Support NeoGAF

[SpaceWolf]

Mike Cernovich is the son of two probably very embarrassed parents.

"Embarrassed".

 

[Preezy]

Can't stop thinking about how desperate the parents of the victims must be feeling. If my child was killed in a terrorist explosion I'd probably go insane with the grief. It's just so horrific.

 

[Xando]

Mike Cernovich‏
@Cernovich

Manchester terrorist Salman Abedi was the son of Libyan refugees.

8:53 AM - 23 May 2017

Mike Cernovich (born November 17, 1977) is an American social media personality, writer, and conspiracy theorist. Often described as part of the alt-right,[6] he describes himself as "new right"[7] and an "American nationalist.

fuck off with that source

 

[plagiarize]

yeah, pls unfollow that alt-right piece of actual shit.

He also tweeted "Little girls are dying because men are not saying what needs to be said."

He's fucking blaming people like me for this. And he can fuck right off with it.

 

[Kinyou]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/23/salman-abedi-named-manchester-suicide-bomber-know/

"Born in Manchester in 1994, the second youngest of four children his parents were Libyan refugees who came to the UK to escape the Gaddafi regime."

I just don't get how someone could develop such hatred for the very country that accepted him and his parents when they were on the run.

 

[excelsiorlef]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/23/salman-abedi-named-manchester-suicide-bomber-know/

"Born in Manchester in 1994, the second youngest of four children his parents were Libyan refugees who came to the UK to escape the Gaddafi regime."

Thanks

That's a real source.

 

[RinsFury]

Mike Cernovich‏
@Cernovich

Manchester terrorist Salman Abedi was the son of Libyan refugees.

8:53 AM - 23 May 2017

Ugh. Please don't quote that piece of shit.

 

[plagiarize]

I just don't get how someone could develop such hatred for the very country that accepted him and his parents when they were on the run.

It seems to keep happening. It's a real problem we need to look at and hopefully find better ways of tackling. And by 'look at' obviously I don't mean by pretending to be big boys and calling it 'Islamic extremism', when it seems to be a much more specific problem than that.

 

[maabus1999]

I just don't get how someone could develop such hatred for the very country that accepted him and his parents when they were on the run.

Most likely a combination of mental conditions similar to mass school shooters in the US may have and evil propaganda on the Internet.

 

[Scoops]

Ugh. Please don't quote that piece of shit.

fuck off with that source

yeah, pls unfollow that alt-right piece of actual shit.

Why are we posting tweets from random people?

Oh good we citing Gamergaters now?

Mike Cernovich is the son of two probably very embarrassed parents. At least I hope they're embarrassed by him.

Fuck him.

Whether he's real or not, someone wrote those words. Whether they think them just, funny, or get off on being provocative, that person needs to do some major soul searching.

Didin't even know who that guy was. Others are reporting it too.

 

[GreyWind]

Mike Cernovich‏
@Cernovich

Manchester terrorist Salman Abedi was the son of Libyan refugees.

8:53 AM - 23 May 2017

BBC just confirmed

 

[Flo_Evans]

Most likely a combination of mental conditions similar to mass school shooters in the US may have and evil propaganda on the Internet.

I think the perpetrators are in a similar mindset sure. The difference is AFAIK there is no group trying to actively recruit and push school shooters into doing it.

 

[plagiarize]

I think the perpetrators are in a similar mindset sure. The difference is AFAIK there is no group trying to actively recruit and push school shooters into doing it.

We don't yet know if he was recruited, or if he acted on his own. I get that your point still stands either way though.

 

[maabus1999]

I think the perpetrators are in a similar mindset sure. The difference is AFAIK there is no group trying to actively recruit and push school shooters into doing it.

Agreed that is why I mentioned the evil propaganda part. It gives them a "reason" for their evil insanity.

 

[StayDead]

I just don't get how someone could develop such hatred for the very country that accepted him and his parents when they were on the run.

Propaganda is a powerful tool.

 

[Falchion]

Really awful, especially targeting kids.

