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22 dead, 59 injured in Manchester Arena explosion (Being treated as an attack)

Spuck-uk

Spuck-uk

Banned
BocoDragon said:
I don't base it on a single book. I'm just giving a source which can help illuminate historians' view of early Islam. The first caliphate was expansionist and presumed its own dominion over the old world, especially the Holy Land and Europe/Christendom because they were lands promoting a corrupted Abrahamic religion that Islam thought it was supposed to replace.

No, this dominion over Europe/Christendom was not enshrined as a hard doctrine in scripture. And for that I am grateful. But the drive to expand into this land is a part of early Islamic history, and that's the history that all Muslims, particularly extremists, can look back on and get ideas....

No I am not Muslim. Atheist with a history degree.
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So, similar to the crusades and other European wars of expansion then.
 
Spuck-uk

Spuck-uk

Banned
Herr Schwarz said:
Yeah it's weird we hate Iran these days. I was itching my head because Iran seems to actually have elections. Whereas the Saudis have a king.

Was definitely a head scratcher.
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We've hated Iran since they kicked out the British puppet government headed by the Shah.
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Dr. Benton Quest said:
'On purpose' means that western coalitions knew that children would die in the attack, but went ahead with it anyway. They didn't need to specifically target children in order for the attack to be on purpose.

Here is just one's example where loss of life was very high and included women and children.

There are hundreds of articles and images online that depict families weeping over their deadlines children after U.S. airstikes.
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I'll be charitable... I know how you could interpret "purpose" in my post as meaning "the US military knew kids would die in the attack, and they did it anyway". Fine, I agree. They've launched strikes knowing kids would die, when they needed to do so to kill other military targets.

But I was very literal in the way I used the word purpose. As in, the primary goal of an operation. The purpose of the operation.

I maintain that America/West has never launched an attack with the main purpose being child death. But the main purpose of targeting a 23 year old pop singer's concert is specifically to cause child death for purposes of shock/retaliation.

If you can think of examples where the West did target children in such a way... I'm always open to hearing it.
 
S

Seldomly Jambon

Member
Roufianos said:
ISIS are winning
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What kind of defeatist, panicky crap is this? As an average Londoner who's been here through several terror attacks I'd say that's far from the truth. We mourn the dead and then go on living our lives fully with a resounding fuck you to the repugnant scum who try and fail to have us live in fear of them. Same as elsewhere in Europe.

My thoughts are with the people of Manchester and those effected by this senseless violence. May they heal and find solace. Rest in peace those that did not make it.
 
C

chromatic9

Member
Roufianos said:
I'm sick of all this empty talk. "We stand strong", "Terrorists never win". It means absolutely nothing. ISIS are winning and we're doing fuck all about it.

Why don't we send troops there and destroy them instead of waiting to be attack. I understand that radical Islam is an ideology but allowing an Islamic state to exist which preaches this doctrine should surely be the first step to defeating it.

How many Europeans have to die before we wake up.
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We have sent troops but It's actually very hard to fight people who hide, use civilians as shields Also our previous interventions means we're the terrorists entering the middle east and vastly more muslims have been killed by ISIS than Europeans. This is a war on the world who don't follow their radical views and pure gangsterism and the western governments have only helped this along not only with interventions but taking out regimes that used to keep these militant groups at bay. We take out one regime only for a worse one to take hold, these places come up for grabs.
 
H

hodgy100

Member
BocoDragon said:
I'll be charitable... I know how you could interpret "purpose" in my post as meaning "the US military knew kids would die in the attack, and they did it anyway". Fine, I agree. They've launched strikes knowing kids would die, when they needed to do so to kill other military targets.

But I was very literal in the way I used the word purpose. As in, the primary goal of an operation. The purpose of the operation.

I maintain that America/West has never launched an attack with the main purpose being child death. But the main purpose of targeting a 23 year old pop singer's concert is specifically to cause child death for purposes of shock/retaliation.

If you can think of examples where the West did target children in such a way... I'm always open to hearing it.
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Id argue it doesnt matter whether children were specifically targeted or not, the loss of young innocent lives whether through a targeted attack or through malpractice or apathy. Both are terrible and inexcusable and the west have destroyed millions of peoples ways of life through their middle eastern intervention. of course people are going to be angry at our countries governments.

It of course doesn't make attacks like this OK, attacks like this are despicable no matter who or why its been done. but by ignoring why these things happen we will never fix this cycle we seem to be in and we will forever make the same mistakes.
 
P

Preezy

Member
So at what point does humanity shed itself of the farce that is religion? Come on, surely our species has matured to the level that we no longer need this delusion affecting our daily lives?
 
F

fanboi

Banned
Preezy said:
So at what point does humanity shed itself of the farce that is religion? Come on, surely our species has matured to the level that we no longer need this delusion affecting our daily lives?
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Some people believe.

Some people find the sense of community reassuring.

Some need answers to all your questions.
 
B

BossDarkseid

Member
Preezy said:
So at what point does humanity shed itself of the farce that is religion? Come on, surely our species has matured to the level that we no longer need this delusion affecting our daily lives?
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Probably because for a lot of people it's not just about some cult-mentality? I mean it's not like the heads of ISIS are really in it for "religion", as opposed to being in it with a lust for power and petty vendettas.
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Spuck-uk said:
So, similar to the crusades and other European wars of expansion then.
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It's similar. Of course many Christians/Westerners do take inspiration from the Crusades (Steve Bannon, whoop whoop).

