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[140.85]

One thing I have to say is that the Palestinians know how to use the press, it's probably their best weapon.

Yup

Also: food for thought from '06

 

[Illuminati]

Let me give you a quick background of whats happening to the people in Gaza right now - they have no food supplies, no electricity, no petrol. Theres a blockade imposed by Israel thats been a little softened up barely. They have nowhere to go, and theyre going through a crisis - a crisis of losing at least 20 lives a day at what is starting to seem like random. I dont know what Id do if I was in their place.

And what was the cause that put people in Gaza in that situation?

 

[Lazy vs Crazy]

Most Palestinian casualties on the part of Israeli's are the result of military operations against militants. The militants on the other hand attack civilians, typically in scenarios where they are unarmed or unable to respond because the delivery vehicle is a suicide bomber.

To suggest like you just did that the Israeli's may be specifically targeting children based on one-off situations between settlers is not only disingenuous, it makes you part of the same inhuman coalition of blood-letters.

Did you read the New York Times today? They had an article about the recent Gaza action where Israeli troops were blindfolding and handcuffing prisoners and using them as human shields. The Israeli army also set up a sniper in the building across the street from a Palestinian leader's house and killed his two daughters (both under 10 years old).

Don't even try to paint Israel as not doing things to deliberately piss people off.

 

[Fady K]

First you are forgetting that Israeli cities are being randomly targeted the past seven years. Over 5k rockets. To this day Israel keeps sending food supplies (recent report I just found: 25.02.08 // 60 trucks). The electricity thing ... is just so fake. I'm sorry, but even the above photos I posted have streets with lights on. I even remember reading an article that showed photos of a Hamas gov meeting with candle lights, problem is it was shot in daylight, they just used curtains.

One thing I have to say is that the Palestinians know how to use the press, it's probably their best weapon. Every one that dies is somehow a civilian and every action of the IDF to prevent rockets from being shot to Sderot or Ashkelon is considered a crime. So, is the Israeli blood so cheap that they can't act? How would the US act if Las Vegas was being shot at daily for the past seven years? look at both sides. And before you say it, the Palestinians are the ones who started fighting against the IDF years ago, not the other way around, so you can't really say they retaliated against something.

The random targeting of Israeli cities brought how many Israeli casualties in comparison to Palestinian casualties? I dont know about Hamas - nor do I care for them - but the citizens are not receving electricity. 2-3 hours of electricity a few days ago max, God knows how much now. Also there are many reports about the death of Palestinian "militants" not just civilians. And dont you see that when the death of one Israeli soldier occurs its big news but when its countless Palestinians its sometimes barely even mentioned? That depends on where you are of course, in the Arab world, they wont miss any Palestinian casualties, and in the West they probably wont miss any Israeli casualties. Too bad for the media being objective supposedly. And the Palestinians fought the IDF for a reason. . Dude, even ex-IDF members spilled a few beans about how the IDF does their shit wrong and unethically. Go dig some of that stuff out sometime and youll understand why not only Palestinians, but any person would fight the IDF if they were subjected to the same things that the Palestinians as human beings were subjected to. In fact, on many counts, many Jews themselves found the IDF disgraceful.

 

[Atrus]

Dude, Israel's attack on Lebanon says otherwise. How many times did we hear the same shit: "When we destroyed that building, we assumed it was populated by Hezbollah members" only for them to have wiped out at least a few thousand innocent lives from the face of the Earth? Let me guess, people will think its necessary in the war to fish out the "terrorists".

Do you believe that any overall military operation can be performed without civilian casualties?

Do you believe that the casualties from Israeli military operations is worse than the military operations undertaken by other countries in the world? Such as Pakistan, India, China, US, UK, Canada, etc.

Military operations rely on assertions and assertions being judged on models and various factors are inherently not representative of the facts all of the time. Who to direct the hate against is obvious, the militants.

If the IDF were annihilated today, it would not stop the militants from continuing to kill Israeli's and Palestinians in their attacks. If the militants were annihilated today, the IDF would stop in its tracks.

