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[elrechazado]

Oh, I think my point still stands however.

Well, barristan was unhorsing bitches at the age of ten.

 

[LegendofJoe]

Yeah, he needs to start pruning the tree. Not the Starks though, they've suffered enough. The only good Greyjoy is a dead Greyjoy.

Hear, Hear!

 

[CrunchyB]

Really? If that's true, no wonder he's struggling with timeline and continuity issues.

Some guy at the Westeros forum tried to build a timeline. Unsurprisingly, some things don't add up, but it seems to be roughly correct.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/31411-global-timeline/

 

[KingK]

If Edmure, the Blackfish, and little Robert were to die, and Sansa were to marry Harry the Heir, then Harry the Heir would suddenly become the heir to the Eyrie, Winterfell, and Riverrunn. Damn.

Not that I want Edmure or the Blackfish to die.

Also, I could still see a five year gap happening right at the end of Dance. It really needs to at least. Arya needs time to train, Bran needs time to train, Dany's dragons need time to grow, Sansa needs time to learn the Game, etc.

He's already said that Cersei, Jaime, and some others from Feast have chapters in Dance, but "not many." I could see the jump happening right before the end of the book, then all of these characters getting a "recap" chapter or two to set up for the next two books.

Also, the Greyjoy subplot just needs to end. They take up way to many chapters with all of their POVs and it's all unnecessary. As I've said before, who gives a shit about who rules the Seastone Chair? In addition to the Greyjoy chapters being easily some of the worst in the series, it just screams filler and takes up way too much goddamn time. GRRM needs to kill off those characters, and maybe Brienne, and start bringing the number of POV characters under control.

 

[elrechazado]

. As I've said before, who gives a shit about who rules the Seastone Chair? .

Godly men.

 

[KingK]

Godly men.

Well I say we let all of those men go dine for eternity in the Drowned God's halls.

 

[Sinatar]

I really enjoyed the Iron Isle POV's in Feast. GRRM doesn't build story for nothing, they are certainly not "filler", something will come of them to be sure. As it is I found it quite entertaining, Euron Crow's Eye is a fascinating character.

 

[bengraven]

You know what, having read other Martin works besides the main Ice and Fire novels, I actually really like the Brienne chapters so far on this re-read. It just feels like a "knight's quest" sort of thing, a classic Arthurian tale with a Martin twist (that it's an ugly female virgin).

Sansa is already found out. Ser Shadrich (the Mad Mouse) has made his way into Littlefinger's personal guard. (Read carefully at the end of AFfC.)

Remember the Mad Mouse travelled with Brienne for awhile and was also tracking down Sansa for the bounty. Obviously he was a better detective than Brienne.

It will be interesting how he uses that knowledge. Will he destroy Littlefinger's plans? Or blackmail him?

I can't believe I never noticed Shadrich before at the end of Feast. I'll have to pay attention when I get back to that. And yes, Shadrich is obviously a much better detective.

If Edmure, the Blackfish, and little Robert were to die, and Sansa were to marry Harry the Heir, then Harry the Heir would suddenly become the heir to the Eyrie, Winterfell, and Riverrunn. Damn.

Jesus, well he certainly would live up to that title then wouldn't he?

 

[bengraven]

Also, when is Jon going to send men up to kill the Watchmen up at Crastor's Keep?

You'd think he'd want to avenge the murder of Mormont, but also might get Stannis support since he's doing "the right thing" and because Stannis can get some of his own knights up there to scout the lay of the land.

That said, there are probably wights everywhere.

But imagine how awesome it would be if they arrived and killed all the oathbreakers and rescued the women and children. Or they arrived and it was this empty black shell where the Others attacked.

 

[elrechazado]

Also, when is Jon going to send men up to kill the Watchmen up at Crastor's Keep?

You'd think he'd want to avenge the murder of Mormont, but also might get Stannis support since he's doing "the right thing" and because Stannis can get some of his own knights up there to scout the lay of the land.

That said, there are probably wights everywhere.

But imagine how awesome it would be if they arrived and killed all the oathbreakers and rescued the women and children. Or they arrived and it was this empty black shell where the Others attacked.

those guys are effed now that they don't have craster sacrificing his kids to the others.

 

[bengraven]

those guys are effed now that they don't have craster sacrificing his kids to the others.

That's why I'm thinking the Others are going to show up and destroy them. I feel bad for the women and children though.

