Support NeoGAF

[thekad]

The only thing Lebron is on is grit and sacrifice.

 

[Future PhaZe]

Wall is probably juicing too. You won't see Faze lighting his torch for him either

Wouldn't be surprised. The way he unfucked himself was night and day crazy.

 

[iamshadowlark]

why lbj in particular? It's pretty obvious from all the recent drug use revelations in professional athletes that a person's physique almost gives you no indication of roid/hgh/ped use.

Personally, I think the vast majority of all professional athletes are on something.

People want to knock him down a peg, is all. Insert their favorite player into the mix and the story changes dramatically. There's as much chance and as much proof that Lebron juiced/juices as there is Jordan. But that reality would never be entertained most places.

 

[Smokey]

I won't say he is or isn't cause i have no idea but how would that seperate him from the other freak athletes of today or even the legends of yesterday?


Which top athlete hasn't gotten a boost from modern science?

why lbj in particular? It's pretty obvious from all the recent drug use revelations in professional athletes that a person's physique almost gives you no indication of roid/hgh/ped use.

Personally, I think the vast majority of all professional athletes are on something.

I didn't say others weren't, but that doesn't make it better or ok for lebron to do it because he's on your team. I specifically said lebron because pimp mentioned him in his post.

People want to knock him down a peg, is all. Insert their favorite player into the mix and the story changes dramatically. There's as much chance and as much proof that Lebron juiced/juices as there is Jordan. But that reality would never be entertained most places.

yep you're right, it's just my opinion. carry on.

 

[Future PhaZe]

People want to knock him down a peg, is all. Insert their favorite player into the mix and the story changes dramatically. There's as much chance and as much proof that Lebron juiced/juices as there is Jordan. But that reality would never be entertained most places.

Stop fucking crying. Heat age is so goddamned defensive about everything man.

People have been shitting on Wade for years. Even when it looked like he would never win again we were lol'ing at his jaw. And guys were shitting on LBJ for PED use for before he left Cleveland, especially when he got that growth removed from his jaw.

And nobody here gives a shit about MJ or any of those old legends. Bet they were on PEDs too.

 

[Psychological Intellect]

I didn't say others weren't, but that doesn't make it better or ok for lebron to do it because he's on your team. I specifically said lebron because pimp mentioned him in his post.

yep you're right, it's just my opinion. carry on.

oh okay. I'm not condoning him if he does it, as I think everybody is taking something.

At a certain point though there needs to be some sort of line drawn on what's okay. I mean if I'm an athlete that's been injured and I'm trying to make some money and taking HGH will help me heal faster then I'm fucking taking it.

Charles Barkely made a good point too. If I were an athlete that's real close to being an NBA caliber player but I need to take something in order to get there?

I'm taking it.

Reggie Miller also said if there was a drug that could have put him on the level of a Jordan or a LeBron then eh's not sure if he'd take it or not.

Episode of Open Court that discussed it.

 

[Pimpwerx]

Jeff Zillgitt ‏@JeffZillgitt
Summer League star Ian Clark signs a two-year deal with the Utah Jazz, his agent Bill Duffy tells USA TODAY Sports. Team option on year two.

Looks like Baby Jesus is going to Utah to get himself some minutes. Too bad. I really wanted us to sign him. The kid can shoot. Varnado can breathe a little easier. PEACE.

 

[iamshadowlark]

I didn't say others weren't, but that doesn't make it better or ok for lebron to do it because he's on your team. I specifically said lebron because pimp mentioned him in his post.



yep you're right, it's just my opinion. carry on.

It has nothing to do with whose on my team. There has been dozens of high flying , ass hauling stars in the league that I've enjoyed watching as much as the next guy. All who have been probably at one point or another in their career have taken something the league says they shouldn't have. But I don't try and call out Jordan because he's greater than anybody who's played on my team. I don't try and discredit AP. I don't grab the pitchforks because Westbrook explodes at a level that I couldn't dream of reaching in the gym. Why? Cause I understand that nine times out of ten, this players are still just as physically imposing as they would be without the shit.

I generally agree with ninja when he says that the witch hunt mentality for PEDs is nothing more than a superficial waste of anyone who's involved time.

Stop fucking crying. Heat age is so goddamned defensive about everything man.

People have been shitting on Wade for years. Even when it looked like he would never win again we were lol'ing at his jaw. And guys were shitting on LBJ for PED use for before he left Cleveland, especially when he got that growth removed from his jaw.

And nobody here gives a shit about MJ or any of those old legends. Bet they were on PEDs too.

