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50 Shades of Grey- The movie: Reviews

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leadbelly

Banned
You're a breath of fresh air in off topic where, at times, a leftist puritanism as sanctimonious as any bible thumper's predominates. The story Masquerade posted speaks to the spirit: fantasy is somehow normative; fantasy and reality are conflated at every turn provided its politically expedient. As silly as the book/movie strike me, they are far from frightening. Instead, it seems incredibly patronizing to assume that the millions of women who were drawn to the work are incapable of identifying their own erotic fantasies and then differentiating these from actual desires. According to wikipedia "50-91% of people surveyed on university grounds in various places in the USA admit to having had a homicidal fantasy." Nothing suggests these fantasies "shape what we become." OT is often a lot like taking a trip to your fundamentalist grandfather's house for the holidays, though you are not alone.

Actually, I will say one thing. I haven't read the book, but it is obvious that some people seem to see something problematic with the ambiguity of consent to what seems violent and to some extent abusive sexual acts.

However, maybe people are missing the point of why some women seem to like the book. It is a work of fiction, not real life. A 'rape fantasy' of course is imagining a scenario where you are sexually assaulted without consent. If that is what they are into, I suppose they would want their fiction to be believable. What they perhaps wouldn't want is every scene to be qualified with obvious consent. That would be what they would want from role-playing and perhaps not what they want from their fiction. Maybe that would take people out of it.

The sex act in itself often times is an act of male dominance, be it a consensual one. I see 'Rape fantasies' as perhaps simply taking that to its extreme form. It's an extreme form of male sexual dominance.

It's also interesting that this is seen as pretty much Twilight fanfiction. I kind of see the eroticism of vampires in a similar way. A vampire is an extreme expression of masculinity and male sexual dominance. There is something dark and dangerous about a vampire. That becomes something very seductive.
 

FatalT

Banned
If you want to boil the series down to its most basic ingredients, it's just a woman's power fantasy of finding Billy Badass and changing him to not be Billy Badass for her with a little bit of kinky sex thrown in.

Take your girlfriends/wives to this movie and let them get all riled up so then you can go home and have hot, kinky sex involving restraints.
 

Cream

Banned
Actually, I will say one thing. I haven't read the book, but it is obvious that some people seem to see something problematic with the ambiguity of consent to what seems violent and to some extent abusive sexual acts.

However, maybe people are missing the point of why some women seem to like the book. It is a work of fiction, not real life. A 'rape fantasy' of course is imagining a scenario where they are sexually assaulted without consent. If that is what you are into, I suppose you would want your fiction to be believable. What you perhaps wouldn't want is every scene to be qualified with obvious consent. That would be what they would want from role-playing and perhaps not what they want from their fiction. Maybe that would take people out of it.

The sex act in itself often times is an act of male dominance, be it a consensual one. I see 'Rape fantasies' as perhaps simply taking that to its extreme form. It's an extreme form of male sexual dominance.

It's also interesting that this is seen as pretty much Twilight fanfiction. I kind of see the eroticism of vampires in a similar way. A vampire is an extreme expression of masculinity and male sexual dominance. There is something dark and dangerous about a vampire. That becomes something very seductive.

Once, with my girlfriend, I was being super dominate, punishing her and stuff. After a bit, I asked her "Do you think you've had enough punishment?", as if to say "I'll tell you when you've had enough", but she misunderstood, and thought I was actually asking for permission to continue. She told me that that was a "pussy dryer"
 
Once, with my girlfriend, I was being super dominate, punishing her and stuff. After a bit, I asked her "Do you think you've had enough punishment?", as if to say "I'll tell you when you've had enough", but she misunderstood, and thought I was actually asking for permission to continue. She told me that that was a "pussy dryer"

:/
 

It came off as dickish, but the book wasn't well written and the movie seems to be just as poorly handled. I want women's fantasies on the screen as much as any woman, but this is not what I asked for.

I just remembered that very little erotica is well written. Hell, even the Sleeping Beauty trilogy had it's terrible moments. Something about this one really offends my sensibilities and I've read a couple Zane books.
 

leadbelly

Banned
Once, with my girlfriend, I was being super dominate, punishing her and stuff. After a bit, I asked her "Do you think you've had enough punishment?", as if to say "I'll tell you when you've had enough", but she misunderstood, and thought I was actually asking for permission to continue. She told me that that was a "pussy dryer"

Yeah. I should actually say, in role-playing there are usually 'safe words'. In the book there seems to be no 'safe words' which leads to an ambiguity of consent. I just think that the ambiguity is probably part of the reason it is interesting to them. They don't want the story to appear 'staged'.
 

