but they're so unbelievably bad that people try to see something in them that simply isn't there. I take tits and explosions over philosophical, metaphysical bullshit any day of the week. Because anime authors simply aren't clever enough to do that stuff, and anything I'd try to see in those shows would be my very own imagination. It's not my job to pat somebody's back for something I made up myself.
And by the way, I have nothing against KyoAni. They did FMP, which is one of my favorite shows, anime or otherwise, ever. That shit was honest. No bullshit, no deeper meaning - it was simply there to entertain the viewer, and it succeeded.
Then again, I guess I have a very different taste than most of anime GAF, so feel free to ignore my ramblings. What I wrote is just my opinion. I hate pretentious bullshit, and I consider many beloved anime shows pretentious bullshit.
So you were defining "entertainment" and suggesting this is how entertainment should be by your definition to defend Horizon while practically insulting what you call "pretentious bullshit" as being terrible shows inherently because subtext is essentially non-existent and only imagined/create by the audience? That's not a good argumentative point and rather insulting with such a blanket statement, which deflected/sidetracked the current discussion since your argument only isn't about how bad Haruhi is now, but also, how bad it is due to your value of "entertainment" you're judging Haruhi with. It's fine you don't like Haruhi or think it's bad even (I don't like Haruhi that much either), but I think it's a weak argument to make why Haruhi is a bad show if you simply hate shows with subtext.
And when confronted about your recent accusation:
you try to diffuse blame by stating that, and from your previous comment:wsippel said:I'd never whine or cry or pull some card when it's about opinions. Don't mistake my incoherent ramblings for actual emotions.
You were trying to lessen blame for your opinions. Which is it? Because if you really didn't care, you had no argument to begin with.Then again, I guess I have a very different taste than most of anime GAF, so feel free to ignore my ramblings. What I wrote is just my opinion. I hate pretentious bullshit, and I consider many beloved anime shows pretentious bullshit.
And then our exchange:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=31531129&postcount=4573wsippel said:I'm fine with anyone who's honest enough to say "you know, Haruhi is shit, but I like this or that about the show". That's fine. I actually wrote that I like Horizon even though I know it's shit. I have no problem admitting I like Queen's Blade for crying out loud, but I'm old enough not to make up any excuses. I know it's a terrible show. But it still entertains me. Saying "the shitty show I like is better than the shitty show you like, because my shitty show actually isn't shitty" - even though it actually is just as bad - is something I don't like.
Except Haruhi doesn't suffer from the same problems as Horizon.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=31531934&postcount=4581Geneijin said:Except the shitty show I like is better than the shitty show you like because my shitty show actually isn't as shitty as the show you like, so they're not equally bad shows. Same with "good" shows. In this case, you think Haruhi is shit and Horizon is shit, but now you're going back on your earlier argument:
So which is it: Haruhi is shit and Horizon is a billion times better or is Haruhi and Horizon equally shitty?
With you ignoring the question:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=31532145&postcount=4585wsippel said:They're both terrible in the writing department, but Horizon has bigger boobs and more explosions. That alone makes it a billion times better by default.
Which says nothing about the writing. You're sidetracking the argument.
Also, there's this statement you made:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=31532479&postcount=4591wsippel said:No, that's actually not the case at all. And it wasn't my point. My point was that people compare stuff they don't like to stuff they like, claiming the stuff they like is better, without actually thinking about it. In their opinion, it's not better because it's actually better, it's better because they like it. And that's rather one dimensional. Stuff isn't good because you like it. Maybe you like it because it's good. That's rare, though. Especially in art or entertainment. You usually like stuff because it touches you in some way. And that's cool. But that's also all there is to it.?
Which is pretty asinine and detracting from the argument even further because now are you trying to imply those who like Haruhi's writing more or thought was better than Horizon's is because they like it, so which in turn means it's good writing?
And then this is where the argument stops:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=31533480&postcount=4600wsippel said:How the fuck am I supposed to know? Read the stuff you quoted: I didn't read the subtitles. I have no idea what was said or how terrible the writing was. And I didn't care. I had my fabulous character designs to look at, and that was good enough. Considering it doesn't get much worse than Haruhi's writing, it doesn't really matter, though. At least Horizon doesn't even try to come across believable. Maybe the problem was the realistic setting or something, maybe it would have been better with a gay incubus, lesbian witches and a flying blackface serving curry, but it tried to be realistic at times, then complete asspulls happened without any rational explanation whatsoever, and those weren't even fun or funny. That's bad writing. I can deal with a few minutes of braindead exposition and random shit happening as long as it's awesome.
And again, that doesn't mean I consider the writing in Horizon better. All I say is that I can deal with a stupid script as long as the end product entertains me. Maybe some people like the unfunny randomness in Haruhi. Maybe some people like something else about the show. And a lot of people like the show, so there's obviously something to like. Whatever it is, I either didn't notice it or it didn't entice me.
So you really had no argument to begin with and sidetracked yourself.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=31534057&postcount=4611wsippel said:I didn't start the argument about writing quality. I don't even care, in case you didn't notice (especially not about dialogue, as that's a) only part of the writing and b) very dependent on the translator). It was all about this one sentence: "You can be self-aware and well made, like Haruhi." - and I personally consider that show neither all that self-aware nor well made (in the story department). Details about the writing outside the context of self-awareness are therefore almost entirely irrelevant.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=31534325&postcount=4613wsippel said:It isn't, because I don't compare the writing. I called the writing in Haruhi bad. I can judge that part, because I actually watched that show and did read the subtitles. And it is bad. That has nothing to do with Horizon's writing. And it's also not important if Horizons writing is any better or worse, either. I never argued either way, and it's not relevant to the point I made: Haruhi is not better in the "self-awareness department". You don't need a single sentence to realize that Horizon is highly self-aware. They get that point across within a few minutes, without any character speaking even a single sentence.
So what were you even trying to argue?
Yes, you were. Your failure to not address that until now, and then, claim this was your initial argument all along is sidetracking whatever began this argument in the first place.wsippel said:I'm not sidetracking, my initial post was a response to this: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=31525000&postcount=4521
As you can see, it was always about comparing self-awareness and overall presentation, not writing in particular. I guess I should have made that clearer in subsequent posts.
Then you have low standards because it isn't that bad and isn't as insensible as you make it to be. Especially never as offensive as Horizon.I simply consider the writing in Haruhi so bad that it can't get much worse. Maybe Horizon will manage to achieve that feat in the end (it's a bit early to tell after just one episode - and I doubt it, as I've written in the post you quoted), but Haruhi already set the bar quite high - or low, depending on how you look at it.
And you're doing exactly what you claim "pretentious" viewers of doing with Haruhi, Madoka, and Evangelion. Bad = something you dislike instead of good = something they like, which doesn't describe the quality of the show at all.I don't really get your point. I'm fine with bad writing as long as the show is still overall entertaining. And I didn't consider Haruhi entertaining - it didn't have a good plot and there was nothing there to offset that shortcoming. To me, at least. I don't see what's wrong with that?
No, it wasn't. Don't start this revisionist crap. It's only about it now because you're sidetracking the discussion yet again.So again: It doesn't matter if Horizon's writing is better, as the initial point of the whole discussion wasn't writing, but self-awareness. Horizon is more obviously self-aware, right? And there's also no arguing it's well made I guess.
Well most stuff hasn't aired or is only just airing so its a bit early. Squid Girl season 2, Phi Brain, and Chihayafuru seem to be the most well received so far.Calcaneus said:So what shows don't suck this season?
Dedication Through Light
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Calcaneus said:So what shows don't suck this season?
Phi Brain and Detective Trap based on its PV.
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