2014 Israel-Gaza Conflict [UN: 1,525+ Palestinian dead, mostly civilian; 66 Israeli]

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Cloudy said:
Actually if the citizens in countries whose tax dollars help pay for all the weaponry being used to kill so many civilians made their voices heard, things would change.

I wish Obama would grow some balls and tell Netanyahu to stop this shit or lose all aid but you know why we won't? Folks would be running over themselves to attack him and Democrats would be leading the charge.
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Actually, you make a fair point. The western world funding this genocidal war machine definitely has a part to play,

Problem with the UK and US is that key political figures are strongly pro Israel. Not to mention the powerful lobby groups. As citizens of these countries, we need to apply significant pressure to make these fuckers fold.
 
ST2K said:
So what's Israel's explanation?
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It's right there in the story.

Some had received text messages in previous days warning them to flee, but residents said they felt it was futile, that they would face the same dangers in other parts of Gaza.

Overnight, Hamas' military wing also fired rockets from Shaja'ia toward Israel. The militant group also turned down an invitation by Egypt to talk about a cease-fire initiative the country had proposed.
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DeathyBoy said:
While on the one hand I agree, and note that America/England/Russia are run by blithering idiots...

At any given time, we're two steps from another full blown World War. And given America/England's pathetic track record at trying to solve wars between other nations, the last thing I want is them getting involved. Because when they do either they get their asses kicked, or they 'save the day' and then leave things even worse than they were originally.

I mean... the problem is there's no deterrant except for war. And even then that just breeds resentment that builds until the cycle starts again.

It seems the sad truth is that the only way to stop things like this is for countries to stop having figurative dick-measuring contests and bullying each other. But they have to decide that. And currently no one wants to because then they won't be the toughest guy in the playground anymore.
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England isn't a state - I think you mean the United Kingdom. Nor is the Middle East close to precipitating a world war; none of the major powers involved involved care sufficiently about Israel or Palestine to commit to something of that scale. There certainly are effective deterrents. Israel's economy is incredibly far from self-sufficient - they're hugely dependent on imports and exports from Western countries. Punitive economic sanctions in the line of those used on apartheid South Africa would be an extremely effective and rapid deterrent. Palestine is not involved in a "figurative dick-measuring contest". They are being occupied and murdered, and it is both insulting and demeaning to make such an analogy.
 
Crab said:
England isn't a state - I think you mean the United Kingdom. Nor is the Middle East close to precipitating a world war; none of the major powers involved involved care sufficiently about Israel or Palestine to commit to something of that scale. There certainly are effective deterrents. Israel's economy is incredibly far from self-sufficient - they're hugely dependent on imports and exports from Western countries. Punitive economic sanctions in the line of those used on apartheid South Africa would be an extremely effective and rapid deterrent. Palestine is not involved in a "figurative dick-measuring contest". They are being occupied and murdered, and it is both insulting and demeaning to make such an analogy.
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Thank you.
 
Actually, you make a fair point. The western world funding this genocidal war machine definitely has a part to play,

Problem with the UK and US is that key political figures are strongly pro Israel. Not to mention the powerful lobby groups. As citizens of these countries, we need to apply significant pressure to make these fuckers fold.
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I don't see why we can't be pro Israel AND against the slaughter of innocents. Fund their iron dome and nothing else. Threaten to cut off aid for that when they do heavy-handed stuff like this.

I want to blame the people in power but when the Israel lobby is able to put more pressure on them because the voting public is so indifferent to this issue, what do you expect them to do?
 
dude said:
Despicable. Indefensible.
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The war is certainly defensible. I don't think that even "beacon of democracy" countries would have any choice but to go to war when facing constant bombardment with rockets even if it was done from their own territory (say Lapland bombarding Sweden).

The way the war is led is, however, hardly defensible - if not borderline idiotic from int. image / potential for a future peace deal pov.
 
Yagharek said:
Please tell me there are at least some vocal opponents of the war amongst Israelis.
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There have been anti-war protests going on daily in many major cities in Israel.
They're not huge and they have no real impact (people tend to close ranks in such situations) but they're there.
Many of them devolved into street fights with ultra-right racists groups who support the war.

p.s.
Provided without context -

uouowis.jpg


EiMT5xg.jpg
 
Baki said:
Problem with the UK and US is that key political figures are strongly pro Israel. Not to mention the powerful lobby groups. As citizens of these countries, we need to apply significant pressure to make these fuckers fold.
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I don't know why people implicate the United Kingdom in this. Israel is perceived overwhelmingly negatively in the United Kingdom - see here. Both Conservative and Labour administrations have taken steps against Israel - see the recent arms embargo, the various resolutions in the United Nations that the United Kingdom has either voted against Israel or abstained when the United States has applied pressure, and the fact that the Foreign Office's official policy goal is still the restoration of the 1967 borders. Even in recent statements, William Hague, the (now former) Foreign Secretary has not been in any way warm towards Netanyahu. The United Kingdom is not politically in favour of Israel's actions. Instead, their lack of action can be attributed to two main reasons: firstly, the United Kingdom is very strongly influenced by the United States' foreign policy objectives, even if they disagree with them, because they perceive the United States as an essential ally. Secondly, the Israel-Palestine issue is just not that politically salient, so even if the political scene is not in favour of Israel, nobody cares enough to do anything.