 

[Pollux]

That's why I'm thinking the Others are going to show up and destroy them. I feel bad for the women and children though.

Agreed, although the deserters deserve it.

 

[Advance_Alarm]

Also, when is Jon going to send men up to kill the Watchmen up at Crastor's Keep?

You'd think he'd want to avenge the murder of Mormont, but also might get Stannis support since he's doing "the right thing" and because Stannis can get some of his own knights up there to scout the lay of the land.

That said, there are probably wights everywhere.

But imagine how awesome it would be if they arrived and killed all the oathbreakers and rescued the women and children. Or they arrived and it was this empty black shell where the Others attacked.

read the ADWD chapters that are already out

 

[bengraven]

Agreed, although the deserters deserve it.

The dead deserve a true buri....al.

Oh fuck MORMONT ZOMBIE CONFIRMED.

read the ADWD chapters that are already out

I have, they don't say anything about Crastor's Keep.

 

[Pollux]

The dead deserve a true buri....al.

Oh fuck MORMONT ZOMBIE CONFIRMED.



I have, they don't say anything about Crastor's Keep.

Well weren't these chapters released like 5 years ago, so i'm sure they've changed ALOT since then.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

ADwD Jon and Melisandre speculation

Spoiler

Jon will fuck Melisandre I am sure of it. Red heads dig his shit and he spits fire game around them. Ygritte obviously fell madly in love with him on first sight, and Jon was like bitch please in a subtle flirty way. After reading his preview chapter, well, he is doing the same thing with Melisandre, and she too is attracted to him it appears. Her final line "you know nothing, Jon Snow" is proof of that. It is also apparent Jon has yet to unlock some hidden ability too. That preview makes me real happy to know Jon plays one of the de facto roles in ADwD. The way he talks back to Stannis makes it seem as if HE is the king talking to one of his lords.

 

[zeroshiki]

If Edmure, the Blackfish, and little Robert were to die, and Sansa were to marry Harry the Heir, then Harry the Heir would suddenly become the heir to the Eyrie, Winterfell, and Riverrunn. Damn.

Not that I want Edmure or the Blackfish to die.

He wouldn't be heir, he'd be Lord of the Eyrie. Winterfell and Riverrun belong to Sansa though. So their kid would be heir to all three.

 

[neoanarch]

Watching the new episode and I can't remember but what happened to zombie hand?

Also Varys traveling with a group of 'actors' in the free cities?

 

[Fjordson]

Also, when is Jon going to send men up to kill the Watchmen up at Crastor's Keep?

You'd think he'd want to avenge the murder of Mormont, but also might get Stannis support since he's doing "the right thing" and because Stannis can get some of his own knights up there to scout the lay of the land.

That said, there are probably wights everywhere.

But imagine how awesome it would be if they arrived and killed all the oathbreakers and rescued the women and children. Or they arrived and it was this empty black shell where the Others attacked.

Oh shit, I totally forgot about those guys. Fuck, so many awesome subplots still going on in this series. Especially in the North.

I love everything about the North in the books. Can't wait to catch up with what's going on with Bran.

 

[Enduin]

He wouldn't be heir, he'd be Lord of the Eyrie. Winterfell and Riverrun belong to Sansa though. So their kid would be heir to all three.

Sansa has no claim to either and neither would her child. Riverrun would fall to Edmure's child with Roslin Frey and Winterfell is Brans. Only in Dorne do females have equal inheritance rights with males, everywhere else it goes to the eldest living male, even to cousins before it goes to a female.

 

[zeroshiki]

Sansa has no right to either and neither would her child. Riverrun would fall to Edmure's child with Roslin Frey and Winterfell is Brans. Only in Dorne do females have equal inheritance rights with males, everywhere else it goes to the eldest living male, even to cousins before it goes to a female.

...

Did you not read the post I was replying to? He said if Edmure and Blackfish died and I also assumed he meant Roslin's child. Also, no one knows Bran is alive since both he and Rickon are considered dead. So at this moment in the books, Sansa is the Winterfell heir.

 

[Enduin]

...

Did you not read the post I was replying to? He said if Edmure and Blackfish died and I also assumed he meant Roslin's child. Also, no one knows Bran is alive since both he and Rickon are considered dead. So at this moment in the books, Sansa is the Winterfell heir.

