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[JC Sera]

Background Info
Edit: A good summary video.
good summary article by the NYT

Asylum Seekers/Detention has been a hot topic in Australia for the last decade. This year we saw the government put through the Border Force Act,

Under the Act, it is a criminal offence, punishable by imprisonment of up to two years, for any person working directly or indirectly for the Department of Immigration and Border Protection to reveal to the media or any other person or organisation (the only exceptions being the Immigration Department and other Commonwealth agencies, police, coroners) anything that happens in detention centres like Nauru and Manus Island.

and just recently a migration bill was put through which put through

Funding offshore detention is no longer illegal after the last minute migration bill was pushed through the senate this very evening. In the process, the Coalition and Labor combined to vote down mandatory reporting of abuse, access for the Human Rights Commission and the media and a three month time limit for detention.

These laws/acts/bills were put through by the government after the Human rights report "The Forgotten Children: National Inquiry into Children in Immigration Detention (2014)" was released, outlining physical, metal and sexual abuse of children in detention. The author of the report, Gillian Triggs, was bullied, hounded and asked to stand down after it was released.

So in summary, after a report on how children where being abused in detention centres was released, the government chose to hound the author, and the government and the opposition together chose to bring in laws which would;

• Silence whistleblowers with threat of arrest.
• Shut down mandatory reporting of abuse.
• Disallow media and the Human Rights Commission access to these detention centres.
• Voted down a three month time limit for detention.

Today
the Border Patrol act came into effect, and an open letter was released to the government and the public by 40 health workers and humanitarian staff to challenge the government on their atrocious laws.

Open letter regarding the Border Force Act 2015

Today the Border Force Act comes into force. It includes provision for a two-year jail sentence for “entrusted persons” such as ourselves if we continue to speak out about the deplorable state of human rights in immigration detention without the express permission of the minister for immigration and border protection. This strengthens the wall of secrecy which prevents proper public scrutiny.

We have advocated, and will continue to advocate, for the health of those for whom we have a duty of care, despite the threats of imprisonment, because standing by and watching sub-standard and harmful care, child abuse and gross violations of human rights is not ethically justifiable.

If we witness child abuse in Australia we are legally obliged to report it to child protection authorities. If we witness child abuse in detention centres, we can go to prison for attempting to advocate for them effectively. Internal reporting mechanisms such as they are have failed to remove children from detention; a situation that is itself recognised as a form of systematic child abuse.

Evidence of the devastating effects of institutional self-protection and blindness to child abuse has been presented before the current royal commission. We are determined not to collude with a system that repeats these same mistakes.

There are currently many issues which constitute a serious threat to the health of those in detention for whom we have a duty of care. The Department of Immigration and Border Protection is aware of these problems and has for years failed to address them adequately.We are aware that in publishing this letter we may be prosecuted under the Border Force Act and we challenge the department to prosecute so that these issues may be discussed in open court and in the full view of the Australian public.

The men and women who signed this letter in my eyes are heroes.

 

[Zaptruder]

Fuck the australian government really. They should be put into jail over this shit. I'd say liberal, but now labour have joined them in a race to the bottom. Fucking propogating human right abuses all over in our version of guantanamo (except somehow more racist, because the justification isn't even terrorism, it's BOAT PEOPLE).

 

[Dead Man]

Utterly disgraceful work by both major parties. Making the reporting of human rights issues illegal is one of the most heinous acts I can think of that our government has committed since I've been alive.

 

[DrSlek]

Puts the government in a difficult place. If they arrest these people they draw media attention to the abuses happening on Nauru, and the courts would likely throw the case out. If they do nothing their legislation becomes powerless.

Seriously...trying to fuck with the Hippocratic oath?

 

[Jintor]

Onya letter writers.

Fuck the government but especially fuck the opposition for this. You bland dipshit cowardly pieces of crap. I expect this from the government but you've proven yourselves to be Lib-lite (as if it weren't already apparent)

 

[Arksy]

Puts the government in a difficult place. If they arrest these people they draw media attention to the abuses happening on Nauru, and the courts would likely throw the case out. If they do nothing their legislation becomes powerless.

Seriously...trying to fuck with the Hippocratic oath?

I really want someone to be arrested, that way we can watch the legislation burn in the courts. Won't happen though, probably because the government knows it's really shaky.