 

[goomba]

 

[RiZ III]

Did you read the New York Times today? They had an article about the recent Gaza action where Israeli troops were blindfolding and handcuffing prisoners and using them as human shields. The Israeli army also set up a sniper in the building across the street from a Palestinian leader's house and killed his two daughters (both under 10 years old).

Wow.. sickening...

 

[Fady K]

And what was the cause that put people in Gaza in that situation?

The cause was started by Hamas - who OFFICIALLY WON the elections yet were forced to strip of that victory by Israel and Palestinian president Abbas - fighting for their right, all they could do was hold Gaza - and because of that, Israel put pressure into Gaza in order to have things their way as they didnt want Hamas in power, Hamas not wanting to give away their right, remained, clashing ensued, innocents died.

 

[soul]

The random targeting of Israeli cities brought how many Israeli casualties in comparison to Palestinian casualties? I dont know about Hamas - nor do I care for them - but the citizens are not receving electricity. 2-3 hours of electricity a few days ago max, God knows how much now. Also there are many reports about the death of Palestinian "militants" not just civilians. And dont you see that when the death of one Israeli soldier occurs its big news but when its countless Palestinians its sometimes barely even mentioned? That depends on where you are of course, in the Arab world, they wont miss any Palestinian casualties, and in the West they probably wont miss any Israeli casualties. Too bad for the media being objective supposedly. And the Palestinians fought the IDF for a reason. . Dude, even ex-IDF members spilled a few beans about how the IDF does their shit wrong and unethically. Go dig some of that stuff out sometime and youll understand why not only Palestinians, but any person would fight the IDF if they were subjected to the same things that the Palestinians as human beings were subjected to. In fact, on many counts, many Jews themselves found the IDF disgraceful.

That no one can really know what you said without being in the IDF, but I am interested in why the Palestinians started the fight with Israel. From what I understand they got their territories back, but are in a much worse status. I saw many articles of Gaza citizens claiming things were much better back when they were under Israeli control.

Any way I'm afraid I won't be able to reply any more, perhaps tomorrow, it's midnight and I go to sleep.

Haha, this is what Hamas and Fatah plan to do with the Israelis:

Throw them oversea? :lol I'm just kidding of course.

 

[Fady K]

Do you believe that any overall military operation can be performed without civilian casualties?

Do you believe that the casualties from Israeli military operations is worse than the military operations undertaken by other countries in the world? Such as Pakistan, India, China, US, UK, Canada, etc.

Military operations rely on assertions and assertions being judged on models and various factors are inherently not representative of the facts all of the time. Who to direct the hate against is obvious, the militants.

If the IDF were annihilated today, it would not stop the militants from continuing to kill Israeli's and Palestinians in their attacks. If the militants were annihilated today, the IDF would stop in its tracks.

No, I dont believe civilian casualties can be avoided in such operations - but I also dont believe anyone military unit can be so stupid as to continuously kill innocents by "accident" in search of the enemy on a ration of 400:20. 20 being the enemy for example.

 

[S-Wind]

What the fuck?

A school shooting happens and all you assholes can think about is what the "other" side's casualties are.

Fuck you.

School shootings and all you can think about is Palestine vs. Israel.

As tragic as any senseless death is, you are not looking at the larger picture. Which is one of the many reasons why things aren't going to change over there any time soon.

 

[Fady K]

That no one can really know what you said without being in the IDF, but I am interested in why the Palestinians started the fight with Israel. From what I understand they got their territories back, but are in a much worse status. I saw many articles of Gaza citizens claiming things were much better back when they were under Israeli control.

Any way I'm afraid I won't be able to reply any more, perhaps tomorrow, it's midnight and I go to sleep.

There is a book written by a Israeli himself who wrote all about this - i promise itll give you a MUCH better idea about why this fight began. Ill PM it to you.

 

[Atrus]

Did you read the New York Times today? They had an article about the recent Gaza action where Israeli troops were blindfolding and handcuffing prisoners and using them as human shields. The Israeli army also set up a sniper in the building across the street from a Palestinian leader's house and killed his two daughters (both under 10 years old).

Don't even try to paint Israel as not doing things to deliberately piss people off.

