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[GoldenCrow]

To add context to AB's post, primary school age in the UK is from 5 to 11 years old.

Its an 8 year old girl.

 

[Darkstorne]

The word "Crusaders" is used for anybody that isn't ISIS? Is that supposed to be about the Christian crusades from eons ago? OK then. Plenty of people hurt in the attack probably couldn't care less about religion or actual crusaders from way back when in the first place. But I get it. ISIS needs to use labels and that's their go to one.

I mean, I can see why. Anything ISIS do today pales in comparison to the Crusades. ISIS is a small minority of religious extremists. The Crusades were fully endorsed by the Christian faith who promised eternal life in heaven to any soldiers who fought in the middle east, forgiving them for all past AND future sins, thereby endorsing murder, torture, and rape, all in the name of God. It was terrorism from an entire religion rather than ISIS being a small minority of gosh darned cunts. They definitely want to remind people of that as much as possible, even though it doesn't make sense when the Christian faith today is completely different and so many of us aren't even religious.

 

[Audioboxer]

From what I just said about being born in the country of the attack

Attacker 'either British or from Britain'
Danny Shaw, home affairs correspondent, says...

Danny Shaw
BBC Home Affairs Correspondent

It is understood the attacker is either British or from Britain, although this has not been confirmed from official sources.

More arrests and raids are expected to follow the arrest of a 23-year-old man in south Manchester.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-manchester-40007967

Not confirmed totally just yet, but I won't be surprised.

 

[MmmSkyscraper]

BBC News

Article on the community response, usually overlooked in favour of being right on the internet about anything other than what actually happened to real people.

 

[Ray Wonder]

No. It kills them. Stop trivializing the willful murder of innocents so that we can kill a few ISIS fighters.


I can't imagine the compartmentalization going on in your head. Blowing up kids is ok in some instances but not in others?


As long as our motives are 'pure' fuck em. Right? You need help bud.

Yeah, because those ISIS fighters intend to kill children. Including Muslim children in Muslim countries. If we weren't killing ISIS, they would've killed lots more than they have. Potentially spreading, and taking over more territory than they have. Leading to lots more children's deaths.

It's a morbid reality that deaths of innocent people is collateral damage. ISIS is an international threat, and without necessary suppression, they could eventually become a real danger to society as a whole.

 

[plagiarize]

From what I just said about being born in the country of the attack



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-manchester-40007967

Not confirmed totally just yet, but I won't be surprised.

I expect a second or third generation immigrant. Seems to be the pattern in these things.

It'll likely be some young man, who was a loner, radicalized by online propaganda, most likely.

That seems to be the profile these days.

 

[sanstesy]

You people do realise what it means to willingly take responsibility for a terrorist attack? There is literally no point in doubting their claim.

 

[Bustanen]

For fucks sake, the language used in that just shows how delusional these people are. Calling themselves soldiers while killing little children and calling them "crusaders". This is mad. These people need to join us in the current year and stop with this insanity about their imaginary vicious higher forces.

All they "need" is a bullet to the head.

 

[WhatNXt]

I don't think we should provide the oxygen of publicity to the propaganda of evil losers in life. Certainly not in image form.

The Tories were always going to win regardless of current events.

I don't think that's the case at all. In fact, there's very much a hope (even if it might be a faint one) that they'll lose.


Twitter seems like a horrible mistake to me lately. Between people faking missing person posts for retweets, posting fake news about Oldham hospital as it was happening, and people piling all over the news to further whatever repugnant agenda they have - I think I'm just over it. The thought of parents and relatives trying to use it to find news last night sickens me to my stomach, people are absolute idiots.

 

[Budi]

All they "need" is a bullet to the head.

Yeah well I guess that would work too to some extent, it's a not a cure to the disease though. Killing people after they have already radicalized and done harm to others.

 

[Chuckie]

Yeah, because those ISIS fighters intend to kill children. Including Muslim children in Muslim countries. If we weren't killing ISIS, they would've killed lots more than they have. Potentially spreading, and taking over more territory than they have. Leading to lots more children's deaths.

Well sometimes they don't intend to kill them, just rape them over and over and over.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

It's worth remembering that ISIS themselves have repeatedly stated that the primary reason they do these things is that we are not Muslim, and that foreign intervention is always secondary.

It's difficult to stomach but this is the new normal now, unless geopolitics allows for a complete and total obliteration militarily.