This is the same government that fired a department worker for speaking out against the asylum seeker policies of the government and then quickly moved to settle the case by offering a decent chunk of money once he started the legal process on political freedom.

They know this shit's shaky.

 

[CrankyKong]

Australian voters are ultimately responsible.

 

[ICKE]

It is a tough situation and abuse can not be justified. On the other hand you have to understand that Australia has to secure its borders somehow, similar policies will probably take place in Europe if the refugee crisis continues to escalate.

 

[Opto]

You know shit's evil when you gotta gag people on the conditions they're seeing.

 

[cutmeamango]

Unskilled migration (and illegal) is a hard issue.

 

[Coriolanus]

It is a tough situation and abuse can not be justified. On the other hand you have to understand that Australia has to secure its borders somehow, similar policies will probably take place in Europe if the refugee crisis continues to escalate.

Oh? Why? Have they been swamped with immigrants and refugees as of late?

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

Oh? Why? Have they been swamped with immigrants and refugees as of late?

just googling it, they had 50k people arrive illegally over 4 years prior to this one.

1k people died in transit

costs were $10+ billion.

 

[Piecake]

Unskilled migration (and illegal) is a hard issue.

This aspect of it seems pretty simple to me. If you are not going to allow illegal immigrants and refugees into your country and decide to put them into detention centers until it can all be sorted out, then you are morally required to actually to provide them with decent treatment. Anything less just makes you a scum-sucking monster. Making it illegal for people to speak out against such abuse makes it worse.

 

[Coriolanus]

just googling it, they had 50k people arrive illegally over 4 years prior to this one.

1k people died in transit

costs were $10+ billion.

Source?

Also find it very fucking hard to believe that they spent 200k per illegal immigrant

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Australian voters are ultimately responsible.

Sadly so, but I have to wonder what the topic would look like if our allegedly centre left opposition showed any shred of leadership and didn't just cower before the racist bogan vote.

 

[Arksy]

Sadly so, but I have to wonder what the topic would look like if our allegedly centre left opposition showed any shred of leadership and didn't just cower before the racist bogan vote.

The ALP were the ones who came up with mandatory immigration detention.

 

[Bandini]

just googling it, they had 50k people arrive illegally over 4 years prior to this one.

1k people died in transit

costs were $10+ billion.

The cost was $200,000+ per immigrant? Where are you pulling these numbers from?

 

[Darren870]

This aspect of it seems pretty simple to me. If you are not going to allow illegal immigrants and refugees into your country and decide to put them into detention centers until it can all be sorted out, then you are morally required to actually to provide them with decent treatment. Anything less just makes you a scum-sucking monster. Making it illegal for people to speak out against such abuse makes it worse.

While I agree with what you are saying, why is it on Australia to do this? These illegal immigrants/refugrees are by passing many countries (or being turned away from them) and just heading down to Australia.

Then when they get there they have to be put somewhere. Then the government needs to find out if they are legit refugees or if they are just illegal immigrants. Most don't have any identification so then its onto the government to figure out where they came from. Which they like to take their sweet ass time on. Totally ridiculous the turn around time.

The new law is ridiculous as these "camps" shouldn't be treating people like crap. However, there needs to me some kind of 3rd party that processes these people and it can't be all on Australia to deal with.

 

[Jintor]

I can't imagine Indonesia is exactly pawing at the bit to be Australia's friend in that area right now though. Hell, I don't know if Australia has any credit with SE Asian countries in general given foreign policy over the last year or so.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

Source?

Also find it very fucking hard to believe that they spent 200k per illegal immigrant

http://finance.townhall.com/columnists/nickadams/2015/02/20/not-a-single-illegal-immigrant-in-7-months-in-australia-n1959773/page/full

wikipedia backs up the 50k number. Granted, if you read past the info I posted in the article, it seems pretty wacky. It was just the first link on google.

edit: here's another link talking about costs of housing/feeding of asylum seekers

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/welcome-asylum-seekers-chris-bowen-and-julia-gillards-ship-of-fortune/story-e6freuzr-1226273201568?nk=1596ab1cc1928cb185303c522f900d33

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/bn-to-keep-asylum-seekers-in-detention/story-e6freuzr-1226266204926

$1 billion not $10 billion according to this.

 

[A More Normal Bird]

It is a tough situation and abuse can not be justified. On the other hand you have to understand that Australia has to secure its borders somehow, similar policies will probably take place in Europe if the refugee crisis continues to escalate.

