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[KingGondo]

It's a lot easier to find another Ibaka then to find someone like Harden. A LOT easier.

True, but look at the assets each brings to the table. With Ibaka, we're a top-3 defensive team (with room to improve), without Harden we still scored at an insane pace in the regular season. The reason that tailed off in the playoffs is because of YNB's injury and Brooks' refusal to implement an offensive system.

OKC fucked up big time. Ibaka and Perkins plus Brooks... Gimme Harden, KD and Westbrook then fill the bench through the draft and get some vets at the 4 and the 5.

Lot easier said than done. 4s and 5s (even over the hill ones) don't come cheap.

Lets play guess who PER 36 Playoff numbers

Player A: 13.9 PPG, 9RPG, 3 BPG,44% FG, 109 ORTG, 103 DRTG, .48 TS%

Player B: 15.2 PPG, 9 RPG, 3 BPG, 81% FG, 150 ORTG, 99 DRTG, .82 TS%

Hint:

Spoiler

player a makes 9x as much as player b

Hint 2:

Spoiler

Player A plays for the thunder Player B plays for miami

The above stats are all that need to be said about the OKC "controversy".

Westbrook didn't play, your argument is invalid. His injury absolutely killed us, especially since it freed Memphis (already a great defensive team) to completely focus on Ibaka and make KD beat them alone (which he only managed to do once).

 

[ph33nix]

lol remember when this forum had smileys?

we're in neo-neo-neo-gaf now

 

[DY_nasty]

People focus on Ibaka? LOL

 

[Future PhaZe]

Westbrook didn't play, your argument is invalid. His injury absolutely killed us, especially since it freed Memphis (already a great defensive team) to completely focus on Ibaka and make KD beat them alone (which he only managed to do once).

The point is less about what Ibaka couldn't do but what Anderson COULD do with a vet minesque salary.

Presti was on crack for offering Ibaka an extension before Harden. You lock up Harden, Westbrook, and Durant any day all day and can get decent production from ring chasers like Miami did.

 

[KingGondo]

The point is less about what Ibaka couldn't do but what Anderson COULD do with a vet minesque salary.

Presti was on crack for offering Ibaka an extension before Harden. You lock up Harden, Westbrook, and Durant any day all day and can get decent production from ring chasers like Miami did.

Getting Birdman was pure luck on Miami's part. And like I said, if we lock up $60+ million in three perimeter players how the hell are we gonna sign a decent rotation of bigs to help us (especially in the West against the likes of Houston, Memphis, San Antonio, and the Clips)?

I'd imagine what happened is that Harden's agent was insisting on the max all along, and Presti signed Ibaka to try and force Harden's hand. When Harden wouldn't budge, he called his bluff and traded him. I still think there's a good chance Ibaka's contract will look good in a couple of years.

 

[DY_nasty]

King Gondo is that guy on the Maury show who will never admit that ugly baby is his

 

[Psychological Intellect]

True, but look at the assets each brings to the table. ,With Ibaka, we're a top-3 defensive team (with room to improve), without Harden we still scored at an insane pace in the regular season. The reason that tailed off in the playoffs is because of YNB's injury and Brooks' refusal to implement an offensive system.


Lot easier said than done. 4s and 5s (even over the hill ones) don't come cheap.


Westbrook didn't play, your argument is invalid. His injury absolutely killed us, especially since it freed Memphis (already a great defensive team) to completely focus on Ibaka and make KD beat them alone (which he only managed to .

Lol

 

[KingGondo]

King Gondo is that guy on the Maury show who will never admit that ugly baby is his

If our baby is "ugly," how does yours look?

Anyone who watched the OKC-Memphis series knows that their strategy was to take away anyone who can score (including Ibaka and Martin) and force KD to beat them on his own. I'm not saying Hollins had a binder labeled "STOP IBAKA" for game planning, but they still made a point of limiting his touches.

