cj_iwakura
Member
Shame the IP holder is insanely greedy.
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A Look at Japanese Game Sales on Steam - Oct 2016 edition [Steamspy figures]
- Thread starter kswiston
- Start date
How does that significantly impact the Steam VN audience or sales though? If anything in such a situation FSN (And it'd be Mahoutsukai before Tsukihime, knowing Typemoon) would pick up healthy sales, and that's it. It's hardly a panacea for Steam VN sales.
The same argument was made before for MuvLuv, Steins;Gate, (and the upcoming Baldr Sky)... and it hasn't really changed anything.
What will change the landscape is a wider variety of high-quality titles in those veins, and the awareness for such titles, instead of people going, "Oh x ADV is not on Steam, it's crap."
CertifiedFP
Member
Also, another thing to note is - Type-Moon's IPs aren't as out of reach as some people would like to think. Every single game based on Type-Moon's IPs has been localized, save for /Extra CCC (PSP game in 2011) and Grand Order (Gacha mobile game), along with every major anime adaptation of their IPs. There are parties out there that can get Type-Moon to the negotiating table and get the rights on favorable terms - Capcom, Arc System Works, Marvelous+XSEED, a few others I forget that have localized Type-Moon content in the past - The problem is that none of these companies are interested in localizing visual novels. I mean, jesus christ, we even got Melty Blood this year.
I mean, shit, Extella was announced for localization months ahead of the Japanese release date, with only a 1.5 month delay between JP and western release. And given XSEED's words and actions as of late, I wouldn't be surprised to see a PC port of it for Steam before the end of 2018.
I mean, shit, Extella was announced for localization months ahead of the Japanese release date, with only a 1.5 month delay between JP and western release. And given XSEED's words and actions as of late, I wouldn't be surprised to see a PC port of it for Steam before the end of 2018.
Basileus777
Member
No, companies have tried to license the visuals novels and failed. Lack of interest from localizers isn't the cause here. XSeed getting a game developed by their parent company is a different issue.
CertifiedFP
Member
I spoke of Capcom and Marvelous, not Sekai. I know Sekai isn't able to, they've said as much in the past.. Should I rephrase it for those with less ability at reading comprehension?
The ones who do have the resources to get the rights to the VNs don't localize visual novels period.
Basileus777
Member
I never mentioned Sekai Project, wasn't even thinking of them in fact. I'm not sure where this bizarre hostility is even coming from. The point was that they were dealing with different rights holders in Japan. Marvelous developed games are in a category of their own.
CertifiedFP
Member
When people find creative ways to misinterpret what I say, it kind of draws my ire.
I was very clearly talking about how the only companies that can negotiate with T-M are the ones that don't bother with things as niche as VNs.
Basileus777
Member
There was no misinterpreting really. But you muddied your case by using XSeed/Marvelous as an example when it's not a very good one, their parent company developed the game. Obviously actual big publishers aren't interested.
But that was the point. Why aren't they more interested, when they have been licensing and localizing all the related games and spinoffs?
They know there is a market for the FSN franchise in the US/EU. They've been capitalizing on it.
CertifiedFP
Member
Yeah? What about it? Either way it was negotiated with T-M that Marvelous would have rights to distribute it, something based off of T-M's IP, outside of Japan.
Nothing based off of Type-Moon's IPs that gets localized is actually developed by Type-Moon. The last notable thing they developed themselves was Hollow Ataraxia over a decade ago. Their entire business model since then has been raking in licensing money from adaptations (Anime and games), ports (F/SN Vita), and remasters (Melty Blood).
And when did we get into big publishers? Just the fact that we're talking about Visual Novels should imply we aren't talking about big publishers.
I'm not too savvy when analysing game sales but those Dark Souls numbers seem insane to me. Especially when you compare it to say, MGSV which you would have thought was a much more mainstream game.
Comparatively, do those RE HD numbers seem kind of low to anybody else? Especially since its thought of as one of the best games in series along with 4.
Comparatively, do those RE HD numbers seem kind of low to anybody else? Especially since its thought of as one of the best games in series along with 4.
CertifiedFP
Member
(Is this the point where we ask "Does Valkyria Chronicles have towns?")
Metal Gear and Resident Evil are more niche than you'd think. Believe it or not, most mainstream consciousness of Resident Evil is of the movies, not the games - In fact, I'd say there's a lot of people who know if it solely as a film series and don't even know the games exist whatsoever. Either way Capcom says the Remasters met their expectations, and they lead to more of Capcom's back catalog, such as Dead Rising, getting remasters and PC releases.
Metal Gear is obviously very popular, but it's popularity is restricted pretty much entirely to the hardcore gaming community. That's enough to get a few million easily, but ultimately Metal Gear is the domain of the /v/ crowd through and through.
Dark Souls though? Jesus, where do we start with Dark Souls? I can't explain it properly, but there's just something about it. It's earned its place.