 

[Hazzuh]

Buzzfeed article on US officials leaking sensitive information:

BRUSSELS — UK and European intelligence officials are expressing concern over the fact that much of the information that emerged in the wake of the Manchester bombing has been sourced back to US officials.

The information first came in the hours after the attack — including a US official saying that the leading theory was that the attack was carried out by a suicide bomber — and culminated in report by CBS News and the Associated Press that cited US officials claiming to identify the suspect who is believed to have blown himself up during an Ariana Grande concert at Manchester Arena, killing at least 22 people. The Manchester police would only later confirm the name of the suspect to the press, 22-year-old Salman Abedi and the arrest of another 23-year-old suspected of being connected with the attack.

One Belgian counter-terrorism official who spoke with BuzzFeed News between a series of meetings about the Manchester attack confirmed the discomfort felt in European intelligence circles.

"It happens sometimes when a larger partner like America assists on an investigation like this one," said the official, who asked not to be identified because he lacks permission to speak with the press. "You know you are trading the additional resources they bring for a chance of increased leaks. In this case, I suspect the Brits are livid — I know we would be — to have a suspect ID'd before they're ready and obviously the recent performance of the Trump administration on leaking sensitive information can't be far from anyone's mind if they examine [the situation]."

Even US officials were frustrated by the leak. Some called the US decision to release information about an ally’s investigation before even that nation had released it “unprofessional.” Others said that if it were the US investigating an attack, they could expect the UK to not release information about the case.

“The least we can do is give them that same respect,” one US official told BuzzFeed News.

Although it is unlikely the incident will hurt information sharing and coordination between the closely-linked UK and US intelligence services, one American expert questioned why US officials would leak in the first place.

“Why get in the way of what they are trying to do?” asked Thomas Joscelyn, senior fellow at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies. “Follow their lead unless there is some good reason not to. The UK made a conscious decision to not release the suspect’s name. they have a good reason for doing that and US officials should probably wait for the UK to come out with specific details.”

The leaks come at a time when trust between the US intelligence services and others has been strained by the behavior of President Donald Trump, who shared classified details with Russian officials during an Oval Office meeting earlier this month.

Shashank Joshi, a research fellow at the security think tank RUSI, told BuzzFeed News British authorities may need to address the apparent leaks by US intelligence sources of information obtained from the UK.

"UK officials will have other priorities at the moment, but when the dust settles they will be concerned by the way in which British information was leaked by US officials, sometimes hours ahead of its confirmation," Joshi said. "Police and intelligence officials would have had their reasons to hold back on key details, such as casualty figures and the method of attack, but this was impossible in a more international, free-wheeling media environment."

Joshi added it was “dismaying” that US media had published — citing US intelligence sources — a suspect’s name at an early phase of investigation, but said it was not unprecedented for this to happen, citing examples including the naming of Mohammed Emwazi as the ISIS fighter known as “Jihadi John.”

Joshi said the day’s disclosures from US intelligence and military were “beyond the usual,” especially “given that most reputable US outlets consult with authorities as to whether publication will have damaging consequences.”

 

[Heshinsi]

Some anger in the UK that US officials are leaking details shared with them by UK police to the US media. It is rather disrespectful to be honest.

They did the same shit to us here in Canada when we had the Parliament shooting.

 

[Faddy]

I just don't get how someone could develop such hatred for the very country that accepted him and his parents when they were on the run.

That the country you fled to has been complicit in the almost the complete extinguishing of Libya as a nation.

 

[groansey]

Buzzfeed article on US officials leaking sensitive information:

Yeah this is more disgusting than some moron making jokes on Twitter. Leaking the identity of the perpetrator before the investigators are ready jeopardises the investigation and the prevention of future attacks.

 

[plagiarize]

Buzzfeed article on US officials leaking sensitive information:

This was definitely a curious thing to see unfolding in real time.

Greater Manchester Police's latest statement:

<3 Manchester.

 

[Xando]

Buzzfeed article on US officials leaking sensitive information:

Yeah was thinking about making a thread about this.