What does Israel stand to gain from killing little girls? If they intended on killing those girls why use a sniper and not a missile strike?

See the level of emotion and rationalizations to a particular bias here greatly confounds the issue. People place high expectations on those they disagree with but low to none on the peoples they have the least disagreement with.

 

[Illuminati]

The cause was started by Hamas - who OFFICIALLY WON the elections yet were forced to strip of that victory by Israel and Palestinian president Abbas - fighting for their right, all they could do was hold Gaza - and because of that, Israel put pressure into Gaza in order to have things their way as they didnt want Hamas in power, Hamas not wanting to give away their right, remained, clashing ensued, innocents died.

And you blame Israel from wanting to contain a militant group and their supporters whose ideology is destroying the entire state of Israel?

 

[Fady K]

What does Israel stand to gain from killing little girls? If they intended on killing those girls why use a sniper and not a missile strike?

See the level of emotion and rationalizations to a particular bias here greatly confounds the issue. People place high expectations on those they disagree with but low to none on the peoples they have the least disagreement with.

You'd be surprised to see just how evil some of them are out there - I speak of some military members only. Its horrible.

 

[Particle Physicist]

the story is on cnn frontpage.

30 palestinians were killed the other day, and CNN didn't even bother to put it as a headline. :|

I fucking hate American media.

yes it was. i saw it there. front page. stop spreading bullshit please.

and this is a bit different than the 30 deaths. those deaths included militants and happened during a fire fight. in this case, two men opened fire in a school. the situations are quite different.

 

[Fady K]

And you blame Israel from wanting to contain a militant group and their supporters whose ideology is destroying the entire state of Israel?

I blame both parties (not the citizens) cause they don't know how to run the country.

 

[140.85]

Did you read the New York Times today? They had an article about the recent Gaza action where Israeli troops were blindfolding and handcuffing prisoners and using them as human shields. The Israeli army also set up a sniper in the building across the street from a Palestinian leader's house and killed his two daughters (both under 10 years old).

Don't even try to paint Israel as not doing things to deliberately piss people off.

This?:

Residents say the Israeli soldiers were more anxious than during past incursions, and gruffer. At least four young men said independently that the soldiers used them as human shields. The young men were blindfolded and handcuffed, and then lined up, two or three at a time, in front of an Israeli soldier, they said, who guided them from behind as they moved down this street or entered another building. Sometimes, they said, a soldier used their shoulders as props for his M-16 rifle.

The young men — Riad Abed Rabo, 26; his brother, Muhammad, 21; his cousin Majdi, also 21; and Hassan Abu Sabah, 32 — all said that the Israelis picked them out from the rooms in which building residents were kept, searched them, handcuffed and blindfolded them, and used them as shields before letting them go seven to eight hours later. The use of civilians as shields has been banned by Israel’s Supreme Court. A military spokesman said that some young men were cuffed, blindfolded and walked to an interrogation center, but denied that anyone was used as a human shield.

It's hearsay from blindfolded people. It's not fact.

 

[RiZ III]

What does Israel stand to gain from killing little girls? If they intended on killing those girls why use a sniper and not a missile strike?

..Uh its quite obvious what the gain. Kill the man's daughters, let him live and make decisions which will incite more violence from the Palestinian side. Also a terror tactic by killing his children.

It's hearsay from blindfolded people. It's not fact.

It would be a bit more doubtful if Israeli soldiers hadn't admitted to carrying out such tactics in the past.

 

[Count Dookkake]

You'd think religion would bring stability and brotherhood to this region.

 

[Propagandhim]

What does Israel stand to gain from killing little girls? If they intended on killing those girls why use a sniper and not a missile strike?

The better question would ask what Israel could stand to lose. In reference to an army that receives little rebuke for the most egregious military offenses, not much.

 

[Atrus]

No, I dont believe civilian casualties can be avoided in such operations - but I also dont believe anyone military unit can be so stupid as to continuously kill innocents by "accident" in search of the enemy on a ration of 400:20. 20 being the enemy for example.