I feel for UK Muslims who are tarnished by this, but it's nearly always homegrown terrorism with links to UK radicals.

 

[plagiarize]

You people do realise what it means to willingly take responsibility for a terrorist attack? There is literally no point in doubting their claim.

What does it mean?

This is a tiny infraction when compared against everything ISIS has been confirmed to have done. Claiming responsibility for this isn't going to change how the rest of the world is responding to their campaign of hate.

 

[Audioboxer]

I expect a second or third generation immigrant. Seems to be the pattern in these things.

It'll likely be some young man, who was a loner, radicalized by online propaganda, most likely.

That seems to be the profile these days.

Definitely male. It's pretty much always males. I personally feel not enough focus goes on to why that is, with everyone focussing more on the doctrine, faith or ideology the attacker lines up with. I gave my thoughts earlier as to some reasons I think it is, but I'd like to see the Government/Police forces talk more openly about the gender and ideas/concepts around that as to why. I know they do behind the scenes, but it's not always addressed much in public.

I don't know enough to talk about the channels of propaganda, and while online/social media will be a big influence, I still think local communities/local preachers (imams/priests or w/e your ideology calls a prominent speaker) play a massive part. It's not just about focussing on those with the aptitude to actually act out/attack, it's also about looking at radicalization of minds. The hardest thing to deal with, as by in large we cannot and do not restrict peoples freedoms for thought-crime. Said "thought crime" spreading through hundreds of men, many of whom fantasise about their lives having meaning, such as god and their people idolising them as warriors/soldiers, will end up leading to some of them going from simply thinking something, to actually acting it out.

The human mind has the ability to think some heinous shit about other people with the vessel in charge keeping it at that, thought. However, many minds show over and over they'll go past thought to actual action.

 

[Brhoom]

I cried today, the posts on twitter are heartbreaking.

English Amaq statement:

https://twitter.com/siteintelgroup/status/866987377520193540

What kind of mentality must you have to hurt innocent people and bring religion into it?

 

[JonnyDBrit]

BBC News

Article on the community response, usually overlooked in favour of being right on the internet about anything other than what actually happened to real people.

A good read. Needed something like that after this. Must be an unspoken rule among taxi drivers now that if there's a disaster, profit goes out the window.

 

[Izuna]

The Arndale? My girlfriend is working there today, fuck.

That's where I work too, but I'm not in today.

What's going on.

 

[Auctopus]

Man, I was just reading through the Twitter of the best friend of the first victim named in the attack.

I know this isn't the first time young lives have been lost due to terrorism but I just can't imagine how this would affect your world view going forward.

 

[Kinyou]

ISIS are attention whores, they claim responsibility for everything.

What makes you think that? Usually they're involved in some capacity, even if it was just inspiration.

The lag between the attack and their claim is often because they need to establish themselves what connection they had.

 

[Jackpot]

You people do realise what it means to willingly take responsibility for a terrorist attack? There is literally no point in doubting their claim.

Of course there is.

https://news.vice.com/story/multipl...ility-for-attack-on-sleeping-pakistani-cadets

Groups want the credit because it attracts followers to their cause and makes people take them seriously. If we took your advice our intelligence agencies would end up focusing on the wrong threat half the time.

 

[plagiarize]

Definitely male. It's pretty much always males. I personally feel not enough focus goes on to why that is, with everyone focussing more on the doctrine, faith or ideology the attacker lines up with. I gave my thoughts earlier as to some reasons I think it is, but I'd like to see the Government/Police forces talk more openly about the gender and ideas/concepts around that as to why. I know they do behind the scenes, but it's not always addressed much in public.

I don't know enough to talk about the channels of propaganda, and while online/social media will be a big influence, I still think local communities/local preachers (imams/priests or w/e your ideology calls a prominent speaker) play a massive part. It's not just about focussing on those with the aptitude to actually act out/attack, it's also about looking at radicalization of minds. The hardest thing to deal with, as by in large we cannot and do not restrict peoples freedoms for thought-crime. Said "thought crime" spreading through hundreds of men, many of whom fantasise about their lives having meaning, such as god and their people idolising them as warriors/soldiers, will end up leading to some of them going from simply thinking something, to actually acting it out.

The recent cases I've followed have generally seen people withdrawing from the local community rather than being inspired by it. I will be shocked and deeply saddened if there is a local preacher who played a part here...

