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2014-15 TV Cancellations: Under the Dome canned, what will CBS do with CG cows next?

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T

Tragicomedy

Member
ivysaur12 said:
Because that's not how ratings work. No one can see when someone leave the room during a commercial, but you can track what commercials are watched by Nielsen families. It's called the C3 rating and its how ad rates are set.

If you want to learn more, there's an entire section on TVByTheNumbers dedicated to this.
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I understand the basic concept and the +3 numbers. What I'm saying is...those people aren't watching the ads. If you have a DVR and you are watching TV ads, you are doing it wrong.
 
F

Father_Brain

Banned
So, in short, to what extent do L+3 and L+7 ratings actually matter given the complete inability of networks to control DVR commercial viewership? I know CBS is trying to push projected L+7s, but I have no idea how they expect advertisers to swallow that. (And if they don't expect that, what's the point?)
 
S

sparky2112

Member
anaron said:
VOIbdHn.gif
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This is like the Big Gulp version of 'Warriors...come out and plaaaaaaay...' 70s kids, amiright?!?!
 
T

Tragicomedy

Member
ivysaur12 said:
Clearly someone is watching ads or every show would have a 0.0 C3 rating.
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Ah, perhaps I misunderstand what the C3 rating is then. I'll look it up on the site you mentioned.

DarkFlow said:
I like how you're arguing with a guy who works in television.
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I like how you don't know what the word "arguing" means. Cute.

beat said:
Not everyone watches TV the same way. Go figure.
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You mean that people who DVR a show don't fast forward through the commercials? That really is unfathomable to me, I'll admit.
 
T

Tragicomedy

Member
DarkFlow said:
So telling him no one is watching ads is not arguing now? Cute
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Perhaps I'm not familiar enough with this C3 rating system. My point was if someone DVRs a show, they almost certainly are not watching the ads later. If you take that as me arguing with someone (when I clearly prefaced my original post by saying I was was ignorant on the topic), and feel the need to play the appeal to authority card, that's your business. I won't stop you from butting in with irrelevant replies.
 
D

DarkFlow

Banned
Tragicomedy said:
Perhaps I'm not familiar enough with this C3 rating system. My point was if someone DVRs a show, they almost certainly are not watching the ads later. If you take that as me arguing with someone (when I clearly prefaced my original post by saying I was was ignorant on the topic), and feel the need to play the appeal to authority card, that's your business. I won't stop you from butting in with irrelevant replies.
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Okay.
 
I

ivysaur12

Banned
Father_Brain said:
So, in short, to what extent do L+3 and L+7 ratings actually matter given the complete inability of networks to control DVR commercial viewership? I know CBS is trying to push projected L+7s, but I have no idea how they expect advertisers to swallow that. (And if they don't expect that, what's the point?)
Click to expand...

L+3s matter more now. I thiiiink most ad sales are done with a combo of L+3s and C3s, with more of a push for L+3s and C7s.

We were told very explicitly that they only care about our L+3s, which is great because our time shifting is insane.
 
T

Tragicomedy

Member
Father_Brain said:
Not that many people. That's why C3 ratings are generally much closer to L+SD than to L+3 numbers.
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Yeah, I just read the FAQ that Ivy mentioned. Apparently, C3 is basically identical to the live numbers, which makes perfect sense. It means that people watching the show live see the ads, and people watching them on DVR skip them completely. Sanity prevails.

I still doubt most live Nielsen viewers are even watching the ads instead of doing the 18 minute delay business or just leaving the room, but I guess that's the best approximation people have.
 
I

ivysaur12

Banned
Tragicomedy said:
Yeah, I just read the FAQ that Ivy mentioned. Apparently, C3 is basically identical to the live numbers, which makes perfect sense. It means that people watching the show live see the ads, and people watching them on DVR skip them completely. Sanity prevails.

I still doubt most live Nielsen viewers are even watching the ads instead of doing the 18 minute delay business or just leaving the room, but I guess that's the best approximation people have.
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Most C3 ratings are higher. People still watch ads with DVRs. Remember, the SD in L+SD includes same day DVR viewing. Your "live" number is always the lowest.