If you want something to be done about Palestine, you have to do something about the pro-Israel political lobby in the United States. This is an issue relating to the United States and Israel alone; other nations have little to no impact.
 
If Israel knew civilians were being used as human shields, they should have done the right thing and just backed off and not attacked that city!

Yagharek said:
Please tell me there are at least some vocal opponents of the war amongst Israelis.
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Well, I have friends in Israel and I like to think that they are not in support of this war. I think many Israeli's are tired of it as well. I just wished peace could be a possibility.
 
Man, I can't even imagine what it'd be like to get fliers and texts telling you to get the hell out of your hometown cause it's going to be bombed to shit. It's got to be terrifying.
 
ST2K said:
Man, I can't even imagine what it'd be like to get fliers and texts telling you to get the hell out of your hometown cause it's going to be bombed to shit. It's got to be terrifying.
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And many of these people have nowhere to go. That's what's really tragic about it
 
curlyfriski said:
You can check @IDFSpokesman on twitter. It's pretty despicable.
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man, i was the following the conversation and some guy just posted a picture of a dude covered in blood and the word "PRESS" is written on his clothes and he's dead

his lifeless stare...my god
 
ST2K said:
Man, I can't even imagine what it'd be like to get fliers and texts telling you to get the hell out of your hometown cause it's going to be bombed to shit. It's got to be terrifying.
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How would they have sent texts? Not that I'd expect them to trust them even if they did.
 
jakomocha said:
If Israel knew civilians were being used as human shields, they should have done the right thing and just backed off and not attacked that city!


Well, I have friends in Israel and I like to think that they are not in support of this war. I think many Israeli's are tired of it as well. I just wished peace could be a possibility.
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That would be the wise thing to do but Hamas fired rockets from the city.
 
Skyzard said:
How would they have sent texts? Not that I'd expect them to trust them even if they did.
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CNN Article:

The Israeli army has warned residents to leave.
It has sent text messages to many Palestinians and dropped leaflets over residential areas, telling them to flee.
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I imagine they have some sort of mass alert system? I'm not sure.
 
Do people not understand what civilian causalities are? Happens in every conflict. And the blood is on Hamas's hands as they hide weapon caches and command centers in city homes.

The moral hypocrisy of the left when it comes to civilian causalities is sickening as well. When the Syrian government murders thousands of it's own people, they don't care. When ISIS murders Christians and Jews, they don't care. When the Palestinian people are murdered in their thousands outside of Israel and Gaza, they don't care. When the Russians murder Ukrainians, they don't care. All non internationalist, as promoted by the terrorist sympathizing organization Stop the War Coalition.

But when Israel causes civilian causalities after defend itself from the thousands of rockets fired over the past two weeks? They are murderers and committing apartheid. Stop the War Coalition called for action against Israel. That just shows how ridiculous the left are. All over Twitter and Facebook.

Israel has unfortunately caused civilian causalities. But this David vs. Goliath, the Jews become the Nazis etc. drama played up by the media needs to stop. Israel wants the terrorists dead, Hamas wants every Jewish civilian dead.
 
Crab said:
I don't know why people implicate the United Kingdom in this. Israel is perceived overwhelmingly negatively in the United Kingdom - see here.
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Sorry, could you just quickly point me to the relevant page in that link please? I'm interested but it's 44 pages long, and I don't want to spend all Sunday reading that report!
 
titusandronicus said:
Do people not understand what civilian causalities are? Happens in every conflict. And the blood is on Hamas's hands as they hide weapon caches and command centers in city homes.

The moral hypocrisy of the left when it comes to civilian causalities is sickening as well. When the Syrian government murders thousands of it's own people, they don't care. When ISIS murders Christians and Jews, they don't care. When the Palestinian people are murdered in their thousands outside of Israel and Gaza, they don't care. When the Russians murder Ukrainians, they don't care. All non internationalist, as promoted by the terrorist sympathizing organization Stop the War Coalition.

But when Israel causes civilian causalities after defend itself from the thousands of rockets fired over the past two weeks? They are murderers and committing apartheid. Stop the War Coalition called for action against Israel. That just shows how ridiculous the left are. All over Twitter and Facebook.

