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[Baconsaurus Rex]

I find it interesting that before the sudden UFO boom in the '50s, there weren't really that much flying saucer sightings but rather crafts that belong to that era. Zeppelin shaped crafts with large windows with persons staring back at them in the early 1900's and before that literal flying ships with sails and all.

 

[Mully]

I find it interesting that before the sudden UFO boom in the '50s, there weren't really that much flying saucer sightings but rather crafts that belong to that era. Zeppelin shaped crafts with large windows with persons staring back at them in the early 1900's and before that literal flying ships with sails and all.

Some of the accounts even talk about men who look like humans and speak English to people down below as they fly large airships.

Only as our understanding of science improved did our imaginations run wild. Greys were never spoken of prior to the 1950s, and we don't hear anything about large slow moving airships piloted by proper English men who purposely fly around breweries.

 

[TOP SHOTTA]

Not trying to hijack....

...but why are we talking about Roswell when the Phoenix Lights incident is so much more frightening?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Lights

Flares.
My ass. Fuck outta here with "flares"...

 

[KHarvey16]

Not trying to hijack....

...but why are we talking about Roswell when the Phoenix Lights incident is so much more frightening?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Lights

Flares.
My ass. Fuck outta here with "flares"...

The famous video shot over Phoenix was definitely flares. They actually disappear precisely as they fall behind the mountain range in the distance.

 

[Joel Was Right]

Not trying to hijack....

...but why are we talking about Roswell when the Phoenix Lights incident is so much more frightening?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Lights

Flares.
My ass. Fuck outta here with "flares"...

It's been covered a lot here. Something you may not know: the governor that held the mock press conference the next day? Who insulted so many people by doing so? He recently claimed that he too saw the object traverse left to right from his viewpoint. It makes my blood boil that he had the audacity to mock the many others who saw something that night when he too was one of them

 

[Mully]

Not trying to hijack....

...but why are we talking about Roswell when the Phoenix Lights incident is so much more frightening?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Lights

Flares.
My ass. Fuck outta here with "flares"...

1st Incident = Illusionary contours. Basically people saw airplanes in formation very high and thought they were moving slowly and silently as one big alien ship.

2nd Incident = Flare exercises. Flares are constantly dropped over the Phoenix area as seen in multiple sightings after the Phoenix Lights incident.

It's been covered a lot here. Something you may not know: the governor that held the mock press conference the next day? Who insulted so many people by doing so? He recently claimed that he too saw the object traverse left to right from his viewpoint. It makes my blood boil that he had the audacity to mock the many others who saw something that night when he too was one of them

It wouldn't surprise me if he said that just to get back in the public's good graces. He probably didn't see the lights, but said it anyway to make it look like he wasn't the bad guy.

 

[Smokey]

what ever happened to that Wii poster

that dude was awesome with his conspiracy stuff

 

[Joel Was Right]

They dropped flares later that evening. Unknown to them at the time though, reports of the lights began a lot earlier than that, so they fucked up. Still not as bad as the "recovered flying saucer, tell the world press = it was just a weather balloon"

 

[LCGeek]

The biggest fallacy in the UFO movement is that unexplained has to equal UFOs. Yet, no one really likes to talk about how many triangular, cigar, and fast aerial phenomena usually turned out to be our own aircraft.

1950-1990 America was never used to seeing domestic, even military, aircraft to look like this:


I'm not opposed to the idea of flying saucers or aliens. But, I'm quite sure many of the reports are over exaggerated. Don't even get me started on "hypnosis therapy" for abductees. It's been proven such therapy is as useful as 1000 dollar Monster cables.

That's a fallacy if you read the op and what he is actually trying to say. Also despite what you mentioned being true there is plenty out there our government hasn't been able to account for. Love when your side pulls this one out as if a few examples explain all the shit that is happening. Because what you have to be insinuating at the very least is our government is very capable of secretive but no secretive testing that is taking place all across the country at random periods of time. We have many military bases and the like but we aren't that equipped. We also have on record military officlals of various countries saying it can't be human cause they are using technology so fast we can't keep up. You think in this world any country in on something like that would hide it from the us or that with the neocons in office we wouldn't flash it like the drones we do these days.

