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2011 NBA Mar |OT| Now listening to the Stan Van Gundy mixtape

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Kogepan

Member
The Frankman said:
That's what the offseason is for. They still have Jerome Jordan's rights and I expect him to be in camp. Maybe sign Barron and see a few guys get cut... the foundation is there, now build around it. I don't get this "3rd star" business people keep spouting. Unless that guy is Dwight, Knicks just need to sign good role players. It would be HILARIOUS if Knicks re-signed Wilson Chandler in the offseason (they won't, of course).

But the offense at least ran okay. Plus in Milwaukee the 2nd quarter I hear the Knicks blitzed them.

i think i asked this question before...but wasn't the consensus that the Knicks really have very little wiggle room this summer? If they don't dump Billups they are near the cap and really just have their own first round draft pick this year? They also have to re-sign fields after next year since he's a 2nd round draft pick. The only way they can get decent cap space is to renounce Billips/Fields, which would make things even worse.
 
Kogepan said:
i think i asked this question before...but wasn't the consensus that the Knicks really have very little wiggle room this summer? If they don't dump Billups they are near the cap and really just have their own first round draft pick this year? They also have to re-sign fields after next year since he's a 2nd round draft pick. The only way they can get decent cap space is to renounce Billips/Fields, which would make things even worse.


Yeah, the Knicks have no cap room next offseason and only have a little in Summer 2012.
 
Kogepan said:
i think i asked this question before...but wasn't the consensus that the Knicks really have very little wiggle room this summer? If they don't dump Billups they are near the cap and really just have their own first round draft pick this year? They also have to re-sign fields after next year since he's a 2nd round draft pick. The only way they can get decent cap space is to renounce Billips/Fields, which would make things even worse.
They can't sign a 3rd major star, but they don't have to he the fricking Heat here. They have a 7-footer playing in Serbia they own, plus how much does a role player cost? They won't have a ton of space, but they're far from being "capped out" plus I believe they have one of the player exemptions left (don't think they used one this year). What, you think Fields will ask for 5/60 or something?
 
The Frankman said:
They can't sign a 3rd major star, but they don't have to he the fricking Heat here. They have a 7-footer playing in Serbia they own, plus how much does a role player cost? They're far from being capped out. What you think Fields will ask for 5/60 or something?


Most players on Fields' level get 5/34, Jerome Jordan sucks.
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Most players on Fields' level get 5/34, Jerome Jordan sucks.
I will say this, I doubt he asks for that much + new CBA. All Jerome Jordan has to be is as good as Mozgov was this... WTF when have you seen him play? Dude is in Serbia and coming out of college was a shotblocker/defensive guy. As long as he does that I'm fine.
 
The Frankman said:
I will say this, I doubt he asks for that much + new CBA. All Jerome Jordan has to be is as good as Mozgov was this... WTF when have you seen him play? Dude is in Serbia and coming out of college was a shotblocker/defensive guy. As long as he does that I'm fine.


wtf are you talking about? Jereme Jordan was a good offensive player in college who didn't defend at all.


http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jerome-Jordan-5160/
 
The Crimson Blur said:
I think the Spurs are at a crossroads right now, and the next few weeks could decide the fate of their season. The Lakers game gave Pop a scare so he switched Dice to the starting role. I think that is a bad decision for a number of reasons. First off, that makes Bonner and Blair come off the bench initially, which is just murder for us offensively and defensively. Neither of those guys have chemistry with the other; in fact, in the 2 years they have been with one another, I can't remember a single play they converted together. They aren't used to being on the floor together and their playstyles don't mesh. Its a bad match.

Blair-Duncan on the other hand is a rebounding force. Blair defends the quick players, and deflects all the balls down low while Timmy swats them up high. Its a defensive tandem that works great. Now, Duncan-Dice is even better, but something is lost on the offensive end. Besides, we have to play Blair anyhow, so isn't it better to put him in the role he is most comfortable in? Its not like playing him his normal minutes but off the bench is going to help anything.

Then there is the Tiago/Novak conundrum...those two have been playing better and better every time we see them. Its a bit late to incorporate them imo, but I'm sure Pop's considering it.

Its an issue you wouldn't expect us to have at this point, especially with our record, but we have seen this happen before. Pop has made key last minute decisions in our championship years (think Nazr). I'm curious to see what he ends up deciding.


