Empyrean Heaven
Member
Whelp, I hate to be that guy, but I think this just won the Tories the election, and Brexit got a bunch of new supporters.
RIP to those lost in this tragedy.
RIP to those lost in this tragedy.
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22 dead, 59 injured in Manchester Arena explosion (Being treated as an attack)
- Thread starter E-phonk
- Start date
Theonik
Member
I wouldn't take that as much. I feel IS will claim any attack they can even if they are not directly involved. It furthers their cause this way. If they were really responsible they wouldn't have waited to see if someone else had claimed it.
Herr Schwarz
Banned
It's just not sustainable in the long term. Because dictators can at some point, turn mad. Or say if the next Saudi King, turned into Joffre.
Without checks and balances, these dictatorships ultimately collapse on themselves eventually, I don't know many dictatorships that don't either become a massive problem, or exist on a timeline that is extremely shaky in contrast to the rule of law and democracy.
Sadam wasn't what kept the terrorist organisations in check, it was the governance, the control. When he was removed, they didn't erect a power structure capable enough of keeping the terrorists in check. We created a vacuum and they took over in those ungovernable spaces. This isn't just the mid east that happens. Think about all those warlords in Africa. They exist because of ungoverned space.
Grim horrible news, only just been catching up with it for the last couple of hours. Horrendous in any scenario but a gig primarily filled with kids and young people, fuck. Thoughts to those affected. Got a lot of friends and family in Manchester - Mancunians are a hardy bunch, they're not letting these cunts get to them.
They were always going to win so don't be that guy
Mr Solo Dolo
Member
It more than likely is them, but at this point I could stub my little toe and ISIS would claim responsibility for it.
Herr Schwarz
Banned
Yeah but we'll claim platitudes about not letting the terrorists win. Eugh.
Dr. Benton Quest
Banned
You need a dictionary. Nothing about knowingly blowing up children is 'accidental'.
Let me make this plain for you since you're having trouble.
The west knowingly kills children. Thousands of them.
Terrorism will always win. It's just too damn effective.
It was either ISIS or AQ.
No one else uses suicide attacks against soft targets.
Even if it's some loon radicalized by ISIS via the internet it is an ISIS attack.
ISIS will claim responsibility for anything that instills fear in western countries.
The interesting thing will be if its an isis inspired attack or if this was directly planned by isis themselves.
Herr Schwarz
Banned
Yeah, I think part of it is the legislators that are riding the fear and hate to create their shit hole societies, quite irresponsibly I may add.
Moff
Member
It's not whataboutism if people ask for the reasons behind these attacks. The US and their allies have killed thousands of civilians, often they are anticipated collateral damage, which still makes them "on purpose", but there have been leaks of double tap attacks that target civilians spezifically.
Even if these would not have happened it's understandable people get very angry if we destabilize and bomb their country purely out of greed and lust for power.
Does that in any way justify an attack on kids? Of course not, no one said it was not a cowardly deplorable act. But until we realize these are reactions to our own governments atrocities, we will continue to have these attacks. I am glad to see though, that more and more people realize that, this thread would have looked a lot different a few years ago.
Don't they normally give the name, if it's a directly connected attack? They used to do that afaik.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Surprise sur-fuckin-prise. Fuck them hard.
BlazingDarkness
Member
The Tories would have won regardless. Though Manchester will still vote Labour.
Kill Your Masters
Member
Of course it is, since the most powerful country in the world likes to touch fancy light orbs with the biggest exporter of radical Islam in the middle east.
Forget peace there as long as one of the biggest western allies in the Middle East is co-responsible for this mess, sprinkle some US interventionism on it, and you got yourself terror organisations picking up the slack of the last one for decades to come.
It always works as distraction, atleast when it happens in the west. Thats about it.
I think they only do that if it's someone who has been tasked with an attack or made some kind of video loyalty pledge.
English Amaq statement:
https://twitter.com/siteintelgroup/status/866987377520193540
Audioboxer
Member
It doesn't matter that much. If you're assigning yourself to be "fighting on behalf" of a radical terrorist movement, you are part of it. Even if you haven't been spoken to directly from some terrorist sitting at "ISIS HQ". The message sent out from radicals is all people who align themselves with the cause and act out are one and the same.
These terrorists are largely homegrown. They haven't been born in war-torn countries and have a direct "bone to pick" with the Western countries they end up in. They are often born here and through indoctrination/reading/preaching and getting involved in fundamental circles, they radicalise and then act out, often for the cause of martyrdom. The trends being an overwhelming majority of males, which I've said a few times. However, the trends as of late also often being born nationals, rather than people coming into the country from abroad. However, sure, their families/parents or even a lot of the preachers and radicals in their circles may well have been born abroad. Sometimes though, they are born abroad and sickeningly use the migrant crisis as a way to get into countries.
Males being radicalised and the concept of martyrdom are two things that really need to be focused on. Like it or not in terms of doctrine, the concept of martyrdom itself is largely spread throughout the Islamic world. Becoming a warrior or fighter for the cause of God, and sacrificing one's self for a promise of reward. A lot of widespread terrorism uses guns and bombs to kill, but actual suicide bombing is often almost exclusively linked to one kind of radical terrorism.
ClosingADoor
Member
These guys need to slowly give away power to their people, so the institutions and society can adapt to it. We didn't go from kingdoms to democracy in one go in Europe also. It went slowly, with setbacks and fights. But it is now at least relatively stable because the people are used to it.
this is the first attack i've read about that has hit pretty close to home. first victim identified lived not so far away and one of my friend's sister's is treating injured in a hospital :/ my condolences go out to all of those effected and i hope to god those injured can pull through
. Here's hoping the vast majority of injured manage to pull through.Fuck them. Also, they also claimed the Brussia Dortman team bombing which turned out to be a loner trying to profit from trading shares. So I doubt it, they are trying to stay relevant now that Iraqi forces are hunting them down. Cunts
ISIS actually never claimed that attack but the actual perp made a fake statement claiming to be ISIS
Theonik
Member
Please wait for investigators to conclude on any connections and affiliations the attacker might have had before jumping to conclusions.
