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[Sober]

I saw a few similar articles floating around lately, feeling like they sort of confirm my suspicions with my general unease while watching Netflix's original shows.

Bloodline shows what’s wrong with most of Netflix’s original series -- Vox (Bloodline spoilers in the article)

The last four episodes of the first season of Bloodline are among the best things Netflix has ever done. They're searing, dark stories of a family pushed to its utter limit, and even a fairly lame twist to close out the season can't get in the way of their cumulative power.

The problem is that the road to those episodes is a complete mess that points to all of the issues with the Netflix broadcasting model. The show's creators told Quartz Netflix encouraged them to think of the season as one big story, and it shows. The first nine episodes of this season are torturously slow, plagued with irritating storytelling decisions, and never as clever as the creators seem to think. The last four episodes redeem the meandering start and middle, but only just.

And in its own way, Bloodline points to all of the things Netflix will need to figure out moving forward. Right now, the streaming giant has a tendency to create shows where the storytelling mostly suggests and hints at something big coming up, without anything actually happening or any character arcs actually advancing forward.

It's a good way to keep binge-watchers consuming episode after episode after episode, but it's a lousy way to tell a story. Bloodline stretches that tactic almost to the breaking point. There has to be another way.

I haven't watched Bloodline yet, but I plan to, mostly to see if it is as bad as I've been hearing about the pacing. I personally don't see the merits (yet) of a show having episodes if they aren't going to do some meaningful storytelling (or apparently storytelling at all from what it implies)

Here’s the recipe Netflix uses to make binge-worthy TV -- Quartz

While some network series like Damages and Breaking Bad have proven well-suited for Netflix binge-viewing, they were conceived to be viewed on a traditional TV schedule: one episode per week. There is an art to creating a series for Netflix’s binge-loving subscribers, who frequently watch several episodes of a show in one sitting. Todd Kessler, with help from Daniel Zelman and Glenn Kessler, shared with Quartz how they tailored Bloodline specifically for Netflix’s audiences:

Instead of focusing on individual episodes, think of the whole season as a layered, three-act story

Because there is less pressure for each episode of a Netflix series to stand on its own, “it allowed us to say, we’re going to approach the first three episodes as the first act of our story,” Todd Kessler told Quartz. “Episodes 4, 5, 6 and 7 is the second act of our story, and then 8 through 13 is the third act. So we’re feeling more like, we’re taking advantage of this storytelling medium, meaning you can watch multiple episodes, you can watch the whole first act at once, which is very different than a network or a cable show, unless you watch it after it’s already aired. And so for us, that desire is, we can go deeper, and hopefully create a stronger bond between the audience and the characters.”

That shift from traditional, self-contained episodic storytelling “is a huge thing for us,” says Todd Kessler. “As opposed to feeling like, oh, in the first three episodes we have to get it all done. It’s like, no, we can take our time, and approach it as you would in a feature.”

There's more in the article about what some of the producers consider "pluses" for the Netflix model but the above I quoted kinda doesn't sit right with me.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

That it's "iconic" does not mean there is widespread, mainstream interest in it, 13+ years after the show ended.

It might draw a large audience or it might not, but what else does Fox have that could work as an "event series" that has the potential to be anywhere as big/buzzier? Legit question. Out of the shows that Fox has aired in the past, the ones that people bring up the most are Firefly (a niche franchise. Serenity made about $30 million less than the most recent X-Files film if you wanted to compare the films for some reason) and Prison Break (does anyone really even care about Prison Break though?). House was one of Fox's biggest series, but what would an "event series" of that even look like?

Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel (20th Century Fox TV), maybe? Could Fox even do that?

 

[RatskyWatsky]

Bloodline shows what’s wrong with most of Netflix’s original series -- Vox (Bloodline spoilers in the article)

Right now, the streaming giant has a tendency to create shows where the storytelling mostly suggests and hints at something big coming up, without anything actually happening or any character arcs actually advancing forward.

I don't think this is a thing. It doesn't apply to House of Cards, Orange is the New Black, Hemlock Grove, or BoJack. I can't speak to Marco Polo since I still haven't gotten around to watching past episode two (most of the scripts were already completed before Netflix picked it up though, iirc) though.

the above I quoted kinda doesn't sit right with me.

