plagiarize
Banned
For some of us it's just a fact of life. I'm on call 18 weeks of the year and have to bring my gear with me wherever I go.
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22 dead, 59 injured in Manchester Arena explosion (Being treated as an attack)
- Thread starter E-phonk
- Start date
For some of us it's just a fact of life. I'm on call 18 weeks of the year and have to bring my gear with me wherever I go.
After events like 9/11, the Paris attacks, Charlie Hebdo and the bombings in Brussels. Is it really that wrong/surprising for some people to assume that the attack was fueled by radical islam and might have been perpetrated by groups like ISIS and Al Qaeda ?
Muffin1611
Banned
That doesn't make it better.
SomedayTheFire
Member
Just want to clear something up here. A news outlet reported that the bang may have been "large balloons filled with gas". Some posters reacted without thinking saying why would balloons be filled with gas. Others pointed out that helium is a gas, albeit inert. There wasn't pages of people saying it was a helium balloon popped. There was at least one news agency running balloon story, which comes from the arenas PA saying that to stop panic.
Read above. One news agency ran with the balloon story after people in the arena confirmed they were told it was a balloon to stop panic.
Vivalaraza
Member
I really don't want to get drawn to far in to this whodunit debate - but one thing I would say is I suggest you go and do some extensive reading into the name, it's history and political implications.
I read in to a little while ago and learnt alot that I didn't expect. Your post suggest your understanding is pretty thin on this topic.
Isil are as much a non religious movement as they are religious. Western media and political circles have never understood this and it's one of the reasons we are failing so badly in dealing with them.
Polygonal_Sprite
Member
This is a great idea. Manchester aswell as the UK at large seems completely unprepared for such an attack.
Spaced Harrier
Member
Are you fucking kidding me?
Maybe that equivocation flies in England but this is an international board. With Irish people on it.
Ireland was never a religious issue, it was human and civil rights issue. Self determination.
Israel & Palestine is the same thing.
In each case religion, identity and the dividing lines were the symptoms. But it's not the actual core issue.
But Islamic fundamentalism is a religious based schism of "terrorism".
It's the core tenant, that's the difference.
ShironRedshift
Member
I seem to recall last summer, there was an incident in... I wanna say Germany (but I'm not really sure; can't remember) that there were reports that someone was shooting up a busy market. People quickly jumped aboard the Muslim terrorist train, especially after some anonymous fuckwit called into CNN (and only CNN apparently despite this not being a US incident) saying they heard someone yell "Allahu ackbar." But as details came in, it became clear that despite initial rumors that there might have been multiple shooters going around the market, that it seemed that only one individual was responsible and that the incident was confined to a local McDonalds. Then as the incident resolved itself I also recall that it turns out that the incident had nothing to do with Islam at all (and the caller on CNN was full of bullshit) and the incident was caused by a bullied student calling his bullies to a local McDonalds to attempt to kill them.
Similarly, I also recall a certain incident in Quebec that Trump was quite fast to call Islamic terrorism, but turned out to be nothing of the sort, and for Trump to offer no retraction or apology and never talk about it again.
The point is, no matter how sure you might be, we know absolutely nothing right now, and it causes no harm to just wait for the facts to come in and not jump to conclusions. Maybe it is; maybe it isn't. Either way, jumping to conclusions helps no one and as both of those incidents demonstrates, no matter how much an incident seems to fit the pattern or match up at first, that doesn't mean that will actually pan out in the end, and there's no harm in waiting.
That doesn't mean people are denying that terrorism is a problem or any such thing. All people are saying is that jumping to conclusions and labeling situations before we have all the facts doesn't actually help anything either or change them or magically make them any better and it does no additional harm to wait until we have all the facts, in order to make sure we actually have those facts straight and we don't cause any unnecessary confusion or jump to conclusions that may be unfounded.
That sounds fair to me, and I'm not sure how anyone can disagree with it, especially after incidents such as the one's I've mentioned that demonstrate that things that first appear to be Islamic terrorism or whatever don't always turn out to be in the end, so I don't get how anyone benefits from rushing to apply labels before we actually know anything. That doesn't change anything, magically make terrorism go away, or help us deal with it any meaningful way. The only thing it does it let tensions flare and information to get more muddled and confused, benefiting no one. So keep this to facts only as doing otherwise helps no one, alright?
Wouldn't go down well in Australia, where people bring in drinks, hats, sunblock and whatnot. Stuff they feel is necessary at events like Cricket during the summer.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
Any direction I should start towards? I'm all for learning.
Majukun
Member
you can't stop it, not without violating the rights of all the people...as long as there are pricate spaces,someone can make in it something they shouldn't,and as long as you can have a backpack,you can bring it anywhere you want in a public space.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
There's a team of asshats orchestrating such events by "one idiot", fuck them all.
Stop giving him attention.
This fucker is a journalist! and how the hell does his tweet gets 3k likes.
pathetic!