The borders are secure. Even at the peak of boat arrivals the borders were secure. Intercepting asylum seekers and processing them is not a lapse of security. Placing them in hellish conditions does not increase border security. Silencing dissent does not increase security.

 

[Skyzard]

Completely fucking ridiculous and disgraceful part of the law in the first place, good on these people.

 

[Arksy]

Most people in Australia don't mind the fact that mandatory immigration detention happens, it's more of a problem on how it happens.

Migrants are treated very poorly and some can spend long periods of time in mandatory detention, we're talking years. Mental health issues are widespread. Complaints of abuse are rife.

 

[Coriolanus]

http://finance.townhall.com/columnists/nickadams/2015/02/20/not-a-single-illegal-immigrant-in-7-months-in-australia-n1959773/page/full

wikipedia backs up the 50k number. Granted, if you read past the info I posted in the article, it seems pretty wacky. It was just the first link on google.

Wikipedia also specifies that the "illegals" are also "refugees" and that Australia has to take near 14k of them every year anyway, due to signing a UN Convention on the matter.

Wikipedia also specifies that in 2009-2010 alone the regular migration program received nearly 170k new folks. And that most illegal immigrants are people that overstay their visas, which means that they weren't originally illegal.

So yeah, might wanna disregard the article you linked. It's a hit piece.

To add to the hilarity, ABC sez most of the cost on immigrants is spent with detention.

 

[Darren870]

Most people in Australia don't mind the fact that mandatory immigration detention happens, it's more of a problem on how it happens.

Migrants are treated very poorly and some can spend long periods of time in mandatory detention, we're talking years. Mental health issues are widespread. Complaints of abuse are rife.

Yea I have no idea why it takes so long. The government always says that often they arrive with no papers or documentation so they have to determine if they are actual refuges or if they are just economic migrants.

However, it shouldn't take YEARS to process. I heard something on the news the other day that a pathetically low number was granted rights into Australia each year. Can't remember the number but was surprised it was low.

 

[Piecake]

While I agree with what you are saying, why is it on Australia to do this? These illegal immigrants/refugrees are by passing many countries (or being turned away from them) and just heading down to Australia.

Then when they get there they have to be put somewhere. Then the government needs to find out if they are legit refugees or if they are just illegal immigrants. Most don't have any identification so then its onto the government to figure out where they came from. Which they like to take their sweet ass time on. Totally ridiculous the turn around time.

The new law is ridiculous as these "camps" shouldn't be treating people like crap. However, there needs to me some kind of 3rd party that processes these people and it can't be all on Australia to deal with.

It sounds like you think that Australia is the only nation to deal with illegal immigration and refugees. Other countries seem to do okay and don't cause humanitarian crises and have to pass laws to cover up all the awful shit they are doing.

 

[Slackbladder]

Well, can't say I've ever had a high opinion of Australian politics and politicians. Perfectly justified opinion too by the looks of things.
Seem like a bunch of right nasty fuckers.

 

[Maximo]

Sure have gone downhill in the last few years.

 

[Coriolanus]

Well, can't say I've ever had a high opinion of Australian politics and politicians. Perfectly justified opinion too by the looks of things.
Seem like a bunch of right nasty fuckers.

Whatever would make you think that?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCVP2gvC32U

 

[Darren870]

It sounds like you think that Australia is the only nation to deal with illegal immigration and refugees. Other countries seem to do okay and don't cause humanitarian crises and have to pass laws to cover up all the awful shit they are doing.

Huh? Why would I think that? I know there are plenty of countries that deal with illegal immigration.

Wasn't the US just criticized for sending plane loads of Woman and Children back to Honduras?

I said the law was ridiculous. I also said the conditions were redicuouls and the time lines were ridiculous. Its just the government dragging their feet. I also said it can't be all on Australia to have to deal with everyone that comes in, especially when neighboring countries point the boats in the direction of Australia.

 

[Komo]

Oh? Why? Have they been swamped with immigrants and refugees as of late?

At this rate, Australia's going to have a tough time getting any immigrants in at all, legal or otherwise with the current government

 

[Piecake]

Huh? Why would I think that? I know there are plenty of countries that deal with illegal immigration.

Wasn't the US just criticized for sending plane loads of Woman and Children back to Honduras?

