• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

2013 NBA Offseason |OT2| The Rich Get Richer, The Poor Get Andrea Bargnani

This is the Kings. They'll probably super-max him right before he goes to prison for aiding the Taliban.

Lol

Seriously though imagine us finally getting lucky and winning the lottery, Detroit's pick falling at 9, and Portland deciding to rebuild. We'd have the ability to draft Wiggins AND trade for a player like Cousins. We'd then tear up the league Thunder style and proceed to dominate the Knicks in the first round of the playoffs.

A man can dream...
 
ok well you insinuated that he was top 4 in your original post sooo that's kinda different.


oh thanks for the instruction teach!

want me to use his past 3 years combined or something? 44%, still not great. he averaged his highest % from 16-23 this past year but shot it nearly 2 times a game less than every other year he has played. he is still an inconsistent mid range shooter, and i'm not ready to throw that conclusion aside because he had his first good year shooting from 16-23 feet away.
You don't have a grasp of the stats, and your logic is flawed. I'm not gonna even try to argue stats with a guy who doesn't even know how to quantify them.
 
you threw yourself into this argument and won't even make a point.
I'm pretty sure my point is crystal clear, you don't understand stats. Basing any type of meaningful conclusion on a laughable datapoint proves that.

Do you even know what a good midrange shooter in this league shoots? There's a reason it's one of the worse shots in basketball.
 

Bread

Banned
I'm pretty sure my point is crystal clear, you don't understand stats. Basing any type of meaningful conclusion on a laughable datapoint proves that.

Do you even know what a good midrange shooter in this league shoots? There's a reason it's one of the worse shots in basketball.
I'm looking at the stats of the BEST shooters in the league. PI said Lebron was a top shooter in the league, and I can see many players who are hitting at higher percentages than him. I can see what a good midrange shooter hits, and Lebron does not hit that.

It's really sad that you're getting so defensive, so much that you have to attack me instead of actually showing me some stats that show I'm wrong.
 

KingGondo

Banned
I'm looking at the stats of the BEST shooters in the league. PI said Lebron was a top shooter in the league, and I can see many players who are hitting at higher percentages than him. I can see what a good midrange shooter hits, and Lebron does not hit that.

It's really sad that you're getting so defensive, so much that you have to attack me instead of actually showing me some stats that show I'm wrong.
The first rule of Best-GAF: never argue with Shadowdork.
 

Zeus Molecules

illegal immigrants are stealing our air
Speaking of hip-hop, I haven't heard a NY artist rep a Knicks player in a long while. I was listening to a NY mixtape the other day and heard basically "I go so hard like when Lebrons in town". I was like wtf, in no other city is that shit acceptable. For the lulz, I listened to Ortiz and Budden thinking their soft asses would rep NY, and they both talked about Lebron. Last person I heard talk positively about a player was Ross, and it was Melo.

Basically, NY artists are fake fans, no one likes the Knicks, and Lebron has surprisingly decent taste.

This is the best Knicks troll you got? Rap references?...... Action Bronson references the Knicks all the time (and the 90's magic team) and two players on the Knicks rap in their spare time.

Anyhow Idk if giving Mozgov 4.5 for 3 years for being a stiff is a good deal. That MLE type money
 
This is the best Knicks troll you got? Rap references?...... Action Bronson references the Knicks all the time (and the 90's magic team) and two players on the Knicks rap in their spare time.

Anyhow Idk if giving Mozgov 4.5 for 3 years for being a stiff is a good deal. That MLE type money

exarkun is not a troll.
 
I'm looking at the stats of the BEST shooters in the league. PI said Lebron was a top shooter in the league, and I can see many players who are hitting at higher percentages than him. I can see what a good midrange shooter hits, and Lebron does not hit that.

It's really sad that you're getting so defensive, so much that you have to attack me instead of actually showing me some stats that show I'm wrong.
idk i'f im still involved in this argument or not but.

Would you consider Kyrie,Kobe or KD good midrange shooters?
But first we have to agree on the definition of mid range?
 

exarkun

Member
It shows in the quality of his work

Ouch, hahaha. It was just something I was thinking about as I listened and studied. I liked capt's comment, but you would think they would talk about Pat or Ewing or Frazier or something. And lool at knickstape, shit is not real rap. Thats like saying JAXXXX really raps.

Lloyd reps em cause hes a warrior and he remember when the knicks were on fire in the 90s. And I really forgot about Action (good lookin out), but hes definitely in the minority. Houston was always hakeem, clyde, sometimes malone, but now everything is Harden and his strippers.
 

Bread

Banned
idk i'f im still involved in this argument or not but.

Would you consider Kyrie,Kobe or KD good midrange shooters?
But first we have to agree on the definition of mid range?
Sure you can be involved if you're going to talk to me instead of berate me.

I consider mid range 10-23 feet (to keep it simple for hoopdata stats, I don't really know if I would call a shot taken a step inside the 3pt line mid-range but eh).

