iamshadowlark
Banned
Heat without Bosh would have loss to a 100% Bulls? Are you Magic?
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2012 NBA Finals |OT| Good Job, Good Effort
- Thread starter reilo
- Start date
Heat without Bosh would have loss to a 100% Bulls? Are you Magic?
Roger Danish
Member
Let's be real. All teams being 100% healthy, the Celtics would still have been a worse match-up for the Heat than the Bulls.
My point is that you said that the Celtics would give the Heat more trouble than the Bulls, and yet, you seem to acknowledge that the Bulls could beat the Heat, without Bosh.
The Celtics couldn't beat the Heat, even without Bosh, but the Bulls probably could beat the Heat, if they didn't have Bosh.
Do you agree? Otherwise, I agree that a healthy Heat could stomp any team in the East.
MiamiWesker
Member
We had Bosh the last two games against the Celtics and we won, not sure if Bosh is not there if we win game 7. Sorry I think the Celtics are a better team than the Bulls and a worse matchup for us.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
Truth.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Yeah the Celtics are a smart team.
Roger Danish
Member
They were up 3-2 before Bosh started getting real playing time. So, yes, they could have beaten the Heat without Bosh. It just never came to that.
I disagree there. I've said since the beginning of the season that the Heat would beat the Bulls, but a series between the two would fall on how well Bosh performs (he was the key last year imo). If the Bulls had the same opportunity as the Celtics to face a Bosh-less Heat, I think they would have beaten the Heat in 6.
EDIT: I just don't respect the ability of the Celtics to last in a long series, no matter what. They showed that in game 6. They were too hobbled and tired.
Rolls eyes. What did mvPgarnett average in the last two games against the cHeats with Bosh playing full minutes?
Yeah, like I give a fuck what someone who thought Rip Hamilton was going into the Hall of Fame thinks, lol.
Did I think or ask? And who cares what you think?
iamshadowlark
Banned
Ledefer can't even outchoke Durant in the fourth. Just doesnt have that killer instinct.
I think you need shadowlarks tag or some variation thereof
Apparently you do, if you felt the need to comment on something I said.
Roger Danish
Member
Umm... a 13-6? I get the feeling you're being sarcastic, but I can't tell in which direction.
I wouldn't mind.
Roger Danish
Member
Orrrrrrrrr Bosh finally got run and LeBron went into God-Mode?
I don't disagree, but the premise is flawed. The Celtics probably would have won if Bosh never came back.
The amazing thing is that Bosh only played 28 minutes in game 6, which is 7 minutes shy of full minutes for him, so I really don't get his point.
His numbers plummeted in the last two games with bosh....more so cause he had to defend/move more out of the paint area and he was no longer the defacto tallest person on the court. Celtics win the series without bosh coming back but then a healthy celts would definetly demolish the heat just like they did in two of the regular season games.
So bringing in a fresh player when they were playing every game on 1 days rest benefited the team with the fresh player over the team that had played 20 games in 40 days?
You don't say.
Possibly. Still, my point is that against a Bosh less Heat, the Bulls are MORE TROUBLE for the Heat than Boston, imo, which was what I was debating against Miamiwesker's point that Celtics provided more trouble against the Heat than the Bulls.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Yeah but there aren't many players who could just come into a NBA playoff game, after 9 games off and be effective. Especially not against a defense like Boston. Bosh is legit and people refuse to acknowledge that. He's probably the second most important guy on the team at this point.
I disagree.
If this play offs prove anything, its that bosh is the single most important guy on that team.
Of the Big 3, he's the most untradable anyway, IMO.
And i agree, he did a great job of just coming back and being an impact.
But the part of it is also true, boston were old and fatigued. So were LBJ and Wade. Bosh was relatively fresh in comparison.
Roger Danish
Member
Again, I have no clue which direction you're trying to cut with your sarcasm. Are you saying that Bosh's contribution amounted to nothing more than "fresh legs?" That Boston would have beaten Miami if they had a (presumably tired) Bosh playing the whole series? That Chicago would've run both teams out of the gym either way? Considering the posts that I was responding to, I'm legitimately lost.
Okay, I see. I agree that Bulls would beat a Bosh-less Heat and that the Celtics lost to a half-Bosh Heat, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the Bulls would've had a better chance than the Celtics of knocking off a Bosh-full Heat.
We'll just have to disagree there.
I think, against a Bosh-less Heat, the Bulls are a tougher challenge for the Heat than Boston. I still say the Bulls would have beaten the Heat in 6, while the Celtics might have beaten them in 7 (the Celtics weren't winning that game 6 we saw, Bosh or no Bosh).
Roger Danish
Member
To be fair, when LeBron is in God-Mode, no one is beating the Heat.
Lmao he was just jacking up 3s and missed all but 1. Played some solid D at the end tho.
So basically like this last season
iamvin22
Industry Verified
It's really a shame the Celtics couldn't clamp down for one more game. On their own fucking home court.
I already hate that franchise. Blowing the best chance anyone's had to knock Bron out of the playoffs is downright unforgivable. The nightmare could have ended then and there. Instead we need OKC to win 3 out of 4, which isn't impossible, but doesn't seem likely.