I said the law was ridiculous. I also said the conditions were redicuouls and the time lines were ridiculous. Its just the government dragging their feet. I also said it can't be all on Australia to have to deal with everyone that comes in, especially when neighboring countries point the boats in the direction of Australia.

But it is. It has always been and likely always will be on the country that the immigrants try to migrate to. What exactly is some international body supposed to do? Take some of the illegal immigrants off of Australia's hands? No country is going to agree to that.

Australia has options and choices. Blaming other nations just seems like an attempt to absolve a portion of Australia's guilt. If you do not like that other nations refuse those immigrants entry, then point them back as well. Do you honestly think its better to imprison them for years? Likely resulting them being deported anyways?

 

[JC Sera]

Australian voters are ultimately responsible.

to be honest, with our nigh two party system, I can't get behind this; labor is just as culpable in this as the coalition. I could not say with no doubt, labor would not have done this if they were in power.

 

[Darren870]

But it is. It has always been and likely always will be on the country that the immigrants try to migrate to. What exactly is some international body supposed to do? Take some of the illegal immigrants off of Australia's hands? No country is going to agree to that.

Australia has options and choices. Blaming other nations just seems like an attempt to absolve a portion of Australia's guilt. If you do not like that other nations refuse those immigrants entry, then point them back as well. Do you honestly think its better to imprison them for years? Likely resulting them being deported anyways?

No, but an international body could regulate and control the area, the dentition centers and the the people there. There then can be no excuses of time to process, poor conditions, "wistleblowing" etc etc. It needs to be collective through out that area though with all countries contributing to the cause. Of course this is easier said then done.

The UK and France work together on the issues in Calais with illegal immigration, so why can't Australia and its neighbors?

Australia does point them back though. Which now they are getting ripped apart of also. They find out these boats have landed in other neighboring countries and then are just told to go on there way.

And no, of course I don't want anyone to be imprisoned for years. Hence my first point.

 

[Coriolanus]

The UK and France work together on the issues in Calais with illegal immigration, so why can't Australia and its neighbors?

Have you ever looked at Australia's neighbours?

 

[Piecake]

No, but an international body could regulate and control the area, the dentition centers and the the people there. There then can be no excuses of time to process, poor conditions, "wistleblowing" etc etc. It needs to be collective through out that area though with all countries contributing to the cause. Of course this is easier said then done.

The UK and France work together on the issues in Calais with illegal immigration, so why can't Australia and its neighbors?

Australia does point them back though. Which now they are getting ripped apart of also. They find out these boats have landed in other neighboring countries and then are just told to go on there way.

And no, of course I don't want anyone to be imprisoned for years. Hence my first point.

Do Australia's neighbors have the resources to do that? Do they want to do that? England and France work together because it is in their own interest to do so. If Australia's neighbors don't have the means and the will then an International body isnt going to happen. And Nations that have the means, but have no stakes in this will state that it is Australia's problem, and it is, and they have their own illegal immigration to deal with.

 

[Darren870]

Have you ever looked at Australia's neighbours?

Yea of course there not the best. However, some of them have pretty strong economies. Some even stronger then UK/France (thought no where as big in terms of land mass)

Hence why an independent third party should be employed to deal with this.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Have you ever looked at Australia's neighbours?

You have a problem with Indonesia?

 

[Jintor]

shhhhhhh

 

[Dryk]

It is a tough situation and abuse can not be justified. On the other hand you have to understand that Australia has to secure its borders somehow, similar policies will probably take place in Europe if the refugee crisis continues to escalate.

It is possible to detain people without covering up their sexual assault

Source?

Also find it very fucking hard to believe that they spent 200k per illegal immigrant

Running indefinite detention in the middle of nowhere instead of processing people's refugee applications is expensive

Yea I have no idea why it takes so long. The government always says that often they arrive with no papers or documentation so they have to determine if they are actual refuges or if they are just economic migrants.

However, it shouldn't take YEARS to process. I heard something on the news the other day that a pathetically low number was granted rights into Australia each year. Can't remember the number but was surprised it was low.

I'm almost certain they're stalling on purpose, which ties into the previous point. If they actually did their jobs instead of stalling it would be much cheaper to detain asylum seekers, but it would make them look softer on boat people which they don't want.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

This is easily Australia's greatest moral failing since our treatment of the Aboriginal people.