The thing I have to point out before this goes any farther is that you're asking if they are good. I feel like the goalposts have been moved a little bit since this started off by me arguing against Lebron being one of the best shooters in the league, not whether he is or isn't a good shooter. He obviously is a good shooter and he has shown a lot of improvement, but I just find it silly to call him one of the best when there are players who get paid for their ability to shoot and do nothing else well.
 
One thing about Bron. His 16 to 23 footers are rarely assisted field goals. It's much harder to hit those in iso or off the dribble.

Bosh gets to set his feet and spot up on his attempts. I think he gets assisted fgs on 80% or something insane like that for his attempts.

Something else to consider.
 
So I did a report with the new NBA Stat site on mid-range shooting. The qualifier is at least 5 shots from mid-range so we get rid of most the other garbage data.

http://stats.nba.com/leaguePlayerSh...pageNo=2&rowsPerPage=50&DistanceRange=By Zone

Depending on how you look at it, either Chris Bosh or Dirk is the best mid-range shooter in the game. Lebron would be 14th on that qualified list, 3rd of the top 5 scorers in the league.

I don't get where thats inconsistent. Lebron is well above the league average and in the top 3 of the best scorers. I don't see where the hangup is...
 
Speaking of hip-hop, I haven't heard a NY artist rep a Knicks player in a long while. I was listening to a NY mixtape the other day and heard basically "I go so hard like when Lebrons in town". I was like wtf, in no other city is that shit acceptable. For the lulz, I listened to Ortiz and Budden thinking their soft asses would rep NY, and they both talked about Lebron. Last person I heard talk positively about a player was Ross, and it was Melo.

Basically, NY artists are fake fans, no one likes the Knicks, and Lebron has surprisingly decent taste.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhJAjRBFSvM
 
Sure you can be involved if you're going to talk to me instead of berate me.

I consider mid range 10-23 feet (to keep it simple for hoopdata stats, I don't really know if I would call a shot taken a step inside the 3pt line mid-range but eh).

The thing I have to point out before this goes any farther is that you're asking if they are good. I feel like the goalposts have been moved a little bit since this started off by me arguing against Lebron being one of the best shooters in the league, not whether he is or isn't a good shooter. He obviously is a good shooter and he has shown a lot of improvement, but I just find it silly to call him one of the best when there are players who get paid for their ability to shoot and do nothing else well.

yea. Maybe it was a bit silly to call him one of the best but I like this argument soooooo

I did a sort on Hoop data and out of all player sin the league, that hav e played 40+ games and play 20+ minutes a game.
Between 16 and 23 feet.
The top 20 players are(in order)
wiJl7jb.png


Out of that list I'm not sure if Aaron Brooks or Shaun Livingston should count as they only attempts one shot from that distance per game
If we include them then Lebron is apart of the group of guys that are the 7th best in the league at hitting that shot(Terry,LBJ,West,Bass all hit it at 46% with Bron and West having the highest # of attempts)

In that sort I did there are players above and below Bron that I guess you only want for their shooting skills. Like Korver(5th best) or Reddick(8th best). Korver only hits it one percentage point higher than Lebron despite attempting half the shots lbj does.
I think we can conclude that LeBron is apart of the elite players that can hit the 16-23 shot.

With the 10-15 shot. I tried to sort it on Hoopdata but there are so many guys that attempt that shot 0.0-0.4 per game and the site gives them a super high FG% so it was harder to discern but using this year's stats, even though he only attempted 1 per game,it's clear that LeBron was mediocre at that distance. though he usually hits it at an above average percentage. Not sure if this matters but, the 10-15 feet shot is attempted pretty low league wide and I'm not sure if it should be included in the midrange area. It seems to me the only type of shot attempted at that range are long hook shots by big guys or floaters by guards. Not too many guys really "shoot" from this area.

Regarding threes. Hoopdata only has the effective field goal stats and LeBron is apart of the group of players that hit threes the 8th best in the league and that list is full of shooting role players.
So if LeBron is 7th best at 16-23 feet and 8th(maybe 9th) best at hitting threes, I think he's a top shooter.


and like Hasphant's said, in all of these distances, Lebron is is far below league average in %As if you want to take that into consideration
 

Bread

Banned
yea. Maybe it was a bit silly to call him one of the best but I like this argument soooooo
that's the spirit
If we include them then Lebron is apart of the group of guys that are the 7th best in the league at hitting that shot(Terry,LBJ,West,Bass all hit it at 46% with Bron and West having the highest # of attempts)
ok i get what you are saying, but when you say 7th group of guys you are glossing over the amount of guys who are ahead of him. i would consider the top 5 shooters on there as the best in the game, the guys shooting a ridiculous 50+%. (Bosh, CP3, Nowitzki, a few others who are averaging a couple less shots).

This all really boils down to what we consider the top shooters, but fuck it this is fun and I'd rather do this than work.

