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2015 NBA PLAYOFFS |OT| One man's Smith.. Is another man's treasure.

W

wmlk

Member
Bam Bam Baklava said:
Smh, let's look at postseason stats up to this point. Green is averaging 10.6 rebounds, 5.4 assists, 1.8 steals, 1.2 blocks, and 14.4 points.

Meanwhile TT is averaging 9.8 rebounds (yeah), 0.5 assists, 1.3 blocks, 0.1 steals, and 8.9 points.

So uhh glad you guys are not GMs.
Click to expand...

As I said, look at the last 2 series (Houston and Memphis).

Their stats are close, but I value offensive rebounds much more than just the rebound total. Just looking at the game you can see the impact Thompson has in granting the Cavs new possessions.
 
B

Bam Bam Baklava

Member
Tron#1 said:
ok so as a GM i would look for a guy that continues to get BETTER as my team advances. Also thompson has not be starting this postseason like green has. CAn you look up the stats fro thompson this series that if i am not mistaken he actually started most of????
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Thompson is averaging 34.6 minutes and Green is averaging 37.7 all playoffs so that excuse doesn't really fly. In these conference finals both teams have played 4 games. Thompson is averaging 11 rebounds a game and Green is averaging 12 so even with identical minutes played in a series (both 39 minutes), Green is better in rebounding alone and way better in assists and points.
 
B

Bam Bam Baklava

Member
Tron#1 said:
just looked up the points and rebounds and if my numbers are correct he averaged 12 points and 11 rebounds for this series. I will take a double double from my big guy that is not even close to be a scoring option on my team any series.
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Green averaged 12 and 15 while getting more of everything else. Dude, you're totally wrong.
 
B

Bam Bam Baklava

Member
Oh ffs, now we're getting into impact on the game? Any more intangible metrics you guys wanna drudge up real quick? Is his locker room chemistry stat 99?

TheGreatMightyPoo said:
He's shorter and fatter than Thompson, the Warriors win a lot of the matchups but not this one.
Click to expand...

The guy plays against Dwight Howard, Davis, Randolph, Gasol and TT is the one guy who is kryptonite now?
 
W

wmlk

Member
Bam Bam Baklava said:
Oh ffs, now we're getting into impact on the game? Any more intangible metrics you guys wanna drudge up real quick? Is his locker room chemistry stat 99?
Click to expand...

Dude, the very first thing I said and you quoted had me saying "impact on the game" over the past 2 series. I don't know why you're acting like this is a whole new thing now.
 
B

Bam Bam Baklava

Member
Stats mean nothing? His work ethic being top notch means nothing? It's just that you guys watched TT a couple times and he has won your "eye test". Well, Green passed my eye test because the guy works his ass off every single game, just like TT.
 
F

Fjordson

Member
Draymond is a weakness for the Warriors...?
Not sure if I'm reading these posts right.

Come on brehs...enough with the breathless, knee jerk analysis.
 
M

msdstc

Incredibly Naive
Bam Bam Baklava said:
Smh, let's look at postseason stats up to this point. Green is averaging 10.6 rebounds, 5.4 assists, 1.8 steals, 1.2 blocks, and 14.4 points.

Meanwhile TT is averaging 9.8 rebounds (yeah), 0.5 assists, 1.3 blocks, 0.1 steals, and 8.9 points.

So uhh glad you guys are not GMs. You can make the argument that Green is doing this against stiffer competition as well considering he went up against guys like AD, Randolph, Gasol.
Click to expand...

yeah you're not trying hard enough. TT is playing about 4 minutes less per game, so adjusted for 36 minutes it comes out to.

TT- 9.3 ppg .575% 10.2 RPG 1.4 BPG .1 ST .6 TOV
DG-13.7ppg .451% 10.2 RPG 1.2 BPG 1.7 ST 2.9 TOV

These stats don't include multiple things- that Tristan Thompson was playing off the bench for the first few games in a much diminished role with a different unit and his 16 Point 11 Rebound night on 6-8 shooting.