Again, nobody is questioning that the Israeli's are retaliating heavy-handedly but they do have that right to respond. The issue is that unlike other countries, the Israeli's have an extremely conservative approach when it comes to lives lost.

To make up for less deaths on the Palestinian side, more Israeli's should have to sacrifice their lives. This is a fact of numbers and in order for the Israeli's to trade Palestinian life for Israeli life, they should be given the support it needs to kill only those who need killing.

The problem is that the Palestinians will not drop complete support of militants:

- Stop living amongst them.
- Stop celebrating their deaths as martyrs.
- Stop funding them.
- Providing information as to who is a militant and where bases are.
- Stop supporting their causes in any capacity.

If the above happens, as a pre-condition to stopping the IDF heavy handed-ness you'll likely see a huge drop in casualties. Will the Palestinians support such actions? That's entirely up to them.

 

[S-Wind]

You'd think religion would bring stability and brotherhood to this region.

Then you don't know the Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) very well!!!

 

[Atrus]

..Uh its quite obvious what the gain. Kill the man's daughters, let him live and make decisions which will incite more violence from the Palestinian side. Also a terror tactic by killing his children.



It would be a bit more doubtful if Israeli soldiers hadn't admitted to carrying out such tactics in the past.

Is that the most reasonable assertion or is that just your own bias creating a fictional narrative? Why stop at the killing of his two daughters? Why not missile strike his relatives' homes or his neighbors, or his parents etc. etc.

This is just the same sort of petty conspiracy theorist mongering that fuels the hatred that funds militant groups like Hamas. The belief that they are the great soldiers of Islam against the vilified Jews.

 

[Kastrioti]

There was never a country called Palestine.

The people with the longest historical connection to Israel are the Jews. They were the ones who had there land taken away from them numerous times by invading Muslim forces.

After World War 2 70% of Israeli territory was transfered from Ottoman hands into British hands. How can it be stolen from them if it never belonged to them in the first place?

 

[Kastrioti]

How do you negotiate with people like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dPb1bF-s4M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZEGsnWZKh8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ExZVimjST8

Islam, the religion of peace.

 

[RiZ III]

Is that the most reasonable assertion or is that just your own bias creating a fictional narrative? Why stop at the killing of his two daughters? Why not missile strike his relatives' homes or his neighbors, or his parents etc. etc.

This is just the same sort of petty conspiracy theorist mongering that fuels the hatred that funds militant groups like Hamas. The belief that they are the great soldiers of Islam against the vilified Jews.

Your original question has many different answers. One is what I just said. It might be the case that it really was an accident, but the circumstances don't hint at that. They killed not one of his children, but two! They sniped both of them. Think about that for a second. Someone took aim, and shot two little girls. There is no accident here.

The Israeli army has nothing to lose. They will not be questioned, they will not be condemned. American soldiers have intentionally killed civilians in Iraq and tortured prisoners, these things came to light and were then dealt with. No one is questioning the Israelis though. They use human shields, kill hundreds of civilians, block aid, harass people at checkpoints, shoot at journalists, and the list goes on.

I don't condone violence on either side, but there is no surprise as to why the Palestinians lash out.

Kastrioti, Islam might be a terrorists religion, but read the book of Joshua and you'll soon realize that Judaism condones far worse.

 

[Particle Physicist]

There was never a country called Palestine.

The people with the longest historical connection to Israel are the Jews. They were the ones who had there land taken away from them numerous times by invading Muslim forces.

After World War 2 70% of Israeli territory was transfered from Ottoman hands into British hands. How can it be stolen from them if it never belonged to them in the first place?

[]http://bokertov.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/05/30/israel_and_the_arab_world.gif[/]

exactly.

btw. the bottom half of israel.. the section thats is for the jews... and makes the UN partition look disproportionate.. is about 95% desert.

 

[RiZ III]

The people with the longest historical connection to Israel are the Jews. They were the ones who had there land taken away from them numerous times by invading Muslim forces.

They Jews haven't had control over that land for more than 2000 years. The people with the longest history on that land are the Arabs that lived there till now. The Muslims didn't kick them out when Jerusalem was taken, and it wasn't even theirs when the Muslims took it.