Why? They should have the freedom to tell whatever kind of story they want. In a previous article they even mentioned that "there were times when Netflix executives asked [the writers] if “Bloodline” should move faster" so it's not like Netflix is mandating glacial pacing for their shows or whatever.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Despite the fact that I resent 20+ episode orders and endless season renewals and think shows work better if they're more compact, I actually think slow, deliberate pacing is almost always a net positive for show quality. Not on shows like The Killing or the back half of Lost where it's pretty clearly people just trying to fill out their episode order by having nothing happen (i.e. contrived pacing), but for most shows where it's just about letting people live their lives and flesh out their characterization and letting the audience soak up the scenery, that's a good thing. What are we in a rush for?

If we want things to move fast shouldn't we just be watching Vines of shitty superhero shows and then buying crossover T-Shirts with Walter White as a werewolf?

I've only watched the first hour and a half of Bloodline, but to me it doesn't seem aimless or meandering. It just seems deliberate.

 

[Penguin]

I'm not sure if this article is complaining or not that... but it seems to be... someone help the white actors?

http://deadline.com/2015/03/tv-pilots-ethnic-casting-trend-backlash-1201386511/

 

[RatskyWatsky]

I'm not sure if this article is complaining or not that... but it seems to be... someone help the white actors?

http://deadline.com/2015/03/tv-pilots-ethnic-casting-trend-backlash-1201386511/

I don't think it's saying that, exactly.

But, as is the case with any sea change, the pendulum might have swung a bit too far in the opposite direction. Instead of opening the field for actors of any race to compete for any role in a color-blind manner, there has been a significant number of parts designated as ethnic this year, making them off-limits for Caucasian actors, some agents signal. Many pilot characters this year were listed as open to all ethnicities, but when reps would call to inquire about an actor submission, they frequently have been told that only non-Caucasian actors would be considered. “Basically 50% of the roles in a pilot have to be ethnic, and the mandate goes all the way down to guest parts,” one talent representative said.

ABC’s medical drama pilot The Advocate was based on the story of former CAA agent Byrdie Lifson-Pompan and Dr. Valerie Ulene, who launched a healthcare consulting company. While the real-life inspiration for the two central character are both Caucasian, the show cast them with one white actress, Kim Raver, and one black, Joy Bryant.

A lot of what is happening right now is long overdue. The TV and film superhero ranks have been overly white for too long, workplace shows should be diverse to reflect workplace in real America, and ethnic actors should get a chance to play more than the proverbial best friend or boss.

But replacing one set of rigid rules with another by imposing a quota of ethnic talent on each show might not be the answer. Empire, Black-ish and Fresh Off The Boat have been breakouts because they represent worlds and points of view that were not on TV — a soapy hip-hop dynasty, an upper-class black family struggling with racial identity and an immigrant Asian family trying to fit in.

Trying to duplicate those series’ success by mirroring the ethnicity of their leads is a dubious proposition — if that was the key, 2010’s Undercovers, a slick drama with two appealing black leads, Boris Kodjoe and Gugu Mbatha-Raw, should’ve been a hit.

 

[Sober]

That last line you quoted Ratsky ......

Man if only Undercovers waited a few years...

 

[Stumpokapow]

Damn just watched the Empire finale

#hakeemnooo
#canthandlethis
#gamechanger
#praisethelord

 

[Dan]

 

[ivysaur12]

I'm not sure if this article is complaining or not that... but it seems to be... someone help the white actors?

http://deadline.com/2015/03/tv-pilots-ethnic-casting-trend-backlash-1201386511/

So, awhile ago, there was this show called Deception. Deception starred Megan Goode as a police officer that had to go undercover at the family her mother used to for to find out who killed this woman. Deception was a cheap Revenge rip-off, but there's a potentially interesting story here that gives it a solid POV: Where do class, race, and socioeconomic status converge? Megan Goode's character and the dead daughter of this family were apparently best friends. How does these these three social constructs shape the ways in which Megan Goode's character views this family? Her mother? Is there a tacit Upstairs/Downstairs-type story that plays out through every interaction she has with the family? How does the family view her? What does her blackness mean to this family? Anything? Everything?

At the TCA panel, someone asked the creator -- Liz Heldens -- about this. To summarize, Heldens says that race doesn't matter on the show. That they cast colorblind.

Deception was never going to fail or succeed if it addressed the concept of race at some point in its story. But Deception wasn't telling a story. It wasn't telling anything. It was a shitty soap. Evidence of Heldens's privilege was the fact that it seemed like she never thought about Megan Goode's character through a racial, socioeconomic, or class lens. She missed out on her best opportunity to tell a good story! Probably the most interesting story she could tell. I want to watch that show.

