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[GremlinFool]

Kobe has a lot of personality and is generally a much more intelligent person than Jordan.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Kobe was lucky enough to be drafted into one of the best organizations in basketball. If you can't see the difference between what he and LeBron went through for their first few years, I don't even know what to tell you.

Did Kobe Bryant join a Lakers team that consisted of a Dwayne Wade & Chris Bosh tandem? No? Ok then. Was Kobe Bryant in his prime when he joined up? No? Ok then. Kobe Bryant was drafted by the Lakers and they had Shaq. LeBron was a 2 time MVP joining up with Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh. If you can't see the difference I don't even know what to say.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

What do you think Kobe will do when he is done playing? Will he be one of those we never hear from again, or do you think he will stay connected to the game?

I hope it won't be Jordan like. Between his joke ownership, and his terrible HOF speech. Respect dropped.

Your respect for Jordan has dropped from THAT???

 

[fredrancour]

Kobe has a lot of personality and is generally a much more intelligent person than Jordan.

C'mon now, I'm sure Jordan is far smarter than the fashion decisions indicate.

 

[Gordon0Freeman]

So many insecure Kobe fans.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Did Kobe Bryant join a Lakers team that consisted of a Dwayne Wade & Chris Bosh tandem? No? Ok then. Was Kobe Bryant in his prime when he joined up? No? Ok then. Kobe Bryant was drafted by the Lakers and they had Shaq. LeBron was a 2 time MVP joining up with Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh. If you can't see the difference I don't even know what to say.

The point is that Cleveland wasn't a great situation. Lakers have paired kobe with great big men. Btw, i would take Shaq over Wade+ Bosh, easy. Takes nothing away from kobe. I'm just saying you can't fault lebron for going into free agency. You can fault him for how he went about it, but don't fault him for making use of his options

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

What do you think Kobe will do when he is done playing? Will he be one of those we never hear from again, or do you think he will stay connected to the game?

I hope it won't be Jordan like. Between his joke ownership, and his terrible HOF speech. Respect dropped.

Kobe seems to anti-social to be around basketball in any publicized shape or form once his career is over. I would imagine it would be similar to Jordan.

 

[SUPREME1]

Do you fault Kobe for playing with Shaq? Or getting Gasol giftwrapped to him? Teams generally need two or three dominant players to chip

Welcome to free agency, bro

Really bad comparisons.


Kobe had played zero NBA games, his success came years later. So, it's not like he left another team where he had success to team up with other stars. He was a 17yr old kid (youngest player ever at the time as a matter of fact).

Pau had won ZERO playoff games... and was far from being on the same level as a player as was Wade when they were teamed up. He didn't even have the success that Bosh did individually or as a team. Never forget that LeBron left a team he'd been to the finals with and had back to back seasons of having the best record in the league. He quit on a team that was doing everything he wanted them to do. He left that because he wanted to stroll into the finals and didn't want the hassle of carrying a team like superstars do year in and year out. While in the East.

 

[PBY]

Really bad comparisons.


Kobe had played zero NBA games, his success came years later. So, it's not like he left another team where he had success to team up with other stars. He was a 17yr old kid (youngest player ever at the time as a matter of fact).

Pau had won ZERO playoff games... and was far from being on the same level as a player as was Wade when they were teamed up. He didn't even have the success that Bosh did individually or as a team. Never forget that LeBron left a team he'd been to the finals with and had back to back seasons of having the best record in the league. He quit on a team that was doing everything he wanted them to do. He left that because he wanted to stroll into the finals and didn't want the hassle of carrying a team like superstars do year in and year out. While in the East.

The cavs were never winning it bro, people need to admit this. Team just wasn't good enough

 

[ThisWreckage]

Did Kobe Bryant join a Lakers team that consisted of a Dwayne Wade & Chris Bosh tandem? No? Ok then. Was Kobe Bryant in his prime when he joined up? No? Ok then. Kobe Bryant was drafted by the Lakers and they had Shaq. LeBron was a 2 time MVP joining up with Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh. If you can't see the difference I don't even know what to say.

I can't blame him for going to Miami. Those Cleveland teams were awful and he still took one of those teams to the Finals. I think that speaks a lot about his abilities. He had to play with Larry Hughes, Big Z, Anthony Parker, an ancient Jamison, headcase Delonte West, etc. Mo Williams is a decent player, but he comes off the bench for the Clippers. Will Mo Williams ever make another all star team? No, but he did when he played with Lebron. I'd argue that Varejao was the best player he ever played with and that is...unfortunate.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

The point is that Cleveland wasn't a great situation. Lakers have paired kobe with great big men. Btw, i would take Shaq over Wade+ Bosh, easy. Takes nothing away from kobe. I'm just saying you can't fault lebron for going into free agency. You can fault him for how he went about it, but don't fault him for making use of his options

Again, I have said I didn't have a problem with him leaving Cleveland, I have a problem with him going to a ready made championship team.

