But Rondo averaged more assists on the road last year...
hahahaha love it.
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2012-13 Oct/Nov NBA Season |OT| Mavericks Attempt To Defend Title
- Thread starter reilo
- Start date
hahahaha love it.
Black Mamba
Member
Yes, because Conley's supporting cast is better offensively. As I just said. So when he and those better players are on the bench, the dropoff will be more severe.
Tell me, would the Lakers dropoff to the bench be the same if instead of Dwight on the team they had Ryan Hollins starting?
True PG, probably.
Best player who play the PG spot? Rondo is top 5 probably, but only just.
Best flopping PG? He's way behind Chris in that department.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Yes, because the Celtics going from Pierce and KG to Pietrus and Steimsma is such a small dropoff.
103 is a terrible number for a starting offense with several all-stars regardless of how bad the Celtics' bench unit was.
It's hilarious because you're the only one.
Black Mamba
Member
If you're starting point offense isn't elite, you're going to drop less. There's a floor.
Boston's offensive problem was offensive rebounding. It was the worst in NBA history.
Boston was 10th in the league in efg% which is remarkable considering they had no offensive rebound putbacks.
With Rondo on the court it was 50.2% That's a lot better than Conley's 48.6% on court. Of course, his team had a lot more FTs and putbacks thanks to offensive rebounds.
Boston's offense was stuck at 103 simply because it was the worst offensive rebounding team of all time, something we cannot lay blame on Rondo for. The team actually shot exceptionally well with Rondo on the court.
You're flat out wrong on this argument.
Yea you are.
RamzaIsCool
The Amiga Brotherhood
Soooo since when is Omer Asik able to perform moves like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hJVtbt5anY
Did they hire Olajuwon to train him or something?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hJVtbt5anY
Did they hire Olajuwon to train him or something?
This is what is ridiculous about all of these arguments in that there are so many factors people aren't recognizing. The rebounding situation, the type of defense played, the percentages of the shooters so on so forth.
Whoa, no one said he's shit (I've said he's fundamentally broken before, and I stand by that). I just laugh at the idea of him being the best point guard in the league. He'll never be that.
And he steps it up in the playoffs? Entirely untrue as well - the exact opposite actually. His flaws are painfully obvious during the playoffs. Especially in the final two minutes of games where his dribblearoundthetopofthekeyfor8seconds dance starts choking out his own team and he becomes increasingly worthless on the court.
I haven't watched Kemba enough this year to really judge, but I can assume just about everything? Shot higher percentages from the floor, rebounded significantly better, much higher assist percentage, and I can't confirm this, but I'm going to assume he's also defended better. He's also scored with just about the same efficiency, and that's not even his primary role. Kemba takes signicantly more shots, only has 3 points more than FGA a game.
Except its true by pretty much every tangible measure. You really are a card. Its crazy to see a person try and twist the reality so far to match his narrative.
4 on 5 ball is winning ball after all.
Once Boston gets stuck in close game half court battles, they have to fight uphill every single time. Its been this way for the past 3-4 years. They win on defense. Always have. They'll stay that way until KG retires or breaks - once that defense goes, the team goes with it.
The only valid arguments against Rondo is that since he has jump shooting bigs on his team he gets a couple more assist than he would if he had post up bigs, and that he coasts through regular season games at times..
The argument about supporting cast is dead, he has been clearly the best player on the Celtics for the last 2 years, and he has carried them through several playoff series that they should not have won. Pierce looks ancient now, and his brand of isoball doesn't really do anything for Rondo anyway, and while KG is still getting it done defensively, most of his offense(I mean 90% of it) comes from assists from Rondo.
Also while Rondo has never been a great shooter, he's never been an inefficient scorer for the PG position. Chris Paul's career eFG% is only .017 higher than Rondo's, which is an almost insignificant difference. The significant difference is TS% cause Rondo can't shoot free throws, but even that is not a huge difference.
Worth noting that Jason Kidd's career eFG% and TS% are both lower than Rondo's, and no one ever had a problem calling him one of the best PGs in the game. also that Rondo has put up AST% that Kidd never came close to.
The argument about supporting cast is dead, he has been clearly the best player on the Celtics for the last 2 years, and he has carried them through several playoff series that they should not have won. Pierce looks ancient now, and his brand of isoball doesn't really do anything for Rondo anyway, and while KG is still getting it done defensively, most of his offense(I mean 90% of it) comes from assists from Rondo.