Yes I did, and that doesnt change anything, youre introducing criteria and assumptions that were not there, but regardless I'll play along, as far as everyone else is concerned Sansa is completely MIA and might as well be dead the same as her brothers. That is why the Lannisters are touting their Arya pretender around and having her marry Ramsay Bolton to inherit Winterfell.

But outside of these public beliefs Bran and Rickon are still very much alive, just as much as Sansa is. And sure if Littlefinger reveals her true identity to all after marrying her to Harry the Heir she'll be touted as the heir to Winterfell, and maybe Riverrun, but it wont actually mean anything in the end.

And even so in such a hypothetical situation where Sansa is all thats left of both houses, KingK is still correct in that Harry the Heir would rule them all. He may not be the actual heir to Winterfell and Riverrun but he would inherit them all when he married Sansa because shes only a girl.

 

[zeroshiki]

Yes I did, and that doesnt change anything, youre introducing criteria and assumptions that were not there, but regardless I'll play along, as far as everyone else is concerned Sansa is completely MIA and might as well be dead the same as her brothers. That is why the Lannisters are touting their Arya pretender around and having her marry Ramsay Bolton to inherit Winterfell.

But outside of these public beliefs Bran and Rickon are still very much alive, just as much as Sansa is. And sure if Littlefinger reveals her true identity to all after marrying her to Harry the Heir she'll be touted as the heir to Winterfell, and maybe Riverrun, but it wont actually mean anything in the end.

And even so in such a hypothetical situation where Sansa is all thats left of both houses, KingK is still correct in that Harry the Heir would rule them all. He may not be the actual heir to Winterfell and Riverrun but he would inherit them all when he married Sansa because shes only a girl.

If they did marry and Sansa stabbed Harry on their wedding night or something, she'd still be the heir to both Riverrun and Winterfell. Vice versa, Harry gets bupkiss without Sansa. So, no there is a difference.

 

[Sotha Sil]

Is there one think you guys dislike about the series? For me, it's the religion of Westeros. The Seven have always felt all too bland, in my opinion. Almost like an afterthought. Granted, religion is becoming more and more important, and maybe we'll get to learn a little more about it.

 

[Puddles]

Is there one think you guys dislike about the series? For me, it's the religion of Westeros. The Seven have always felt all too bland, in my opinion. Almost like an afterthought. Granted, religion is becoming more and more important, and maybe we'll get to learn a little more about it.

How long it's taking everything to get set up.

I really don't see how this "Meereenese knot" needed to be a problem. Getting Dany into Westeros doesn't need to be a challenge at all. She rules Meereen for awhile, her dragons get to a decent size quickly ("gods, but they grow fast"), but then she sees something that reminds her of Viserys and/or Drogo, and remembers her true purpose. Bam, done. She invades in Book 5. The Others invade in the second half of the book, and we get a nice, clean 7 book series with a solid 3 books for the main conflict instead of the 8-9 book series many are speculating we'll get (or a 7 book series where the main conflict doesn't get going until Book 6)."

 

[Piecake]

Is there one think you guys dislike about the series? For me, it's the religion of Westeros. The Seven have always felt all too bland, in my opinion. Almost like an afterthought. Granted, religion is becoming more and more important, and maybe we'll get to learn a little more about it.

The Seven do get the shaft when it comes to awesome, cool magic. I dislike how long GRRM takes to write his books. Oh, and the Iron Islands. Fuck them

 

[jon bones]

i love the iron islands, such awesome culture & atmosphere. when the Krakens wake up, shit will get really real. Euron's got some magic up his sleeve, too - which is pretty rad.

the seven will get cooler now that they're militarized but they are a bit bland compared to the red religion and the old gods

 

[luxarific]

I'm a little confused at people saying the Greyjoys are a sidestory. Doesn't Euron have a horn that will control dragons? I'm pretty sure that horn will end up being used to wrest control of Dany's dragons away from her (and of course we'll get several hundred pages of her wresting them back).

 

[Pollux]

I'm a little confused at people saying the Greyjoys are a sidestory. Doesn't Euron have a horn that will control dragons? I'm pretty sure that horn will end up being used to wrest control of Dany's dragons away from her (and of course we'll get several hundred pages of her wresting them back).

I would love it if she lost her dragons lol. just would be completely ironic.