So which one is it neocons who have the ability to b testing thousands of different UFOs all across the globe not just america that we never get to see or something besides us is up there. One of them is more scary than you realize pick a real answer and state it for the forum please.

 

[Evolved1]

thread was worth this...

 

[HalfBakedProphet]

Presidents, or more correctly soon-to-be- Presidents, are not experts on aviation so their sightings are no more valid than any other civilians.

totally. Both are unreliable. To be fair, there are a few "aviation experts" who are completely off their rockers with this UFO stuff

Spoiler

Was gonna make a Reagan joke but I resisted.

 

[Mr Swine]

It's always swamp gas guys...

 

[Baconsaurus Rex]

Some of the accounts even talk about men who look like humans and speak English to people down below as they fly large airships.

Only as our understanding of science improved did our imaginations run wild. Greys were never spoken of prior to the 1950s, and we don't hear anything about large slow moving airships piloted by proper English men who purposely fly around breweries.

I can imagine that seeing things in the sky is simply a weird occurrence in the human mind; a natural "we are not alone" response since we're social creatures after all. It all went bonkers after the scientific advancements in the past century. It's pretty much a fact now that we are not alone with the vast amount of planets and stars.

If it is nothing but a human reaction, then popular culture must play a huge factor in shaping all of this.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

I don't believe in any of this UFO nonsense but it's interesting to read about.

 

[Az987]

Ahahahaha. Good to see I'm not the only one that found this funny.

 

[RagnarokX]

I can imagine that seeing things in the sky is simply a weird occurrence in the human mind; a natural "we are not alone" response since we're social creatures after all. It all went bonkers after the scientific advancements in the past century. It's pretty much a fact now that we are not alone with the vast amount of planets and stars.

If it is nothing but a human reaction, then popular culture must play a huge factor in shaping all of this.

We are the same species that believed that the sun was dragged across the sky by a guy in a chariot.

 

[Joel Was Right]

FYI

Roswell in the late 40s was home to the 509 Bomber Group; the one that carried and dropped the atomic bombs a few years prior

 

[jonezer4]

Presidents, or more correctly soon-to-be- Presidents, are not experts on aviation so their sightings are no more valid than any other civilians.

If you value those types of opinions I highly recommend this book:

 

[Baconsaurus Rex]

With Roswell and Phoenix out of the way, what do you guys think of the UFO wave over Belgium in 1989-1991? Hundreds of witnesses including policemen

Edit: mentioned in the book posted above me

 

[MrToughPants]

If you value those types of opinions I highly recommend this book:

Some interesting quotes from verified secret squirrel community:

Yeah you see some weird shit over there. We had something hovering over BAF one night shining a blue laser beam just outside the wire. Weird part was no noise and the fact that shit isnt allowed to just hover over BAF as it's a pretty busy airfield 24/7. Still dont know WTF that was. - Navy SEAL

There are always going to be people who think you are either crazy, dumb, or both for coming forward about these experiences.

You just have to have the balls to acknowledge the truth about what you have witnessed.

I have seen on three different occasions other guys who were with me and witnessed incredible events go on to deny having seen it later on.

The first one was as a 19 year old private in NTC in 1993. We were digging a foxhole and saw a flash of light, followed by a slow fireball burning through the sky, like you would see from a gigantic meteor. Then another flash of light. We were like "Wow. What a cool meteor."

Then about 30 seconds later the same exact event repeated itself. Same giant fireball. Same exact trajectory. I was like "Uh...Sergeant...WTF was that?"
He was like "Private- I have no fucking idea. Just keep digging and don't ever tell anybody you saw it."

And that was just one of many strange things I saw that I'll gladly tell people about, because I'm not a pussy.

Dude... I saw a very similar thing at NTC in 1992 when I was stationed out there. We were out on the northern edge of post, blowing off "leftover" ammo.

Night time, up in the sky, it was like a spotlight got turned on; but in the sky. White light. It stayed absolutely still. Then from each side, two smaller red lights shot out, and just went who the hell know where. This white light stayed their for several minutes. The red light came back, when into the side of the white light and it disappeared.