I'm also not saying that the Harden trade was a good move or anything like that, but those who are acting like we've traded away any chance at a chip are delusional. The hyperbole is tiresome.

 

[Future PhaZe]

Gondos transformation is Anakin Skywalker'esque right now

It's tough to watch

 

[jjasper]

They allowed Ibaka uncontested mid range shots all series. The same shit he had taken all year. He just couldn't make anything. They didn't do anything special for Ibaka. It was all about covering Durant and Martin


Edit: Also Ibaka is like the 3rd best defender on the team. And days when refs allow Collison free range on fouling he is 4th.

 

[darkside31337]

Gondo is following the same path as Kevin Durant himself.

 

[Bread]

Gondo is following the same path as Kevin Durant himself.

nah gondo is going to stay in OKC

 

[Nori Chan]

play metro

Spoiler

lulz

Metro was my favorite map asshole

reminds me of kado and his shitty camping

 

[Gordon0Freeman]

http://Instagram.com/p/cZYASJCTAf/

http://Instagram.com/p/cZWq94CTOS/

http://Instagram.com/p/cZT7ltiTKQ/

Bron

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Gondo is following the same path as Kevin Durant himself.

Gondo is going to be a Laker in 3 years?

 

[KingGondo]

Gondo is going to be a Laker in 3 years?

Just like Bron is gonna be a Laker next year?

 

[obijkenobi]

I understood the Thunder's reasoning on trading Harden. Which is basically the same reasoning that Gondo was using. The really stupid part, IMO, is the fact they traded him for a one year rental of Kevin Martin. Before the season even started. That was stupid.

 

[Psychological Intellect]

http://Instagram.com/p/cZYASJCTAf/

http://Instagram.com/p/cZWq94CTOS/

http://Instagram.com/p/cZT7ltiTKQ/

Bron

Guess KD isn't working out with him this year.

 

[KingGondo]

I understood the Thunder's reasoning on trading Harden. Which is basically the same reasoning that Gondo was using. The really stupid part, IMO, is the fact they traded him for a one year rental of Kevin Martin. Before the season even started. That was stupid.

The Harden trade wasn't a good deal for OKC, but a lot is still unknown. If Lamb, Adams, Abrines and whoever we pick next year ends up panning out it doesn't look nearly as bad.

We still have plenty of assets and flexibility to make moves before the trade deadline this season too. And our cap situation actually looks pretty solid moving forward. We'll be players in free agency 2 years from now, and maybe earlier if we can find someone to take Perk.

 

[DY_nasty]

If our baby is "ugly," how does yours look?

Anyone who watched the OKC-Memphis series knows that their strategy was to take away anyone who can score (including Ibaka and Martin) and force KD to beat them on his own. I'm not saying Hollins had a binder labeled "STOP IBAKA" for game planning, but they still made a point of limiting his touches.

I'm also not saying that the Harden trade was a good move or anything like that, but those who are acting like we've traded away any chance at a chip are delusional. The hyperbole is tiresome.

....

You keep telling yourself that.

 

[diehard]

Nah I'm done, i've finally been broken. Not sure I'll post at gaf much either. Thanks for the kind words doe.

ok but just so you know i am blaming this on the Lakers sucking in the years to come and for no other reason.

 

[obijkenobi]

The Harden trade wasn't a good deal for OKC, but a lot is still unknown. If Lamb, Adams, Abrines and whoever we pick next year ends up panning out it doesn't look nearly as bad.

We still have plenty of assets and flexibility to make moves before the trade deadline this season too. And our cap situation actually looks pretty solid moving forward. We'll be players in free agency 2 years from now, and maybe earlier if we can find someone to take Perk.

That's a lot of what if's that have to happen to make the Harden trade decent for the Thunder. A team which has no history of signing big free agents (although it is a new team with lots of talent) and ownership that is known to be cheap (underselling a max player in Harden and even their first round pick this year).