 

[Particle Physicist]

They Jews haven't had control over that land for more than 2000 years. The people with the longest history on that land are the Arabs that lived there till now. The Muslims didn't kick them out when Jerusalem was taken, and it wasn't even theirs when the Muslims took it.

and it wasnt the 'palestinians' when part of it was given to the jews. and the jews didnt kick them out either. many fled due to the upcoming war.. thinking they would be able to come back after things settled and the jews were pushed to the sea.

things snowballed from there.. the jews really should have let them back in.. instead, we have this situation.

 

[Atrus]

Your original question has many different answers. One is what I just said. It might be the case that it really was an accident, but the circumstances don't hint at that. They killed not one of his children, but two! They sniped both of them. Think about that for a second. Someone took aim, and shot two little girls. There is no accident here.

The Israeli army has nothing to lose. They will not be questioned, they will not be condemned. American soldiers have intentionally killed civilians in Iraq and tortured prisoners, these things came to light and were then dealt with. No one is questioning the Israelis though. They use human shields, kill hundreds of civilians, block aid, harass people at checkpoints, shoot at journalists, and the list goes on.

I don't condone violence on either side, but there is no surprise as to why the Palestinians lash out.

Again is this the reasonable conclusion based on what you know? Do you not need to know how many bullets were involved, the type of gun, size and position of the daughters, autopsy analysis, whether or not the sniper was independently motivated, and so forth?

Furthermore, where is the accountability and condemnation of the militants who themselves are guilty of murdering and oppressing Palestinians, or subverting them. Where is the condemnation of the foreign Islamic powers who enable these murderers?

This type of condemnation is excessively slighted against the Israeli's.

 

[Chichikov]

Kastrioti -

This history lesson is hardly productive for the understanding of the current mid-east problem, but if you’re going to go that route, for fuck's sake, at least try to keep some relation to reality -

The people with the longest historical connection to Israel are the Jews.

Wrong, the longest occupier of Israel is the Ottoman Empire, and there were people there before the coming of the Jews (you may want to read the bible).

They were the ones who had there land taken away from them numerous times by invading Muslim forces.

Wrong, when the Muslims invaded Israel there were hardly any Jews there.

After World War 2 70% of Israeli territory was transfered from Ottoman hands into British hands. How can it be stolen from them if it never belonged to them in the first place?

Wrong again.
Israel was occupied by the British in World War I.
And the Palestinians were there.
Sure, they didn't run the country, but at that time neither did the Indians, do they have no claim to India?

BigMap.gif

Yeah, what does it have to do with the Palestinians?
I know it's shocking, but not all Arabs are the same.

 

[GaimeGuy]

There's so much information left out in this picture that I don't even know where to begin, and I know I'm going to appear as being some pro-Israel biased fool, but this bears explaining.


First of all, I think the Golan Heights are erroneously included in the 1946, Partition Plan, and 1949-1967 maps as either Israeli or Palestinian territory. They shouldn't be (I could be wrong, though, as the shapes of territory differ from map to map. But based on the shape of the territory they have shown, they included Golan)




We could talk about how the 1946 picture is incorrect.


It should be colored uniformally, as 100% British land, not "Palestinian" or "Jewish" land. We could also discuss how 95% of the people in the area were Arab and Jewish settlers that had come over during the past 75 years. The arab muslim settlers and palestinian muslims came to be lumped together to form the Palestinian people. (The native palestinians identified more with the arab settlers, since they shared a culture and religion with each other, unlike the Ashkenazi Jewish settlers, whose culture was influenced by the secular and christian societies of Europe.)

We could also talk about why the land was split up the way it was in that picture. It's not like Britain didn't impose restrictions on who could settle where.





We could talk about the 1949-1967 picture's errors:

The Palestinian land should technically be labeled as "Jordan" and "Egypt"

We could talk about WHY the loss of Palestinian land occured in the context of Israel's Independence War, and it involves the Palestinians rejecting the partition plan, evacuatinig their homes so that Israel's Arab neighbors could have an easier time plowing through the towns into Israel. We could talk about how a tactical struggle over land occurred between the Israeli Army and the combined forces of the Iraqi, Jordanian, Syrian, Egyption, Lebanese, and Arab Liberation armies. (Keep in mind that the Arab Liberation, Lebanese, and Syrian forces came from the north, Egypt from the southwest, and the Iraqi and Jordanian forces from the east.)