Israel has unfortunately caused civilian causalities. But this David vs. Goliath, the Jews become the Nazis etc. drama played up by the media needs to stop. Israel wants the terrorists dead, Hamas wants every Jewish civilian dead.
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Do ANY of these groups that you have mentioned have any sort of affiliation or alliance with any Western country? What would protesting against ISIS or Syria achieve when there is no real channel of contact between the Western countries and those groups?

If Syria was an ally of the West or if the ISIS was an ally of the West, you'd see similar protests. Israel IS an ally of the West.

The fact that you've placed Israel in the same company as ISIS and Syria is hilarious.

And civilian casualties of SUCH RIDICULOUS PROPORTIONS are not commonplace in conflicts where one side is supposed to be a well-equipped, democratic force fighting against an ill-prepared militia. Do you see these levels of civilian deaths in Afghanistan or Iraq?
 
When the Syrian government murders thousands of it's own people, they don't care. When ISIS murders Christians and Jews, they don't care. When the Palestinian people are murdered in their thousands outside of Israel and Gaza, they don't care. When the Russians murder Ukrainians, they don't care. All non internationalist, as promoted by the terrorist sympathizing organization Stop the War Coalition.

But when Israel causes civilian causalities after defend itself from the thousands of rockets fired over the past two weeks? They are murderers and committing apartheid. Stop the War Coalition called for action against Israel. That just shows how ridiculous the left are. All over Twitter and Facebook.
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Do American tax dollars go to aid for those other countries/groups? Are those other countries/groups major US allies?
 
Crab said:
I don't know why people implicate the United Kingdom in this. Israel is perceived overwhelmingly negatively in the United Kingdom - see here. Both Conservative and Labour administrations have taken steps against Israel - see the recent arms embargo, the various resolutions in the United Nations that the United Kingdom has either voted against Israel or abstained when the United States has applied pressure, and the fact that the Foreign Office's official policy goal is still the restoration of the 1967 borders. Even in recent statements, William Hague, the (now former) Foreign Secretary has not been in any way warm towards Netanyahu. The United Kingdom is not politically in favour of Israel's actions. Instead, their lack of action can be attributed to two main reasons: firstly, the United Kingdom is very strongly influenced by the United States' foreign policy objectives, even if they disagree with them, because they perceive the United States as an essential ally. Secondly, the Israel-Palestine issue is just not that politically salient, so even if the political scene is not in favour of Israel, nobody cares enough to do anything.

If you want something to be done about Palestine, you have to do something about the pro-Israel political lobby in the United States. This is an issue relating to the United States and Israel alone; other nations have little to no impact.
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British intelligence Agencys would never support action against Israel, nor would the CIA. This is due to how effective an ally Israel and Mossad is when it comes to stopping terrorist attacks on Western soil.

India would circumvent any action as well, as they buy billions in weapons and technology from the Israelis.
 
Terra Firma said:
Do ANY of these groups that you have mentioned have any sort of affiliation or alliance with any Western country? What would protesting against ISIS or Syria achieve when there is no real channel of contact between the Western countries and those groups?

If Syria was an ally of the West or if the ISIS was an ally of the West, you'd see similar protests. Israel IS an ally of the West.

The fact that you've placed Israel in the same company as ISIS and Syria is hilarious.

And civilian casualties of SUCH RIDICULOUS PROPORTIONS are not commonplace in conflicts where one side is supposed to be a well-equipped, democratic force fighting against an ill-prepared militia. Do you see these levels of civilian deaths in Afghanistan or Iraq?
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I'm not sure of the civilian casualty statistics there, but the reason they are so high here because of how densely populated the area is, and more importantly, Hamas's tactics of using civilian homes as bases. And telling Palestinians to become martyrs. The dead are glorified and paraded around the street.
 
"We don't want to take your lives. Only your land and your belongings. So get the fuck out. This is our country now. If not you're clearly with Hamas and deserve to be killed."
Parmenide said:
Are we really allowing this to happen?
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Obviously. In this very moment we allow it.
Well, at least in france and england there is visivible resistance. Hope that the statesmen could move there asses a bit. Israel has a right to exist and defend itself, but this shit is going too far too long.
 
Cloudy said:
Do American tax dollars go to aid for those other countries/groups? Are those other countries/groups major US allies?
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pretty sure we send aid to Syria (well, groups within), Iraq and Ukraine. Major allies? Not major allies, but you could say we are aligned with all 3.
 
Sounds like war, what is Hamas's play here, hope its just a show of force then back to business and go covert? Blood is spilling over at this point...conflict will see its way though to the end
 
titusandronicus said:
I'm not sure of the civilian casualty statistics there, but the reason they are so high here because of how densely populated the area is, and more importantly, Hamas's tactics of using civilian homes as bases. And telling Palestinians to become martyrs. The dead are glorified and paraded around the street.
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So what you're saying is, the Palestinians actually want to die? That's a new one. I'm sure the parents are happy and proud that their kids playing on the beach chose to become martyrs.
 
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