With the 10-15 shot. I tried to sort it on Hoopdata but there are so many guys that attempt that shot 0.0-0.4 per game and the site gives them a super high FG% so it was harder to discern but using this year's stats, even though he only attempted 1 per game,it's clear that LeBron was mediocre at that distance. though he usually hits it at an above average percentage. Not sure if this matters but, the 10-15 feet shot is attempted pretty low league wide and I'm not sure if it should be included in the midrange area. It seems to me the only type of shot attempted at that range are long hook shots by big guys or floaters by guards. Not too many guys really "shoot" from this area.
fair enough, it is definitely a less attempted shot but I still feel it's important to consider when discussing something all encompassing like elite shooters.
Regarding threes. Hoopdata only has the effective field goal stats and LeBron is apart of the group of players that hit threes the 8th best in the league and that list is full of shooting role players.
So if LeBron is 7th best at 16-23 feet and 8th(maybe 9th) best at hitting threes, I think he's a top shooter.
you lost me here, how is he 8th or 9th best at hitting 3s? I see a good 10-15 players who are known for shooting and shoot it better than him.
and like Hasphant's said, in all of these distances, Lebron is is far below league average in %As if you want to take that into consideration
but at the same time, defenders are not up on him at all times like they are with other shooters because of his ridiculous ability to drive.
 
that's the spirit
ok i get what you are saying, but when you say 7th group of guys you are glossing over the amount of guys who are ahead of him. i would consider the top 5 shooters on there as the best in the game, the guys shooting a ridiculous 50+%. (Bosh, CP3, Nowitski, a few others who are averaging a couple less shots).

This all really boils down to what we consider the top shooters, but fuck it this is fun and I'd rather do this than work.

fair enough, it is definitely a less attempted shot but I still feel it's important to consider when discussing something all encompassing like elite shooters.
you lost me here, how is he 8th or 9th best at hitting 3s? I see a good 10-15 players who are known for shooting and shoot it better than him.
but at the same time, defenders are not defending him like they are with other shooters because of his ridiculous ability to drive.
this is fun.

On all my rankings I rounded .5 up and .4 down.
with the threes part.

1.Korver -69%
2.Curry-68%
3.Battier,Nash,Illyasova-66%
4.Prince,Dunleavy)-65%
5.Green,Calderon,Novak,Allen,Webster-64%
6.Blake,Sefalosha,Dirk,Wilson Chandler- 63%
7.KD,Foye,Hayward,Shumpert,Chalmers,Carter-62%
8.Bron,Mayo,Mathews,Robinson-61%
ok i get what you are saying, but when you say 7th group of guys you are glossing over the amount of guys who are ahead of him. i would consider the top 5 shooters on there as the best in the game, the guys shooting a ridiculous 50+%. (Bosh, CP3, Nowitski, a few others who are averaging a couple less shots).
Maybe I am glossing over the insane shooting of those guys but LeBron is ahead of guys like Steph Curry,Ryan Anderson,JJ Reddick, KD, Afflalo,Kevin Martin and others who are considered pretty darn good shooters, no?
 
Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 8m
Forward Elias Harris has agreed to a two year deal with Lakers, agent Brad Ames tells Y! Deal includes "significant" guarantee in 1st year.
35djol.jpg


This guy's wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elias_Harris

Elias Harris (born July 6, 1989) is a German/American basketball player. He recently completed his college career at Gonzaga University .He now plays for the Los Angeles Lakers. He is also a member of the German national basketball team. LULWUTWut
 
IWMTB19, is this guy any good?

Uhh, he had a lot of draft hype starting out in college, but he never got better. He's a major tweener who probably won't make it at either forward spot, but he seemed to move without the ball OK from what I saw. Maybe he'll find a way to make it as some physical, energy, bench guy.

I didn't pay attention to him that much during Gonzaga's games this year (since I was watching Olynyk and Stockton) and he never really did much to demand my attention when watching though which is probably a bad sign.
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
WojYahooNBA: Charlotte is finalizing a three-year, $18 million extension with restricted free agent guard Gerald Henderson, league sources tell Y!
.
 

Bowser

Member
$6m per for Henderson is a good deal. I didn't think he was worth the $8+m per people were throwing around

edit: The 3rd year is a player option, so if Henderson proves himself, he'll be back on the market in 2 years
 

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
If the Pacers can really move Granger for Scola then they're even more serious contenders this year.

edit: Stein saying Granger isn't going to be in the deal? Wonder how they'll make it work.
 
If the Pacers can really move Granger for Scola then they're even more serious contenders this year.

edit: Stein saying Granger isn't going to be in the deal? Wonder how they'll make it work.

Scola only make $4 million, so it'll probably be a filler contract (Mahinmi? Green?) and a first round pick.
 

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
Scola only make $4 million, so it'll probably be a filler contract (Mahinmi? Green?) and a first round pick.

Man if Larry Bird can get some team to take Mahinmi or Green off the books then he should executive of the year again. Thought for sure they'd be stuck with those terrible contracts for those scrubs.
 
Scola for Gerald Green and some picks looks probable I guess.

Scola's been overrated for a while, but he's not nearly as bad as Psycho T so this move will probably help them I guess.
 
Top Bottom