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[KingK]

Even if Balon still invades the North, without Theon taking Winterfell, a lot of things change. The supposed deaths of Bran and Rickon are what lead to Robb seeking comfort from Jeyne, and Catelyn releasing Jaime in the hopes of getting her daughters back.

If Theon doesn't capture Winterfell, Robb still has the Freys and Karstarks (and presumably the Boltons) on his side, and Jaime as a hostage, which would really change the landscape of the war.

This is another misconception. Robb marrying Jeyne was stupid, yes, but it did not cause the Frey's betrayal. The Red Wedding, or something similar, would have happened regardless. And losing the Karstarks because of releasing Jaime didn't help at all, but it wasn't a determining factor either.

If he had kept his word and married a Frey, the only difference would be that the Red Wedding would have been his own wedding rather than Edmure's. While Robb going back on his word no doubt pissed off Walder, the reason he betrayed Robb is that Robb had already lost at that point and he wanted to be on the winning side. Robb was taking his army back north to fight the Ironmen. Nobody outright said it, but it was implied that he was giving up the Riverlands because he had no way of holding them. The Freys knew that with Robb's army gone, they would just be destroyed by the Lannisters unless they managed to convince Tywin they were on his side. And I don't doubt for a second that Tywin would have still given the go-ahead on the RW even if they still had Jaime.

 

[chiQ]

This is another misconception. Robb marrying Jeyne was stupid, yes, but it did not cause the Frey's betrayal. The Red Wedding, or something similar, would have happened regardless. And losing the Karstarks because of releasing Jaime didn't help at all, but it wasn't a determining factor either.

If he had kept his word and married a Frey, the only difference would be that the Red Wedding would have been his own wedding rather than Edmure's. While Robb going back on his word no doubt pissed off Walder, the reason he betrayed Robb is that Robb had already lost at that point and he wanted to be on the winning side. Robb was taking his army back north to fight the Ironmen. Nobody outright said it, but it was implied that he was giving up the Riverlands because he had no way of holding them. The Freys knew that with Robb's army gone, they would just be destroyed by the Lannisters unless they managed to convince Tywin they were on his side. And I don't doubt for a second that Tywin would have still given the go-ahead on the RW even if they still had Jaime.

I don't agree with this at all.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Walder Frey is a bastard, but his biggest goal in life is to marry off his children to prominent families. The chance to have his daughter or granddaughter be a queen would be too big for him to want to betray Robb.

On top of that, the wedding likely wouldn't have taken place until after the war was over. The only reason they had to do the wedding before returning to the North was because they needed the Freys back on their side. Had Robb never betrayed the Freys, they likely don't even go back to the Twins until much later, and there's not really an opportunity to pull something like that off.

I don't think the Freys are inclined to betray Robb if they haven't had their honor prickled, and Twyin would have been loathe to do something so bold while Jaime was still in custody. A combination of factors which included the sack of Winterfell, Robb betraying the Freys, and the release of Jaime/execution of Karstark lead to what happened. If Winterfell never gets captured, most of the folks who moved against Robb don't have the motivation to do so.

 

[KingK]

Robb would have still had to cross the Twins while heading back North. It may not even have been a wedding, just some feast, or maybe Walder Frey insists that he get married now for some reason or whatever, but they still would have had to cross the river to get back North, and that means entering the Twins.

And do you people honestly believe Walder fucking Frey would have just stayed loyal to Robb even when it was obvious he had completely lost control of the Riverlands? At that point, the very most Robb could hope for was winning back the North and holding onto it until Winter comes and makes it impossible to invade. Having one of his daughters marry Robb wouldn't mean shit once the Lannisters wipe out him and his family for being traitors to the crown.

edit: Also, my timing may be off, but I seem to remember Tywin sending a letter during a Tyrion chapter which we are supposed to believe had something to do with the Red Wedding (something about "Some wars are won with words") before he ever learned of Jaime's escape.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Robb would have still had to cross the Twins while heading back North. It may not even have been a wedding, just some feast, or maybe Walder Frey insists that he get married now for some reason or whatever, but they still would have had to cross the river to get back North, and that means entering the Twins.