I can't blame him for going to Miami. Those Cleveland teams were awful and he still took one of those teams to the Finals. I think that speaks a lot about his abilities. He had to play with Larry Hughes, Big Z, Anthony Parker, an ancient Jamison, headcase Delonte West, etc. Mo Williams is a decent player, but he comes off the bench for the Clippers. Will Mo Williams ever make another all star team? No, but he did when he played with Lebron. I'd argue that Varejao was the best player he ever played with and that is...unfortunate.

I can't blame him for going to Miami for being the type of man he is which is he wants it the easy way. Thats fine. It's who he is. Other players would've wanted the biggest challenge rather than have it easy. He is who we all knew he was.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

The cavs were never winning it bro, people need to admit this. Team just wasn't good enough

Yeah even before Lebron went all 12 monkeys during those last games Cleveland would have had to do some serious roster upgrades.

 

[PBY]

Again, I have said I didn't have a problem with him leaving Cleveland, I have a problem with him going to a ready made championship team.

Soo.... what you're saying is- you're okay with Lebron going to another better team to find some help, just not TOO good of a team? Thats a really dumb argument man- why wouldn't he go to the best available team?

 

[Raging Spaniard]

I can see about 10 uses for this

 

[charsace]

Kobe was lucky enough to be drafted into one of the best organizations in basketball. If you can't see the difference between what he and LeBron went through for their first few years, I don't even know what to tell you.

Lebron got drafted to an organization that catered to his every whim. Ricky Davis got shipped out because Lebron wanted him gone. Every move the cavs made probably had Lebron's input. The cavs weren't bad for him at all.

The Cavs won 60+ games 2 years in a row. Awful teams don't do that. They were a team built around Lebron. They were built to play defense, rebound and to wait for Lebron to feed them the ball for shots. Like the bulls with Rose.

 

[RedAssedApe]

Kobe System full time but geared toward kid ballers and not celebrities and pro athletes.

 

[SoulPlaya]

Kobe was lucky enough to be drafted into one of the best organizations in basketball. If you can't see the difference between what he and LeBron went through for their first few years, I don't even know what to tell you.

Charlotte Hornets were a great organization?

 

[ReturnOfTheRAT]

I haven't being here long enough to know what was said it 2009/2010, but everywhere else, media included, Mo Williams, Big Z, flopping Varejo, Delonte and Boobie were all the right players to assist the dancing fool on his run through the east. The revisionism going on now is odd to me.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Again, I have said I didn't have a problem with him leaving Cleveland, I have a problem with him going to a ready made championship team.



I can't blame him for going to Miami for being the type of man he is which is he wants it the easy way. Thats fine. It's who he is. Other players would've wanted the biggest challenge rather than have it easy. He is who we all knew he was.

So you're angry about him choosing the optimal situation. Okay.

 

[PBY]

Again, I have said I didn't have a problem with him leaving Cleveland, I have a problem with him going to a ready made championship team.



I can't blame him for going to Miami for being the type of man he is which is he wants it the easy way. Thats fine. It's who he is. Other players would've wanted the biggest challenge rather than have it easy. He is who we all knew he was.

Bro.... you're so wrong. You think if Kobe was in his situation, he'd have gone to some shit team to prove hes the man? Fuck no. Even in LA Kobe was asking for help- if Lebron did what Kobe did in LA, shit I can't even imagine what gaf would say.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Soo.... what you're saying is- you're okay with Lebron going to another better team to find some help, just not TOO good of a team? Thats a really dumb argument man- why wouldn't he go to the best available team?

Not a ready made championship team. No. And apparently I'm not the only one who thinks that:

"There's no way, with hindsight, I would've ever called up Larry [Bird], called up Magic [Johnson] and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team,'" Jordan said.

“(Reggie) Miller and I are in 100% agreement on this," he said. "If you’re the two-time NBA MVP you don’t leave anywhere. They come to you. That’s ridiculous. LeBron will never be Jordan. This clearly takes him out of the conversation.

“There is no way I would have joined Magic or Michael and play with them. The only time I ever wanted to play with Magic was on the Olympic team, and even then our practices were hard, and we beat each other up in practice.

Magic Johnson chimed in with, “We didn’t think about it because that’s not what we were about. From college I was trying to figure out how to beat Larry Bird”

So yea

 

[ThisWreckage]

Lebron got drafted to an organization that catered to his every whim. Ricky Davis got shipped out because Lebron wanted him gone. Every move the cavs made probably had Lebron's input. The cavs weren't bad for him at all.

