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2012 NBA Playoffs |OT| Tanks for the Memories

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Blackace

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Emwitus said:
KG was a far more versatile defender than TD. He could gaurd almost all positions on D compared to TD except maybe the 1 due to his lateral movement. Otherwise, overall, for defense i would take KG.
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KG couldn't defend his position better than TD so the fact that he could cover a 3 better than TD isn't impressive..
Justin Timberlake said:
Tim Duncan is the greatest defensive player of all time...
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Well he was no Dream..
 
D

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
I would say Boston is done...

But Atlanta is team of big dummies and this game should've been over in the 2nd quarter

edit: how many people here actually saw Russell play? I mean damn...
 
B

Boombloxer

Member
Blackace said:
TD and Tyson are better all around defenders, if that makes sense. KG was and still is awesome on D tho.. but I always felt like he was strongest with help D. I like prime TD in the post one on one on anyone not named Shaq
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I can roll with that. TD is one of, if not the best.

I can see Tyson as maybe being all-around better, but in terms of help D, and even one-on-one and pumping his teammates up, KG's still it to me. Fake tough guy act and all.

Tim Duncan is the greatest defensive player of all time...
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...and then it goes too far. Dream would like a word with you.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
Justin Timberlake said:
Maybe Bill. I dunno.

I've never watched him and frankly I consider pre late 70s ball to be another era entirely and incomparable.
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Rodman, Cooper, Scottie, Dream, Payton?

It's hard to compare the wing/pg defenders to bigs, though. I think perimeter D is much harder. I don't know if I'd say anyone can claim to be the best defender period. best perimeter and best big defender, sure.

Timmy has a strong case for best big man defender of all-time.

edit: how many people here actually saw Russell play? I mean damn...
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eh, he said "all-time." Don't say that if we can't claim them.
 
E

Emwitus

Member
Blackace said:
KG couldn't defend his position better than TD so the fact that he could cover a 3 better than TD isn't impressive..


Well he was no Dream..
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So if TD is slightly(In you're opinion) better than KG in defending his position that negates his ability to defend all the other 3 positions?
 
G

giri

Member
TD and KG were probably better defenders in their Prime than Tyson.

But right now, Tyson is better.

Thats not a knock on either.
 
Blackace

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Emwitus said:
So if TD is slightly(In you're opinion) better than KG in defending his position that negates his ability to defend all the other 3 positions?
Click to expand...

TD could defend the 4 and 5 better than KG.. and well that was their job.
 
D

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
Emwitus said:
So if TD is slightly(In you're opinion) better than KG in defending his position that negates his ability to defend all the other 3 positions?
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The latter part of that statement further clarifies the part about being a help defender.

And my love for KG's defense is probably higher than most of the regulars here... but TD was probably the 2nd best 1 on 1 post defender over the past 20 years. He was also an amazing help defender (in which he wouldn't switch off and do crazy shit like KG did... they ran some otherwise impossible zone setups with KG in Minn.) too.
 
D

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
Emwitus said:
KG was alot faster than TD in term of help defense. One on one, Sure, maybe you can make a case for TD being better. But in terms of running a defense, KG is far better and more versatile.
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Until its time to get your ass in the paint and do the dirty work necessary to guard the more physical bigs in the NBA.

That's never been where he's excelled.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
Using a simple method of estimating pace, we can estimate Offensive and Defensive Ratings for teams before 1974. Let’s start with Bill Russell‘s famed Boston Celtic defense. Included is the year before he joined the team and the year after he left. The league rank also includes the number of teams (eg 1/8 is first of 8 teams).

(1) The Celtics led the league in defense in all 13 of Bill Russell’s seasons.
(2) From 1958-1966 they dominated the league defensively like no team I can find for a nine year period.
(3) From 1961-1965 the ran off five consecutive historically dominant seasons. Look at those numbers.
(4) Before Russell they were a bottom defensive team and immediately jumped 6.0 relative points to the top.
(5) After Russell they dropped to the middle of the pack, losing 5.9 relative points.

According to Neil’s method at B-R, who is slightly underestimating Boston’s pace relative to the simple method (because he’s assuming fewer turnovers are in play), those uber-dominant Celtics teams are the 3rd, 5th, 6th, 8th and 13th best defensive teams of all time, relative to competition. And there’s nothing remotely comparable in NBA history for such sustained defensive dominance.
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There's only a few games available to see of Russell, but he usually looks super impressive in those games.

http://www.backpicks.com/2010/12/31/bill-russells-defensive-impact/
 
A

aznpxdd

Member
C'mon Kado. Bowen wouldn't be able to do half the shit he does without having one of the greatest defending big behind him.
 
C

charsace

Member
Emwitus said:
KG was a far more versatile defender than TD. He could gaurd almost all positions on D compared to TD except maybe the 1 due to his lateral movement. Otherwise, overall, for defense i would take KG.
Click to expand...

TD was a versatile defender in his day and a much better post defender than KG. KG was a better perimeter defender, but you don't draft bigs for that. TD was a better man to man post defender and was better at blowing up pick and rolls.
 
Blackace

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Emwitus said:
KG was alot faster than TD in term of help defense. One on one, Sure, maybe you can make a case for TD being better. But in terms of running a defense, KG is far better and more versatile.
Click to expand...


DY_nasty said:
He's right. KG wasn't anywhere near TD's level regarding defending other bigs.
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Pretty much.. TD was also quite fast, you just didn't notice it because he was as exciting as toast without butter..
 
J

Justin Timberlake

Member
Bigs have a much larger impact on defense than wings. Please don't list wings or you look absolutely insane.

And you guys have such an irrational hard-on for Hakeem that I'm not even going to bother. I'll take top 2 modern era defense if thats what would make you guys happy.
 
D

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
dumbass hawks.... its only a fucking 5 point game in spite of all of your highlights you clowns
 
E

Emwitus

Member
DY_nasty said:
Until its time to get your ass in the paint and do the dirty work necessary to guard the more physical bigs in the NBA.

That's never been where he's excelled.
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KG plays more in the 4 position than 5. His limitations on gaurding Big 5s are his size not because of his prowess on defense.
 
E

Emwitus

Member
Justin Timberlake said:
Bigs have a much larger impact on defense than wings. Please don't list wings or you look absolutely insane.

And you guys have such an irrational hard-on for Hakeem that I'm not even going to bother. I'll take top 2 modern era defense if thats what would make you guys happy.
Click to expand...


Would you call Tony allen a good defensive player?
 
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