You had Israel's opponents trying to split Israel into 3rds, with the Iraqi forces trying to converge with the northern forces, and Jordan's forces trying to converge with the Egyptian forces.

Israel, on the other hand, was trying to get a secure, contiguous landmass.

We all know which group succeeded. Israel secured the northern landmass and extended its land in the center and south, while Jordan and Egypt remained in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

The point is, the jump from "UN Partition Plan" to "1949-1967" leaves out a considerable gap in activity

(By the way, the crazy jewish settlers which have gradually delved into the West Bank, as seen in the 2000 map, need to back the fuck off)

 

[RiZ III]

and it wasnt the 'palestinians' when part of it was given to the jews.

Yea. I was just responding to Kastrioti.

In either case, it really doesn't matter how things were 2000 years ago or a 1000 years ago. The fact is Gaza is an occupied territory which doesn't belong to Israel. The arabs made a shitty decision invading Israel 50 years ago, but things need to move on, and both sides need to stop provoking each other.

However, I'm sure if I was an Israeli or a Palestinian, I would feel strongly against the other side if my child/friend/family was killed.

 

[Particle Physicist]

Wrong again.
Israel was occupied by the British in World War I.
And the Palestinians were there.
Sure, they didn't run the country, but at that time neither did the Indians, do they have no claim to India?

palestinians of back then were comprised of jews, muslims and other religious affiliations. the term was used to encompass the people originally living there during British occupation.

the palestinians of today are not really the same. the term has morphed and been taken over by the muslom groups from the area.

 

[Chichikov]

First of all, I think the Golan Heights are erroneously included in the 1946, Partition Plan, and 1949-1967 maps as either Israeli or Palestinian territory. They shouldn't be (I could be wrong, though, as the shapes of territory differ from map to map. But based on the shape of the territory they have shown, they included Golan)

The Golan Heights is not included in any of those maps.
(You are pretty much spot on in the rest of your post).

palestinians of back then were comprised of jews, muslims and other religious affiliations. the term was used to encompass the people originally living there during British occupation.

the palestinians of today are not really the same. the term has morphed and been taken over by the muslom groups from the area.

The direct ancestors of the people who are currently referred to as Palestinians.
Good enough?
Let's not play semantics.

 

[AmMortal]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ8jdtLqN2s

That's why they throw rocks.
I bet you CNN does not sho you that now does it?

because its owned by JEWISH entreprenuers.

 

[Illuminati]

Wrong, the longest occupier of Israel is the Ottoman Empire, and there were people there before the coming of the Jews (you may want to read the bible).

It was the Canaanites and there is always the argument that Israelites were Canaanites or related in some fashion.

 

[GaimeGuy]

but anyways, we've gotten off topic.


School shooting. Condemnable, regardless of the circumstances or Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

 

[Pellham]

the story is on cnn frontpage.

30 palestinians were killed the other day, and CNN didn't even bother to put it as a headline. :|

I fucking hate American media.

That story was on front page news from many US sources, such as Yahoo News.

You are just being biased and looking at things the way you want to look at them.

Kastrioti, Islam might be a terrorists religion, but read the book of Joshua and you'll soon realize that Judaism condones far worse.

This is a pretty stupid thing to say. You and I both know that Jews don't take the Bible literally except for a marginalized crazy orthodox group that nobody pays any attention to. On the flipside you have millions of muslims who believe in the subjugation of women and executing people for adultery.

 

[Particle Physicist]

The Golan Heights is not included in any of those maps.
(You are pretty much spot on in the rest of your post).


The direct ancestors of the people who are currently referred to as Palestinians.
Good enough?
Let's not play semantics.

well. semantics matter when people post pictures of palestinian land when they dont realize that at the time those palestinians werent exactly the same as the ones we know today.