 

[Forever]

Gondos transformation is Anakin Skywalker'esque right now

It's tough to watch

"From my point of view Ibaka makes us a top 3 defensive team!"

"Then you are lost!"

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

OKC traded their chance at being great, they're 'just' very good now. They lost an opportunity at a dynasty...could they possibly get back there? Sure, but it's not easy and they literally cheaped out on the chance. I'd say they've shown to lack the foresight or desire to pay the players required for a dynasty.

But they'll be good as long as they have KD, but I could easily see KD taking off on their cheapasses.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

The Thunder were as good as the Spurs and Heat last year and I think they should be the favorites this year, but they still got really bad value out of a top 10 player in the NBA even if he was a bad fit with Durant and Westbrook. Picks in the late lottery are rarely ever better than picks in the late first round and late firsts can be acquired for almost nothing.

 

[KingGondo]

That's a lot of what if's that have to happen to make the Harden trade decent for the Thunder. A team which has no history of signing big free agents (although it is a new team with lots of talent) and ownership that is known to be cheap (underselling a max player in Harden and even their first round pick this year).

We offered Harden enough to take us fairly deep into the tax starting this season if he had accepted. There's a difference between being cheap and being prudent, especially for a small market team that needs to avoid the repeater penalty to remain competitive. The ramping up of a max contract would have murdered us in seasons to come. And the rumor with Roberson is that he agreed to the 80% arrangement in exchange for being picked in the first round.

As for signing FAs, we haven't had to sign any of significance since arriving in OKC. YNB, Durant, Ibaka, Lamb, Collison, Jackson, Adams, Roberson, Jones, and Jerrett were drafted. Thabo, Lamb, and Perk were traded for. Our only FA signings in the last couple of years have been Thabeet, Orton, Liggins, and Fisher. The biggest ever contract we gave out to a free agent was to Nenad Krstic.

 

[DY_nasty]

"From my point of view Ibaka makes us a top 3 defensive team!"

"Then you are lost!"

am dead

 

[Future PhaZe]

The Thunder were as good as the Spurs and Heat last year and I think they should be the favorites this year, but they still got really bad value out of a top 10 player in the NBA even if he was a bad fit with Durant and Westbrook. Picks in the late lottery are rarely ever better than picks in the late first round and late firsts can be acquired for almost nothing.

In terms of what? Being regular season try hards has never been worth anything in this league.

I feel like the Westbrook injury serves a convenient blinder over the fact that OKC was going to get bodied with or without Westbrook.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

It's kind of funny how good the Grizzlies have been with how meh to bad of a scorer Randolph has been in the last two years. Elite offensive rebounder and a decent defender in that time still, but his scoring efficiency has dipped a lot.

In terms of what? Being regular season try hards has never been worth anything in this league.

I feel like the Westbrook injury serves a convenient blinder over the fact that OKC was going to get bodied with or without Westbrook.

I don't see that. They had gotten to the point where they were a very good defensive team, Durant was on a historic level as a scorer, and Westbrook was an excellent #2 guy. Their offense was simple and had limited help, but it didn't matter since Durant was scoring 28 PPG on 65% TS% and had another explosive scorer next to him. Their offense became too limited without Westbrook, but I think it would he would have taken enough defensive attention off Durant to allow him to continue to carry that offense in the playoffs.

 

[diehard]

In terms of what? Being regular season try hards has never been worth anything in this league.

So you would rather watch a lottery team year after year than a team that competes well in the playoffs?

lucky you i guess

 

[CB3]

"From my point of view Ibaka makes us a top 3 defensive team!"

"Then you are lost!"

This is great

 

[Future PhaZe]

I don't see that. They had gotten to the point where they were a very good defensive team, Durant was on a historic level as a scorer, and Westbrook was an excellent #2 guy. Their offense was simple and had limited help, but it didn't matter since Durant was scoring 28 PPG on 65% TS% and had another explosive scorer next to him. Their offense became too limited without Westbrook, but I think it would he would have taken enough defensive attention off Durant to allow him to continue to carry that offense in the playoffs.