 

[jon bones]

I'm a little confused at people saying the Greyjoys are a sidestory. Doesn't Euron have a horn that will control dragons? I'm pretty sure that horn will end up being used to wrest control of Dany's dragons away from her (and of course we'll get several hundred pages of her wresting them back).

i don't think it works for non-targaryans... it chars the lungs of the user, and only people who would be immune to fire (Dany) can use it effectively

Euron is very important, but i think he has more use of the Kraken horn than the Dragon horn.

 

[Red Nightmare]

Watching the new episode and I can't remember but what happened to zombie hand?

Also Varys traveling with a group of 'actors' in the free cities?

Lord Commander Mormont gave the wight's still-moving hand to Ser Alliser Thorne and sent him with it to King's Landing to try to convince the King there that the threat from beyond the Wall is real, and that the Night's Watch needs reinforcements.

Varys was part of a mummer's troupe in his youth. This helps explain his mastery of disguises and accents.

 

[Sir Garbageman]

I didn't mind the Brienne chapters that much but I found the Ironborn annoying. There are just too many of them and they're all pretty one dimensional. I fear the cast of characters have gotten a little too bloated at this point but hopefully things come down to earth a little over the next 3 books.

 

[bengraven]

Also the zombie hand decays as Tyrion forces Thorne to wait for an audience. Thorne doesn't show the council the hand until Clash, but by then it'd just bones.

 

[Pollux]

Also the zombie hand decays as Tyrion forces Thorne to wait for an audience. Thorne doesn't show the council the hand until Clash, but by then it'd just bones.

I wish they kept Thorne in the black cells...dude is such a douche.

 

[bengraven]

I wish they kept Thorne in the black cells...dude is such a douche.

Oh I have a feeling he's going to get his smug face dealt with soon. I mean, (ADWD)

Spoiler

his last hope/last friend ends up hanged in one of the first Jon chapters.

 

[Pollux]

Oh I have a feeling he's going to get his smug face dealt with soon. I mean, (ADWD)

Spoiler

his last hope/last friend ends up hanged in one of the first Jon chapters.

Yea...but still...

 

[bengraven]

I actually am angry with GRRM about Thorne. I'm not expecting him to be a Snape, but at the same time the character is fairly one-note: He hates his Snow. Yeah, maybe he was humiliated by Snow, but his grudge against him is a bit ridiculous. I'm hoping Jon has a moment where he gets his from Thorne but I hope it's more "if you don't like my orders you will die" and Thorne gives in rather than Jon killing him. If Jon kills him, it completes a cycle of a fairly one-note, cliche character. If Thorne gives in to Jon's rule or reveals that he's had a long bad history with bastards or young lords or maybe the Starks, then it would be a more interesting character I think. I want to know why he hates him, other than just to hate him.

And no, I don't want to find out that Thorne was in love with Jon's mother and they were best friends and he's been secretly protecting Jon this entire time blah blah blah, just because I pictured Rickman as Thorne.

I also pictured Rickman as Damphair so...

------

Some things I didn't notice in FEAST the first time probably because I was rushing through. For the record, these all come from the first Sam and Arya chapters that I've been reading just now:

1) the bit about Sam's father having chained him up in the cells by his neck and hands and legs after Sam asked to be a maester.

2) Stannis has gained the support of the Karstarks in the North. With the tensions after Robb killed their father, I wonder if this is going to open up more trouble.

3) the line Jon says about using Mance's "kingly" blood to to raise a dragon: "It's nonsense. Mance's blood is no more royal than mine own". I didn't know about RLJ at the time.

4) the teary filled goodbye to Jon by Gilly - when I first read it, I read it as a woman who's just worried about Mance's baby. Jon seems solemn as she barks out orders to him and cries. Now that I know why she's doing it, gives the scene more reverance.

5) same scene: Jon says to Sam that he remembers the first time he met Gilly she was against a wall scared that Ghost was going to rip her baby out. "She was scared of the wrong wolf wasn't she?" He was talking about himself. In other words: HE was the wolf who stole her baby in the end. Holy shit, mind blown.

6) that line from the first book again in Arya's chapter: "when the cold winds blow the lone wolf dies and pack survives". Words of wisdom that she needs to get back to her family or foreshadowing her death as her family gets back together?

These books were MADE to be read twice.


A lot of my not noticing this was because I hated the Sam chapters because I hated Sir Piggy at first. I still am not as impressed with him as everyone else, but then again he's another POV in the awesome as fuck Night's Watch and a loyal friend. Also I wanted Arya back in the North and I hate long descriptions of cities, so I kind of glanced over these chapters the first time.