Yeah, that's what just dawned on me looking over the figures. Gave me a bit of perspective about MGS and RE. Super glad Capcom are happy with the numbers though. More games to PC the better. I wish Konami would release some of the older MGS games on Steam but we all know thats not gonna happen :|
Yeah, considering we had to get DkS here through a petition it's just insane. So happy though. DS1 is my GOAT. Seems to have really resonated with the PC crowd.
GhostTrick
Banned
I readed through the thread. Your point is basically that it's mainly happening with low prices floors. Basically, the old "5 dollars sales/humble bundle" shtick when it's false in most cases.
Maneauleau
Member
I am surprised at how low some of these figures are even with the humble bundles
I think the fact that DQH2 was already on the horizon and this time with multiplayer didn't really help the sales and I think the Steam crowd is aware of these sort of things. That being said these numbers are still too low indeed.
the low amount of sales for recent games has a lot to do with the frequency of release for japanese games on steam. There were nothing for 10 years and suddenly everything came over in the last 2 years or so. Even me, someone that's a huge fan of japanese games, buy games kinda compulsively and don't really play them (aka the ideal consumer for these companies) can't even keep up anymore. There's no reason for me to buy 20 more games when I already have hundreds unplayed games that I purchased in the last few years in my backlog lol
Chairmanchuck
Member
I think a lot of people are rather waiting for sales than to buy full-priced games. If you are a PC-Gamer from the 90s, you are actually also used that PC-games, even at release, are always 10-20€ cheaper than the console-ports.
Another thing is the backlog, when it comes to full-priced games. I mean my backlog is huge right now, so why should I buy DQH at 60€, when I dont even have time to play it. At 30-40€, maybe I would have bought it directly at release, with 60€ I can wait till the next sale.
And like dhlt25 said.
Remember when the japanese games started showing up on Steam. People even bought mediocre stuff like Agarest, because the thirst was real. Now we have like over 10 new japanese titles on Steam along with Visual novels and even doujin-games. People have "too much". I still have to finish Neptunia 4, Neptunia U, Neptunia SRPG spinoff and the Neptunia Zombie stuff along with FF13 Versus, Akibas Trip, BlazBlue 3, Corpse Party, Disgaea, EDF 4.1, God Eater 1+2, I am Setsuna etc.
Yeah, this is the backlog issue that we discussed on the previous page as well.
Namco seems to have successfully circumvented it by moving to day-and-date releases of their latest games straight away, which seems to allow them to do good numbers at full price for many of their games. Other publishers are still chipping away at their back catalog.
Theoretically at least this issue should eventually disappear, given that with port releases at a higher frequency than new games everyone should eventually catch up. However, given the huge amount of old titles some publishers might still port they really shouldn't expect too much from them in terms of initial sales (they might have a really long tail of people filling out their library at lower prices though).
SliceSabre
Banned
The thing I can't help but notice is how sales fucking tank after the first game is released.
It is like the hype is there then they actually play the game and the fanbase goes "We were hyped for this!? That was a mistake." and thus the subsequent games sales tank. Not to mention some of these don't even have good numbers regardless.
Either way I hope JRPGs/Japanese games continue to come to Steam/PC so that the franchises stay alive for PC and console/handheld users.
It is like the hype is there then they actually play the game and the fanbase goes "We were hyped for this!? That was a mistake." and thus the subsequent games sales tank. Not to mention some of these don't even have good numbers regardless.
Either way I hope JRPGs/Japanese games continue to come to Steam/PC so that the franchises stay alive for PC and console/handheld users.
I'm sure to some extent the effect you describe exists, but I really want to quote myself here on the problems of undifferentiated owner comparison of games released at different points in time, and which are at different points in their pricing progression:
Not at all. The concept seems to trip up so many people in this thread that I guess a chart could help.
Basically, games on Steam often have a pattern of some significant sales at launch, then a dropoff, then significant sales the first time the game is ~30% off (and some additional full-price sales after that) then again at 50%, and 75%, and so on.
Now, if you take a game and its 3 sequels, and assume that they all sell exactly as well as each other, and that they are released in 10 month intervals with a sale happening roughly every 9 months, and fill in some made-up-but-sort-of-realistic numbers, then then the sales pattern will look like this:
If we now look purely at a snapshot in month 37 then it will seem like there is a heavy drop-off for the sequels (the most recent game sold less than 20% of the first one!) even though we filled in the exact same sales pattern.
Of course, that's not to say that there will never be a sales drop for sequels -- obviously that does occur -- just that only looking at current sales without taking the release date and pricing history into account is inconclusive on a long-tail platform.
Chairmanchuck
Member
Maybe they first buy "Game 1", then notice "Hm. Its not that good."
Its the same with manga and anime. The more volumes/episodes come out, the more people stop reading/watching it. Just with games though they notice that maybe that game isnt for them.
So many good games that people are not getting since they're not mainstream, it's making me sad...
At least it's alright for some hyper niche games I guess...
I still think the reason isnt because of "mainstream" or not, but because of missing time. If person ABC wants to play a JRPG, they would buy the big titles, not some niché stuff like Ray Gigant. I think a lot of people are like me. The japanese games in their backlog is only growing, because now you get like 10 or more japanese titles on Steam every month. Also most of japanese games are not "5-7 hour" games like a lot of western games lately seem to be, but at least 20 hours.