So the stats are close all things considered. TT never gets steals, DG has turned the ball over a lot. Personally DG all day for me, but I'm not a fan of either of their game. Both will be overpaid.
 
B

Bam Bam Baklava

Member
People are saying they would take TT over Green. Might as well just say you think he's better. The stats disagree though, Green wins that matchup even if he does get out rebounded because he offers you more elsewhere.
 
F

Fjordson

Member
Bam Bam Baklava said:
People are saying they would take TT over Green. Might as well just say you think he's better. The stats disagree though, Green wins that matchup even if he does get out rebounded because he offers you more elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Green was the best front court defender in the league this year and can hit the three....but different strokes for different folks I guess...
 
T

TheGreatMightyPoo

Banned
Bam Bam Baklava said:
People are saying they would take TT over Green. Might as well just say you think he's better. The stats disagree though, Green wins that matchup even if he does get out rebounded because he offers you more elsewhere.
Click to expand...

Second chance points kill teams and I expect the Cavaliers to get a lot of them.

They'll still lose.

Green is more than a role player, I just think the role Thompson has is vital to the Cavaliers.
 
R

random25

Member
To be fair to Green, he is a 3 guy playing the 4 position because of necessity, and has done pretty well. TT is a natural PF that I think Green won't attempt to play inside, just like the Memphis guys, but would rather stretch the floor with his outside shooting or try to switch to a smaller guy, like what he's doing with Houston right now.

And to be fair to TT, he's just a "pick your spots" guy that rarely gets touches on offense. Of course stats-wise, especially points and assists, Green would always get the upper hand as he is a third option on GS, and gets more touches on offense.

So it's not really an easy comparison per se. They just do different things that impact their respective teams.
 
B

Bam Bam Baklava

Member
TheGreatMightyPoo said:
Second chance points kill teams and I expect the Cavaliers to get a lot of them.

They'll still lose.

Green is more than a role player, I just think the role Thompson has is vital to the Cavaliers.
Click to expand...

Doesn't mean he wins the matchup though. For Barkley to pick the Cavs because of Mozgov and TT is pretty much the most idiotic thing he can possibly say considering guys like Green are no fucking joke.
 
F

Fjordson

Member
TheGreatMightyPoo said:
Second chance points kill teams and I expect the Cavaliers to get a lot of them.

Green is more than a role player, I just think the role Thompson has is vital to the Cavaliers.
Click to expand...
That's fair. Thompson has been good and will be tough to keep off the boards.


Edit: assuming GS moves on. Call me crazy, but I am a little nervous. Warriors' playoff life flashed before me when Curry took that fall.

Edit 2: man, I shouldn't have said GAF analysis is mostly brain dead lol, it's not. Long day at work brehs.
 
B

Bam Bam Baklava

Member
For everything you get, you give something up. TT has been given the green light to chase down offensive rebounds but that's one less person getting back to stop a possible fast break by the Warriors.
 
T

TTG

Member
I'm not one of those, "Give Draymond the max!" guys, but he should have been defensive player of the year. You could take Kawhai over him individually, but he's as much the reason as anyone GS have been killing people playing small ball this year.

Do you guys not pay attention to half the game, or is the East so bad they've got you being all delusional about Thompson?
 
T

TheGreatMightyPoo

Banned
Nothing too interesting but a doctor on the Curry situation:

What is the difference between a head contusion and a concussion?

“It’s a big distinction actually because had he been diagnosed with a concussion it would have triggered a protocol that conceivably would have left him out seven to 10 days, at minimum, and probably would have missed the next couple of games.

“A contusion is just a soft tissue injury. It doesn’t affect the brain. ... A concussion is a mild traumatic brain injury.”

Is it rare to not see a concussion come out of a fall like that?

“Concussions come in all varieties. That’s one of the difficult things about taking care of them is some innocuous hits can lead to serious concussions. It doesn’t really correlate really well.

“Their big concern was probably his cervical spine because of the way he fell. If you noticed, they were holding his head and keeping him still. They did a great job of taking care of him — checking him and making sure he was OK to get up and move.

