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2012 NBA Apr |OT| Presented By Unicef and Feed The Children, Fuk Yo Hunger Clown.

S

SephCast

Brotherhood of Shipley's
Back from the Bulls game. I wouldn't even call that game revenge. I'd just call it the norm. That's the Bulls team I'm used to watching.
 
T

TheGreatMightyPoo

Banned
DY_nasty said:
you wouldn't say anything against him - but you're surprised that others won't

for the same obvious reasons

its almost amazing in a way
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say anything bad about him because stats don't tell the whole story but better believe, you guys would use stats against Rose in pointguard arguments.

It's convenient selectivity.

Then again, you'd probably shrug off ASSISTS as determing POINTGUARD quality...at least this time.
 
T

The Frankman

Banned
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Wait, how was Sunday a must-win? That makes no sense unless being viewed completely through retrospect bias.
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If the Knicks lost at home to the Bulls, they had ZERO chance of winning on the road tonight. Now with the earlier win losing tonight isn't so bad. I can't imagine Knicks going into Milwaukee after losing 2 in a row.

Did you not read any posts Saturday or Sunday? I (and others of Knicks-GAF) said pretty much the same thing.
 
C

CoffeeJanitor

Member
TheGreatMightyPoo said:
I wouldn't say anything bad about him because stats don't tell the whole story but better believe, you guys would use stats against Rose in pointguard arguments.

It's convenient selectivity.

Then again, you'd probably shrug off ASSISTS as determing POINTGUARD quality...at least this time.
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Really, I think Rose is a great SG. No doubt.
 
C

Cloudy

Banned
Will the media really give LeBron a 3rd MVP if Miami finishes with a worse record than OKC in a weaker conference? I highly doubt it. Regardless of his stats
 
T

TheGreatMightyPoo

Banned
Cloudy said:
Will the media really give LeBron a 3rd MVP if Miami finishes with a worse record than OKC in a weaker conference? I highly doubt it. Regardless of his stats
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It's tough, it might be one of the closest MVP races ever.

I see it as a two-man race.

I had Kobe in it until late(plus, Lakers won't have a good enough record anyway to get him the award).

Not sure how the voting will go but I'd give it to Durant with a slight edge over LeBron.

I have this feeling LeBron will win it if the Heat finish well.
 
E

Emwitus

Member
538869_10150789749982223_127573752222_11421430_839126617_n.jpg


Found it on realgm, posted by a "Sofa King"

I like it.
 
P

Puddles

Banned
Cloudy said:
Will the media really give LeBron a 3rd MVP if Miami finishes with a worse record than OKC in a weaker conference? I highly doubt it. Regardless of his stats
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LeBron doesn't even come close to deserving it. He put up the emptiest 36, 7 and 7 in NBA history tonight. Anyone who watched that game saw just how small an impact he can have on games even when he puts up huge stat lines.

Durant does more with less, and if in any of his stat categories he seems to achieve less than LeBron, he still gets more out of them.
 
S

SoulPlaya

more money than God
giri said:
I don't think bad defense plus 10pts & 8rbs is "solid" for a guy getting $16M this year.

Thats pretty fucking shit actually.
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Hush. The man has the highest FG% of any PF in the league. He can't help it if they barely utilize him.
 
G

giri

Member
Ninja Scooter said:
Bron's the MVP. It's not even close.
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Not to say that OKC are un-talented, but they're not as talented as the Heat are. OKC getting as many wins as they do rely more on Durant than Miami do on LBJ.

I don't think its as clear cut as people would like to make it out to be.

But i can see a case for either player.

LBJ's stats this year are just gaudy.

The really tightly contested award this year SHOULD be MIP (Monroe, DMC, a few others) but it will probably go to Lin. I'm not sure how just that is.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
giri said:
Not to say that OKC are un-talented, but they're not as talented as the Heat are. OKC getting as many wins as they do rely more on Durant than Miami do on LBJ.

I don't think its as clear cut as people would like to make it out to be.

But i can see a case for either player.

LBJ's stats this year are just gaudy.
Click to expand...

I'd take Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka over Wade, Bosh and whoever the Heat's next best player is.
 
P

Puddles

Banned
CoffeeJanitor said:
explain
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His assist stats are boosted because of how he's used in the offense. His rebounding stats are boosted because of how he's deployed on the floor.

He's literally the only player I've ever seen who could have a terrible game and still somehow luck his way to a triple double.

Not that he's a bad player; he's a pretty damn good player, but Durant is just better.
 