I think a lot of this depends on how Splitter plays while Tim is out. If he earns Pop's trust, I wouldn't mind seeing Tim and Tiago start together the last week of the season. That lets Dice come off the bench as the first big and Pop can put in Blair/Bonner/Novak as the situation calls for.

That said, I'm not expecting big numbers from Tiago. What I want to see is Oberto 2.0 Tiago doesn't have the handles/hands that Oberto did but what he does better than Oberto is slide his feet on defense, set better pick and rolls, and roll to the basket very well which puts pressure on the defense. We don't need much offense from Tiago with TP, Manu, TD, and RJ playing around him in this hypothetical starting line up.

And don't forget Bonner likes to disappear around play off time. Robert Horry he is not.
 
uaZNN.jpg

Because he's the hero Gotham deserves, but not the one it needs right now.
 

Rodeo Clown

All aboard! The Love train!
ESPN said:
The NBA says more than half its teams are losing money -- more than $300 million a year, it has said -- as it demands sweeping changes to the CBA.

Hunter disputed that. "Our belief," Hunter said, "is that a small number of teams are suffering, and their problems can be addressed through revenue sharing."

Hunter also said that the key negotiating point for the players is the NBA's push for a hard salary cup, rather than a "franchise tag" or some other limit on the movement of top players.

Hunter says a hard cap would effectively end guaranteed contracts which he calls "the lifeblood" of professional basketball. "We've had that right for years, and it's not something we're trying to give up."
I don't see why a hard cap would end guaranteed contracts.

But this is going to be a long lockout. Hope you guys like hockey or soccer or something.
 
Rodeo Clown said:
That's really not bad. Gomes is a solid role player. I wish the Gomes and Babbitt for Webster deal could be undone. I miss his steady mediocrity.

I can't believe David Kahn has made me long for the Ryan Gomes era.
Cmon man. We both know that if he was here he would be playing at 1/10th his potential.
 
The Frankman said:
They can't sign a 3rd major star, but they don't have to he the fricking Heat here. They have a 7-footer playing in Serbia they own, plus how much does a role player cost? They won't have a ton of space, but they're far from being "capped out" plus I believe they have one of the player exemptions left (don't think they used one this year). What, you think Fields will ask for 5/60 or something?


Hey I hear Slava Medvedenko is available.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_PJ5xFQeXg

N/M he says "I must concentrate on my defense" he wouldn't be a good fit for NY.
 

giri

Member
Rodeo Clown said:
I don't see why a hard cap would end guaranteed contracts.

But this is going to be a long lockout. Hope you guys like hockey or soccer or something.
He means bloated contracts given out to role players having a good year that revert back to scrub levels shortly after. He's worried all those big contracts given to undeserving guys like Varejao, won't be around in a hard cap era.

He's probably right.

There will still be guranteed contracts though.
 
I'm not buying that half the teams are losing money. A few teams no doubt, but not half. Just look at how much recent teams have been sold for and the big contracts given out. There's a big disconnect between what Stern is saying and the truth
 
obijkenobi said:
I think a lot of this depends on how Splitter plays while Tim is out. If he earns Pop's trust, I wouldn't mind seeing Tim and Tiago start together the last week of the season. That lets Dice come off the bench as the first big and Pop can put in Blair/Bonner/Novak as the situation calls for.

That said, I'm not expecting big numbers from Tiago. What I want to see is Oberto 2.0 Tiago doesn't have the handles/hands that Oberto did but what he does better than Oberto is slide his feet on defense, set better pick and rolls, and roll to the basket very well which puts pressure on the defense. We don't need much offense from Tiago with TP, Manu, TD, and RJ playing around him in this hypothetical starting line up.

In the starting lineup for the playoffs? Christ no. Lets not forget how good Blair, Dice, and Bonner are. Tiago is barely making the rotation for a reason. If you are hoping to get size and shotblocking, then Tiago is not the answer. He is very soft. He has gotten only 13 blocks in 570 minutes of playing time. Thats really bad. Blair and Dice easily beat that. Hes becoming much better with it for sure...before he was worried about picking up a foul. Hes acclimated to NBA officiating, but hes still not the guy who will give you tough interior defense. So if he doesn't help on defense, and he hurts us on offense (compared to our other bigs), then whats his purpose?