I'm regurgitating this story because there will some show with a minority lead next season that will not do well. And some stupid exec will go, why, we cast a minority lead! Why aren't we getting Empire numbers?! And it's not to say, well, you need to engage with race if you're going to have a POC lead. But at least you'd be telling a story, something with pathos, something moving. As of now, your shitty show isn't saying anything. Just like Deception.

The Deadline article gets to this, sure, and it makes a good point about POV. And casting a black actor in a show does not mean it'll be a success. Cristela is not a success. American Crime is not a success, though it does have a clear POV (I think there's a very simple reason it's not successful). Same with the myriad of other shows. I don't think that How to Get Away With Murder is necessarily telling a story about race, but it's telling a very clear story.

Everything else in the article is pure garbage. Fuck them.

EDIT: Like, fuck you, Nellie Andreeva, for trying to say that there aren't enough experienced POC actors being cast. Off the top of my head, almost every major role in every pilot that's been filled by a person of color has been someone who has been a series regular before, or is an accomplished movie star/comedian.

The fucking kid from the fucking Dan Savage is a newcomer. WHERE WERE THE TALENTED WHITE PEOPLE FOR THAT ROLE?!

 

[RatskyWatsky]

What are we in a rush for?

to get from one "Oh shit" moment to the next obv

 

[TheSeks]

The fucking kid from the fucking Dan Savage is a newcomer. WHERE WERE THE TALENTED WHITE PEOPLE FOR THAT ROLE?!

What?

 

[ivysaur12]

What?

*Dan Savage show

 

[Rhaknar]

it's just the tip

Spoiler

of the tattoo needle

 

[TheOddOne]

- THR: Shonda Rhimes Blasts "Ignorant" Article Questioning "Ethnic Castings".

Grey's Anatomy, Scandal and How to Get Away With Murder executive producer Shonda Rhimes was among those who blasted the controversial Deadline column "Pilots 2015: The Year Of Ethnic Castings – About Time Or Too Much Of Good Thing?" and called the story "ignorant."

"1st Reaction:: HELL NO. Lemme take off my earrings, somebody hold my purse! 2nd Reaction: Article is so ignorant I can't even be bothered," Rhimes tweeted.

"Hey look the grossest possible reaction to a breakthrough TV year," critic Emily Nussbaum of The New Yorker wrote.

"Just astounding that something so tone deaf could be published in 2015 by a supposedly credible news source," The New York Times' Dave Itzkoff tweeted with a link to the Deadline story.

"So hard out there for white actors these days! I'm sobbing!" BuzzFeed's Kate Aurthur added, singling out a particular passage that questioned if the "pendulum may have swung a bit too far in the opposite direction" followed by a blind quote from an unnamed talent representative complaining that half the roles in pilots "have to be ethnic."

"TOO MUCH OF A GOOD THING? I mean...I just...AND HOW MANY TIMES CAN WE SAY ETHNIC IN ONE GODDAMNED ARTICLE, NELLIE?" Grey's Anatomy star Jerrika Hinton wrote, later adding a few edits to the column's headline: "HEADLINE: White People No Longer Automatically Considered Default Casting Choice, Makes Me Nervous" and "HEADLINE: TV Protagonists To Now Reflect Actual Demographics Of Audiences, But Whew We Still Got Movies Y'all."

What troubles me is the decision-makers in Hollywood who will read that @Deadline tripe about black actors in television and say, "Exactly."" The New Republic's Jamil Smith added.

"Initiate Phase 4 of #OperationWhitelash. The unresearched, anonymously sourced "Ethnic Epidemic" expose." Community's Dan Harmon said.

 

[berzeli]

Soon a bunch of people have to go LOOKING for a new job since their HBO show got cancelled. Get it? Do you? Because the show is called the same thing as the word. Oh the hilarity...

Well technically it got "renewed" for a special as with Hello Ladies, but people are calling it a cancellation and it kind of is. So I guess it counts.

 

[G0523]

Soon a bunch of people have to go LOOKING for a new job since their HBO show got cancelled. Get it? Do you? Because the show is called the same thing as the word. Oh the hilarity...

What a poor and tasteless joke.

Spoiler

Damn, you beat me to it!

 

[Raxus]

HBO Looking. Not found.

 

[Penguin]

Let's see what resident Stump comes up with

 

[ivysaur12]

And nothing of value was lost.

 

[ezekial45]

Yeah, I was kinda hoping they'd give it another chance (especially without having TD as a lead in this year), but I guess not.

A T.V. movie sounds good, though.

 

[Stumpokapow]

there's three main dudes in Looking, right?

 

[G0523]

there's three main dudes in Looking, right?

Yeah.