Also while Rondo has never been a great shooter, he's never been an inefficient scorer for the PG position. Chris Paul's career eFG% is only .017 higher than Rondo's, which is an almost insignificant difference. The significant difference is TS% cause Rondo can't shoot free throws, but even that is not a huge difference.
Worth noting that Jason Kidd's career eFG% and TS% are both lower than Rondo's, and no one ever had a problem calling him one of the best PGs in the game. also that Rondo has put up AST% that Kidd never came close to.
This is why no one here takes you seriously.
Or someone like me trolls you until you get your SN and tag changed.
Lulz. Every measurable practically goes up. Averaged basically a 17/10/10 in the playoffs the year KG went down.
Black Mamba
Member
Dy is right for the most part. I still believe Lakers won in 2010 because of Rondo. But it should be noted that only a handful of teams can exploit Rondo's weaknesses, but when it does it kills their offense.
I just don't think IWMTB should make the argument that he's making - namely that if rondo was good Boston's offense should be better. Boston's offensive woes last season are almost entirely related to their bench and their offensive rebounding.
Rondo isn't a top 5 PG. But he fits Boston really well.
I just don't think IWMTB should make the argument that he's making - namely that if rondo was good Boston's offense should be better. Boston's offensive woes last season are almost entirely related to their bench and their offensive rebounding.
Rondo isn't a top 5 PG. But he fits Boston really well.
LA won because boston got consistently outrebounded by double digits for most of the series.
In game 7 Boston crushed LA in eFG%, but they gave up 41.8% ORB%. That was not Rondo's fault.
Also if you go by ORtg, Boston's offense is not terrible this year, it's only 11th, despite being dead last in ORB%. If you account for the fact that a good portion of the offense is Paul Pierce iso plays that Rondo has nothing to do with and none of the other starters can create their own shot, I'd say Rondo is doing a pretty damn good job.
What you believe is called a fallacy. It had more to do with Ray shitting the bed and Perk going down. The top 5 thing is just not even worth going into.
Red Blaster
Member
And then he got waxed by Rafer Alston
pathetic
also where's diehard
it's not a Rondo throwdown without him
I don't buy the Perk thing cuz Bynum was injured too. I is a fact that Ray broke the 3 point record then went 0-13 the next game and 3-14 in game 7 on plenty of good looks.
This.The fact that the Celtics basically had LA put away with Perk out invalidates everything he said.
And its beside the point, 2010 is almost three years ago.
Dominican Power
Member
Name 5 better PGs than Rondo. Go!
Yeah his 10/4 on 33% shooting was spectacular that series.
Black Mamba
Member
Ray shit the bed because Kobe didn't guard Rondo and hedged over for Fisher on Ray all the time.
Also, PGs I'd take over Rondo
Cp3
Nash
Deron
Kyrie
Westbrook
Parker
Rose
No way you can remove 3 of those for Rondo.
"had LA put away?" What? Lakers were winning game 6 and Perk went down. he wouldn't have changed game 7, either. Sheed had his best game of the season, pretty much. Perk would have been worse.
Well it definitely played some part. I mean think of the impact that has mentally, not mentioning on court. That series was as close as it can get, ugly all around and blaming a single player reeks of illogicality.
Black Mamba
Member
If Rondo was any kind of scoring threat, they win.
I don't blame Rondo so much as I play Rondo's skills being a horrible match for the Lakers defense that year. Lakers had the type of team that could stymie him. And they did.
Again, Ray was shitty because Kobe ignored Rondo and helped on hedges for both Ron on Pierce and Fisher on Pierce.
The only game Ray got going was game 2 which Kobe was inexplicably in foul trouble and played very reduced minutes.
I honestly think he's good. But I definitely don't think he's better than a LOT of the up & coming point guards in the league either. From the series with LA to last year's vs Miami - he's either incapable of tackling conventional, well-constructed teams altogether or he's not able to make the most of what should be matchups in his favor.
Lawson, Kyrie, Rubio, Conley, Lowry are about to lap him. Teague, Kemba, Lillard and whoever else are about to catch to him/and or pass him.
Its kinda funny how Rondo was rumored to be on the way to OKC at one point when he's some kind of Bizzaro-Westbrook.
Syphon Filter
Member
Yep. 20/11/7 on nearly 50% shooting against Miami. Atrocious. He's the sole reason they were in that series.
Dmncnby2k9
Banned
holy crap. Marvin Williams and Gordon Hayward have been benched. Randy Foye and Derrick Favors will start.