“When it looks bad, it doesn’t necessarily imply that it’s going to result in a concussion.”

Was he OK to go back on the court?

“It did look like he was holding his head and rubbing it, but once you put someone through the S.C.A.T (sideline concussion assessment test) exam you have a pretty good idea that they are safe to play. He checks out negative for concussion, you can put him back in and let them play.”
 
B

Bam Bam Baklava

Member
Rationally thinking, I'm just not seeing it. Unlike what some may think, my "hatred" is not blind. I actually look into what people are saying are reasons for the Cavs to win but the more I look the more it just comes back to Lebron. Every other matchup is favorable for the Warriors or it evens itself out.

So then I consider the Lebron factor but then I think how many other series did he play out of his mind throughout his career and they still ended up losing anyways? No matter where I look, I just don't see it.
 
M

msdstc

Incredibly Naive
Bam Bam Baklava said:
Rationally thinking, I'm just not seeing it. Unlike what some may think, my "hatred" is not blind. I actually look into what people are saying are reasons for the Cavs to win but the more I look the more it just comes back to Lebron. Every other matchup is favorable for the Warriors or it evens itself out.

So then I consider the Lebron factor but then I think how many other series did he play out of his mind throughout his career and they still ended up losing anyways? No matter where I look, I just don't see it.
Click to expand...

I don't think anybody has guaranteed a cavs win, in fact most people are talking as if the finals are already over and the cavs stand no chance. People are just listing reasons they have a punchers chance... unlike you.

Bam Bam Baklava said:
Other than "Lebron reasons" there's not much to argue. All the stats are on our side.
Click to expand...

Bam Bam Baklava said:
Sports are unpredictable, the NBA isn't.
Click to expand...

Bam Bam Baklava said:
The closer Cleveland gets, the sweeter it will be when they taste bitter defeat yet again. But there's always the Browns to look forward to.
Click to expand...

It's not as open and shut as you make it. Do I think the warriors will win? Yes I do. Could they go ice cold? Absolutely. KT has struggled with consistency, Bogut is glass, noone of them have finals experience.

Most people thought the thunder were gonna smoke the heat, but it turned out they couldn't handle the bright lights. harden absolutely vanished and KD and westbrick were trying to 1up eachother for who gets MVP. ultimately though, I believe their shooting is just too good. I legitimately have never seen anybody shoot the way Steph does, so we'll have to see. Shooters can go cold, players can shrink, it can happen on both sides. That's the beauty of sports you have to actually play the games.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
Tron#1 said:
i look at this almost like Miami vs OKC in the finals (assuming GOlden state gets there). There is noone on GS that can guard lebron. I think as a team Cleveland will be better defensivly than people are giving them credit for. If I am not mistaken TNT put up some stats and overall Cleveland has the best defense throughout the playoffs. here is a quote of the stats


Fact-checkers went to work and came back with the data. The Cavaliers lead the playoffs in:


•Points allowed per 100 possessions (98.1)
•Points allowed at 91.4 per game.
•Blocked shots at seven per game.
•Three-point shooting field goal percentage allowed (28.6%).
•Field-goal percentage allowed (41.2%), among the four remaining teams.

so yes its the easter conference I know everyone will throw that out there but the point I make is lets not act like the Cavs cant defend at all. I think this is going to be way more than a series than people think and I give Cavs a good chance of winning. Like I have said so many times... let the games be played and we will see.
Click to expand...

Warriors have Barnes, Igoudala and Green to throw at Lebron. You can't shut down LeBron but those guys will be able to hold their own and, more importantly, force LeBron to let his shitty teammates beat them. I mean, who do you have more faith in, those three guarding LeBron, or Delladova and Kyrie trying to guard Curry?

The Cavs real problem isn't going to be defense, it's that the Warriors are going to destroy their basic ass offense.
 
T

TTG

Member
Tron#1 said:
There is noone on GS that can guard lebron.

so yes its the easter conference I know everyone will throw that out there but the point I make is lets not act like the Cavs cant defend at all.
Click to expand...