I think we will answer that in the coming weeks. If he can do what he did tonight against a relevant team, then I'll start believing. But no matter how much shit Blair gets for the last Lakers game, he dominated them in the first 2 meetings. And Dice has proven he can hang with anyone; his defense against Dirk last year should be proof enough. I don't want to gamble a season away on a unproven rookie...and thats what Tiago is.

obijkenobi said:
And don't forget Bonner likes to disappear around play off time. Robert Horry he is not.

Ah I don't buy that. Bonner has made some huge shots this season. His play is directly proportional to how well our playmakers set him up. If hes open, its in.

Opposing teams are scared shitless of Bonner. Hes a great weapon. And the team really feeds off him. Timmy's famous "game over" moment happened when Bonner started lighting it up. The team thinks they are impervious when hes hot (because they are).
 

giri

Member
Black Mamba said:
I'm not buying that half the teams are losing money. A few teams no doubt, but not half. Just look at how much recent teams have been sold for and the big contracts given out. There's a big disconnect between what Stern is saying and the truth
Several owners have been heard saying that they gave out the contracts they did last summer under the anticipation that they'll be able to write chunks of them off/down.

I wouldn't be surprised if 10 out of the 30 teams are losing money. I know that the NBA had to take out loans for 7 teams last season.
 

Kogepan

Member
The Frankman said:
That's what I have been looking at, plus the updates I've read is that he's worked on D and is looking good. I hadn't heard much on O.

Toney Douglas/Jerome Jordan future? Now i'm really depressed.

I hated the Nuggest but I'm kind cheering for them now since gallo/will/felton are there but its not the same....
 
giri said:
Several owners have been heard saying that they gave out the contracts they did last summer under the anticipation that they'll be able to write chunks of them off/down.

I wouldn't be surprised if 10 out of the 30 teams are losing money. I know that the NBA had to take out loans for 7 teams last season.

yeah, i heard that too. But that's not how they really run a business. Just a bunch of posturing.

Also don't buy that all the teams that took loans were necessarily losing money.



If an owner was truly losing money, why wouldn't they sell? The value of the franchise is clearly more than its earning potential (based on recent sales) and it would make more sense to sell or at least test the market. But, for the most part, they're not.

Sure, New Orleans is losing money (but it can't be that much if Stern was willing to take on salary). And Dallas I believe because Cuban doesn't care if it's the case. But look at the Hawks. Their attendance blows and they still overpaid Joe Johnson knowing that no matter what they're going to be committed to him even if that contract is rolled back a little bit.

It's bogus. The Lakers just signed a $3 billion 10 year deal with Time-Warner. Now I know, they're the Lakers, but that is quite an insane deal. $300 million per year for a team that right now is spending $100 million on players (I assure you the operating costs don't cost $200 million).

The NBA has things it needs fixed. Revenue sharing would probably help and I do agree contracts should be shorter and probably at less value, but the NBA is healthy and I really doubt more than a handful of teams aren't making money or projected to make money really soon.

Reilo said:

If it's the Tony Parker timetable, he'll be playing next game!
 
The Crimson Blur said:


Well thats why I said the next few weeks will give Splitter a chance to get into the playoff rotation. If he can play as well as he did tonight on the road trip, then Pop should at least consider it. Tiago is not a shot blocker, but he has good side to side mobility and keeps his hands up. Against a team like the Lakers, his size would come in very handy. That way Pau and Bynum wouldn't be able to just shoot over a starting Blair. Again, this is assuming he actually improves and doens't regress. Remember the dude has basically been injured all year and all I really want is Oberto 2.0 out of him. Oberto wasn't a shot blocker either but he kept loose balls alive and helped keep some fluidity in the offense.

I still don't trust Bonner to come through in the playoffs. But I think Neal will. That dude has a set on him.
 
Gordon Hayward shooting 47% from three on the season even counting those first two terrible months of the season, oh yeah. Really needs to polish up his handle though. Has a lot of moves, but it's pretty loose so he turns the ball over a lot. Could be a really good player if he tightens that up.
 
Black Mamba said:
yeah, i heard that too. But that's not how they really run a business. Just a bunch of posturing.