Crying? Aren't YOU the one bitching about how PEDs have ruined the sport and wish that there were only JJ redicks or whatever bullshit you were trying to whiteknight? Fuck outta here. Don't get mad because people regulary call you on your bullshit.

 

[exarkun]

Wouldn't be surprised. The way he unfucked himself was night and day crazy.

It also took him blowing out his knee to slow things down and work on his game. I wish Lin did the same...

 

[ph33nix]

I'm not sure what the hell those baseball players were taking when everyone was mashing homers left and right but I don't mind that shit as long as it doesn't have horrible side effects. but anything to make the best athletes even better enhances my viewing experiences

This dude who went to my high school became a national story cause he roided up and got depressed, hung himself. Obviously I don't condone taking that sort of stuff, but who the hell knows what these guys are really doing and the purpose of what they're taking?

I feel like this topic overall is such a gray area

 

[Karakand]

Stop fucking crying. Heat age is so goddamned defensive about everything man.

People have been shitting on Wade for years. Even when it looked like he would never win again we were lol'ing at his jaw. And guys were shitting on LBJ for PED use for before he left Cleveland, especially when he got that growth removed from his jaw.

And nobody here gives a shit about MJ or any of those old legends. Bet they were on PEDs too.

Given his history with gambling, and the trail of bodies in his personal life, I wouldn't be surprised if there were less scientific things that determined the outcomes of Jeffrey's games as well.

 

[giri]

I feel like this topic overall is such a gray area

It's not.

The morality on it is really quite easy.

Stop doping.

It's only gray because people choose to cloud it with unrelated's, and testing is always one step behind.

But it's not that grey. The topic of doping/PED's is really easy to rule on.

 

[Future PhaZe]

I'm not sure what the hell those baseball players were taking when everyone was mashing homers left and right but I don't mind that shit as long as it doesn't have horrible side effects. but anything to make the best athletes even better enhances my viewing experiences

This dude who went to myc high school became a national story cause he roided up and got depressed, hung himself. Obviously I don't condone taking that sort of stuff, but who the hell knows what these guys are really doing and the purpose of what they're taking?

I feel like this topic overall is such a gray area

I also look at cases in the nfl... Homicide, suicide, whatever. Everyone looks at concussions because that's what dominates the headlines but I'd not be shocked if roids were a part of it.

 

[ph33nix]

It's not.

The morality on it is really quite easy.

Stop doping.

It's only gray because people choose to cloud it with unrelated's, and testing is always one step behind.

But it's not that grey. The topic of doping/PED's is really easy to rule on.

So why is it not moral for an athlete to take a substance banned in his sport but not to the common citizen who is getting something over the counter at GNC? There's plenty of shit banned in the MLB that you and I can get but they can't. I think that's stupid

I basically question why they decide certain things are okay and certain things are not

like why was the ray lewis+deer antler spray such a big topic before the super bowl? that was some of the dumbest shit ever

I also look at cases in the nfl... Homicide, suicide, whatever. Everyone looks at concussions because that's what dominates the headlines but I'd not be shocked if roids were a part of it.

Honestly who really knows? Cause I think a lot of the homicide/suicide stuff also comes from the fact that they spent 10-15 years of their life living the highest of highs, then after their playing days are over I could argue a lot of them get depressed and crazy from boredom and do that stuff

going from those sundays to doing nothing all the time can be a real crash

 

[KingGondo]

Fish is re-signing with OKC.

Presti has a plan!

 

[giri]

So why is it not moral for an athlete to take a substance banned in his sport but not to the common citizen who is getting something over the counter at GNC? There's plenty of shit banned in the MLB that you and I can get but they can't. I think that's stupid

I basically question why they decide certain things are okay and certain things are not

I would question why they're sold over the counter?

But i know in AU, quite a few of those are banned from over the counter sales anyway, quite a few GNC products had to be altered for sale here, or just plain aren't.

That probably answers your question better.

But your question isn't about PEDS in professional sport. It's about PEDS in everyday society.

 

[MetalFearSolid]

Apparently, Derek Fisher is coming back for the 3rd time to OKC. What more can he offer? Perkins can make up for his value in terms of experience and leadership, he has been to 3 Finals.

 

[KingGondo]

Apparently, Derek Fisher is coming back for the 3rd time to OKC. What more can he offer? Perkins can make up for his value in terms of experience and leadership, he has been to 3 Finals.

Fish was actually really solid in the playoffs, and I'm not sure we beat Houston without him after YNB went down.

I'm fine with him as a third PG who comes in to take corner threes.