And do you people honestly believe Walder fucking Frey would have just stayed loyal to Robb even when it was obvious he had completely lost control of the Riverlands? At that point, the very most Robb could hope for was winning back the North and holding onto it until Winter comes and makes it impossible to invade. Having one of his daughters marry Robb wouldn't mean shit once the Lannisters wipe out him and his family for being traitors to the crown.

edit: Also, my timing may be off, but I seem to remember Tywin sending a letter during a Tyrion chapter which we are supposed to believe had something to do with the Red Wedding (something about "Some wars are won with words") before he ever learned of Jaime's escape.

I've been wondering this the past 15 minutes or so. I forget the chronology.

 

[Puddles]

Thing is, if he doesn't lose Winterfell, maybe the Boltons stay loyal. If he still has them and the Karstarks, Duskendale doesn't happen, and his army is much larger. At that point, maybe he can theoretically hold the Riverlands long enough to force a stalemate, especially since Joffrey and Tywin still would have died, and Kevan would probably have accepted a truce.

 

[KingK]

Thing is, if he doesn't lose Winterfell, maybe the Boltons stay loyal. If he still has them and the Karstarks, Duskendale doesn't happen, and his army is much larger. At that point, maybe he can theoretically hold the Riverlands long enough to force a stalemate, especially since Joffrey and Tywin still would have died, and Kevan would probably have accepted a truce.

Why would the Boltons stay loyal just because he had Winterfell? And the Karstarks only had some 2-3 thousand men, iirc. Hardly enough to make a big difference. Robb's war was lost (at the very least the Riverlands were lost) as soon as Stannis lost on the Blackwater and the Tyrell/Lannister alliance was secured.

From that point on, Bolton and Frey have no reason to stay loyal to Robb if they were considering betrayal.

 

[tmdorsey]

edit: Also, my timing may be off, but I seem to remember Tywin sending a letter during a Tyrion chapter which we are supposed to believe had something to do with the Red Wedding (something about "Some wars are won with words") before he ever learned of Jaime's escape.

Well we know Tywin was consorting with Jeyne's mom and Roose or Walder. I'm guessing the letter was going to one of those 3.

For the record, I disagree with you on Frey betraying Robb even if he hadn't married Jeyne just for the simple fact that Tywin got Jeyne's mom involved as well.

 

[Dresden]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36592126&postcount=410

legit or dick?

 

[Pollux]

I'm looking at this map...

And holy shit is Dany's whole journey just a big fucking circle jerk. She's also basically gone from Dorne to the Wall and back again. And guess what? She hasn't really done a fucking thing.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36592126&postcount=410

legit or dick?

Dick.

 

[Chris R]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36592126&postcount=410

legit or dick?

dick, because why would we have any reason to question Ned being Jon's father with the 11 episodes shown so far?

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36592126&postcount=410

legit or dick?

Probably dick. But who knows. Someone in there also called Mance Rayder the King Beyond the Wall. I don't think that specific title was mentioned in the episode. Could be coincidence, but again, who knows.

 

[apana]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36592126&postcount=410

legit or dick?

Well unless you are willing to play detective GAF and find something that would prove he knows more than he is letting on, you might as well ignore it because we can't say for sure.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Probably dick. But who knows. Someone in there also called Mance Rayder the King Beyond the Wall. I don't think that specific title was mentioned in the episode. Could be coincidence, but again, who knows.

Mance as King Beyond the Wall was mentioned in this past Sunday's episode.

 

[SmZA]

Someone in there also called Mance Rayder the King Beyond the Wall. I don't think that specific title was mentioned in the episode.

It was.

 

[Dragon]

I thought it was agreed upon in this thread that Jon Snow is the son of Lyanna and Rhaegar? Or are we strictly talking about what's been revealed in the show so far?

 

[IAmtheFMan]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36592126&postcount=410

legit or dick?

Meh, maybe sorta both. Just based on that post, Dick. If he were reading the book of GoT yeah it'd be plasuible, but there's not nearly enough stuff in the series to make any sort of conjecture like this (especially without any Tower of Joy background.) Although looking at his other posts, he seems legitimately in the dark about other stuff; maybe one of his ASoIAF buddies told him about that theory or something.