My entire platoon saw it. I've been perplexed by the notion of UFO's since.

NTC....... Ohhh yea. NTC, home to the Jet Propulsion Laboratories. Whom also recieves a nice portion of thier budget from DARPA. Also within close proximity to NTC, China Lake. I; accompanied by many others, have seen some very strange shit out there.
I remember one night sitting in BATT laager site; along with the rest of the hundred or so joes, awake after it just turned dark. I was sitting on the top of one of the VISMOD M113's and we hear this high pitchy sound turning into a low roar. Then, "bammmmmm." We all were hit with blast of COLD air (like a twenty to thirty degree temp. change), lots of wind and blowing sand. And the wierd thing, all of our ears were popping from the pressure change, and you physically could feel an electrical charge present. We watched this outbound object (small light) disappear over the hilltop; then appear again on the horizon as a small glow stopping in mid air. Lot's of "WTF is that????" were heard. Within seconds we all hear something like ten to twenty loud booms; such as a plane breaking the speed of sound, and watched the one stationary light; break into two lights the same size right on top of each other, and rocket into the sky forming a perfect Y and disappear. This all took place in like ten seconds. I have been around assloads of CAS; especially on approach, but this was not an aircraft. We also lost COMS with everyone, some kind of so called EMP brown out. Crazy. OPS ceased for us the next day as everyone had to replace/rekey all of thier COMS, some of the vehicle's would not start and alot of electrical equipment was tits up. Military equipment and personal electronics. I was pissed that my new Braun Field shaver was fried. Of course we were told to not ask questions and STFU. But it was in Irwin's base paper that week. "Weapons testing: was the offcial reply." RIGHT....... My ass....... Tell that to the thousand or so people who witnessed the event that evening......

 

[Mr Swine]

So what would exactly happen if someone would try to shoot these Ufo's? Has anyone done so?

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Pretty much.

This sums it up for me. With the way technology is advancing these so called sightings are actually happening less instead of more.

 

[Death Dealer]

So what would exactly happen if someone would try to shoot these Ufo's? Has anyone done so?

"We Have Lost Many Men and Planes Trying To Intercept UFOs"

- General Benjamin Chidlaw

 

[3phemeral]

Did you actually see a solid object or did you infer it was there because it appeared to block out the stars?

No, it was a solid object and about 6-7am in the morning during the Spring. I was getting ready to walk to school. I saw probably 80%. Looked like an equilateral triangle, but couldn't get any other detail because it was directly above me and I couldn't only see so much through the window.

Here's an example:

It was moving over my house, out of my view from the window.

Based on your description, there was an exact same craft reported right by my house last year. Huge black triangle craft, a few thousand feet off the ground that moved dead silent. Was night but those reporting it said it blacked out the stars and was clearly nothing they'd ever seen before.

I've seen a few reports mentioning something similar to what I saw, but they always say they saw it at night.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

My favorite case: The Battle of Los Angeles.

Quite interesting, actually.

 

[Zeke]

A quick Google search will demonstrate that there are indeed plenty of sightings outside the US. Coincidentally, South America has historically been a greater hotspot of sightings than in the US. If you like, I can provide viewing material which cover S. America and e.g. Russia

Yes please!

 

[thomaser]

No, it was a solid object and about 6-7am in the morning during the Spring. I was getting ready to walk to school. I saw probably 80%. Looked like an equilateral triangle, but couldn't get any other detail because it was directly above me and I couldn't only see so much through the window.

I read about a huge "blimp" that the air force has supposedly started using. Extremely large, black and invisible to radar, and used to transport tanks and troops around the world. Perhaps something like that? It's not altogether unbelievable either, unlike many other theories.

 

[Volimar]

Very interesting OP.

I like to keep an open mind, but people should definitely work hard to try to find mundane causes before calling them flying saucers. On the flip side of that, just dismissing firsthand accounts as "people are fallible," "eyewitness accounts are notoriously unreliable," etc. isn't finding the cause. It's laziness. Also, saying something was "probably" something mundane without really having much to back it up with is equally lazy. I'm all for Occam's Razor, but "probably" is kind of antithetical to proving anything, right or wrong.