 

[Sober]

That was quick.

 

[TheAbsolution]

Someone wanna explain the new title to me?

 

[Stumpokapow]

Someone wanna explain the new title to me?

sometimes when an otter loves a bear very much, he posts a hookup ad on craigslist

 

[TheAbsolution]

sometimes when an otter loves a bear very much, he posts a hookup ad on craigslist

Ah. It's a Craigslist ad title.
Points for Creativity!

 

[RatskyWatsky]

OMG @ the thread title!

 

[WarrenMax007]

What new shows will premiere on premium cable this year? Did i miss anything?

HBO.

- Ballers
- The Brink
- Westworld

Showtime.

-Happyish

Starz.

- Ash vs Evil Dead
- Blunt Talk
- Flesh & Bone
- The Girlfriend Experience?

Cinemax.

- Quarry?

 

[RatskyWatsky]

What new shows will premiere on premium cable this year? Did i miss anything?

There isn't a full list yet. They typically only announce new shows a couple weeks before they're to premiere, so we have no idea what exactly is coming this summer, fall, winter, etc.

 

[WarrenMax007]

There isn't a full list yet. They typically only announce new shows a couple weeks before they're to premiere, so we have no idea what exactly is coming this summer, fall, winter, etc.

I know there isn't a full list yet. But most of the time there are news about when production will start and show will premiere at the end of casting news on Deadline and other sites.

 

[Rekwest]

What new shows will premiere on premium cable this year? Did i miss anything?

HBO.

- Ballers
- The Brink
- Westworld

Showtime.

-Happyish

Starz.

- Ash vs Evil Dead
- Blunt Talk
- Flesh & Bone
- The Girlfriend Experience?

Cinemax.

- Quarry?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=964273

 

[RatskyWatsky]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=964273

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=952777

 

[Stumpokapow]

Schitt's Creek is so funny. Wonderful cast chemistry, great strange characters, a totally unusual and super-Canadian vibe. Not laugh out loud funny, just more warm.

Half-hour comedy. Riches-to-rags story, wealthy family loses everything and ends up being forced to move to a podunk country bumpkin town that they bought as a joke when they were rich. Eugene Levy is the lead, his IRL son is his son in the show (and also one of the writers). Levy and his son co-created the show. Also the son's character rocks a sort of ambiguously gay vibe the entire series and it's never really spelled out if he is or isn't so it's actually a really cool portrayal. Chris Elliott is also in the cast.

Where to watch:
CBC in Canada
POP (TV Guide Network) in the US. Yes, I know, you've never heard of that channel, but you probably have it.
Already renewed for season 2 by POP but not yet by CBC, which is going through some budget troubles. I'm not sure who is financing it but I suspect it will actually have a second season given POP's renewal.

Seriously people should be giving this a shot.

 

[Rekwest]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=952777

Thanks!

 

[ivysaur12]

the CW:

Monday:

8 - The Originals
9 - Jane the Virgin

Tuesdays:

8 - The Flash
9 - CORDON

Wednesdays:

8 - Arrow
9 - The 100/iZombie

Thursdays:

8 - The Vampire Diaries
9 - CHEERLEADER DEATH SQUAD

Fridays:

8 - Supernatural
9 - Reign

Both The 100 and iZombie could be brought back with 13-16 episode orders and share a timeslot, again. I don't see Mondays changing, especially since Jane has the best potential to break out versus anything else on the network.

TALES FROM THE CRYPT then for midseason order. Same with BERLANTIVERSE spinoff.

 

[Kevin]

the CW:

Monday:

8 - The Originals
9 - Jane the Virgin

Tuesdays:

8 - The Flash
9 - CORDON

Wednesdays:

8 - Arrow
9 - The 100/iZombie

Thursdays:

8 - The Vampire Diaries
9 - CHEERLEADER DEATH SQUAD

Fridays:

8 - Supernatural
9 - Reign

Both The 100 and iZombie could be brought back with 13-16 episode orders and share a timeslot, again. I don't see Mondays changing, especially since Jane has the best potential to break out versus anything else on the network.

TALES FROM THE CRYPT then for midseason order. Same with BERLANTIVERSE spinoff.

Tales from the Crypt? Are they bringing that back or do you mean Tales from the Darkside which the CW ordered a pilot for?

 

[TheSeks]

Someone wanna explain the new title to me?

(M)en (M)en (M)en 4or (N)etwork: Looking for daddy (older man), (N)o (S)trings (A)ttached do NOT contact me with...