I honestly am confused as to what your point is?
 
V

Vinci

Danish
Is Intruders dead yet? I have the most bizarre fascination with it, but it's seriously the most frustrating thing I've ever watched. Damn Darin Morgan for having his name attached to it.
 
F

Father_Brain

Banned
ivysaur12 said:
L+3s matter more now. I thiiiink most ad sales are done with a combo of L+3s and C3s, with more of a push for L+3s and C7s.

We were told very explicitly that they only care about our L+3s, which is great because our time shifting is insane.
Click to expand...

So how does that work? How and why do advertisers justify paying beyond what the L+SD/C3s suggest to "reach" viewers who are most likely just skipping the commercials?
 
D

DarkFlow

Banned
Ivy, since you're over at SyFy, you heard anything on how Ascension is shaping up. I'm hoping it's good since I like the premise.
 
I

ivysaur12

Banned
Father_Brain said:
So how does that work? How and why do advertisers justify paying beyond what the L+SD/C3s suggest to "reach" viewers who are most likely just skipping the commercials?
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You're more likely to remember what happened in a commercial if you fast forward it than if you walk out of the room. Also, product placement.

DarkFlow said:
Ivy, since you're over at SyFy, you heard anything on how Ascension is shaping up. I'm hoping it's good since I like the premise.
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I don't work at Syfy.
 
F

Father_Brain

Banned
ivysaur12 said:
You're more likely to remember what happened in a commercial if you fast forward it than if you walk out of the room. Also, product placement.
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Hmmm... guess that makes sense? Still, I'd think even the chance of getting viewers to sit through a full 30-second ad would weigh ad rates heavily toward the L+SD/C3 end, but I'm not the one who works in the industry so I'll defer to you on that.
 
I

ivysaur12

Banned
Father_Brain said:
Hmmm... guess that makes sense? Still, I'd think even the chance of getting viewers to sit through a full 30-second ad would weigh ad rates heavily toward the L+SD/C3 end, but I'm not the one who works in the industry so I'll defer to you on that.
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C3 ratings and (soon C7 ratings) are the most important. But there's a value to L+3s. They're not useless.

VOD is so important because you can't skip the ads. They're going to be pushing VOD over DVR
 
C

cory64

Member
ivysaur12 said:
C3 ratings and (soon C7 ratings) are the most important. But there's a value to L+3s. They're not useless.

VOD is so important because you can't skip the ads. They're going to be pushing VOD over DVR
Click to expand...
Will they start having instant VOD after airing? It's 2014.
 
D

dead souls

Member
TripOpt55 said:
I think The Flash puts me up to five CW shows I'm watching. And iZombie will hopefully make it six whenever that comes on.
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Same here. Five shows plus looking forward to iZombie. The CW went and became one of my favorite networks over the past few years. Too bad I'll be dead to them in about a month since I'll be 35.
 
R

Rhaknar

The Steam equivalent of the drunk friend who keeps offering to pay your tab all night.
how bad is Forever tanking? lastest episode was slightly better, still not a good show tho

dead souls said:
Same here. Five shows plus looking forward to iZombie. The CW went and became one of my favorite networks over the past few years. Too bad I'll be dead to them in about a month since I'll be 35.
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but...but... I'M 35 :(
 
F

Fuzzy

I would bang a hot farmer!
cory64 said:
Will they start having instant VOD after airing? It's 2014.
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I wish because I can't tell you how many times my mom asks me when a show will be on onDemand when she misses it. I always just tell her to check on the weekend because it's inconsistent when it's actually put up.
 
N

Norwegian Rudo

Member
Father_Brain said:
So how does that work? How and why do advertisers justify paying beyond what the L+SD/C3s suggest to "reach" viewers who are most likely just skipping the commercials?
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Do you seriously believe that they don't research the hell out of what they're paying for? Latest research I've seen mentioned says that 50-60% of DVR viewers also watch the commercials. There is however a major push to shift viewers from DVR to VOD.
 
J

Joni

Member
Father_Brain said:
So how does that work? How and why do advertisers justify paying beyond what the L+SD/C3s suggest to "reach" viewers who are most likely just skipping the commercials?
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They have studies on how many people on average actually skip the commercials when they're DVR-ing. A 5.0 in live without DVR probably is worth more than a 5.0 on L+3.
 