Pretty shitty behavior of them leaking this while the UK officials are still trying to get shit done

 

[Heshinsi]

I just don't get how someone could develop such hatred for the very country that accepted him and his parents when they were on the run.

Because they're losers whith absolutely no value for human life. They get approached by other losers higher up in the food chain, and then convinced that they can make something out of their pathetic lives by killing people. Always interesting, that the preachers and recruiters are never the ones going off to die for their "beliefs".

 

[Lord Frieza]

I just don't get how someone could develop such hatred for the very country that accepted him and his parents when they were on the run.

If he was born in the UK or was very young when he moved if he was born yet, so I doubt he had the same kind of thought process his parents did in regards to that

 

[Dash27]

That the country you fled to has been complicit in the almost the complete extinguishing of Libya as a nation.

Is that what he thought? Is that what ISIS was telling him or he came to this on his own.

You'd think he would know it was Ghadaffi, who his family fled from, the state sponsored terrorism and various other nonsense going on there.

 

[KZObsessed]

The bomber, Salman Ramadan Abedi, grew up in the same area I did.

Pathetic dipshit.

 

[jaxpunk]

He also tweeted "Little girls are dying because men are not saying what needs to be said."

He's fucking blaming people like me for this. And he can fuck right off with it.

What won't you say?

 

[msdstc]

I think the perpetrators are in a similar mindset sure. The difference is AFAIK there is no group trying to actively recruit and push school shooters into doing it.

School shooters don't invoke the name of their savior unless !mentally unstable. How come were vflat out denying that these people genuinely believe this is what their god calls for.

 

[Pankratous]

First Minister of Scotland statement.

Presiding Officer,

It is with great sadness that I rise to speak today.

Last night in Manchester we witnessed a horrific attack on innocent people enjoying a music concert.

My thoughts, those of this Parliament - indeed, the thoughts of all the people of Scotland - are with those who have lost loved ones or sustained injuries in this dreadful atrocity.

There can be nothing more cowardly than attacking children and young people enjoying a fun night out.

Across Scotland we stand in solidarity with the people of Manchester – a great and proud city with which so many people in Scotland share a close affinity.

I have this morning written to Andy Burnham, the Mayor of Manchester, offering the condolences of the Scottish people and pledging any possible practical support that the Scottish Government or any of our agencies can provide.

We also express our gratitude to the emergency services who continue to work to ensure that people in Manchester and around the country are safe – and whose dedication and bravery, running towards danger as others run away, stands in such sharp contrast to the cowardice of those who carry out such atrocities.

Shortly after we received the first substantive reports of the incident, in the early hours of this morning, the Scottish Government’s Resilience Room was activated.

At 8.30 this morning, I chaired a meeting of the Resilience Committee, which was attended by the Deputy First Minister, the Cabinet Secretary for Justice, the Lord Advocate and senior officers from Police Scotland. In the last half hour I have since received a further update from Police Scotland and will chair a further meeting of the Resilience Committee later today.

The Scottish Government and Police Scotland have been liaising closely with colleagues in the UK Government and with Police colleagues in England and Wales throughout the t night and during today.

I was also updated by the National Security Adviser earlier this morning.

At this point, as has been confirmed, 22 people have tragically lost their lives and 59 have been injured. Many of them no doubt very seriously.

In the last hour, an eight year old girl has been named as one of the fatalities.

Presiding Officer, we know there will be much more heartbreak like that to face in the days ahead.

Currently, we are aware of four people who have presented at hospital here in Scotland. Two have already been discharged and I understand that a third is likely to be discharged during the course of today. Indeed it is my information that none of their injuries are life threatening.

Police Scotland are also in contact with and offering support to the families of Laura MacIntyre and Eilidh MacLeod, the two young girls from Barra who are still unaccounted for having attended the concert last night.

It is hard for any of us to imagine the anguish that their families are going through right now. They are in our thoughts and the Scottish Government and Police Scotland will do all we can to ensure that they have all the support that they need.