 

[Illuminati]

those palestinians werent exactly the same as the ones we know today.

Exactly, they are just another group of people who claim the land is theirs and has been theirs, when the region has been occupied by many civilizations throughout history.

 

[Verano]

Not the jews!!!
:'(

Gonna play "Remembering Munich" from the Munich OST to honor the jews killed.

 

[GaimeGuy]

This is a pretty stupid thing to say. You and I both know that Jews don't take the Bible literally except for a marginalized crazy orthodox group that nobody pays any attention to. On the flipside you have millions of muslims who believe in the subjugation of women and executing people for adultery.

Yeah, for Jews, the Talmud and rabbinical interpretations are faaar more important than the holy texts themselves in terms of interpretations.

 

[KarishBHR]

Dude, have you been in Palestine? You have no idea what its like down there. When a #@%!ing tank is coming in to destroy your little home to make way for their own new homes you're just going to either sit there or bloody do something. Guess what? People would usually fight back. And its even more pathetic that a bloody tank and guns is what it takes to tackle kids throwing stones. And where did you get the idea that Palestinians get guns? The citizens have no weapons. The militant groups do.

I like you soul, i love your contributions in the gaming discussions, but bro its not the way you think it is..

Umm... have you ever been to the territories? Or Israel? I have, for half a year I lived there.

The issue is not black and white... IDF aren't monsters like some have said in this thread, and neither are the Palestinians.

We should all be blaming this on Britain, who left Israel and Palestine in a heartbeat to sort their shit out in '48 and Israel happened to win out. Israel won again in '67.

IM JUST THROWING THIS OUT THERE: Saying Israel should give back all the land from '67 is like saying America should give back Texas to Mexico. They won it in war, it's how land is gained.

WITH THAT BEING SAID, I do think Israel should give back the land from '67 not because it doesn't belong to them, but just because I want peace

 

[AmMortal]

This is a pretty stupid thing to say. You and I both know that Jews don't take the Bible literally except for a marginalized crazy orthodox group that nobody pays any attention to. On the flipside you have millions of muslims who believe in the subjugation of women and executing people for adultery.

Wrong, Nothing in the Qur'an ever states any tendency to terrorism I challenge you to find it. In full Context please. But violence is all over the torah, that and excuse me for saying this:

Incest, rape and blatant racism.


The Criterion came to correct what happened to the Law.

 

[GaimeGuy]

BTW, the whole subjugation of women thing is a lot more cultural than it is religious (a lot of the practices were adopted from the Persians).

While Islam (and Judaism, for that matter) make distinctions between the responsibilities, rights, and privileges of women as opposed to men, it's not to the extent of degradation or inferiority as you see in some of these societies. that's cultural.


And the terrorism comment is completely wrong.

 

[Chichikov]

well. semantics matter when people post pictures of palestinian land when they dont realize that at the time those palestinians werent exactly the same as the ones we know today.

That Palestinian loss map is absolute bullshit, I never claimed otherwise.
I was just responding to Kastrioti.

 

[Adamrogo]

Oh they will, and they will end up killing 30 more palestinians

Hopefully more.

Israel should just "finish the fight" already, take them all out.

EDIT: "them" refers to the terrorists. (who were killed this week)

 

[Slurpy]

Just watched Alan Dorshowitz on Glenn Beck. I was about to put my foot through the screen. His conclusion is that all college professors are far left, have no courage, and blindly follow what their students believe. No, it of course couldnt be that college professors tend to be more educated than most, and therefore have a deeper knowledge of the situation there and are there not as biased and ignorant about it than most.

Obviously this incident is tragic and horrible, but why is it that pretty much everyone invited to speak about the situation is a Zionist/necon/staunch Israeli supporter. There needs to be some fucking perspective. How many Palestinians were killed last week, ~150? I didnt see ONE pundit arguing their case. While we often get personal stories from the Israeli side, and scenes of them crying etc, where the fuck is that from the Palestinian side? No, its simply reported in #s as of theyr counting bricks. Theres so much misinformation and such a bigoted perspective from the media, its no wonder the vast majority are so fucking ignorant about the situation.