The argument has never been that they aren't good. It's always been about them being able to push through the WCF and chip, and there's nothing I saw that made me feel that the Hardenless version of the team was capable of that.

So you would rather watch a lottery team year after year than a team that competes well in the playoffs?

lucky you i guess

Not sure what that has to do with my post at all. I'm just saying that dominating the regular season like the Mavs of the past, Cavs, and last years OKC team has never neccesarily been a reasonable indicator of great playoff success.

The LeBron cavs should have taught everybody that by now.

 

[KingGondo]

"From my point of view Ibaka makes us a top 3 defensive team!"

"Then you are lost!"

This is what I'm referring to (from the Lowe article):

Oklahoma City ranked third in points allowed per 100 possessions last season, behind only Memphis and Indiana, and just 2.6 points behind the Pacers' league-best mark, per NBA.com.

And I never said Ibaka alone gives us a top 3 defense, but it's indisputable that our defense would be worse without him.

 

[diehard]

Not sure what that has to do with my post at all. I'm just saying that dominating the regular season like the Mavs of the past, Cavs, and last years OKC team has never neccesarily been a reasonable indicator of great playoff success.

The LeBron cavs should have taught everybody that by now.

I got the impression that you were saying that if you don't chip, you might as well have been the worst team in the NBA.

 

[obijkenobi]

We offered Harden enough to take us fairly deep into the tax starting this season if he had accepted. There's a difference between being cheap and being prudent, especially for a small market team that needs to avoid the repeater penalty to remain competitive. The ramping up of a max contract would have murdered us in seasons to come. And the rumor with Roberson is that he agreed to the 80% arrangement in exchange for being picked in the first round.

As for signing FAs, we haven't had to sign any of significance since arriving in OKC. YNB, Durant, Ibaka, Lamb, Collison, Jackson, Adams, Roberson, Jones, and Jerrett were drafted. Thabo, Lamb, and Perk were traded for. Our only FA signings in the last couple of years have been Thabeet, Orton, Liggins, and Fisher. The biggest ever contract we gave out to a free agent was to Nenad Krstic.

Your cap flexibility is going to lead you to getting free agent scraps like the Mav's plan Z of Dejuan Blair. (He actually just announced he signed with the Mavs for a year deal on Twitter)

 

[Psychological Intellect]

That was Harden's stat line during the WCF vs the Spurs.who the fuck is gonna replace that? Ibaka ? Lamb? Tony Allen's headband?

I don't see OKC beating anyone with a good offense in the west deep in the playoffs like the Spurs or maybe the Clippers(idk) without an explosive playmaker/scorer like Harden.

 

[KingGondo]

Your cap flexibility is going to lead you to getting free agent scraps like the Mav's plan Z of Dejuan Blair. (He actually just announced he signed with the Mavs for a year deal on Twitter)

We should have some cap room next year (maybe even a lot if we manage to move Perkins) and we'll actually have a ton of cap room in the summer of '15. Durant, YNB and Ibaka will still be under contract.

Somehow I think we'll be able to sign someone better than Dejuan Blair or Monta Ellis with those pieces still in place. We're not talking about Dirk and literally nobody else on our roster.

 

[LuchaShaq]

It's a lot easier to find another Ibaka then to find someone like Harden. A LOT easier.

Yup, if no ibaka but Harden/YNB/Durant didn't work? It's not like The bucks would say no to Harden for Larry Sanders + picks, or the Hornets wouldn't have traded nerlen's for Harden. etc etc.


Honestly the problem ISN'T that they traded Harden. The problem is that they traded harden for one season of Kevin Martin and fuck else.

 

[obijkenobi]

We should have some cap room next year (maybe even a lot if we manage to move Perkins) and we'll actually have a ton of cap room in the summer of '15. Durant, YNB and Ibaka will still be under contract.