Anyways, back to what brought me in here.

I just had an interesting conversation with my friend, who last season sent me this text message after Baelor:

Fuck game of throne. Fuck that show fuck u for getting me into it and fuck that shitty lil fucking brat I can't wait till he fucking dies a slow death.

It took him like a week to get over it. I asked him about the episode last night, and he says that he's totally on Team Stark, and his favorite character is Robb after last night, and how he's honorable like Ned, but shrewd, blah blah. He also forewarned me that if anything happened to him that he would be so insanely pissed off it wouldn't be funny.

I've said it before but the Red Wedding on the show is gonna hurt WAY MORE than the books. Martin never had Robb be a POV for a reason, and he mainly does his own thing in Clash where there's a long period of time where we don't hear from him. This won't happen in the show, and he is essentially being set up as the defacto Stark "hero"... and it's gonna sting. Oh how it will sting.

Anyways maybe I'll have a party next season and livecast the inevitable "Rains of Castamere" episode with my buddy.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Mace as King Beyond the Wall was mentioned in this past Sunday's episode.

It was.

Ahh. Nevermind then.

 

[siddx]

I was thinking that while watching last night's episode as well. The red wedding has potential to really push viewers away. Anyone watching and expecting your typical story of hero rises, beats the bad guy and avenges his father is going to have an apocalyptic meltdown. I get the sense that the "show only" viewers will handle it far poorer than the ones who read it in the novel.

 

[Dragon]

I was thinking that while watching last night's episode as well. The red wedding has potential to really push viewers away. Anyone watching and expecting your typical story of hero rises, beats the bad guy and avenges his father is going to have an apocalyptic meltdown. I get the sense that the "show only" viewers will handle it far poorer than the ones who read it in the novel.

Not to mention people's reactions to an undead Catelyn Stark. I don't understand why she couldn't have been left dead myself. Beric was a much better character.

 

[ezrarh]

I've said it before but the Red Wedding on the show is gonna hurt WAY MORE than the books. Martin never had Robb be a POV for a reason, and he mainly does his own thing in Clash where there's a long period of time where we don't hear from him. This won't happen in the show, and he is essentially being set up as the defacto Stark "hero"... and it's gonna sting. Oh how it will sting.

Anyways maybe I'll have a party next season and livecast the inevitable "Rains of Castamere" episode with my buddy.

The reactions on youtube are going to be amazing. But I agree, the Red Wedding will hurt and leave many bitter viewers. Heck, I'm still bitter about it to this day.

And fuck the Greyjoys. (I was banned when you guys were bitching about Balon again)

 

[apana]

Robb death will be amazing on screen. I don't want them to be gentle about it. Show the whole thing with Grey Wind being killed and the head getting ripped off and attached to Robb's body. Robb's body with the wolf head should be the ending shot of Season 3.

 

[IAmtheFMan]

I know we've had this discussion in this thread, but I also still think if they're hellbent on doing The Red Wedding in S3 (with the split and all) they need to somehow finagle it so that the season doesn't END on this, and have some levity as the last episode like Joffrey's death or something.

 

[Pollux]

Robb death will be amazing on screen. I don't want them to be gentle about it. Show the whole thing with Grey Wind being killed and the head getting ripped off and attached to Robb's body. Robb's body with the wolf head should be the ending shot of Season 3.

 

[apana]

I think the red wedding will be the last episode of season 3, and I think it should be. They seem to be accelerating Robb's story and giving him prominence for a reason. Season 4 with Jon saving the day at the Wall and becoming lord commander should lift everyone's spirits, along with Joffrey's death.

 

[siddx]

Not to mention people's reactions to an undead Catelyn Stark. I don't understand why she couldn't have been left dead myself. Beric was a much better character.

Even more than that, if you insist on bringing her back, why make her such a horrifically unlikable unreasonable unpleasant character. I suppose it's the only way she could be portrayed after everything, but that just leads back to "then why even bother?"