Barnes and Green will be fine. They're not Kawhi, but they won't get thrown around and they're long enough. Besides, I don't know if you've been watching but Lebron's shot has evaporated. He's putting up AI field goal attempts to points numbers.

On the second point, with Love and Kyrie out the Cavs have 4 good defenders and they can hide JR. The issue is not going to be individual defense though, GS don't really care about beating anyone 1 on 1.
 
B

Bam Bam Baklava

Member
For a guy that nearly won DPOY this Green guy sure seems worthless. Can't guard Lebron, gonna be outplayed by TT. Let's send this scrub to the D-League already.
 
X

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
msdstc said:
Bogut is glass
Click to expand...

He's been remarkably healthy this season, including playoffs. His minutes have been managed throughout the year, I don't see why he'd all of a sudden become more injury-prone in the next series, especially after getting through Memphis already.
 
C

clevbrowns94

Member
Ninja Scooter said:
Thunder and Heat in '12 were way more evenly matched. This matchup will be closer to SA/Cavs in 07. Book it.
Click to expand...

Nah, San Antonio won three championships prior to that series (not all with those same players, but Duncan was there for all of them), while Golden State hasn't won anything so far, even though they had an amazing regular season. And Lebron had literally no one good on his team in '07 (he didn't even have Mo Williams at that point). Now, he at least has Kyrie Irving, albeit injured, and other players like TT and J.R. Smith stepping it up to high levels. Oh, and in 2007, they got to the Finals all by Lebron, such as his game 5 against Detroit where he scored every Cleveland point basically. This year, Lebron hasn't been spectacular in the playoffs, and again, role players like J.R. Smith and TT made a lot of the difference.

Bottom line is that the Cavs are 12-2 in the playoffs without Love and Irving (either injured for diminished for playoffs) and they destroyed the number 1 seed. Yeah, it's the East, and Golden State is the clear favorite, but let's not act like they are just lucky to be there like they were in '07.
 
E

effzee

Member
Tom Penny said:
He never had to go to Miami to get to Finals he copped out and took the easiest possible route he could. He'd still be in Miami if the Spurs didn't blow them out. He's great but that's how he operates.
Click to expand...

Yes! If he was a real man he would gone to the worst team in the West and then won a championship. Would have meant more you know?
 
G

Gully State

Member
I'm not gonna even talk about the potential Cavs matchup until the Dubs actually eliminate the Rockets.

I just read through the last page and the Triston Thompson over Draymond? If you watch the W's play, Draymond has been the anchor for the W's defense this postseason, not Bogut. He's had to go through the gauntlet of front courts this postseason. Vs AD, there was a stat in the series that AD's fg% was high 30's to low 40's when Draymond was on the court and 50's - 60's when he was off. He kept Z-Bo largely in check for the whole series. Not being a traditional PF in his case is a strength not a weakness. He's strong enough to hold his own against the bigger players (Gasol and Z-Bo) and also quick and long enough to check point guards. Our small ball lineup gives up very little on defense because his versatility and defensive prowess allows the W's to play him at the 5. As for rebounding, I don't really have any advanced stat to mention (but his 10+ boards a game average during the playoffs should be quite telling) but dude comes from the school of Izzo and and by the eye test, I rarely see him lose going after contested boards ( I can't count how many times he's had clutch putbacks against guys bigger than him)

But his biggest strength is his bball IQ. The guy is rarely out of position and is always making the right basketball plays. It's why from day one he's been beloved by the Warriors fanbase even when he was the 8th guy off the bench. Offensively, he's pragmatically added things to his game over the years to make him effective on that side of the court. His 3 ball isn't amazing but it's respectable. His playmaking as Steph's safety valve has been invaluable (evidenced by those 5 assists/game in the playoffs) and he's added initiating the offense off a defense board into his repertoire. In this series, we've started to see him go to the post when matched up against smaller players.

Draymond is never going to be someone that'll force a team to gameplan against him but he damn well will sabotage what the opposing team wants to do.
 
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