Now I must stress that at this stage we cannot be sure that there are no other Scots affected - but we continue to liaise closely with Police Scotland to gather information and provide all appropriate support.

What we do know is that there may be some people travelling home today who will have witnessed events last night.

Therefore, as part of Police Scotland's efforts to assist with the ongoing investigation, they will be present at motorway service stations and working with the British Transport Police at major train stations, to identify any possible witnesses returning to Scotland from Manchester.

Presiding Officer, last night’s attack – as you and others have said – was particularly cruel in its targeting of young people enjoying a pop concert, an event that for many of them will have been looking forward to for months.

That is why it is my priority, working with Police Scotland, to ensure that we offer reassurance, but also to ensure that all appropriate protective and precautionary measures are being taken.

Now it is important to emphasise that at this stage the security threat level remains unchanged, at severe.

I also want to stress that, at this time, there is no intelligence of any increased threat or risk to Scotland

However, as a precautionary measure, Police Scotland have increased security at key locations such as transport hubs and city centres.

There has also been an increase in the number of armed police and armed response vehicles being deployed.

Police Scotland will keep these arrangements under review, as well as the arrangements for security at the various upcoming events we know about over the next few days.

These events range from the small daily events and celebrations that make up the very fabric of our society to large scale football matches, marathons and VIP events. Police Scotland is looking very closely at every event and the security around them.

This will include reviewing every single event due to take place over the next 14 days to ensure that a consistent and appropriate approach is taken across Scotland. For example, a full review of the Scottish Cup Final will be taking place with the SFA to ensure that there is an appropriate deployment of police officers.

This is in addition to the work that will be done to ensure public reassurance around the night time economy and crowded places more generally.

I am being regularly briefed and updated on the police response and I am sure the public will draw assurance from the substantial uplift of visible policing on the streets.

However, I would stress, as others have done, and it is important to do, that such measures are precautionary.

My message to the public is that they should also remain vigilant, and report any concerns they have to the police – but they should also go about their everyday business as normal.

Last night’s attack was particularly cruel in its targeting of young people enjoying a pop concert, an event that for many of them will have been looking forward to for months.

That they should have been confronted with such horror is utterly heartbreaking.

There will also be many other young people across the country who will be seeing on the news and social media today the kind of images that we wish they never had to see. And many young people may feel particularly vulnerable at this time.

This is a time to ensure we talk to our children, at home, at school and when we hear them talking amongst their friends. We have been in touch with Young Scot this morning, as well as with Education Scotland and local authorities to provide guidance and support to help with those conversations.

Young Scot have issued the details of an information line which offers a safe space for any young person in Scotland to make contact and get information.

They are also developing an online resource with key information and content to help meet young people’s needs, emphasising the importance of respecting other people and their opinions, the emotional impact of this event and how to differentiate between accurate and false information.

We know that terrorists and extremists seek to divide us and destroy our way of life.

As human beings, we cannot comprehend the twisted motivations that lead people to carry out such atrocities, particularly when they target children and young people in such a callous way.

Our best response now – and always – is to stand firm, together, with determination and in solidarity, to make clear to those who seek to undermine our values, target our children and destroy our way of life, that they will not succeed. Not now and not ever.

There are, Presiding Officer, many people today suffering pain and grief that we can scarcely imagine. And there are others who will still be consumed by worry and uncertainty about their loved ones.

Let us hold them firmly in our hearts, today and in the difficult days that lie ahead.

Scottish GAF, some useful tidbits in there if you have kids who want a safe space to talk about any of this.

 

[plagiarize]

What won't you say?

I won't blame the religion of Islam for this. That's what he's talking about.

 

[superdeluxe]

No parent should ever have to lose their children. This breaks my heart

 

[msdstc]

What won't you say?

Him and others refuse to acknowledge that the religion and ssoe of its translations are calling for this .

 

[Portugeezer]

Didin't even know who that guy was. Others are reporting it too.

More anger towards him than towards the terrorist.