 

[iamshadowlark]

I'm not sure what the hell those baseball players were taking when everyone was mashing homers left and right but I don't mind that shit as long as it doesn't have horrible side effects. but anything to make the best athletes even better enhances my viewing experiences

This dude who went to my high school became a national story cause he roided up and got depressed, hung himself. Obviously I don't condone taking that sort of stuff, but who the hell knows what these guys are really doing and the purpose of what they're taking?

I feel like this topic overall is such a gray area

I agree.

Sports medicine in general is a gray area. At what line does a particular product cross where it becomes "immoral" ? Almost every performance supplement sold exists to artificially trigger natural bodily functions that gives you some sort of advantage then you wouldn't have otherwise. When does it become "dope"?

 

[Black Mamba]

Fish was actually really solid in the playoffs, and I'm not sure we beat Houston without him after YNB went down.

I'm fine with him as a third PG who comes in to take corner threes.

Let's be real here, that was a fluke.

 

[giri]

My stance on PED's, especially in sports for no other purpose than performance gains over someone who isn't, is rather conservative and at odd's largely with my stance on "recreational" drugs.

I actually don't have the slightest problem with recreational drugs and would rather see them all legalised and controlled, i really correlate them with alcohol.

 

[ph33nix]

I would question why they're sold over the counter?

But your question isn't about PEDS in professional sport. It's about PEDS in everyday society.

I would really just like for them to evaluate what exactly is "cheating" or why they want to call use of certain substances cheating and not others, or whatever is not good for the sport

there is nothing natural about the Orthokine procedure Kobe went through, but it's okay simply cause it's not on the banned list?

I suppose sports wants everything to be totally pure, like "What you see all comes from the gym and working out, and only that!" but the reality is that nothing flies like that anymore and I don't see why it's really that important to stay stuck in yesterday if there really is stuff out there that can enhance athletes without harming them in the long term or being a bad influence on the younger generation

I actually don't have the slightest problem with recreational drugs and would rather see them all legalised and controlled, i really correlate them with alcohol.

well that's something we can surely agree on then, brother!

 

[thekad]

Fish is re-signing with OKC.

Presti has a plan!

Worst offseason ever.

 

[ph33nix]

also I might be wrong but isn't HGH actually legal, if prescribed? I had a family friend who injected their son from an early age cause they feared he would grow up too short and never fit in

I feel like as long as the common man can get it I'm fine. yeah it would make a lot of players bigger and better at whatever their sport is but the best players will still be the best ones in the end, size can't teach skill

as long as you ain't buying from this guy I'm ok with you

 

[Emwitus]

Let's be real here, that was a fluke.

His had so many flukes it's hard to count now man.

EDIT: Is this some kind of pre-emptive OK from heat age in regards to PED use? WTF

 

[giri]

there is nothing natural about the Orthokine procedure Kobe went through, but it's okay simply cause it's not on the banned list?



well that's something we can surely agree on then, brother!

And thats what i mean about unrelated. Kobe's knee surgery / blood thing has nothing to do with PED's. Nothing. It's brought in purely as a distraction.

If you want to argue the morality of his treatment, fine, but it has nothing to do with the conversation about PED's.

My stance on the surgery is that i'm ok with it for the most, until they start messing with the structure of blood and the cells in there. But otherwise, surgery, i'm ok with.

 

[KingGondo]

Worst offseason ever.

If we get Fish and Mike Miller I'll consider it a success.

 

[mhi]

Can't wait until Scott Brooks buries Reggie Jackson for Fisher again.

 

[Karakand]

My stance on PED's, especially in sports for no other purpose than performance gains over someone who isn't, is rather conservative and at odd's largely with my stance on "recreational" drugs.

I actually don't have the slightest problem with recreational drugs and would rather see them all legalised and controlled, i really correlate them with alcohol.

How do you feel about PEDs for people who aren't athletes? (For example, college students taking medications they haven't been prescribed to "get an edge" during cram time.)

 

[Psychological Intellect]

That Orthokine procedure is really cool. Just read about it on Wiki.

 

[Syphon Filter]

If we get Fish and Mike Miller I'll consider it a success.

It seems that Houston and Memphis are the strongest possibilities to get him.

 

[KingGondo]

Can't wait until Scott Brooks buries Reggie Jackson for Fisher again.

Doubt that'll happen. Lamb might not play much though, especially if we get Miller.

 

[WorldStar]

gonna be a great year for the Kings

 

[LegendofJoe]

Doing whatever you can to get yours is the fucking American motto in today's world. It's slowly turning the country into a shithole, but I see no reason why we should hold our athletes to higher standards. We sure as hell don't hold our leaders to higher standards when we have corrupted tards running rampant in all levels of public office. Professional sports are entertainment after all. If PEDs can help the better players come back from injury faster and keep stars around longer then I am all for it.