The Cavs won 60+ games 2 years in a row. Awful teams don't do that. They were a team built around Lebron. They were built to play defense, rebound and to wait for Lebron to feed them the ball for shots. Like the bulls with Rose.

They didn't cater to his every whim. They never even paired him with a legitimate second option. A lot of people on this board feel that Dwight Howard has a right to be pissed because of what surrounds him in Orlando. Well, I've got news for you---the team Dwight is currently on is way, way, way better than any team that surrounded Lebron in Cleveland. It isn't even close.

They had a shot at some real talent, but refused to part with J.J. Hickson. There are no words.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

I haven't being here long enough to know what was said it 2009/2010, but everywhere else, media included, Mo Williams, Big Z, flopping Varejo, Delonte and Boobie were all the right players to assist the dancing fool on his run through the east. The revisionism going on now is odd to me.

Exactly.

 

[Prototype-03]

Man, all this debate is crazy. Personally, LBJ did what he had to do. I am NOT against that. They want their own big 3? Okay, go do it. But don't make him a little angel and say he did everything right. He screwed over an owner that had his back 100%... It was to the point where he didn't even rebuild the team because LBJ never told him he was leaving. I'm not saying that the Cavs built the right team but they were doing everything to win AND to cater to him.

There are players like Dirk, who will stick it out and hope the owner will find the right pieces (he did). There are players who will stick to their loyalty even without championships (Nash). There are people who publicly demanded a trade (Kobe, Dwight).

There's only a backlash when a player does a wrongdoing, NOT from what they want. Dwight got a backlash because he was being a baby and kept going back and forth. LBJ got a backlash because he did that waste of time "The Decision" and screwed over the owner. Not to say that the Heat intro was one of the douchiest things I've ever seen.

All I gotta say is LBJ better win a championship, otherwise he's going to be seen as the NBA clown.

 

[CherryWoodFuton]

Cloving said that he doesn't care about individual players all he cares about is his team. So we're in agreement that Lebron going to the Heat is the best thing that ever happened to the team right?

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Lebron got drafted to an organization that catered to his every whim. Ricky Davis got shipped out because Lebron wanted him gone. Every move the cavs made probably had Lebron's input. The cavs weren't bad for him at all.

The Cavs won 60+ games 2 years in a row. Awful teams don't do that. They were a team built around Lebron. They were built to play defense, rebound and to wait for Lebron to feed them the ball for shots. Like the bulls with Rose.

Any org that listens to their players when making moves is stupid. As a Wolves fan who lived through KGs tenure, I know this.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Cloving said that he doesn't care about individual players all he cares about is his team. So we're in agreement that Lebron going to the Heat is the best thing that ever happened to the team right?

I have no problem with you rooting for the Heat since its your team. I root for the Lakers because its my team but I am no defending Bynum nor Pau the way you folks defend LeBron.

 

[DY_nasty]

Charlotte Hornets were a great organization?

Charlotte only drafted as part of a deal.

People were willing to let Kobe slide all the way out of the lottery because of his "I'll only play for the Lakers" angle. He didn't refuse to play with Charlotte, he refused to play with anyone.

We got Vlade out of it. *shrug*

 

[ThisWreckage]

The Cavs organization is not the Bulls organization. It wasn't a competent one. They had many years to pair Lebron with a Batman and they never did it. That's incompetence and it's the big reason why Lebron left.

 

[Prototype-03]

The Cavs organization is not the Bulls organization. It wasn't a competent one. They had many years to pair Lebron with a Batman and they never did it. That's incompetence and it's the big reason why Lebron left.

Why didn't he just say this and then leave? Why did he make The Decision?

 

[CherryWoodFuton]

I have no problem with you rooting for the Heat since its your team. I root for the Lakers because its my team but I am no defending Bynum nor Pau the way you folks defend LeBron.

I don't think I defended Lebron for the shit he's fucked up on here but yea a lot of fans put their players up on pedestals not just Heat fans...

 

[captmcblack]

Man, all this debate is crazy. Personally, LBJ did what he had to do. I am NOT against that. They want their own big 3? Okay, go do it. But don't make him a little angel and say he did everything right. He screwed over an owner that had his back 100%... It was to the point where he didn't even rebuild the team because LBJ never told him he was leaving. I'm not saying that the Cavs built the right team but they were doing everything to win AND to cater to him.

There are players like Dirk, who will stick it out and hope the owner will find the right pieces (he did). There are players who will stick to their loyalty even without championships (Nash). There are people who publicly demanded a trade (Kobe, Dwight).

There's only a backlash when a player does a wrongdoing, NOT from what they want. Dwight got a backlash because he was being a baby and kept going back and forth. LBJ got a backlash because he did that waste of time "The Decision" and screwed over the owner. Not to say that the Heat intro was one of the douchiest things I've ever seen.