Stead Fast
Banned
Parody account or no, the sentiment was there nonetheless, so no worries.
It makes me mad! but you're right
shouldn't we wait and try to cut down on the speculation, then? I mean, is it really absolutely necessary to talk about SOMETHING just to fill the time?
Yeah, shame on the people who were hoping it's not a terrorist attack. Shame on them, the monsters!
plagiarize
Banned
It's completely relevant to your point. Because the IRA's issues are heavily steeped in religious conflicts. We still didn't make sure to always spell it out. ISIL doesn't contain the word Islamic. One of the letters in it stands for Islam, but you don't have to make sure to highlight that point every single time you refer to them. People choose to do that, and I don't think they have any misunderstanding as to why they do it.
Right now, doing that isn't any more helpful than claiming a second device was found when the controlled explosion was carried out, before we had confirmation that it wasn't in fact a second device.
Good job on the full picture quote. Bravo.
SomedayTheFire
Member
He's not a journalist either. Freelance games reviewer and twitch streamer. He's a nobody.
Vivalaraza
Member
There's a book that came out recently called "Prisoners of Geography. The chapter on the Middle East explores this. I am sure other places online do aswell, but that chapter has a very good summary of the historical and current issues.
(The whole book is really good fwiw)
Milly Osworth
Member
Cowards.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
Fair enough. I understand where you're coming from.
Thanks, I'll definitely check this out. I've been looking for something to read, anyways.
I think it's a natural thing that most people do in one form or another.
What kind of gear exactly?
Because terrorists are proactive not reactive. You could ban anything and everything and someone determined enough will find a way to harm others. Though the UK and EU intelligence services are in need of overhaul. Need better tracking both foreign and domestic of groups operating, yet we are in lone wolf territory these days. Single individuals. Many report this was lone man, lone suicide bomber. I mean the UK, there is full CCTV coverage in cities. And yet these things happen.
plagiarize
Banned
Hi, my name's Space Harrier and I have no idea who I am talking to, or the history of the troubles in Ireland and how deeply tied to religion they were.
Maybe if someone had always made it a point to call the IRA Catholic extremists I would know to hate all Catholics, but nobody did.
Vivalaraza
Member
Yeah when I first went to the UK NFL games I thought this rule was fucking stupid but increasingly I can understand why it's done.
If an organiser can't guarantee the safety of the event by checking every bag they are within the rights to do whatever they have to do to make that guarantee as best as possible.
In the UK? I find that hard to believe, I'm sure some of the top clubs might have them though. Last time I went to Wembley, Emirates and Leicester stadium they never had them, was a few years ago though.
Majukun
Member
yeah,wondered what he hell that means myself..a guy with a bomb in a backpack doesn't really sound like military-grade ops,not a james bond villain plan either.
plagiarize
Banned
My tablet, my 4g modem, my power vault. Things I've never been stopped from bringing into events before, although obviously I can see that that might not continue.
Sadly behavior profiling (not racial profiling) is the strongest tool there is.
But in masses of people like that....yeah
Stead Fast
Banned
Agreed, that's exactly what I mean, beyond what so many security and emergency services already have in place to prevent an attack like this, I shudder to think what other measures may be put in place, which is why I think (hopefully, if not wholly optimistically
SomedayTheFire
Member
I mean the Tories have an iron grip on the UK at the moment anyway and France turned out OK.
How did that work out in France again ?
GoldenCrow
Member
Bollocks to that, fuck changing everything due to some dick heads. Its a big enough of a pain doing it at an airport never mind filtering through to everyday life. Not like it would have done anything anyway if the reports are accurate.
That's all true. However, for several pages afterwards there were posters asking if it was safe to use helium balloons in an enclosed venue culminating in one user posting a video of a hydrogen balloon exploding that was labelled as helium.
Surely you can see how people are able to take these unverified reports and run with them. Which is why many posters, including myself, want to wait for official confirmation of facts instead of jumping to conclusions based on current available information and unverified reports/tweets.
Damn Donald, we thought we would hear from you on Twitter first
This fucker is a journalist! and how the hell does his tweet gets 3k likes.
pathetic!
What a shitbag.
BlazingDarkness
Member
Not in Manchester though, even a terrorist attack won't change that
TiredofWinning
Member
No, this is the perfect opportunity for May to appear STRONG AND STABLE after her u turn today on social care made her look weak. It'll help the Tories more than anyone.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
Spaced Harrier
Member
Nationalist doesn't equal Catholic extremist you clown.
I even pointed out handily for you that Palestinian Self determination does not equal Islamic fundamentalism, but a desire for a Palestinian homeland, and similar for Israel.
Religious fundamentalism is different from nationalist or separatist grievances.
I even pointed out handily for you that Palestinian Self determination does not equal Islamic fundamentalism, but a desire for a Palestinian homeland, and similar for Israel.
Religious fundamentalism is different from nationalist or separatist grievances.