 

[KHarvey16]

Very interesting OP.

I like to keep an open mind, but people should definitely work hard to try to find mundane causes before calling them flying saucers. On the flip side of that, just dismissing firsthand accounts as "people are fallible," "eyewitness accounts are notoriously unreliable," etc. isn't finding the cause. It's laziness. Also, saying something was "probably" something mundane without really having much to back it up with is equally lazy. I'm all for Occam's Razor, but "probably" is kind of antithetical to proving anything, right or wrong.

If a mundane explanation is more probable the person attempting to prove otherwise hasn't done a good job.

 

[Dilly]

They should just land and get it over with.

 

[Kinitari]

Seems that some of the discussion has gone onto general UFO discussion, so I have a question for a lot of the UFOist's in the thread.

Okay, if UFO sightings, any of them, are actually from alien species we first have to make a few assumptions for this to be possible.

1. They are technologically very advanced, to the point where they can traverse great distances of space, either at super luminal speeds or sub luminal speeds and they can live for very long times/are traveling in generation ships.

2. They have theoretically been here for around 50 years, if we want to go back to the 60s UFO craze, more or less depending on what viewpoint you subscribe to.

Now knowing this, how do UFO sightings make sense to you? I mean... okay, you are an alien and you want to visit Earth - cool. What is your goal? Is your goal to study the planet, maybe take samples? Easy peasy, odds are you could suck up some molecules out of the air and have the DNA of enough of the earths species to be done with that pretty quick. So why fly around in weird ways at night with bright lights? Has your alien species mastered space flight, but not computer vision that can see in absolute dark? If you want to be sneaky, at your technological level you are essentially God-Class compared to humans, so it's safe to assume that if you don't WANT to be seen, you won't be seen.

Now going off that assumption, why would aliens want to be seen sporadically? Let alone the 'crashes' that happen where you find a ludicrously anthropomorphized alien inside. What's the explanation for this? Am I not considering all the variables here? If someone can offer a counter point, I would love the discussion.

 

[LordCanti]

Seems that some of the discussion has gone onto general UFO discussion, so I have a question for a lot of the UFOist's in the thread.

Okay, if UFO sightings, any of them, are actually from alien species we first have to make a few assumptions for this to be possible.

1. They are technologically very advanced, to the point where they can traverse great distances of space, either at super luminal speeds or sub luminal speeds and they can live for very long times/are traveling in generation ships.

2. They have theoretically been here for around 50 years, if we want to go back to the 60s UFO craze, more or less depending on what viewpoint you subscribe to.

Now knowing this, how do UFO sightings make sense to you? I mean... okay, you are an alien and you want to visit Earth - cool. What is your goal? Is your goal to study the planet, maybe take samples? Easy peasy, odds are you could suck up some molecules out of the air and have the DNA of enough of the earths species to be done with that pretty quick. So why fly around in weird ways at night with bright lights? Has your alien species mastered space flight, but not computer vision that can see in absolute dark? If you want to be sneaky, at your technological level you are essentially God-Class compared to humans, so it's safe to assume that if you don't WANT to be seen, you won't be seen.

Now going off that assumption, why would aliens want to be seen sporadically? Let alone the 'crashes' that happen where you find a ludicrously anthropomorphized alien inside. What's the explanation for this? Am I not considering all the variables here? If someone can offer a counter point, I would love the discussion.

They came here to conduct anal probings. Haven't you been paying attention?

I could see intergalactic anthropologists being interested in a much less advanced species like ours, but I'd think that not making contact would be pretty high up there as far as laws go. Unless space travel has become so commonplace that we're getting intergalactic rubberneckers, I think most UFO sightings (not explainable as aircraft, missiles, etc) are bogus.

In any case, they didn't make overt contact at any point since the rise of larger civilizations, so the chances of there being any contact during any of our lifetimes are slim. The same goes for us figuring out intergalactic travel during that time period.

 

[Volimar]

If a mundane explanation is more probable the person attempting to prove otherwise hasn't done a good job.