Black Mamba
Member
I think Lawson and Conley will be in Rondo group. Not sure who is better but the fit matters. I think if you switch Conley and Rondo, both teams get worse.
I do think Rubio and Lillard will be better. haven't seen enough of Teague, though I always thought Kemba would bust (great start this year, though).
I'd take Kyrie right now. Lowry might already be better. Not sure.
edit: I don't actually think Miami defends Rondo well.
So good. I love having all these salty old vets on this team.
Red Blaster
Member
Rondo is Jrue Holiday tier
also Dragic > Rondo
also Dragic > Rondo
Do I really need to be the one to remind everyone of Rondo's impact on the series outside of game 2? Every 4th quarter/OT possession was a kick to the balls. That series should've been put away long before Bosh came back. If he had played anything near the level of a consistent all-star point guard threat, we wouldn't be watching 5 minute long LBJ commercials during every timeout. Pierce had LBJ on him, KG had his hands full carrying the entire defensive load as usual, and all Rondo had to do was make Chalmers and Cole guard him - but that was just asking too much apparently. Its impossible to be the best point guard in the league when defenders routinely double team off of the person dribbling the ball.
Dominican Power
Member
So Milsap is going to play SF.
Black Mamba
Member
Largely because Sheed was having his best game of the season and wouldn't have if he was on the bench.
besides, Boston that season was notorious for flailing in the 2nd half and giving up sizable leads with Perkins.
If you replace Sheed's performance with what we'd expect of our Perkin's, I bet they never even get an 8 point lead at any point. Perk's offense with Rondo out there was really bad for the team.
edit: Parker and Rose after Rondo? Are you high?
Dmncnby2k9
Banned
Yes sir. Trying out our big lineup which has been effective wenever used.
Rose is barely a point guard and doesn't even look like he's in full control of the bulls very basic sets. Call me crazy, but I don't really value PGs whose one trick is to score inefficiently.
And yeah Rondo has outplayed Parker most every recent time they've met.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=parketo01&p2=rondora01
Black Mamba
Member
Rose plays PG. He's better than Rondo. I don't give a fuck how you want to define the position, every single sane person rather have Rose over Rondo on their team at PG.
Who cares about a few h2h games? Just because Rondo routinely shit on Cleveland doesn't make him better than those two.
Just stop, please.
Rose was the reason the Bulls were so good his MVP year. He covers up a lot of his teams offensive ineptitude, especially in the final two minutes. While Rondo does not elevate his team mates level of play ESPECIALLY in the final two minutes.
The name of this game is still to score points. I'd value someone who can score 10+ in the fourth consistently over someone who pads his assist totals by having some of the best off-ball players in the NBA.
Rondo and Nash are the only guys in today's NBA that can get 17 assists or 20 assists in a game, and it would cause you not to blink an eye. And unlike Nash, he plays D.
He's the only guy that can do 18/15/16 type numbers in a playoff game and you won't blink an eye.
The PG Position is the most stacked position in the NBA, has been for some years now, so it's hard to say where Rondo exactly stacks up. But what's clear is that people look more at his lack of individual skills (shooting, FT shooting, post game) instead of his production.
Like Lebron, Rondo is able to produce at an incredibly efficient level while he has glaring holes in his game. Lebron has filled a lot of those holes up, but he was doing 30/7/7 way before he had a jump shot or a post game.
Rondo is clearly the most under-appreciated point guard in the league and his passing, rebounding, defense are all pretty incredible. He's like Kidd in that way
He's the only guy that can do 18/15/16 type numbers in a playoff game and you won't blink an eye.
The PG Position is the most stacked position in the NBA, has been for some years now, so it's hard to say where Rondo exactly stacks up. But what's clear is that people look more at his lack of individual skills (shooting, FT shooting, post game) instead of his production.
Like Lebron, Rondo is able to produce at an incredibly efficient level while he has glaring holes in his game. Lebron has filled a lot of those holes up, but he was doing 30/7/7 way before he had a jump shot or a post game.
Rondo is clearly the most under-appreciated point guard in the league and his passing, rebounding, defense are all pretty incredible. He's like Kidd in that way
Rose's really improving as floor general last year though, don't act like he Westbrook.
Btw I know you guys don't rate Rondo.. I do too, he have really fatal flaw on his game. but this is the only place that think such like Lowry and Conley better than him.. and that kinda stupid.
Btw I know you guys don't rate Rondo.. I do too, he have really fatal flaw on his game. but this is the only place that think such like Lowry and Conley better than him.. and that kinda stupid.