Because that isn't the Manchester I know, and I lived in one of the bits that was the most Muslim. I was just back in Longsight last October, and every one I interacted with was friendly and welcoming. That's my Manchester. That's the place I called home for five years (and would likely still call home if not for falling in love with an American).

 

[UtterlyPerplexed]

I can't even seem to string coherent sentences today, much less do my work as usual. We all feared the worst when we realised who the overwhelming majority of the audience attending a fully booked Ariana Grande concert would be, but to see two confirmed victims so far really hits it home. I'm just a hop and a skip away from Arndale, which shortly before experienced a brief jolt of panic when police arrived to temporarily close the place up, and that did nothing to calm everyone down and relieve the tension in the air. I've also had to tightly embrace a friend because her sister and young nieces very narrowly missed out on acquiring the tickets for that very concert. But still, we're remaining defiant and determined to carry on with the day as normal.

And speaking of Arndale, at least this Tweet has been able to give me a brief chuckle. https://twitter.com/Hasselschmuck/status/866982319055409152

 

[Diancecht]

It's worth remembering that ISIS themselves have repeatedly stated that the primary reason they do these things is that we are not Muslim, and that foreign intervention is always secondary.

It's difficult to stomach but this is the new normal now, unless geopolitics allows for a complete and total obliteration militarily.

But they kill more muslims than christians. Living in Turkey, I witnessed this first hand.

 

[SlipperyFishes]

I expect a second or third generation immigrant. Seems to be the pattern in these things.

It'll likely be some young man, who was a loner, radicalized by online propaganda, most likely.

That seems to be the profile these days.

Do we forget the murder of MP Jo Cox so quickly? Home grown terrorism from the far-right.

 

[Darkstorne]

I cried today, the posts on twitter are heartbreaking.




What kind of mentality must you have to hurt innocent people and bring religion into it?

It's normal for religion. Every religion ever. History regularly repeats itself but at least this time it's a minority of a religion instead of enforced by the religion as a whole (like the Christian Crusades). Fanaticism and belief in doctrines often leads to bloodshed.

I'm really concerned for Muslims living in the UK today if this ISIS claim checks out =/

 

[neurosisxeno]

Terrorism will always win. It's just too damn effective.

Terrorism never wins actually. we may have more restrictions because of their actions but for the most part our freedom is not gone. We can still say what we want, listen to any music we want, worship whatever deity we want, and dress how we want. Terrorism has not, and will not, ever be as effective as they want it to be.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

But they kill more muslims than christians. Living in Turkey, I witnessed this first hand.

They don't consider you to be Muslims either, that's their whole MO.

 

[guggnichso]

This thread seriously took a bad turn some pages back. You DO NOT weight atrocities against each other. They do not cancel each other out.

The bombing of civilians by the US military does not make this attack ok or understandable.

The Dresden firestorm does not make the holocaust ok.

The genocide on native americans does not make the holocaust ok.

And so on and so on. Look, this is a cheap rhetoric tactic used by especially Neo Nazis here in germany trying to normalize the holocaust. It's bullshit. Every atrocity committed by humans regardless of race, religion or origin has to be viewed by itself and has to be shamed and remembered by itself.

 

[MilkyJoe]

I think they only do that if it's someone who has been tasked with an attack or made some kind of video loyalty pledge.


English Amaq statement:

https://twitter.com/siteintelgroup/status/866987377520193540

Usual nonsensical shit. bunch of simpletons sound just as archaic as their beliefs.

 

[Jazzem]

BBC News

Article on the community response, usually overlooked in favour of being right on the internet about anything other than what actually happened to real people.

Thanks for that, in light of awful events it's always heartwarming to see incredible empathy and generosity on display Hoping the wonderful response from the Muslim community in particular helps shed accusations sent their way.

 

[Skinpop]

Erm no, just no if you kill someone's child they are not going to give a shit whether it was intentional/unintentional or whether it was an accident/on purpose. All they are going to care about is you killed their child and they will hate you for it.

this just isn't true. I have some semi-personal experience with this kind of an incident.
A friend of a friend of mine who drives an ice cream truck accidentally ran over and killed a toddler after selling ice cream to a family. The child had somehow crawled under the truck without anyone noticing. Obviously they aren't exactly friends but charges were never pressed and from what I know there was never any resentment between them. Just an unbelievably sad accident that not only robbed the future of the child but also completely destroyed him as a person. To claim the feelings of the family would have been the same if he purposely murdered the kid is such an unbelievably nasty and horrible thing to say.