 

[ultron87]

Since it came up in the spoiler thread I thought I'd ask you all here since I don't recall the specifics:

Did Cersei specifically plan for Robert to get killed on the hunt by having Lancel wine him up? Or was it just lucky?

I kind of saw it as the last of a series of random schemes by Cersei to get Robert accidentally killed that finally paid off.

 

[Blue Ninja]

Since it came up in the spoiler thread I thought I'd ask you all here since I don't recall the specifics:

Did Cersei specifically plan for Robert to get killed on the hunt by having Lancel wine him up? Or was it just lucky?

I kind of saw it as the last of a series of random schemes by Cersei to get Robert accidentally killed that finally paid off.

I think if the boar hadn't gutted him, she'd have found another way to end his reign prematurely.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

She was always planning on killing him, but Ned's knowledge of her children's paternity kind of kicked her into high gear. The extra potent wine may have been the only option immediately available to her.

 

[ultron87]

She was always planning on killing him, but Ned's confession kind of kicked her into high gear. The extra potent wine may have been the only option immediately available to her.

But weren't they already gone on the hunt by that point?

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

But weren't they already gone on the hunt by that point?

Yeah, but if I recally correctly there was some communication between the capital and the hunting party. Wasn't really shown on the show, but I think part of the hunting party also returned to the capital and informed them that the king wasn't returning immediately as there was a sighting of an extremely large boar. Maybe Robert sent for more wine? At least that's the only way I could rationalize Varys' comment that it was Ned's mercy that killed him.

Still, Cersei had intended for Robert to die in the melee also, so maybe the wine was always there.

 

[elrechazado]

Since it came up in the spoiler thread I thought I'd ask you all here since I don't recall the specifics:

Did Cersei specifically plan for Robert to get killed on the hunt by having Lancel wine him up? Or was it just lucky?

I kind of saw it as the last of a series of random schemes by Cersei to get Robert accidentally killed that finally paid off.

Read varys conversation with ned again - if it wasn't the wine it would be a fall, or a stray arrow, etc. The point as, ned's "mercy" to cersei is what forced her hand and killed robert.

 

[q_q]

Read varys conversation with ned again - if it wasn't the wine it would be a fall, or a stray arrow, etc. The point as, ned's "mercy" to cersei is what forced her hand and killed robert.

I still don't think that's true though. Varys thinks that's the case, but she was trying to get him in the melee before Ned told her to leave. I think as soon as she knew Ned was going to be Hand she started plotting the King's death because she knew Ned would start investigating like Jon Arryn did.

Here's something that came to my mind recently though regarding Jaime. When he left King's Landing after he attacked Ned, how was that not considered treason? The King was still very much alive and Jaime was a sworn member of the King's Guard. I find it highly unlikely the King would have given Jaime permission to go join his father's army to launch a war against the Tullys. Yet as far as I remember, no mention of him deserting his duties is ever made, they just casually mentioned he fled and that's that.

 

[LaserBuddha]

Here's something that came to my mind recently though regarding Jaime. When he left King's Landing after he attacked Ned, how was that not considered treason? The King was still very much alive and Jaime was a sworn member of the King's Guard. I find it highly unlikely the King would have given Jaime permission to go join his father's army to launch a war against the Tullys. Yet as far as I remember, no mention of him deserting his duties is ever made, they just casually mentioned he fled and that's that.

He's a peacock, you gotta let him fly.

 

[Matt]

I still don't think that's true though. Varys thinks that's the case, but she was trying to get him in the melee before Ned told her to leave. I think as soon as she knew Ned was going to be Hand she started plotting the King's death because she knew Ned would start investigating like Jon Arryn did.

It is. Cersei wanted Robert dead all along, but Ned's act of mercy meant that she had to kill him that very day, no more waiting and half-mesures.

 

[elrechazado]

It is. Cersei wanted Robert dead all along, but Ned's act of mercy meant that she had to kill him that very day, no more waiting and half-mesures.

Exactly.

 

[bengraven]

I thought the wine was meant to be strong enough that he couldn't think straight.

Lancel and Cercei were in it together.

 

[Timbuktu]

Part of me felt that Robert had a bit of a death wish, he was so sick of being king. The Robert on the show definitely made me fell that way, he was deiberately careless.

 

[elrechazado]

I thought the wine was meant to be strong enough that he couldn't think straight.

Lancel and Cercei were in it together.

It was, who said differently?