 

[ph33nix]

And thats what i mean about unrelated. Kobe's knee surgery / blood thing has nothing to do with PED's. Nothing. It's brought in purely as a distraction.

If you want to argue the morality of his treatment, fine, but it has nothing to do with the conversation about PED's.

My stance on the surgery is that i'm ok with it for the most, until they start messing with the structure of blood and the cells in there. But otherwise, surgery, i'm ok with.

Well then I just want to ask, what exactly would you consider "cheating"? Cause I feel like this whole discussion is basically just about where you and I draw the line on what that is

There are also lots of different kinds of PEDs too, I think

Doing whatever you can to get yours is the fucking American motto in today's world. It's slowly turning the country into a shithole, but I see no reason we should hold our athletes to higher standards. We sure as hell don't hold our leaders to higher standards when we have corrupted tards running rampant in all levels of public office.

Yeah pretty much we all know that scumbag at work who tried charming his way to promotions or that hot bitch who has no talent at anything besides looking good and uses that to her advantage

 

[thekad]

It's so weird that Oden is only 25. His stats in his last season, though it was only 21 games, are insane. Maybe he would have been the best center in the league right now if Portland didn't draft him.

If we get Fish and Mike Miller I'll consider it a success.

Worst offseason ever confirmed.

 

[Black Mamba]

Mike Miller chose Memphis.

They needed some shooting badly.

 

[Psychological Intellect]

congrats memphis


treat him kindly ;(

 

[Syphon Filter]

congrats memphis


treat him kindly ;(

Miller time! ; )

 

[diehard]

is that Ian Clark dude any good

 

[iamshadowlark]

Well then I just want to ask, what exactly would you consider "cheating"? Cause I feel like this whole discussion is basically just about where you and I draw the line on what that is

There are also lots of different kinds of PEDs too, I think



Yeah pretty much we all know that scumbag at work who tried charming his way to promotions or that hot bitch who has no talent at anything besides looking good and uses that to her advantage

I'm curious also, because no one seems to be able to articulate what line does a PED cross that makes it "immoral" to use in the the face of hundreds of thousands of synthetic supplements artificially boosting performance but not quite on a banned list.


He claims that line is so clear.

 

[jjasper]

Welcome back Mike.

 

[ph33nix]

I'm curious also, because no one seems to be able to articulate what line does a PED cross that makes it immoral to use in the the face of hundreds of thousands of synthetic supplements artificially boosting performance but not quite on a banned list.

See here's my thinking: if an athlete knowingly cheated and took something on the list, obviously they deserve whatever punishment comes their way.

But I just don't like how everybody suddenly wants to make that player to be some scrub because they cheated. Like...Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens? People suddenly think if those dudes weren't roided up or whatever that they'd be scrubs. Nah, they'd still be hall of famers.

Then again the Baseball hall of fame probably won't even let Mariano Rivera in the first time because of TRADITION so fuck that

let me correct myself, he won't get 100% votes on the first ballot cause there are some douches out there

 

[Pimpwerx]

is that Ian Clark dude any good

He can shoot. I call him Baby Jesus. He could turn out to be a steal. Also, I'm glad Miller went to Memphis. Can't hurt us there. PEACE.

 

[KingGondo]

Well damn. I thought he'd probably end up in Memphis but still disappointing.

 

[thekad]

Well damn. I thought he'd probably end up in Memphis but still disappointing.

at least you got fisher

 

[iamshadowlark]

See here's my thinking: if an athlete knowingly cheated and took something on the list, obviously they deserve whatever punishment comes their way.

But I just don't like how everybody suddenly wants to make that player to be some scrub because they cheated. Like...Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens? People suddenly think if those dudes weren't roided up or whatever that they'd be scrubs. Nah, they'd still be hall of famers.

Then again the Baseball hall of fame probably won't even let Mariano Rivera in the first time because of TRADITION so fuck that

let me correct myself, he won't get 100% votes on the first ballot cause there are some douches out there

I agree. Rules are rules, the NBA governs what is and isn't allowed in the league and those who don't follow should get punished accordingly. What I'm challenging is the rule itself. And all we get as retorts or justification, is some fake sense of morality that is somehow generated from these increasingly inconsequential rules.

 

[ph33nix]

Well damn. I thought he'd probably end up in Memphis but still disappointing.

he'll break your back in the WCF instead of the Finals this time!

 

[Psychological Intellect]

prelim schedules have Heat playing Bulls on Opening night(Oct 29) and Lakers(lol) on Christmas.

 

[thekad]

Rose gonna get that welcome back D