Chairmanchuck
Member
Sölf;222256895 said:
While I would agree with you, but these sales are actually pretty average for VNs. Publishers are happy if a VN reaches 10.000.
Nowadays Umineko/same as Higurashi doesnt have the same influence it would have 5-6 years ago.
This made my heart melt. ❤️
Tizoc
Member
Hold up ive been anti g to play saya no uta for some time but how does fata morgana 'out macbre' it for lack of a better term?
Nah, the situation is attributed to the fact that earlier games in the series always went through a series of sales before the next game came out.
This is not first week sales, I remind you and other readers in this thread.
Battlechili
Banned
The fact that Phantom Brave got so few sales while Disgaea got a lot is a great injustice.
EDIT: Why isn't I Am Setsuna listed under Square Enix?
EDIT: Why isn't I Am Setsuna listed under Square Enix?
You can't make a blanket statement like that. Unless you think Agarest 2 is going to quadruple its sales in the next year.
Yes, people should be mindful of Steam where games can have good legs with discounts. But you can't handwave everything away with that. It's the same shit that happened with Hotline Miami 2 and The Legend of Grimrock 2 when people brought up how they seemed to be underperforming.
Disgaea is better known, and has better characters and "story" (story being a series of genre parodies). Phantom Brave has better gameplay, but the characters and story are pretty bland unless they have done a re-write since the PS2 version. It had none of the humor that Disgaea has.
I will add Setsuna to the list. I must have skimmed over it.
Grimrock 2 and Hotline Miami 2 are creeping into more than respectable numbers now. They also had higher price points and avoided steep discounts for much longer than both of their predecessors. I bought Hotline Miami for $2.50 and Legend of Grimrock for $3.75 well within a year of launch. Maybe even 6 months after launch (I can't remember). Hotline 2 just started getting $5 sales recently.
EDIT: Oops, I meant to post this into my previous post!
Hotline Miami 2 didn't underperform, though. That's bullshit.
In the release window Devolver was shouting a lot about how good it was selling. It also had a higher pricepoint.
AFAIK, the game sold better than the first in the launch window.
Battlechili
Banned
I would argue very strongly otherwise. I know Disgaea characters are demons, but I would argue that Phantom Brave's much more down to Earth characters and story were much more relatable. Instead of emphasizing humor, the game focused more on trying to be heartwarming. I felt that Ash's efforts to try and make Marona happy along with Marona's conflict of trying to prove herself and win people's favor despite the stigma against her was touching and sad. The fact that Ash's very survival is in part to blame for how people treat Marona just took it a step further. Disgaea's characters aren't relatable in that sense. They're much sillier, and the humor is mostly slapstick and at times seemed kind of random to me.
The games are fairly long-ish and their release gaps have been way too short, plus Megadimension VII has higher system requirements and higher price, I think it'll probably do better through sales.
Re;Birth1 - January 29th 2015
Re;Birth2 - May 29th 2015
Re;Birth3 - October 30th 2015
Action Unleashed - March 21st 2016
Hyperdevotion Noire - April 26th 2016
Megadimension VII - July 5th 2016
MegaTagmension - October 3rd 2016
SatelliteOfLove
Member
More importantly, it's the ability to do Stupid Things plus the fourth best OST of the PS2 era (and a really great port and valuable haaanime Steam Cards don't hurt).
There are a lot of good posts on this and the last page that address this problem, like this one:
The 'Steam-sales-cycle' Durante brought up is just 1 of the symptoms.
I'd also add 'late port with barely any marketing' to that list (though it's not particulary about sequels), which is especially bad when you combine it with the Backlog-problem and a ton of japanese developers porting their back-catalogues on Steam at the same time with little time inbetween.
Personal anecdote: I was really hyped about World of Final Fantasy and was convinced I'd buy it at release for full price whenever it hit Steam in the future. Right now the game is out on consoles and you barely hear anything about it if you aren't actively looking and my current stance is 'eh, I'll buy it for 10$ in a sale, because I already have so much stuff to play and other games are coming out all the time.
What I mean is that you can't take these numbers in a raw fashion to gauge the interest of a series. Neptunia for example, is always on steady increase as time pass on. If I remembered it correctly, last year Neptunia Rebirth:1 was at 150k-200k, while Rebirth:2 was below 100k. One year later, Rebirth number almost doubled while Rebirth: 2 is comparable to its predecessor last year number. You can't say an interest in a series decline after the first game based on numbers that steadily increased across the series. Unless when one year later there isn't meaningful increase to the sequels, then we can said that the interest do decline, which is sadly the case we've seen with The Legend of Heroes: Trail in the Sky.
About Dragon Quest Heros: I picked it up, but I could see why sales in Japan were low. Even though SE sold it here, they never translated it. It was sold only in English, despite the PS3/4 being in Japanese.
Hopefully Namco and Sega can come to their senses and sell their games here.
Hopefully Namco and Sega can come to their senses and sell their games here.