 

[GameAddict411]

Because they're losers whith absolutely no value for human life. They get approached by other losers higher up in the food chain, and then convinced that they can make something out of their pathetic lives by killing people. Always interesting, that the preachers and recruiters are never the ones going off to die for their "beliefs".

To be frank, you have a very naive view on the matter. Despite what an horrendous thing this person did, he must have rationalized it somehow. This is where mental illnesses come into play along other problems. He might have been living a peaceful life in Manchester but it doesn't mean it was not problematic. People who are vulnerable are easy to manipulate. We still don't exactly know the motives just yet.

 

[plagiarize]

More anger towards him than towards the terrorist.

You are going to need to back that up.

 

[Kurtofan]

I just don't get how someone could develop such hatred for the very country that accepted him and his parents when they were on the run.

fake news, conspiracy theories and half truths shape a lot of minds.

 

[Jumeira]

I just don't get how someone could develop such hatred for the very country that accepted him and his parents when they were on the run.

I mean I'm not excusing this cunt but I can't imagine what it's like growing up today as a Muslim kid, there's so much resentment online which kids tend to believe is thier whole world, it's quite easy to get swept up in hate online and at school. There was no such thing as Jihadist when I grew up, but I fear for kids of similar background growing up being told they're awful people.

 

[jetjevons]

Yeah this is more disgusting than some moron making jokes on Twitter. Leaking the identity of the perpetrator before the investigators are ready jeopardises the investigation and the prevention of future attacks.

It is politically motivated and totally reprehensible. It could jeaprodize the investigation or worse.

 

[msdstc]

fake news, conspiracy theories and half truths shape a lot of minds.

Oh so religion?

 

[Beefy]

Geraldo Rivera making up shit on Twitter

 

[plagiarize]

Oh so religion?

The police leading the investigation are calling for this sort of shit not to happen right now. Incase you missed that earlier.

 

[Darkstorne]

As I've gotten older I've begun to move away from what I'd have say were my teenage atheism days. Railing against my parent's religion and religion in general. Funnily enough going into a field of science, psychology, has actually helped me be more well-adjusted as a person to the reality of human life. Which includes religion, philosophy and consistent questions about our existence/afterlife. I may still believe it's untrue (religion/God), but I have better understandings of it all and history rather than just "religion is dumb". Although I am a bit older than some students because I attempted to study a course prior which didn't work out. Sometimes age passing in general just leads to everyone being more well-rounded.

Without going into pages of debate, religion will always largely be what the individuals make of it. Since we evolved there have been atrocities committed in the name of nearly every "mainstream" religion out there. There will continue to be. Yes, we may well be at a time where one religion is committing far more of the atrocities of the world than the others. You'll see people in this very thread though invoke how history may have been hundreds of years ago (The Crusades or what crimes in the names of Christianity and Catholicsm have been up to). It can all be true without it being a competition of "who is worse". History is important to learn from, but you also need to try and sort out things that are happening in the present.

These battles against intolerance, division, violence, and so on have to be handled in more responsive and adult ways than to just try to eradicate religion. Being that authoritarian with secularism has been attempted in history... with the mass loss of life. Just like it happens when one sole religion tries to force itself on everyone. Freedom of religion is as important as freedom of speech. A civil and humane society needs the free exchange of beliefs and ideas, and for people to be able to choose. When you try to take agency away by force it often ends in mass conflict and death. The only place it should always be separated from is Government. Otherwise, it is a form of preferential treatment and Governments can abuse power/religions when in power abuse Government.

However, that does mean, as it always will, religion is open to criticism just as much as scientific theories are. This is where we sometimes falter in the West, getting caught up putting religion on a pedestal and not wanting to offend. Whereas we have no issues criticising people who say the earth is flat, we might think twice about anyone saying evolution is false. Or as it happens to transpire in the West we sometimes exoticise Islam because it has the label of a "minority" here, whereas we're more familiar criticising the majority two, Christianity/Catholicism. Examples of people not wanting to offend are mainly just humans being human and trying to navigate life, not everyone who tries to be polite is some apologist needing flak. Where zero tolerance really needs to be unified around is when it's not about evolution being true or not, but intent to harm, kill or abuse people in psychical and mental ways to enforce your doctrine. That is happening today, and it probably will forever, but no, it doesn't help when people really do try to apologise for shit that needs to be recognised for what it is and attempts at sorting it out need to be discussed.

tldr; Religion isn't going away, and it can be just as important in society as the free exchange of ideas/speech.