Well it's not "proven" either way. The real burden of proof should be on what the hell it is rather than saying what it probably is or isn't and then acting as if Occam's Razor solved the debate for you.

It doesn't do the believers any credit to hop on the E.T. bandwagon right away when something happens either though.

 

[Transhuman]

The wife of the ex-prime minister of Japan's wife claims to have been abducted

The wife of his wife? Sexy.

 

[The Elite]

Do you have any real sources for those quotes and facts in the OP?

I know the Carter stuff is true. It's been known about for years. Same with Reagan.

 

[U2NUMB]

My favorite case: The Battle of Los Angeles.

Quite interesting, actually.

Wow.. I have never heard of that. Very interesting read indeed. Seems a bit overkill to shoot 1400+ rounds into the air before figuring it out was a baloon.

 

[KHarvey16]

Well it's not "proven" either way. The real burden of proof should be on what the hell it is rather than saying what it probably is or isn't and then acting as if Occam's Razor solved the debate for you.

It doesn't do the believers any credit to hop on the E.T. bandwagon right away when something happens either though.

Assuming it's mundane is a perfectly acceptable position given the lack of evidence it's anything else. If someone has reliable evidence the object can't be anything we know about currently that certainly warrants questioning that assumption, but we never get that. We always get eyewitness reports, blurry videos, malfunctioning or misused radar or just plain hoaxes.

I guess the point is to even put options on the table to consider we'd need some kind of evidence that justifies their presence there. If I come home to a cold apartment I don't need to consider an invisible air conditioner as a possible cause to begin with since I have no evidence that can even exist. That isn't proof that wasn't responsible but assuming it was due to an open window or a broken furnace or any other cause I can justify with real precedent is absolutely the correct place to start.

 

[Joel Was Right]

1st Incident = Illusionary contours. Basically people saw airplanes in formation very high and thought they were moving slowly and silently as one big alien ship.

Not sure you know what you're talking about. Are you referring to the sighting of lights in formation? Are you aware of what people claimed to have seen that night in its entirety, beyond 'lights'?

 

[dionysus]

Stuff

You assume human motivations and behavior on the aliens. (Though point taken on it always being human-like aliens.)

The closest example we can come up with is the Europeans first arriving in the new world. Westerners in their "cloud" ships, especially in South America, were rationalized as gods and the Spaniards behavior was completely different and unexplainable to the natives. The natives tried to shoehorn the Spaniards into their cosmology (to disastrous consequences) because that is what they knew.

It is the same here. If these are real sightings of aliens, we try to proscribe human motivations to them. They are here for research, or anthropologists, etc. Your premise is that these aliens must behave using human patterns of behavior and since they don't that is somehow proof that they don't exist.

I don't know if they exist or not, but the fact that they don't behave in a logically human manner is not evidence against.

Edit. God terrible grammar in this post.

 

[Volimar]

Assuming it's mundane is a perfectly acceptable position given the lack of evidence it's anything else. If someone has reliable evidence the object can't be anything we know about currently that certainly warrants questioning that assumption, but we never get that. We always get eyewitness reports, blurry videos, malfunctioning or misused radar or just plain hoaxes.

I guess the point is to even put options on the table to consider we'd need some kind of evidence that justifies their presence there. If I come home to a cold apartment I don't need to consider an invisible air conditioner as a possible cause to begin with since I have no evidence that can even exist. That isn't proof that wasn't responsible but assuming it was due to an open window or a broken furnace or any other cause I can justify with real precedent is absolutely the correct place to start.

I guess it all depends on what level of likelihood an explanation for an occurrence has as to whether you're comfortable that it solves it.

 

[jonezer4]

1st Incident = Illusionary contours. Basically people saw airplanes in formation very high and thought they were moving slowly and silently as one big alien ship.

2nd Incident = Flare exercises. Flares are constantly dropped over the Phoenix area as seen in multiple sightings after the Phoenix Lights incident.



It wouldn't surprise me if he said that just to get back in the public's good graces. He probably didn't see the lights, but said it anyway to make it look like he wasn't the bad guy.