Though I think there is something intrinsic and early in the history of Islam that saw itself as the natural successor/dominator of old world Abrahamic society, which is not true in the reverse.

An original reading of Islam can see itself as the true heir to Christendom. But Christendom doesn't see itself as the true heir to Islam.... it just wants any challenge to it to go away.

The theological history would motivate modern Islamic extremists to feel like the Abrahamic world is inevitably theirs to a degree which would take a lot more effort from Western extremists in the reverse.
 
P

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
God, Yahweh, and Allah suspiciously silent as per usual.

I see the kind acts of mortal Mancunians though.
 
D

diabl0

Member
Septic360 said:
Shit like this always gets ignored or over-shadowed.

People here saying Muslims should come together to rally against this.

Wanna know how I as a Muslim feel?

You want me to say "Hey, we are against these terrorist scum bags. It should be obvious already but you need an express statement from me? How many times? Forget the fact that ISIS have killed mostly us Muslims and the fact that this indiscriminate attack could have killed us Muslims, or that we Muslims are at the front lines fighting ISIS, you want me to tell you that we aren't terrorists."

Its fucking infuriating. I went on LBC radio to denounce the Boston bombings trying to tell everyone "hey we are against this". Why teh fuck wouldn't we be??? Do you know so little about us that you need an express statement from us to say we believe that the killing of innocent people is wrong and we are against it?

But then part of me is conflicted because clearly people are fucking thick and need to obviously spoon fed to them.

So yeah, OF COURSE Im fucking against this. Heck, I'll go on a rally to drill that obvious fact to you. Yes it wont surprise me if it largely gets ignored because it HAPPENS ALL THE TIME and has been for years.

Countless lectures, countless times the Muslim community have reached out, countless times we cry, bleed, fight and die for this message but somehow it all gets lost when some utter cunt does this in the name of our faith.

Its just fucking tiring....every since 9/11 its the same old shit. Fucking draining as fuck.

Believe me, if the majority of us Muslims could have gotten a hold of this cretin who committed this digusting vile and inhumane act, you don't wanna know how our anger would translate into our actions. We are angry too believe me. And on top we have our faith besmirched by this guy.
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This! Couldnt have said it better myself. Unfortunately some shallow minded individuals are so bent with thats been dictated through their TV that no amount of explanation will get through their head.

Unfortunately, with half the shit that is going on where ever USA/UK have put their war finger in, has lead to catastrophes. People saying "oh it wasnt on purpose that children have died from our million dollar plus f16 fighters with laser target technology bs". No one gives a shit. You killed someones son/daughter, and those fathers would avenge their son/daughter because they have nothing left to lose thanks to that missle/bullet that killed their son/daughter, so they end up radicalized by people like ISIS. People just cant seem to get that! Yes ISIS motives are fucked up but its because of their fucked up views people are so depressed by whats happening in their own country they feel its the only right thing to do to get back as western countries.

I for one have went to Syria as part of a charity and rest assured these people are scared shitless and have lost so all motive to live, the level of hate they have for both westerners and the arab world is very high because the world sits back and relaxes doing sweet all about it. They curse these people every day. You people sitting behind your keyboard screen THINKING and havent actually done anything first hand in terms of what goes on in Syria and other countries are shallow and blinded. Thats a fact unfortunately regardless of how harsh that sounds.

Regardless of the war, people are dead, regardless of how you spin it. Question is, can it be avoided? Yes!. Only a sheep would say otherwise. ISIS still exists, Al Queda still exists, no war has solved this. Its caused a sheer shakedown in muslim community and white supremists are just scared or feel the need to throw abuse at us as time has gone by.

My sympathy is with those people who lost their lives and have a few friends are in manchester helping but the hypocrisy is very high in this thread its uncanny.
 
B

Bebpo

Banned
Preezy said:
So at what point does humanity shed itself of the farce that is religion? Come on, surely our species has matured to the level that we no longer need this delusion affecting our daily lives?
Click to expand...

People are always going to be afraid of dying. Without religion, the idea that it's the end and that's it, there's just no way to 100% cope with that. Religion and believing in something beyond is a coping factor and since humans want to inherently survive, religion will always have power and be needed by many to cope.

Now there's lots of other good stuff about religion and how it can provide benefits as well as all the historical horrible negatives, but I think the core reason of people needing to believe death isn't the end will make it so religion never truly fades away. So we need to come up with other methods to try to prevent these kinds of violent attack mindsets without taking religion away.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
dumbo said:
The Saudi's have a king and the Iranians have a Grand Ayatollah.
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Right, but Iran has a degree of democracy within certain boundaries, which is not the case for Saudi Arabia (aside from at municipal level).
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

Member
A college student from Lancashire has become the first victim of the suicide attack at Manchester Arena to be named.

Georgina Callander was one of 22 people who died after the explosion on Monday at the end of a concert by US singer Ariana Grande.

Runshaw College in Leyland said it was making the announcement with "enormous sadness".

It said Georgina - reported to be 18 - was on the second year of a health and social care course.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40012738
 
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