 

[plagiarize]

Do we forget the murder of MP Jo Cox so quickly? Home grown terrorism from the far-right.

Check my other posts in this thread.

I do not forget... and have been actively trying to shut down anyone trying to label this as 'Islamic'.

But a profile is building of the so called 'homegrown' terrorist, and generally it seems to happen despite their community not because of it. I think it's important to see the profile for what I believe it to be:

Lost individuals, not 'true believers'.

 

[Ashes]

But they kill more muslims than christians. Living in Turkey, I witnessed this first hand.

Only the west (and the east) and the Muslim world accepts the victims as Muslims, daesh do not.

 

[Audioboxer]

The recent cases I've followed have generally seen people withdrawing from the local community rather than being inspired by it. I will be shocked and deeply saddened if there is a local preacher who played a part here...

Because that isn't the Manchester I know, and I lived in one of the bits that was the most Muslim. I was just back in Longsight last October, and every one I interacted with was friendly and welcoming. That's my Manchester. That's the place I called home for five years (and would likely still call home if not for falling in love with an American).

Your concept of local community is rightfully what is positive and shapes forward-thinking integration, but every single large city will have its underbelly and entails things you do not see on a day to day living. Unless you are a member of some of these mosques, or congregations, or places of worship, you have little understanding of what may get preached in there. This is obviously largely dealing with religious dealings (opposed to drug trafficking/petty crime and so on). Every City these days usually has many places of worship for all faiths.

At any place of worship, no matter the religion, intolerance can be preached to grow seedlings of belief. Just think about how many places will speak out against LGBT concerns, views of other religions, views of sexual conduct, view of women being subservient to their men, views of party lifestyles, etc. Religion often tries to act as a moral code for living life. Most people will take what they will from such teachings, and keep it to their private life. However, in comes the reasons and thought for why men, mainly a lot of young men, can take moral judgements others hear but go from just thinking something to actively wanting to rule by the sword. As in, violence and killing of what they deem immoral. Which is where I think martyrdom plays a huge rule. Most religions, even Islam, speaks against suicide, but the concept of martyrdom often transcends that as it views you as a literal warrior or soldier of God who will be rewarded.

For young men "stuck in a rut" or not making much of their lives, the allure to becoming a "hero" seems to flip them over from simply thinking to doing. Look at the language used by propaganda and groups like ISIS to talk about these terrorists. It's like they become famous heroes overnight. When you think little of your life, or are full of resentment, anger, hostility and crazy intolerant thoughts and people will seemingly call you a hero and a God will reward you for killing, well, some clearly think that will make meaning of their shitty pathetic lives.

 

[Jumeira]

I expect a second or third generation immigrant. Seems to be the pattern in these things.

It'll likely be some young man, who was a loner, radicalized by online propaganda, most likely.

That seems to be the profile these days.

Not immigrants if they're generations in, but I understand you meant of minority ethnicity.

 

[keuja]

Pure fucking evil. Whoever did this does not even deserve the dignity of a funeral.

 

[plagiarize]

BBC News

Article on the community response, usually overlooked in favour of being right on the internet about anything other than what actually happened to real people.

Thank you for this.

I knew Manchester would do themselves proud in response to this awful and senseless attack.

 

[Lakitu]

Pure fucking evil. Whoever did this does not even deserve the dignity of a funeral.

Indeed, feed him to some animal for their dinner.

 

[plagiarize]

Not immigrants if they're generations in, but I understand you meant of minority ethnicity.

It's a common phrase, at least here in the US. Apologies if it isn't standard language in the UK. I have lost all semblance of where my turns of phrase come from. Second generation just means that they were born to parents who immigrated into the UK, rather than being born elsewhere.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

Not immigrants if they're generations in, but I understand you meant of minority ethnicity.

'X generation immigrant' is not an uncommon phrasing used to indicate how far back the migrant ancestry goes. So in this case, they're expecting someone with either a parent or grandparent (possibly plural) who was the migrant into Britain.

 

[Budi]

BBC News

Article on the community response, usually overlooked in favour of being right on the internet about anything other than what actually happened to real people.

The heinous act itself has got me angry, but the community response has finally got me teary. Stay strong Manchester and keep together! It's reassuring to see goodness in people especially at times like this.