I already hate that franchise. Blowing the best chance anyone's had to knock Bron out of the playoffs is downright unforgivable. The nightmare could have ended then and there. Instead we need OKC to win 3 out of 4, which isn't impossible, but doesn't seem likely.
iamvin22
Industry Verified
I implied none of those things at all.
I'm implying that bringing in a fresh rested top 15 player against a side that has been playing a lot of ball in very tiring circumstances, benefited the heat immensely. More than just Bosh playing the whole time would have.
Chicago with healthy rose, would probably have swept that Heat team out of the play offs before bosh could come back.
I have no real idea how a healthy bulls healthy heat team would have gone, because i don't think a healthy version of both teams played each other at any stage last year. But the Bulls upgraded with Hamilton, the Heat.. don't seem to have improved much at all (Wade could be said to have regressed if anything). So it's probably a lot closer than last year series. And as much as people want to point out that series was wrapped up in 5 games, a lot of those games were really close, and only lost in the last 6 minutes of the 4th quarter.
If bosh was healthy the whole time, Roy hibberts new contract would be for about 7M, not 14M. And i doubt that Celtics series goes over 5 games.
Roger Danish
Member
Agreed, but he wasn't. That fact alone torpedoes the whole "Heat had da easiest path 2 da finals EVARRR" argument that I was responding to.
If the Heat close this out, talk of an "asterisk" is silly, given that a.) the Rose-led Bulls were FAR from a presumptive favorite in the East (at best, I'd have given them a 50/50 shot against the Heat with Bosh), and 2.) these Thunder may be a better team overall than the Bulls (even with a 100% Rose). Let's leave the asterisk arguments to homer-ass sports writers from Boston.
The only asterisk is becaus the spurs still get one on their shortened season win.
Their path to the finals was pretty easy. Their opponents were incredibly weak. The bosh injury was the only impediment they REALLY faced. Though thats the East for you, and it's not why they get a *
Roger Danish
Member
For the record, I wouldn't give the '99 Spurs an asterisk, either. I just find it funny that talk of an asterisk this year seems to get forgotten anytime Miami falls behind in a series... only to coincidentally resurface when they start winning again.
Bottom line: we're very likely seeing the two best teams in the league play for the championship. That doesn't happen every year. Whichever team wins, the title will be legit.
Jesus christ at people resorting to fanfic to rationalise how OKC "deserved" this one.
This series isn't over by any stretch and if the thunder win game 4 they're probably a nose ahead. However unless LeBron monumentally shits the bed and costs Miami the series, the knock on him is gone. He's stomped the haters into the ground the last few weeks.
Oh, and wow at cloving being called out by an actual cancer patient and responding like a complete prick.
This series isn't over by any stretch and if the thunder win game 4 they're probably a nose ahead. However unless LeBron monumentally shits the bed and costs Miami the series, the knock on him is gone. He's stomped the haters into the ground the last few weeks.
Oh, and wow at cloving being called out by an actual cancer patient and responding like a complete prick.
iamshadowlark
Banned
What major injury did the Bulls have in the ECF last year? Or Heat for that matter? Even Bulls fans knew this year that it was long shot of them beating the heat 4 times in the playoffs, and thats before the injuries came into play. They didn't really address any of their weaknesses and the Rip pickup was miniscule. I'd rate that as about lateral to the Battier pickup.
Like we discussed earlier this year, a 5 game series isn't really close.
iamshadowlark
Banned
TBF some have been calling asterisks since the lockout was still on. Its still strange to me though, as a lockout season is alot tougher than the regular one. And yeah it still takes 16 wins to get a chip. And you still have to go thru the best team of the Wild Wild Best.
That heat bulls series was a lot closer than people like to remember. But it did exploit and flaunt the Bulls biggest weakness as a team.
But the bulls got better by getting rid of Bogans. AND they got Hamilton. They got better right there, twice.
How much better? We'll probably never know cause i doubt Rose plays with Hamilton before his contract runs out.
iamshadowlark
Banned
And we got better by picking up Battier. The Hamilton pickup is a moot point. Its not like he was doin much anyway.
benjipwns
Banned
Battier was pretty bad this year before the Finals.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Offensively yea but that was never supposed to be his job anyway.
TrueHoop said:
Thunder completely shot themselves in the foot sitting Durant. Like the article mentions, the logic of preemptively sitting players almost never pays off. Much like coaches in the NFL going for field goals in late game situations, the rationale is more to do with protecting their asses than with playing to win.
If you don't preemptively sit your player and they end up fouling out, then the media will absolutely destroy you. If, on the other hand, you do sit him and he does not foul out but you lose the game the media (outside of a few more observant outlets) and public find something else to blame the loss on. As long as it's not you.
I remember JVG said as much with regards to sitting Yao after he got in foul trouble. He would usually sit him if he got 3 fouls before the half, only to have him end the game with 4 fouls. Eventually he wised up and decided he would just leave him out there and hope for the best.
The Chosen One
Member
Ugh... it's the first time Lebron has faced an elimination game and actually survived...
But yeah, the Celts could beat Wade and Lebron, and half-Bosh. But they can't beat the Heat with a full-Bosh.
Lebron is going to get the Finals MVP, but it's a shame Bosh will still be vastly underrated on this team. Bosh is the one who basically saved their season, especially with Wade still playing mostly terribad.
If OKC can get a convincing win in game 4, then we might still have a series. But I just don't see how that's possible considering how bad the Heat played today and still won....