Somehow I think we'll be able to sign someone better than Dejuan Blair or Monta Ellis with those pieces still in place. We're not talking about Dirk and literally nobody else on our roster.

The Mavs have an owner willing to spend money though. There are always 3-4 teams with a lot of money to spend every off season. Will OkC be one of those teams that actually spend money in an off season? We'll see, but I'm skepitcal.

Yup, if no ibaka but Harden/YNB/Durant didn't work? It's not like The bucks would say no to Harden for Larry Sanders + picks, or the Hornets wouldn't have traded nerlen's for Harden. etc etc.


Honestly the problem ISN'T that they traded Harden. The problem is that they traded harden for one season of Kevin Martin and fuck else.

Pretty much exactly what I was saying a few posts above. Larry Sanders on the Thunder would be nice. Instead, the Thunder gave the Rockets the ammuniation they needed to get two max level players. Thanks OkC :/

 

[Byakuya769]

Guess KD isn't working out with him this year.

Didn't they just do that for a week each summer? They may still do it.

 

[KingGondo]

The Mavs have an owner willing to spend money though. There are always 3-4 teams with a lot of money to spend every off season. Will OkC be one of those teams that actually spend money in an off season? We'll see, but I'm skepitcal./

Did you read my post? I was talking about the fact that we'll likely have $8-10 million in cap room in the summer of 2015 to sign a FA, so we're not even talking about the luxury tax yet. Not to mention we'll be angling to make sure KD re-signs.

I'm confident our ownership will spend money when it's needed (as evidenced by their offer to Harden) but they're also not gonna throw money around just to spend it.

 

[obijkenobi]

Did you read my post? I was talking about the fact that we'll likely have $8-10 million in cap room in the summer of 2015 to sign a FA, so we're not even talking about the luxury tax yet. Not to mention we'll be angling to make sure KD re-signs.

I'm confident our ownership will spend money when it's needed (as evidenced by their offer to Harden) but they're also not gonna throw money around just to spend it.

I read what you said. Why do you still think the offer to Harden is an example of "spending money when needed?" Harden deserved the max and was offered much less than that. I get the "this will make it harder for us to compete salary wise" but they undersold a top 15 YOUNG NBA player....so....what makes you think they will offer market rates on free agents?

 

[KingGondo]

I read what you said. Why do you still think the offer to Harden is an example of "spending money when needed?" Harden deserved the max and was offered much less than that. I get the "this will make it harder for us to compete salary wise" but they undersold a top 15 YOUNG NBA player....so....what makes you think they will offer market rates on free agents?

They offered Harden what they could reasonably afford which (and this is the important part) still would have put them into the luxury tax. They're not completely averse to the tax, but they're not going to enter it for anything other than a great reason (like re-signing a guy like Harden).

 

[Future PhaZe]

My mind is just thrown right now

Gondo throwing around mangekyou sharingan genjutsu up in here

this shit is Joakim Mogren is CG levels of crazy

 

[thekad]

Who cares? Durant is gone in 2016 anyway.

 

[obijkenobi]

Who cares? Durant is gone in 2016 anyway.

Thunder will offer him 14million so they don't go into the luxury tax.

 

[Future PhaZe]

the whole "we're gonna have cap space soon" thing is just mindblowing to me

one of the craziest things ive read on gaf

 

[AgentChris]

OKC will not be able to sign a player of Harden's caliber.

 

[reilo]

Oh Gondo. It's okay. The first step is always denial.

 

[thekad]

Harden only makes $5 million/yr more than Perkins the next two seasons. Lamb and Adams make over $4 million a year combined. So basically either the Thunder couldn't manage to pay a luxury tax bill of ~$1 million or they just didn't want to amnesty Perkins.

Keep in mind that the Thunder actually took on millions in payroll last year in that trade since Harden was still on his rookie contract :lol