Principate

Saint Titanfall
If you want to boil the series down to its most basic ingredients, it's just a woman's power fantasy of finding Billy Badass and changing him to not be Billy Badass for her with a little bit of kinky sex thrown in.

Take your girlfriends/wives to this movie and let them get all riled up so then you can go home and have hot, kinky sex involving restraints.

Isn't that about as cliché as it comes, I suppose it is porn with plot I'm not exactly surprised. I suppose there won't come a time when taming the bad boy won't sell.
 

FartOfWar

Banned
Actually, I will say one thing. I haven't read the book, but it is obvious that some people seem to see something problematic with the ambiguity of consent to what seems violent and to some extent abusive sexual acts.

However, maybe people are missing the point of why some women seem to like the book. It is a work of fiction, not real life. A 'rape fantasy' of course is imagining a scenario where they are sexually assaulted without consent. If that is what you are into, I suppose you would want your fiction to be believable. What you perhaps wouldn't want is every scene to be qualified with obvious consent. That would be what they would want from role-playing and perhaps not what they want from their fiction. Maybe that would take people out of it.

The sex act in itself often times is an act of male dominance, be it a consensual one. I see 'Rape fantasies' as perhaps simply taking that to its extreme form. It's an extreme form of male sexual dominance.

It's also interesting that this is seen as pretty much Twilight fanfiction. I kind of see the eroticism of vampires in a similar way. A vampire is an extreme expression of masculinity and male sexual dominance. There is something dark and dangerous about a vampire. That becomes something very seductive.

And rape fantasies are common: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...s-rape-fantasies-how-common-what-do-they-mean
 

Karkador

Banned
Instead, it seems incredibly patronizing to assume that the millions of women who were drawn to the work are incapable of identifying their own erotic fantasies and then differentiating these from actual desires. According to wikipedia "50-91% of people surveyed on university grounds in various places in the USA admit to having had a homicidal fantasy." Nothing suggests these fantasies "shape what we become."

How do you figure people differentiate from their actual desires when it comes to homicidal fantasies? We see a pretty steady stream of incidents that suggest there are people who do not resolve that, and I wonder if there are even more people who haven't resolved that dissonance even though they haven't acted out. However, this is rather off-topic.

More on topic, though, I think it's unfair to paint the criticism with such a broad brush. I don't think I've personally heard anyone say the eroticism of the book is a bad thing (just embarrassing to read in public), but that the book is ultimately unaware or okay with the abusive relationship that lives inside of it - and the marketing for it doesnt really sell this as a bad idea, either ("in theaters on Valentine's Day"). So like anything, it will get criticized.

I think we might agree that it could be more useful to talk about the subject rather than just say " this is a shitty and dangerous book/movie", but calling the criticism 'leftist puritan' is just as reductive.
 
You're a breath of fresh air in off topic where, at times, a leftist puritanism as sanctimonious as any bible thumper's predominates. The story Masquerade posted speaks to the spirit: fantasy is somehow normative; fantasy and reality are conflated at every turn provided its politically expedient. As silly as the book/movie strike me, they are far from frightening. Instead, it seems incredibly patronizing to assume that the millions of women who were drawn to the work are incapable of identifying their own erotic fantasies and then differentiating these from actual desires. According to wikipedia "50-91% of people surveyed on university grounds in various places in the USA admit to having had a homicidal fantasy." Nothing suggests these fantasies "shape what we become." OT is often a lot like taking a trip to your fundamentalist grandfather's house for the holidays, though you are not alone.
Why yes, this a nuanced attempt to convince the other side.
 

sploatee

formerly Oynox Slider
I wasn't quite aware of this, tbh. Sorry. That said, judging by the source material, it's gonna be bullshit regardless, even if it is watered down.

Also, I only read the first book.



Chapter 1: Christian stalks Ana, it's portrayed romantically.

Chapter 2: He's already getting possessive in spite of the two not being a 'couple' yet, when Ana talks to another man (SHOCK! HORROR!), he's clearly deeply unhappy. Even though they're still technically barely anything more than strangers at this point.

Chapter 3: Ana is told taht she is to be referred to as her first name, but cannot refer to Christian as such, instead being told to call him 'Mr Grey', or 'Sir'.

Chapter 4: Literally the same shit from Chapter 3 (it IS a terrible book).