This is an amazing post.

The only reason religion is fading away in the west is because we don't force it on people, and most importantly because we also don't try to stifle it. Repress people's views and opinions, especially in a matter religious people view as more important than life itself, and you'll run into extreme reactions. We need to get governments and education systems into a place that teaches both science and religion, allowing everyone to make up their own minds, and not judge anyone one way or another. Religion will never vanish because spirituality is a big part of being human and we all get in touch with that through various means. But by not enforcing or persecuting religion we should be able to reach the sort of happy balance we (mostly) have in the west.

 

[msdstc]

The police leading the investigation are calling for this sort of shit not to happen right now. Incase you missed that earlier.

What kind of shit?

 

[plagiarize]

What kind of shit?

Now more than ever, it is vital that our diverse communities in Greater Manchester stand together and do not tolerate hate.

Feeding into shit that causes friction between diverse communities.

 

[Budi]

Feeding into shit that causes friction between diverse communities.

Exactly why religion should be kept away from it, human decency, good will and love brings these people together. Not their different ideologies.

 

[Faddy]

Is that what he thought? Is that what ISIS was telling him or he came to this on his own.

You'd think he would know it was Ghadaffi, who his family fled from, the state sponsored terrorism and various other nonsense going on there.

I don't know if that is what he thought but I can see why a Libyan refugee would be angry at Britain and other Western coalition partners for the situation in a country that is now facing partition.

And while Gaddafi was an Islamic extremist he was a very specific kind of extremist that hated both Shia and Sunni sects. And for some people the State Sponsored terrorism is the Western arming of rebel groups and supporting airstrikes which deepened and lengthened the civil war. Libya is as much as a mire as Syria with conflicting coalitions and no clear end in sight.

These situations are ripe for making people lurch to extremism as an easy solution or just to feel like they are combating their perceived injustices.

To say that Britain gave him a home and he should be grateful takes a very narrow and naive view of the world.

 

[Darkstorne]

Exactly why religion should be kept away from it, human decency, good will and love brings these people together. Not their different ideologies.

All of which are key parts of religion, and religion/spirituality is a big part of being human. Prayer might not do anything at all for example, but the amount of goodwill and genuine compassion poured into prayer shouldn't be ignored.

 

[plagiarize]

Exactly why religion should be kept away from it, human decency, good will and love brings these people together. Not their different ideologies.

Asking for diverse groups to stand together, isn't asking for diverse groups to abandon the things that make them different.

If you can't understand why you don't want angry, scared, and upset people finger pointing, while trying to figure out if there are other terrorists involved, and still trying to deal with the casualties you have, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[yyzjohn]

Stuff like this is so depressing. Thoughts go out to all the victims family and friends. We'll never eradicate evil in this world.

 

[Budi]

All of which are key parts of religion, and religion/spirituality is a big part of being human. Prayer might not do anything at all for example, but the amount of goodwill and genuine compassion poured into prayer shouldn't be ignored.

Ofcourse prayer is a beautiful gesture and comes from a good place.

Asking for diverse groups to stand together, isn't asking for diverse groups to abandon the things that make them different.

If you can't understand why you don't want angry, scared, and upset people finger pointing, while trying to figure out if there are other terrorists involved, and still trying to deal with the casualties you have, then I don't know what to tell you.

I absolutely do, I was also here trying to tell people to calm down with the Islam accusations before we had more info. And that poster was talking about religion overall, not pointing out Islam specifically.

But yeah, I apologize for contributing to this kind of discussion in this thread when we already have more fitting thread for it. Except it singles out Islam and doesn't consider religion as a whole.