A few friends on my Facebook are plastering my timeline looking for information on a certain person that they know that hasn't been in contact since last night. This is someone who's very social media-oriented (always Snapchatting, Instagramming etc.) , he even snapchatted mid-concert, and they haven't heard anything.
Not looking good but I hope he's okay.
Not looking good but I hope he's okay.
Herr Schwarz
Banned
Yeah but they don't wanna right? And you can't have revolutions like that anymore, technologically speaking, it's just not possible without massive collateral damage.
I was shocked, my mid east lore isn't so great. I didn't realise Iran was an actual democracy... we should be supporting them more than the fucking Saudis. Billions of guns to the saudis, that'll get filtered down towards who knows who.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Wow!
You're saying that any attack on a terrorist/militant was wrong because it happens to endanger the civilians/children around him?
And you're making a moral equivalence to people like in Manchester who intentionally target random children unconnected to a personal threat to them?
I feel bad for you actually. This looks bad.
The Tories were always going to win regardless of current events.
hobblygobbly
Member
ISIS will always claim responsibility even if they were unaware of the attack, because their propaganda tells people in countries like UK, France, Germany, Sweden, etc to carry out attacks on their own will. ISIS doesn't know of all the attacks being planned, but will claim it for furthering propaganda.
Pretty reductive considering the effects it has on political legislation in regards to immigration as well as the individual hatred of groups it stirs up.
It keeps happening because it works. And everytime both political entities and individuals play right into it...which I mean it's difficult not to.
Still, waiting for the facts to emerge on what this actually was but the narrative around Muslim involvement has already started forming.
Herr Schwarz
Banned
No but I think Brexit happened because of concern over terrorism. If we weren't at war with terror. I dont think we would of brexit.
astroturfing
Member
yes i avoid crossing busy roads when possible, why wouldnt i? and yes i quit driving years ago, i only do it if i'm forced to, like once per year or less. flying.. dunno, i dont fly anyway, once a decade or so maybe (it is scary as fuck though).
it's easy to say we can't live our lives in fear, if you have the ability to just ignore the very real risks. i kind of can't, death is too real for me, having almost died myself (ICU for 2 weeks), and working in a hospital where i see what happens to people in traffic/accidents etc. it's just an inescapable part of my psychology, death is on my mind all the time basically.
Even if he's amongst the injured he could be without access to post that he's ok. Hope he turns out to be ok.
Armed police is currently conducting raids at a flat on the Whalley Range/Chorlton border and royston court in carlton road
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...arena-ariana-grande-concert-explosion-england
Second victim named is 8 year old saffie rose roussos according to the guardian.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...arena-ariana-grande-concert-explosion-england
Second victim named is 8 year old saffie rose roussos according to the guardian.
ClosingADoor
Member
That is why it needs to go slow. Right now, if you hold elections, they vote in religious parties that will restrict the rights of a ton of people again.
Iran is not really a democracy in the Western sense. I guess it is better then Saudi Arabia, but it is far from what we are used to in the West. Problem in Saudi Arabia is probably, if you don't have a strong king at the top, these guys will go back to tribalism like we saw in Libya.
Dr. Benton Quest
Banned
No. It kills them. Stop trivializing the willful murder of innocents so that we can kill a few ISIS fighters.
I can't imagine the compartmentalization going on in your head. Blowing up kids is ok in some instances but not in others?
As long as our motives are 'pure', fuck em. Right? You need help bud.
I don't think they officially claimed that, did they? There were letters found but those were placed there by the loner to lead the investigation on the wrong track.
afaik has isis been rather consistent with only claiming responsibility for attacks they were involved in to at least some degree.
Pankratous
Member
The guy you are talking to appears to have engaged maximum dafty mode.
I think they only do that if it's someone who has been tasked with an attack or made some kind of video loyalty pledge.
English Amaq statement:
https://twitter.com/siteintelgroup/status/866987377520193540
The word "Crusaders" is used for anybody that isn't ISIS? Is that supposed to be about the Christian crusades from eons ago? OK then. Plenty of people hurt in the attack probably couldn't care less about religion or actual crusaders from way back when in the first place. But I get it. ISIS needs to use labels and that's their go to one.
I think they only do that if it's someone who has been tasked with an attack or made some kind of video loyalty pledge.
English Amaq statement:
https://twitter.com/siteintelgroup/status/866987377520193540
For fucks sake, the language used in that just shows how delusional these people are. Calling themselves soldiers while killing little children and calling them "crusaders". This is mad. These people need to join us in the current year and stop with this insanity about their imaginary vicious higher forces.
polyh3dron
Banned
ISIS are attention whores, they claim responsibility for everything.
Yup.
esmith08734
Member
Hope he is okay.
This is so sad. Honestly, you try and live your life as best you can but it sucks that the small thought of something horrific like this happening at any moment is rooted into my brain. I wish these events would just stop but it doesn't seem to be the case.
Jezbollah
Member
To add context to AB's post, primary school age in the UK is from 5 to 11 years old.
Herr Schwarz
Banned
Yeah, it's just weird because it kind of seems like they are trying to embrace reform as incrementally as they can. And they have capitulated to the nuclear deal, so we must have political capitol with them to get them to negotiate with the West on terms that are extremely good for everyones safety. I don't know why we're selling guns to saudis and spitting on iran.