S

SephCast

Brotherhood of Shipley's
I know we just, once again, talked about the Derrick Rose PG/SG debate, but this was an interesting article:

http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012/04/10/leaders-of-nbas-elusive-hockey-assist/

Commentators often mention the elusive “hockey assist” as an important potential statistic that could prove that Player X is a better passer than his regular assist numbers might indicate. But tracking hockey assists isn’t easy. Basketball moves very fast in real time, and defining what should count as a hockey assist is tricky. Imagine a possession in which one player hands the ball to a point guard at the top of the key, clears to the corner and watches as the point guard records an assist several seconds later on a pick-and-roll. Has that initial player contributed anything meaningful?

Good news: 10 NBA teams have purchased a super-sophisticated camera system from STATS LLC that tracks every movement on an NBA court to a precise degree. These are the same cameras, you’ll recall, that told us Tony Parker is the fastest point guard in the NBA. These cameras can track and sort everything, and the STATS folks decided to track hockey assists using a specific definition: A hockey assist, for STATS, occurs when Player X passes to Player Y, and Player Y then records an assist after holding the ball for two or fewer seconds and taking zero dribbles. The goal of the two seconds/no dribbles criteria is to isolate situations in which the initial pass — the hockey assist — has compromised the defense to the degree that the player who then records the “real” assist has little work left to do other than make a relatively simple pass.

So, who has the most hockey assists? Who records more hockey assists than we might expect? Who records fewer than we might expect? Before we answer, it’s important to note the caveats here: The STATS cameras are in only 10 of 30 arenas, and in order to filter out random noise, the STATS study supplied to SI.com tracked only players who have appeared in front of the cameras in at least eight games this season. That rules out some pretty darn good passers, including Chris Paul and Deron Williams.

Without further ado, here’s the hockey assist leaderboard, with total games tracked in parentheses:

1. Derrick Rose, 1.9 per game (10 games)
2. Steve Nash, 1.6 per game (8 games)
2. Raymond Felton, 1.6 per game (11 games)
4. Mike Conley, 1.4 per game (8 games)
4. Tony Parker, 1.4 per game (31 games)
6. Brandon Jennings, 1.3 per game (29 games)
6. Rajon Rondo, 1.3 per game (26 games)

All tied at 1.1 per game: Russell Westbrook (35 games), Darren Collison (12 games), Manu Ginobili (15 games) and Jose Calderon (29 games).

You’ll notice that the hockey-assist rankings don’t line up with the overall assist rankings. Rondo and Calderon drop, while allegedly so-so passers like Westbrook, Conley and Jennings shoot up the rankings. Each of those three players, along with Ginobili, has a higher ratio of hockey assists to regular assists than the average player tracked in this study.

You could read this data any way you like, which makes it both confounding and interesting. It may end up saying just as much about a player’s teammates as it does about a particular player.

Take Conley, for instance: He averages a ho-hum 6.8 assists per game for a team that has ranked near the bottom of the league in assist rate every season he’s been in the league, but he does well here. Why? Well, he has the ball quite a bit, and he runs a lot of pick-and-rolls with Marc Gasol, one of the best passing big men in the league. How would John Wall (just 0.5 hockey assists per game in 19 games) or Calderon (fourth in the league in regular assists) fare in this category had they played a ton of minutes this season with a big-man passer on Gasol’s level?

Jennings ranks just 18th in assists per game and doesn’t have a big man on Gasol’s level, but he finds himself this season as the trigger man for a newly pass-happy Bucks team that assists on a higher percentage of its hoops than all but one team (Boston). Is Jennings improving as a creator, or is he benefiting from a dynamic team context? It’s probably a bit of both.

We might expect Rondo, the league leader in assists, to do better here, especially because Kevin Garnett remains a splendid interior passer. But on an aging team of players who aren’t as good as they used to be at creating their own shots, Rondo’s job is to make the last pass — to set up a shot attempt, rather than start a series of passes leading to an eventual open look. The same might true of Ricky Rubio (just 0.6 hockey assists in 26 games); Kevin Love and Nikola Pekovic have worked mostly as finishers this season, and Minnesota’s wing players aren’t especially threatening passers.

It’s fitting that Rose is the leader by a decent margin, because that stat matches well with the eye test and says quite a bit about both Rose and his teammates. You can picture those hockey assists in your head right away, can’t you? Rose sets up for a pick-and-roll with Joakim Noah, and Noah’s man decides to trap Rose above the three-point arc. Rose threads a bounce pass to Noah at the foul line, and Noah, seeing Carlos Boozer’s man rotating his way, slips a quick-hitter to Boozer for a layup. The sequence happens so often, both because Rose demands so much attention and because Noah and Boozer are clever passers capable of playing either role in the above scenario.