Also don't buy that all the teams that took loans were necessarily losing money.



If an owner was truly losing money, why wouldn't they sell? The value of the franchise is clearly more than its earning potential (based on recent sales) and it would make more sense to sell or at least test the market. But, for the most part, they're not.

Sure, New Orleans is losing money (but it can't be that much if Stern was willing to take on salary). And Dallas I believe because Cuban doesn't care if it's the case. But look at the Hawks. Their attendance blows and they still overpaid Joe Johnson knowing that no matter what they're going to be committed to him even if that contract is rolled back a little bit.

It's bogus. The Lakers just signed a $3 billion 10 year deal with Time-Warner. Now I know, they're the Lakers, but that is quite an insane deal. $300 million per year for a team that right now is spending $100 million on players (I assure you the operating costs don't cost $200 million).

The NBA has things it needs fixed. Revenue sharing would probably help and I do agree contracts should be shorter and probably at less value, but the NBA is healthy and I really doubt more than a handful of teams aren't making money or projected to make money really soon.


I agree with you in that I think part of the problem is a lack of revenue sharing. The NBA, more than any other of the major NA sports, is driven by star players. It's just the nature of the game. Peyton and Brady may be the best QBs in the NFL, but they only play one side of the ball with 10 other guys. Prime Duncan, Kobe, Hakeem, Jordan, etc, literally crushed their opponents on the offensive and defensive side of the ball for 2/3 to 3/4 of the game. You can't replace that type of production. But the NBA is run by shitty owners and shitty GM's that completely fuck over their ability to attract the few star players that exist in the league by giving shit contracts to people who don't deserve them. You have a few of those contracts for one franchise and then you're looking at 5 years before you can even think to be competitive. And what fan is going to blow 100 bucks per game to support that shit for five years or more (besides Knicks age). Then these shit franchises sell off franchise players (Memphis Gasol trade to LA for Kwame fucking Brown!?!) to teams that have money to spend and it just keeps going.

I have almost no sympathy for a lot of these shitty GMs when small market teams like the Spurs and Thunder have been able to build a team through the draft and very focused trades (RJ and Perkins respectively). Sure they lucked into drafting Duncan and Durant, but the Spurs were able to get Parker late in the first round and Manu with the 58th fucking draft pick. Not to mention George Hill late in the first round and Gary Neal from Europe. NBA management needs to fucking learn how to build franchises before they go around blaming their players for their fucking problems.
 

Zep

Banned
How are the Lakers locking up these billion dollar deals with Kobe at the end of his career? Jerry Buss must laugh himself to sleep.
 
Zep said:
How are the Lakers locking up these billion dollar deals with Kobe at the end of his career? Jerry Buss must laugh himself to sleep.


Sustained excellence. Once Kobe is gone another star will come to LA. That's just the way it goes.
 
Ninja Scooter said:
Sustained excellence. Once Kobe is gone another star will come to LA. That's just the way it goes.


The Lakers had zero major free agent signings in the 2000s. Not that I disagree too much, but it's not like the franchise has lived up to the star grabbing rep (They didn't have cap space either, but still, these championships weren't built off of free agent signings pretty much at all)
 

CB3

intangibles, motherfucker
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
The Lakers had zero major free agent signings in the 2000s.

We dont need to sign free agnets. We swindle teams like the Grizzlies to get our stars
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
The Lakers had zero major free agent signings in the 2000s.


They traded for Kareem and Wilt. It's not always about signing players as free agents (hell the draft picks used to get Magic and Worthy were also via trade, and Kobe was added the same way)

But Buss always finds a way to bring stars to LA and put an exciting product on the floor. TWC knows this.
 

Zep

Banned
Ninja Scooter said:
They traded for Kareem and Wilt. It's not always about signing players as free agents (hell the draft picks used to get Magic and Worthy were also via trade, and Kobe was added the same way)

But Buss always finds a way to bring stars to LA and put an exciting product on the floor. TWC knows this.

Orlando is already writing that script for L.A. But to think you'll get another Magic, Worthy, Kobe on top of that is getting ahead of yourself. It's not like Jerry West is running the show anymore.
 
Zep said:
Orlando is already writing that script for L.A. But to think you'll get another Magic, Worthy, Kobe on top of that is getting ahead of yourself.