Need I go on...?



? Kinda inaccurate. :p



Sequels, the fact that lots of people who watch movies and TV are idiots (for instance, a worrying amount of people genuinely see Walter White as the good guy), general acceptance and the blurring of the lines of consent, etc...

I mean, I get it, guys. BDSM is a thing, I know. Completely different from rape and abuse though. The book is the latter, and the movie is likely to be so as well.

... And the book's terrible. Seriously, it's fucking terrible. Actual porn is visual, written better, and doesn't cost anything.

It seems to me like you just think the book is bad, rather than insidious.

Also. There's loads of non-visual porn out there!

It came off as dickish, but the book wasn't well written and the movie seems to be just as poorly handled. I want women's fantasies on the screen as much as any woman, but this is not what I asked for.

I just remembered that very little erotica is well written. Hell, even the Sleeping Beauty trilogy had it's terrible moments. Something about this one really offends my sensibilities and I've read a couple Zane books.

Nah, not dickish at all. The film might be utter crap. I'm just open minded about it for now, that's all.
 

Brakke

Banned
I'm totally fascinated by this phenomenon. So I finally broke down and bought the book last night, got about five pages in. Boy is it terrible. I didn't make it to any sex stuff which is where I'm sure it gets "interesting" but Christ is that prose rough. Clearly never went past an editor of any repute.
 
The only thing I'm upset about is that something this terribly-written got as popular as it did.

Yeah, I'm all for this kinda stuff being accepted by the mainstream and for sex not to be as taboo as it is ...

But not like this. Not by the hands of this shitty ass book.
 

ninjabat

Member
Hopefully since this is a female fantasy it inspires someone to direct a femdom movie. Would be interesting to see the general audience reaction.
 

FStop7

Banned
You're a breath of fresh air in off topic where, at times, a leftist puritanism as sanctimonious as any bible thumper's predominates. The story Masquerade posted speaks to the spirit: fantasy is somehow normative; fantasy and reality are conflated at every turn provided its politically expedient. As silly as the book/movie strike me, they are far from frightening. Instead, it seems incredibly patronizing to assume that the millions of women who were drawn to the work are incapable of identifying their own erotic fantasies and then differentiating these from actual desires. According to wikipedia "50-91% of people surveyed on university grounds in various places in the USA admit to having had a homicidal fantasy." Nothing suggests these fantasies "shape what we become." OT is often a lot like taking a trip to your fundamentalist grandfather's house for the holidays, though you are not alone.

Man, I miss your commentaries. You have a way of condensing a thing down to a sentence without being reductive or obtuse.
 

WaffleTaco

Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
I feel like a lot of people that are saying that this is terrible, have not read terrible books. It's not exactly the best in storytelling, but it's not the worst I've ever read. The point of the book is to entertain and that I was. Besides if we are going to make fun of people for liking bad stories, we can criticze everyone over on my the Gaming side for liking any story in any video game ever. Also just because a woman doesn't exactly like what a man is doing at the moment, does not mean it is rape. Sometimes we just like pleasing our partners.
 

axisofweevils

Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
For me, the worst parts of the books were the tedious email conversations where they insisted on specifying the time, date and subject line of every single email. I listened to the audiobook version of trilogy, and you can imagine how annoying that was.

It was a bit like this:

To: GAF
From: Axis
Date: 11th February 2015, 9:23 PM.
Subject: The emails are tedious.

Dear GAF.
I am writing this to demonstrate how tedious the email conversations were.
Yours, Axis.

To: Axis
From: GAF
Date: 11th February 2015, 9:24 PM.
Subject: Re: The emails are tedious.

Dear Axis,
I agree.
Regards, GAF.

Entire conversations were conducted like this throughout the whole trilogy. Couldn't they just join Skype or IRC instead? Sigh.... The movie of course won't have that, so it will probably be more interesting to sit through.
 

Skux

Member
I find the controversy surrounding this fascinating. It's funny how a film like this, in 2015, is more likely to get calls to be banned by liberals rather than conservatives.

At this point, whether it's a good film or not doesn't matter. The controversy is enough to shoot it up the box office charts.
 
It's a shit book, that's my only opinion on it. Looks like a shit movie too. Girls who read Twilight grew up and transitioned to this shit, that's how it feels.

Female audience is throwing weight around though, it's impressive to see.
 
I've not read them. My fiancée has. If it's consensual, I really don't care. BDSM is fab.

Why do you ask?