All I gotta say is LBJ better win a championship, otherwise he's going to be seen as the NBA clown.

And this is really all that matters.
If LBJ wins some titles - hell, even 1 title - in Miami, then you can just invalidate any anti-Lebron commentary by flashing that ring. Until then, he's like NBA pre-2009 A-Rod.

 

[Black Mamba]

The Cavs organization is not the Bulls organization. It wasn't a competent one. They had many years to pair Lebron with a Batman and they never did it. That's incompetence and it's the big reason why Lebron left.

Don't think you want to use the Bulls, here. Until Rose fell into their lap, they were a laughingstock for holding onto their assets endlessly when given chances to get KG or Pau but Deng was too much for that.

And they gave Ben $15 million well past his prime.

 

[DY_nasty]

Why didn't he just say this and then leave? Why did he make The Decision?

Yeah, it kinda clashes.

All I saw on the court was a guy who wanted to leave regardless. He could've beat Boston that series.

 

[CherryWoodFuton]

Why didn't he just say this and then leave? Why did he make The Decision?

Because Maverick Carter is an idiot and LBJ is an idiot for ever listening to him.....

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Why didn't he just say this and then leave? Why did he make The Decision?

Because he and his handlers were morons

Read the deadspin article

 

[ThisWreckage]

Don't think you want to use the Bulls, here. Until Rose fell into their lap, they were a laughingstock for holding onto their assets endlessly when given chances to get KG or Pau but Deng was too much for that.

And they gave Ben $15 million well past his prime.

I certainly do. Because even after everything you said, the Bulls still were running things prior to Rose better than Cleveland did when they still had Lebron.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Because he and his handlers were morons

Read the deadspin article

Nobody forced him to guarantee 8 chips, did they.

 

[Prototype-03]

Because he and his handlers were morons

Read the deadspin article

I totally missed this. Can someone get the link again?

 

[captmcblack]

Ehh, handlers are handlers.

These players are men, and when they make decisions, they have to live with the repercussions. LBJ cosigned all of the things that went into going to MIA the way he did, so he has to accept that people aren't exactly as fond of him as they used to be as a result of that.

If he wants that to change, just win.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Nobody forced him to guarantee 8 chips, did they.

Maybe he saw the Bulls Super Fans "minimum 8 peat" skit on SNL.

He's easily influenced and rarely grounded in reality.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Ehh, handlers are handlers.

These players are men, and when they make decisions, they have to live with the repercussions. LBJ cosigned all of the things that went into going to MIA the way he did, so he has to accept that people aren't exactly as fond of him as they used to be as a result of that.

If he wants that to change, just win.

He can't just win. He has to be the leader and the driving force in a championship run. He has to prove himself the way that Magic, Bird, MJ, Isaiah, Kobe, Duncan, and others had to do.

 

[Black Mamba]

I certainly do. Because even after everything you said, the Bulls still were running things prior to Rose better than Cleveland did when they still had Lebron.

No, they really weren't. Unless until Rose fell into their lap being a 40 win team a couple times demonstrates that.

Chicago is a terrible example, here. Without Rose, Paxon built that team to be Houston East.

 

[CherryWoodFuton]

I'm not giving him any excuses because he's 27 and a grown ass man but being called the next MJ when you're only about 16-17 years old, have recruiters, endorsers, and yes men who want to ride your coattails enable you to make decisions that may not be at your best interest, and have a mom that is ghetto as hell and sleeps with your teammate will probably fuck up your decision making skills

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Ehh, handlers are handlers.

These players are men, and when they make decisions, they have to live with the repercussions. LBJ cosigned all of the things that went into going to MIA the way he did, so he has to accept that people aren't exactly as fond of him as they used to be as a result of that.

If he wants that to change, just win.

No doubt. LeBron was/is a moron

 

[Grimm Fandango]

Not a ready made championship team. No. And apparently I'm not the only one who thinks that:

So yea

Awesome post.

 

[PBY]

Nobody forced him to guarantee 8 chips, did they.

I feel like this "guarantee" is taken out of context- rewatch the video.

 

[PBY]

Awesome post.

Can't wait for derrick rose to realize he can't win with your scrubs and pulls his own decision to go to new york.

 

[ThisWreckage]

No, they really weren't. Unless until Rose fell into their lap being a 40 win team a couple times demonstrates that.

Chicago is a terrible example, here. Without Rose, Paxon built that team to be Houston East.

And without Lebron, Cleveland would barely be better than the Bobcats this past season.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

He can't just win. He has to be the leader and the driving force in a championship run. He has to prove himself the way that Magic, Bird, MJ, Isaiah, Kobe, Duncan, and others had to do.

if the Heat win a title Bron will be the best player on that team. the idea that he's a side kick to Wade is out the window. LeBron is by far the superior player.