Not saying that. But look at the numbers. The Lakers have missed the playoffs only 5 times in the last 50 years. They have been involved in about half of every NBA Finals series ever played. HALF. They find a way to put together great teams, whether it's stacked like the 80s teams, or two stars like Shaq and Kobe, or the current team Kobe and Pau. And they always are one of the top draws around the league. This is what Time Warner is banking on, even with Kobe in the twilight of his career.
 
The Dwight thing is Laker Fan pipe. Unless I'm mistaken, we will still have Kobe, Pau, Lamar, Blake and probably Bynum (if he's given an extension) on the books by the time Dwight is in his final year. It's just not likely. Even if Dwight tries to pull a Melo and force a trade to the one team he wants, what are we gonna give up? Is a rebuilding team like a Dwight-less Orlando gonna want to take back Pau or Bynum? Doubtful. The real players that will probably be targets once the Kobe/Pau era is over are guys like Love and Blake.
 
obijkenobi said:
Well thats why I said the next few weeks will give Splitter a chance to get into the playoff rotation. If he can play as well as he did tonight on the road trip, then Pop should at least consider it.

Playoff rotation, sure. Starting? Hell no.

obijkenobi said:
Tiago is not a shot blocker, but he has good side to side mobility and keeps his hands up.

Yeah but Dice can do that and actually block shots. Plus he isn't an offensive liability.

obijkenobi said:
Against a team like the Lakers, his size would come in very handy. That way Pau and Bynum wouldn't be able to just shoot over a starting Blair. Again, this is assuming he actually improves and doens't regress.

Yeah, thats the fear with Blair. We just have to hope he plays more like he did in the first 2 games against LA than the last one. I still think hes a vital piece in that matchup and we shouldnt shy away from using him.

obijkenobi said:
Remember the dude has basically been injured all year and all I really want is Oberto 2.0 out of him. Oberto wasn't a shot blocker either but he kept loose balls alive and helped keep some fluidity in the offense.

But we have bigs better than Oberto on our team. Bonner, Blair, and Dice are much better than that. Tiago will have to do more than channel his inner Oberto to earn a rotation spot.

obijkenobi said:
I still don't trust Bonner to come through in the playoffs. But I think Neal will. That dude has a set on him.

Its a lot easier to be Gary Neal now than in May and June.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed. You never know with these things. After all, Ron Artest and Trevor Ariza just won the Lakers rings. Who could have predicted that?
 

Zep

Banned
Ninja Scooter said:
Not saying that. But look at the numbers. The Lakers have missed the playoffs only 5 times in the last 50 years. They have been involved in about half of every NBA Finals series ever played. HALF. They find a way to put together great teams, whether it's stacked like the 80s teams, or two stars like Shaq and Kobe, or the current team Kobe and Pau. And they always are one of the top draws around the league. This is what Time Warner is banking on, even with Kobe in the twilight of his career.

I'm just looking at the talent being spread really fucking thin at the moment. But then I could be wrong with Williams eventually becoming a FA along with Paul. Then you throw in a Dwight Howard who knows he'll never win a title with Orlando, possibly leaving. So yea, maybe TWC knows what they're doing. Jackson won't be around coaching but that would be the least of the problems if players go there.

edit; I figured Bynum and a few others would be off the books by the time Howard became a FA.
 
The Crimson Blur said:
I'm keeping my fingers crossed. You never know with these things. After all, Ron Artest and Trevor Ariza just won the Lakers rings. Who could have predicted that?

Not going to comment on the other points because I don't think we're that far away on agreeing. I will say this about Neal. The dude went through a rape allegation which shat on his life for years. I don't think he'll shy away from the play offs.

On top of that, the guy has limited ability to make plays for himself unlike Bonner who gets rattled if he loses his set up spot. In the last few playoffs, if Bonner starts slow he tends to hesitate with his shot. Neal has no such problems. Neal will sometimes shoot a bone headed 3 pointer early in the shot clock, but he has handles just good enough combined with a floater in the lane that is also just good enough to keep defenses from just sprinting out as fast as possible. That hasn't been the case with Bonner in the post season.
 