 

[Dr. Benton Quest]

Yeah, because those ISIS fighters intend to kill children. Including Muslim children in Muslim countries. If we weren't killing ISIS, they would've killed lots more than they have. Potentially spreading, and taking over more territory than they have. Leading to lots more children's deaths.

It's a morbid reality that deaths of innocent people is collateral damage. ISIS is an international threat, and without necessary suppression, they could eventually become a real danger to society as a whole.

Let's kill children to keep ISIS from killing children.

...wat?

 

[Jumeira]

Indeed, feed him to some animal for their dinner.

The terrorists that attacked Mumbai had their burials rejected by Muslims when thier bodies were sent for burial, stating they are not Muslim.

Cremating them would be fitting, considering that would be an act paganism that they detest so much. I do need to calm myself from fantasizing about inhumane treatment of these pieces of shits, but it's hard.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

These guys need to slowly give away power to their people, so the institutions and society can adapt to it. We didn't go from kingdoms to democracy in one go in Europe also. It went slowly, with setbacks and fights. But it is now at least relatively stable because the people are used to it.

Isn't that what's currently happening in Syria? But the west is justifiably terrified of Assad leaving altogether, because radical group could assume control, either through force (ISIS) or elections (Hamas).

The biggest revolution to come in the Muslim world is accepting secular democracy and freedom of religion, but Islam itself has built in protections against such meddling.

 

[GoldenCrow]

The North West news presenter is such a twat.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

Yeah, because those ISIS fighters intend to kill children. Including Muslim children in Muslim countries. If we weren't killing ISIS, they would've killed lots more than they have. Potentially spreading, and taking over more territory than they have. Leading to lots more children's deaths.

It's a morbid reality that deaths of innocent people is collateral damage. ISIS is an international threat, and without necessary suppression, they could eventually become a real danger to society as a whole.

ISIS would have never existed weren't it for a unwarranted Iraq war that created a power vacuum. There is plenty of historic proof that you can't really bomb away this problem.

Kill off ISIS and another group will form as long as there is a power vacuum in the ME that is tolerated and sometimes even encouraged by western powers in cooperation with the Saudis.

 

[Ray Wonder]

Let's kill children to keep ISIS from killing children.

...wat?

Now you're getting it. 🙌

War isn't perfect, sadly kids have always died in them.

ISIS would have never existed weren't it for a unwarranted Iraq war that created a power vacuum. There is plenty of historic proof that you can't really bomb away this problem.

Kill off ISIS and another group will form as long as there is a power vacuum in the ME that is tolerated and sometimes even encouraged by western powers in cooperation with the Saudis.

Oh yeah, for sure, and I have no idea how to completely stop them. I know that we need to suppress them, and not let them run wild, without intervention though.

 

[Audioboxer]

Update from the ambulance service

Posted at 13:35

Twelve children under the age of 16 were among the 59 casualties taken to hospital after the terror attack at Manchester Arena, says medical director of North West Ambulance Service David Ratcliffe.

Eight-year-old Saffie Rose Roussos from Leyland was killed in the Manchester suicide attack, Lancashire County Council has said.

Chris Upton, headteacher at Tarleton Community Primary School, said: "News of Saffie's death in this appalling attack has come as a tremendous shock to all of us and I would like to send our deepest condolences to all of her family and friends.

"The thought that anyone could go out to a concert and not come home is heartbreaking.

"Saffie was simply a beautiful little girl in every aspect of the word.

"She was loved by everyone and her warmth and kindness will be remembered fondly. Saffie was quiet and unassuming with a creative flair.

"Our focus is now on helping pupils and staff cope with this shocking news and we have called in specialist support from Lancashire County Council to help us do that.

"We are a tight-knit school and wider community and will give each other the support that we need at this difficult time."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-manchester-40007967

 

[xequalsy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-40010376?ocid=socialflow_twitter

Some utterly disgusting attention seekers. Awful to think they are piggy backing on this.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

ISIS would have never existed weren't it for a unwarranted Iraq war that created a power vacuum. There is plenty of historic proof that you can't really bomb away this problem.

Saddam Hussein's regime killed more people than the entire ISIS death toll to date by an order of magnitude - see the Al-Anfal campaign, the Kurdish genocide, and the Iran-Iraq war. Calling ousting him 'unwarranted' is an insult to those he slaughtered.

The failure of the Iraq war was the rebuilding process. The US was willing to pay for the war but not what came after.