Basically the entire BDSM community hates 50 Shades because it's constantly nonconsensual and very clearly an actually-emotionally-abusive relationship. And no, that's not a matter of perspective. It's a really awful and inaccurate portrayal of what BDSM is like.
 

leadbelly

Banned
Basically the entire BDSM community hates 50 Shades because it's constantly nonconsensual and very clearly an actually-emotionally-abusive relationship. And no, that's not a matter of perspective. It's a really awful and inaccurate portrayal of what BDSM is like.

The book isn''t about the BDSM community though right?

Things like roleplaying, for instance, are to do with acting out a fantasy. Fiction isn't necessarily about acting out a fantasy, but rather an expression of fantasy. The point I am making is, the people that like that kind of fiction, do they really want it framed and contextualised as acting out a fantasy, or do they actually want the expression of that fantasy?
 

Odrion

Banned
Give everyone who tries to mansplain why it's wrong for girls to like FSoG or Twilight a fedora.

Hell, all the fedoras. Just forward every single fedora manufactured and shipped to their home addresses.
 

Moff

Member
The book isn''t about the BDSM community though right?
well it is to a certain degree. this is not a Marquis de Sade novel or some random rape fantasy, which are completely detached from modern BDSM.
it uses certain aspects of the modern BDSM community like a safe word. but then he ignores it, which is rape, so it's understandable that people will dislike that.
 

sploatee

formerly Oynox Slider
Dude, seriously, we rocked that shit. Also, congrats on your engagement. :)

Thanks!

Basically the entire BDSM community hates 50 Shades because it's constantly nonconsensual and very clearly an actually-emotionally-abusive relationship. And no, that's not a matter of perspective. It's a really awful and inaccurate portrayal of what BDSM is like.

Just checking, did you read the rest of my posts? You may have done, I just wanted to be sure.

You might be right or wrong. Like I've said a few times already, I'm capable of watching the film with open mind and forming a view. I can respect that you say that the BDSM community dislike it and your view of the book. I could also say that it's a fact that it's a phenomenon amongst female readers who (given the fact that its sequels have also sold gangbusters) clearly enjoy it, regardless of any supposed abuse of power by the central male character.

just to put it into perspective:

I could walk out of it and feel disgusted and like I've helped contribute to one of society's cancers. I could walk out and feel euphoric and like I've just had an epiphany. But in all honesty, I'll probably just enjoy the soft-core scenes, walk out wondering what all the fuss was about and then go for some food.

I won't be told what it is and what it isn't by any commentary without having seen or read the source first. Not because I'm disregarding what other people's views are, but just because that'd be ignorant.

I've spoken to friends and my partner who've read the book. I've discussed it with them. I've seen the trailer. I'm broadly familiar with the director and I've read what she has to say about it. I'm happy to at least hand over some money to see it and, hopefully, enjoy it.


Edit- sorry, just to rant a bit (it's late). I sometimes detect a bit of that sneery, snobby tone to discussions about any popular female fiction, like those that enjoy it are infants who need to be guided to more elevated pastimes. It's really condescending and tiring. This isn't particularly directed at you, it's just something I often see. It's a bit lazy.
 

Begaria

Member
Me and my fiancée are both going to see it. We're both women in our early 30s, so totally the target market. We're going for the sex.

Itd be so good to see more female-centred fantasies up on the screen for a change. I hope it does well.

Why not just watch the porn adaptation if it's about the sex? There would be actual sex.
 
Why not just watch the porn adaptation if it's about the sex? There would be actual sex.

Sometimes the illusion is sexier. I was having a discussion with my coworker about this. He's a big strip club fan while I prefer burlesque. I don't need to see everything to know its there. Sometimes a little "softcore" is enough.
 

leadbelly

Banned
well it is to a certain degree. this is not a Marquis de Sade novel or some random rape fantasy, which are completely detached from modern BDSM.
it uses certain aspects of the modern BDSM community like a safe word. but then he ignores it, which is rape, so it's understandable that people will dislike that.

Well, it is understandable that some people might not like it. I guess my point is, the book isn't set up as an 'actual' portrayal of the BDSM community or culture. I haven't read the book, but from what I know of it, it doesn't seem to be.
 

FatalT

Banned
Give everyone who tries to mansplain why it's wrong for girls to like FSoG or Twilight a fedora.

Hell, all the fedoras. Just forward every single fedora manufactured and shipped to their home addresses.

Photoshop some fedoras into GAF avatars in this thread.
 
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