The appearance of two San Antonio guards here is not a surprise; no team whips the ball around as quickly or precisely as do the Spurs.

Lastly, Westbrook does quite well here, considering he averages just 5.4 assists for a team that ranks last in assist rate. And Westbrook actually ranked even higher based on the criteria STATS first used in defining hockey assists, says Brian Kopp, a vice president at STATS. The company started with a broader definition of hockey assists that would have allowed for the final passer to hold the ball for up to four seconds and take two dribbles before dishing the actual assist. The company chose that benchmark after studying how the NBA scores actual assists. When using this definition for hockey assists, Westbrook averaged more such secondary dimes than any player in the STATS sample, Kopp says.

But the company ultimately decided the four seconds/two dribbles standard counted too many mundane passes that did little to break a defense, and thus did not fit well with the concept of hockey assists. The company is open to other criteria sets somewhere in between the initial one and the current one, which is a reminder that we are at the beginning stages in this marriage of advanced stats and video technology. The possibilities are exciting.
Click to expand...
 
J

J2 Cool

Member
Encouraged by Rip's game tonight. I like his activity when he plays. He adds something unique to the team, and offensive scrappiness.
 
E

Emwitus

Member
Kobe
Gasol
Bynum
Sessions

Lebron
Wade
Bosh
Chambers

Durant
Ibaka
Harden
Westbrook

Rose
Noah
Boozer
Deng

Garnett
Pierce
Rondo
Ray Ray

Who better in their primes? I still pick celts. If this group got together sooner we would have been talking about mulitple rings in 00s. Tho prime kobe is worth two players.
 
C

CoffeeJanitor

Member
^^^Gotta go with the Celts there. Completely loaded. They have the most impactful defender, the best passer, one of the best shooters of all time, and um....Pierce.

pilonv1 said:
having so many touches

same reason Lin had such high stats, same reason Love has them.
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This is bullshit. If Love was doing what he does because he gets so many touches, he wouldn't be putting up historic numbers. The only players to put up 26 pts/ 13 reb in the last 30 years are Shaq and Hakeem. Why haven't we seen a ton of scrubs on bad teams go off for numbers like this over the years? And its not like he's being inefficient.

Puddles said:
His assist stats are boosted because of how he's used in the offense. His rebounding stats are boosted because of how he's deployed on the floor.

He's literally the only player I've ever seen who could have a terrible game and still somehow luck his way to a triple double.

Not that he's a bad player; he's a pretty damn good player, but Durant is just better.
Click to expand...
He's used in the offense in that way because of how how great his skill set is. He's a great passer, ball handler, playmaker etc. The fact that a triple double for him can be construed as a shit game puts into perspective what your expectations of the guy are.

You can't just say he's a system player. You think if you replaced him with a random SF like Turkeyglue or Gallinari that they would be putting up the same kind of numbers? Get real.
 
S

SephCast

Brotherhood of Shipley's
J2 Cool said:
Encouraged by Rip's game tonight. I like his activity when he plays. He adds something unique to the team, and offensive scrappiness.
Click to expand...

Yeah, if we get to the ECF and face the Heat, and Rip can play like this, we have a good shot. Rose won't have to try hero-ball all the time and actually run a play.
 
T

TheGreatMightyPoo

Banned
SephCast said:
Yeah, if we get to the ECF and face the Heat, and Rip can play like this, we have a good shot. Rose won't have to try hero-ball all the time and actually run a play.
Click to expand...

Rip's shooting will be key.

If he can find that rhythm, the Bulls will be tough to beat as he always makes the right pass it seems and plays decent defense(his height against Wade will help some).

Hopefully, Derrick and him will be able to play several games together this last stretch and get out and run like they did earlier in the year as well.
 
G

giri

Member
CoffeeJanitor said:
This is bullshit. If Love was doing what he does because he gets so many touches, he wouldn't be putting up historic numbers. The only players to put up 26 pts/ 13 reb in the last 30 years are Shaq and Hakeem. Why haven't we seen a ton of scrubs on bad teams go off for numbers like this over the years? And its not like he's being inefficient.
.
Click to expand...

Just because a player gets the touches, doesn't mean they'll convert the opotunities.

but it doesn't mean on a good team, they'd not get as many looks either.

Love wouldn't be putting up his recent numbers if everyone was healthy on that wolves team.
 
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