Zep said:
I'm just looking at the talent being spread really fucking thin at the moment. But then I could be wrong with Williams eventually becoming a FA along with Paul. Then you throw in a Dwight Howard who knows he'll never win a title with Orlando, possibly leaving. So yea, maybe TWC knows what they're doing. Jackson won't be around coaching but that would be the least of the problems if players go there.

edit; I figured Bynum and a few others would be off the books by the time Howard became a FA.


Kobe, Pau and Blake have 3 more years after this one. Ron too, but I thought he had an opt out or something, if not than you have to put him there. Lamar has 2 more. Bynum's situation is interesting. He has a team option after this season for like $15 million, which will probably be picked up, but then you have to start negotiating an extension for multiple years after that. If the Front Office really is looking at 3 years from now (the end of Kobe and Pau's deals) as the time to rebuild, his contract could become an albatross.
 

jobber

Would let Tony Parker sleep with his wife
reilo said:


WE.ARE.FUCKED.

If I remember right, Duncan got hurt vs. the Warriors in Oakland and came back after halftime. The Warriors are THUGS and parasitic troglodytes to the league.

If we lose HCA through the Finals, this whole season would be a bust. Ain't no more Bobcats coming to town..got games vs Nuggs Blazers and Grizz (might be the 1st round match up) coming up + the Cz coming to town on the 31st. FML
 

giri

Member
Black Mamba said:
yeah, i heard that too. But that's not how they really run a business. Just a bunch of posturing.

Also don't buy that all the teams that took loans were necessarily losing money.



If an owner was truly losing money, why wouldn't they sell? The value of the franchise is clearly more than its earning potential (based on recent sales) and it would make more sense to sell or at least test the market. But, for the most part, they're not.

Sure, New Orleans is losing money (but it can't be that much if Stern was willing to take on salary). And Dallas I believe because Cuban doesn't care if it's the case. But look at the Hawks. Their attendance blows and they still overpaid Joe Johnson knowing that no matter what they're going to be committed to him even if that contract is rolled back a little bit.

It's bogus. The Lakers just signed a $3 billion 10 year deal with Time-Warner. Now I know, they're the Lakers, but that is quite an insane deal. $300 million per year for a team that right now is spending $100 million on players (I assure you the operating costs don't cost $200 million).

The NBA has things it needs fixed. Revenue sharing would probably help and I do agree contracts should be shorter and probably at less value, but the NBA is healthy and I really doubt more than a handful of teams aren't making money or projected to make money really soon.



If it's the Tony Parker timetable, he'll be playing next game!

You forget, Detroit is up for sale, Charloette just got sold, Wariors just got sold, New Orleans can't find a buyer (in NO). There's plenty of these guys who have gotten out of it purely because it's a loss. Kings are moving and rebranding. That's 5 teams. And OKC Just moved/got sold 2 or 3 years ago.

Then you have guys like sterling that turns players over because he won't pay them, because that would drive the clippers into a loss making situation.

So a lot of owners ARE getting out of the whole thing.

The lakers are the exception to the rule, and the knicks (god knows how) seem to be also, charging the highest ticket prices in the league. The run on the large market theory, and reap the rewards of it. There's only one team in the league with a $3b tv rights deal, not 30.
 

SephCast

Brotherhood of Shipley's
jobber said:
WE.ARE.FUCKED.

If I remember right, Duncan got hurt vs. the Warriors in Oakland and came back after halftime. The Warriors are THUGS and parasitic troglodytes to the league.

If we lose HCA through the Finals, this whole season would be a bust. Ain't no more Bobcats coming to town..got games vs Nuggs Blazers and Grizz (might be the 1st round match up) coming up + the Cz coming to town on the 31st. FML

This is like a realgm overreaction. Calm down, your team is still really good and will trek through the next two weeks. I highly doubt you'll lose HCA.
 
teruterubozu said:
Yes! Time for Lakers to work on HCA. Sorry, shitty sentiment but we'll take it.


Spurs will be able to keep their HCA. Losing a role player like Duncan is like the Lakers losing Fisher.

giri said:
The lakers are the exception to the rule, and the knicks (god knows how) seem to be also, charging the highest ticket prices in the league. The run on the large market theory, and reap the rewards of it. There's only one team in the league with a $3b tv rights deal, not 30.

a naive, gullible fanbase?
 
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