I didn't even bother with Looking. Was it even worth checking out? It seemed like it was going to be a hamfisted gay romance TV show like Mass Effect and other such media does.

 

[ivysaur12]

Tales from the Crypt? Are they bringing that back or do you mean Tales from the Darkside which the CW ordered a pilot for?

That one.

 

[LilWayneSuckz]

I'm honestly okay with Looking being cancelled. The second season was terribly dull and I will never get over the fact that the main character had a perfectly good relationship and then screwed it up, and then had a perfectly good thing and then screwed it up again....They needed a more interesting plot then "we're focusing on a late twenties aged person who likes to play head games"

 

[Patryn]

the CW:

Monday:

8 - The Originals
9 - Jane the Virgin

Tuesdays:

8 - The Flash
9 - CORDON

Wednesdays:

8 - Arrow
9 - The 100/iZombie

Thursdays:

8 - The Vampire Diaries
9 - CHEERLEADER DEATH SQUAD

Fridays:

8 - Supernatural
9 - Reign

Both The 100 and iZombie could be brought back with 13-16 episode orders and share a timeslot, again. I don't see Mondays changing, especially since Jane has the best potential to break out versus anything else on the network.

TALES FROM THE CRYPT then for midseason order. Same with BERLANTIVERSE spinoff.

You don't think they'll want the DC Superhero Hodgepodge Hour to be a fall show?

 

[Slayven]

Somebody pitched Cheerleader Death Squad with a straight face? Would be a fun Asylum movie, but a series?

 

[RatskyWatsky]

Schitt's Creek is so funny. Wonderful cast chemistry, great strange characters, a totally unusual and super-Canadian vibe. Not laugh out loud funny, just more warm.

Half-hour comedy. Riches-to-rags story, wealthy family loses everything and ends up being forced to move to a podunk country bumpkin town that they bought as a joke when they were rich. Eugene Levy is the lead, his IRL son is his son in the show (and also one of the writers). Levy and his son co-created the show. Also the son's character rocks a sort of ambiguously gay vibe the entire series and it's never really spelled out if he is or isn't so it's actually a really cool portrayal. Chris Elliott is also in the cast.

Where to watch:
CBC in Canada
POP (TV Guide Network) in the US. Yes, I know, you've never heard of that channel, but you probably have it.
Already renewed for season 2 by POP but not yet by CBC, which is going through some budget troubles. I'm not sure who is financing it but I suspect it will actually have a second season given POP's renewal.

Seriously people should be giving this a shot.

Okay, I'll give it a shot! Thanks for the recommendation bruv

I didn't even bother with Looking. Was it even worth checking out?

It was a decent little show. Give it a try.

 

[ivysaur12]

You don't think they'll want the DC Superhero Hodgepodge Hour to be a fall show?

Won't even be close to ready.

 

[Joni]

the CW:

Seems like a logical schedule. I'll have a lot of stuff to watch.

 

[FoneBone]

You don't think they'll want the DC Superhero Hodgepodge Hour to be a fall show?

It hasn't been developed as part of the fall pilot cycle.

 

[Norwegian Rudo]

Schitt's Creek is so funny. Wonderful cast chemistry, great strange characters, a totally unusual and super-Canadian vibe. Not laugh out loud funny, just more warm.

Half-hour comedy. Riches-to-rags story, wealthy family loses everything and ends up being forced to move to a podunk country bumpkin town that they bought as a joke when they were rich. Eugene Levy is the lead, his IRL son is his son in the show (and also one of the writers). Levy and his son co-created the show. Also the son's character rocks a sort of ambiguously gay vibe the entire series and it's never really spelled out if he is or isn't so it's actually a really cool portrayal. Chris Elliott is also in the cast.

Where to watch:
CBC in Canada
POP (TV Guide Network) in the US. Yes, I know, you've never heard of that channel, but you probably have it.
Already renewed for season 2 by POP but not yet by CBC, which is going through some budget troubles. I'm not sure who is financing it but I suspect it will actually have a second season given POP's renewal.

Seriously people should be giving this a shot.

CBC renewed it before the first episode aired.

If anybody is going to watch it, make sure to watch episode 3. I was kind of amused by the first 2 episodes, but that one had me laughing like crazy.

 

[TheOddOne]

 

[Cade]

I find that interesting

 

[dead souls]

Seems like a logical schedule. I'll have a lot of stuff to watch.

Yep. The CW is easily the broadcast network with the most shows I watch. Like 95% of my broadcast television viewing is either on CW or Fox. ABC/NBC/CBS may as well not exist to me outside of a couple shows.