Weren't there countless people that said when the formation went overhead it blocked out the sky/stars behind it? Also, the GOVERNOR initially poked fun at the incident, then later admitted he saw it too and that there's no way it was flares or known aircraft in formation.

 

[BruiserBear]

The biggest fallacy in the UFO movement is that unexplained has to equal UFOs. Yet, no one really likes to talk about how many triangular, cigar, and fast aerial phenomena usually turned out to be our own aircraft.

THIS

 

[Ikael]

I believe in UFOs, as in, there are Unidentified Flying Objects out there. Not everyone that has seen one is a liar or a lunatic. As for said objects to be extraterrestrial aircrafts, I think that the most plausible explanation is experimental aircraft:

- Far better performance than regular aircraft
- Usually non visible on radar
- Extensive interaction with other vessels, common to militar exercises
- They tend to appear flying over non popullated areas
- Their disclosure would "compromise national security"

As for those UFOs whose behaviour and flight patterns implies a far, far higher level of technology than our current archievements: I do believe that some military experiments are indeed almost in sci-fi levels of technology, and people do underestimate the intelligent agencies's capacity for keeping technology and cover operations under wraps. Hell, something as cucumbersome and big as the B-2 was able to stay hidden for almost one decade, and we are talking about a plane whose manteinance and building process implies thousand of non military personnel.

 

[The Elite]

THIS

UFO stands for Unidentified Fly Object.

If it's unexplained it's most likely unidentified. If you could identify it you most likely could explain it.

UFO does not mean it's alien.

 

[Kinitari]

You assume human motivations and behavior on the aliens. (Though point taken on it always being human-like aliens.)

I see how it comes off as though I assume human motivation and behaviour, so that's a fair criticism. I think what I was trying to do was bring attention to some of the usual 'reasons' cited for alien visitation - gathering info, samples (ie, abduction/probing) and general observation. At this point there is already some assumed level of human-like cognition (the desire to gather information for example), so I was just trying to reason it out from that basis.

The closest example we can come up with is the Europeans first arriving in the new world. Westerners in their "cloud" ships, especially in South America, were rationalized as gods and the Spaniards behavior was completely different and unexplainable to the natives. The natives tried to shoehorn the Spaniards into their cosmology (to disastrous consequences) because that is what they knew.

It is the same here. If these are real sightings of aliens, we try to proscribe human motivations to them. They are here for research, or anthropologists, etc. You're premise is that these aliens must behave using human patterns of behavior and since they don't that is somehow proof that they don't exist.

I don't know if they exist or not, but the fact that they don't behave in a logically human manner is not evidence against.

I think the most anthropomorphism I apply to the aliens in my scenario is the desire/non-desire to be detected. I don't know if that is sooo much of a stretch to approach the argument from, considering I am doing so while assuming some generally accepted truths from the pro-alien-visits community (technologically advanced, observing people).

In the end I have to try and apply some framework to the discussion, or else nothing really gets discussed as pro-ufoers can simply say "Aliens work in mysterious ways" for every completely inane idea that is presented when someone asks them "Why would an Alien do x?".

 

[dionysus]

In the end I have to try and apply some framework to the discussion, or else nothing really gets discussed as pro-ufoers can simply say "Aliens work in mysterious ways" for every completely inane idea that is presented when someone asks them "Why would an Alien do x?".

I see your point and I guess I change my position because we must have some framework to discuss or else there is no point talking. It is important to remember though that we are using a human framework and it has weaknesses when discussing the unknown.

Slightly ff-topic, but as I science fiction reader I am much more interested in depictions of aliens that are truly alien and not just humans in a halloween costume.

 

[Kinitari]

I see your point and I guess I change my position because we must have some framework to discuss or else there is no point talking. It is important to remember though that we are using a human framework and it has weaknesses when discussing the unknown.

Slightly ff-topic, but as I science fiction reader I am much more interested in depictions of aliens that are truly alien and not just humans in a halloween costume.

Oh for sure, if you haven't read peter f Hamilton, give it a read because he really and truly tries to conceptualize aliens of all types, including even absolutely alien consciousness.