 

[Yagharek]

The government in australia is now covering up allegations of child abuse.

At the same time they are holding a royal commission investigation into the various churches which covered up child sexual abuse in the past forty years.

Guess we are going to need a neutral umpire for the next investigation.

 

[SmartBase]

While I find it great that some people have found their spines these workers are putting themselves at risk for exposing something the public has shown it's perfectly fine with.

 

[Coriolanus]

This is easily Australia's greatest moral failing since our treatment of the Aboriginal people.

What do you mean? Before the settlers arrived Australia was nothing but bush.

 

[AdventureRacing]

Australian voters are ultimately responsible.

This is partly true. The problem is the general voter population is very uninformed and it's quite easy for the government and media to whip people into a frenzy about these things. Just shouting 'boat people' and fear mongrring seems to be an easy winner with voters.

Problem is no one is really out there educating people and both sides are on board. So you have both sides of government fear mongrring about boat people and all the major media do the same. Throw in a lot of uninformed voters and you end up where we are now. Doesn't help that here is only 2 options as well.

It's pretty disgusting what's going on and I think looking back its going to be seen in a similar light to the stolen generation. The fact that this is happening in this day and age is just incredible, people should see jail time for these abuses. At the very least I hope eventually it comes out just what sort of crimes have been committed at the hands of our government.

 

[Dryk]

While I find it great that some people have found their spines these workers are putting themselves at risk for exposing something the public has shown it's perfectly fine with.

I feel that calling the government's bluff is the only good move in this situation. As more time went by more people would be afraid to speak out.

 

[DrSlek]

Yea I have no idea why it takes so long. The government always says that often they arrive with no papers or documentation so they have to determine if they are actual refuges or if they are just economic migrants.

However, it shouldn't take YEARS to process. I heard something on the news the other day that a pathetically low number was granted rights into Australia each year. Can't remember the number but was surprised it was low.

When a relatively conservative morning talk show was talking about the Greek Debt Crisis recently, it was suggested that many Greeks would become economic migrants and join their extended families in Australia, and they all just nodded like "expect the Greek population in Melbourne to increase soon"...nobody questioned the double standard of this attitude.

 

[Jintor]

When a relatively conservative morning talk show was talking about the Greek Debt Crisis recently, it was suggested that many Greeks would become economic migrants and join their extended families in Australia, and they all just nodded like "expect the Greek population in Melbourne to increase soon"...nobody questioned the double standard of this attitude.

greeks aren't brown (enough) (anymore) to attract Real Australians (tm)

 

[JC Sera]

When a relatively conservative morning talk show was talking about the Greek Debt Crisis recently, it was suggested that many Greeks would become economic migrants and join their extended families in Australia, and they all just nodded like "expect the Greek population in Melbourne to increase soon"...nobody questioned the double standard of this attitude.

Hey as long as you don't come by boat everything is a-ok!

 

[Darren870]

I'm almost certain they're stalling on purpose, which ties into the previous point. If they actually did their jobs instead of stalling it would be much cheaper to detain asylum seekers, but it would make them look softer on boat people which they don't want.

Oh yea of course. They like dragging their feet.

I found the number from the article I read and it looked like 13 were granted asylum. Though 400 were sent back home as they were demeaned economic migrants or went home on their own free will. I think there might have been more that year, but its not mentioned in the article.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/26128130/asylum-seeker-returns-not-our-job-govt/
http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/in...ing-refugee-status-for-asylum-seekers/1315276

When a relatively conservative morning talk show was talking about the Greek Debt Crisis recently, it was suggested that many Greeks would become economic migrants and join their extended families in Australia, and they all just nodded like "expect the Greek population in Melbourne to increase soon"...nobody questioned the double standard of this attitude.

I think illegal economic migrants are worse. It creates multiple problems that can really screw up a country. Just look at east El Salvador. Money being sent to El Salvador from other family living in other nations is 16% of the GDP. I think it would hurt Greece even more in the long run.

And yes, I agree. Huge double standard. Australia has agreed to the Refugee Convention so they should be abiding by it and not dragging their feet.

Hey as long as you don't come by boat everything is a-ok!

Ironically, I think I just read that more people come by plane then boat. You of course never hear about this, and makes more sense to arrive by plane if you are seeking asylum. For some reason their is a huge fascination with boats...