J

jamesinclair

Banned
Cab somehow explain why Fox and now abc restrict their Hulu shows to eight days after airing?

You can't skip those ads, why are they not valuable?
 
C

Cornballer

Member
ivysaur12 said:
VOD is so important because you can't skip the ads. They're going to be pushing VOD over DVR
Click to expand...
Yup, this came up in The Bridge thread when they released the first few episodes of the season a week early on VOD as part of a test.
Cornballer said:
Random tidbit that I ran across this afternoon: the early release VOD episodes of The Bridge this season were part of a Comcast test as they try to shift viewership away from DVRs and towards VOD.
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Here's a snippet from the article, but there's a fair bit more discussion via the link.
A year ago at the Television Critics Association press tour, CBS chief research officer David Poltrack said essentially the same thing: "We are aggressively marketing and building our alternatives for people so [DVR] will become less and less of the total audience as time goes on," he told reporters.

Matt Strauss, the general manager of video services for Comcast, says the networks began really embracing VOD after Nielsen started breaking out VOD ratings in 2013 (all broadcast and most cable networks are now using that information).

But VOD services actually launched more than a decade ago. In the beginning, movies, music and kids programming dominated the service. Then "about three years ago, TV catch-up viewing on demand really started to spike," Strauss says. "It has grown over one hundred percent since then."

The most popular shows on VOD are an eclectic mix, with reality (Love & Hip Hop Atlanta) and dramas (The Strain) leading the pack this summer. According to Strauss, the 100 most-watched shows on TV are all available on VOD within six to eight hours after they originally air, which means VOD viewing is included along with DVR viewing in multiple-day ratings roundups (Live plus 3, Live plus 7, and C3, the ratings a commercial gets in the three days after it airs). "That was a big milestone, making sure Nielsen measured our platforms," Strauss says.

But the main reason the networks would rather viewers use VOD: Unlike with conventional time-shifting, the ability to fast-forward through commercials is usually disabled.

As a result, according to Strauss, C3 ratings for commercial viewing (which is what advertisers care about) are up 20 percent in Comcast households. "It's a better business," Earley says. Strauss agrees: "If the networks can transition a customer to catch up on demand versus DVR, they can monetize that. They are exposed to more ads."
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D

dead souls

Member
jamesinclair said:
Cab somehow explain why Fox and now abc restrict their Hulu shows to eight days after airing?

You can't skip those ads, why are they not valuable?
Click to expand...

They're nowhere near as valuable as traditional broadcast ads, so they want people to watch traditionally, or on VOD as Cornballer points out directly above me.
 
C

Cornballer

Member
- Full set of Wednesday numbers from TVbtN:
On CBS, Survivor earned a 2.5, up a tenth from last week's 2.4 adults 18-49 rating. Criminal Minds scored a 2.3, down four tenths from last week's 2.7 adults 18-49 rating. Stalker garnered a 1.7, down three tenths from last week's 2.0 adults 18-49 rating.

On ABC, The Middle matched last week's 2.0 adults 18-49 rating. The Goldbergs notched a 2.2, down a tenth from last week's 2.3 adults 18-49 rating. Modern Family garnered a 3.4, down three tenths from last week's 3.7 adults 18-49 rating. black-ish scored a 2.8, up two tenths from last week's 2.6 adults 18-49 rating. Nashville earned a 1.5, down a tenth from last week's 1.6 adults 18-49 rating.

On NBC, The Mysteries of Laura garnered a 1.3, down two tenths from last week’s 1.5 adults 18-49 rating. Law & Order: SVU earned a 1.7, down a tenth from last week's 1.8 adults 18-49 rating. Chicago P.D. matched last week's 1.5 adults 18-49 rating.

On FOX, Hell's Kitchen matched last week's 1.4 adults 18-49 rating. Red Band Society earned a 0.9, down two tenths from last week’s 1.1 adults 18-49 rating.

On The CW, the season premiere of Arrow earned a 1.0 adults 18-49 rating from the 0.9 last season's premiere
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