Shit, might as well have brought back rob and made him some freakish abomination with a wolf head running through the woods eating people. It's just as absurd and pointless. But at least it would be amusing.

 

[Steelyuhas]

It took him like a week to get over it. I asked him about the episode last night, and he says that he's totally on Team Stark, and his favorite character is Robb after last night, and how he's honorable like Ned, but shrewd, blah blah. He also forewarned me that if anything happened to him that he would be so insanely pissed off it wouldn't be funny.

I've said it before but the Red Wedding on the show is gonna hurt WAY MORE than the books. Martin never had Robb be a POV for a reason, and he mainly does his own thing in Clash where there's a long period of time where we don't hear from him. This won't happen in the show, and he is essentially being set up as the defacto Stark "hero"... and it's gonna sting. Oh how it will sting.

Anyways maybe I'll have a party next season and livecast the inevitable "Rains of Castamere" episode with my buddy.

I've read all the books, and I'll still all Team Stark for life. Robb in the show is amazing though, he just owns the screen (incredible in his scenes last night). The Red Wedding in the show is going to be beyond painful for so many viewers.

Notice that not just Robb, but Martin doesn't have any of his Kings be POV characters. Robert, nor any of the kings in the War of Five Kings were/are POV characters.

 

[apana]

Even more than that, if you insist on bringing her back, why make her such a horrifically unlikable unreasonable unpleasant character. I suppose it's the only way she could be portrayed after everything, but that just leads back to "then why even bother?"

Shit, might as well have brought back rob and made him some freakish abomination with a wolf head running through the woods eating people. It's just as absurd and pointless. But at least it would be amusing.

It's one of those things that is so stupid that I'm sure George must have had a good reason for doing it. I'm not sure, but can't they do the reveal of Catelyn when they are adapting Feast for Crows and Brienne meets her zombie version for the first time. Seems like it would fit better there and be a good surprise.

I've read all the books, and I'll still all Team Stark for life. Robb in the show is amazing though, he just owns the screen (incredible in his scenes last night). The Red Wedding in the show is going to be beyond painful for so many viewers.

Notice that not just Robb, but Martin doesn't have any of his Kings be POV characters. Robert, nor any of the kings in the War of Five Kings were/are POV characters.

I think George said that is potentially the only change he would make if he had to write it again. He would give Robb at least one POV chapter.

 

[IAmtheFMan]

I think the red wedding will be the last episode of season 3, and I think it should be. They seem to be accelerating Robb's story and giving him prominence for a reason. Season 4 with Jon saving the day at the Wall and becoming lord commander should lift everyone's spirits, along with Joffrey's death.

Yeah, but that's assuming a tv only audience returns 8 months after a show has basically shit on them and said "FUCK YOU." I think it'd be the greatest troll ever, I just think the mediums are too different for it to be like you suggest.

 

[Emerson]

This is another misconception. Robb marrying Jeyne was stupid, yes, but it did not cause the Frey's betrayal. The Red Wedding, or something similar, would have happened regardless. And losing the Karstarks because of releasing Jaime didn't help at all, but it wasn't a determining factor either.

If he had kept his word and married a Frey, the only difference would be that the Red Wedding would have been his own wedding rather than Edmure's. While Robb going back on his word no doubt pissed off Walder, the reason he betrayed Robb is that Robb had already lost at that point and he wanted to be on the winning side. Robb was taking his army back north to fight the Ironmen. Nobody outright said it, but it was implied that he was giving up the Riverlands because he had no way of holding them. The Freys knew that with Robb's army gone, they would just be destroyed by the Lannisters unless they managed to convince Tywin they were on his side. And I don't doubt for a second that Tywin would have still given the go-ahead on the RW even if they still had Jaime.

George?

 

[electroshockwave]

I think George said that is potentially the only change he would make if he had to write it again. He would give Robb at least one POV chapter.

But what would that chapter cover? We know what happened between him and Jeyne and I got the feeling that his distance from Grey Wind in SOS was because he was having wolf dreams too and was a afraid of it. The one thing I would have liked to see get expanded upon is his cunning before he comes a leader- in GOT it seemed that Jon was the smarter one (convincing Ned to let the kids keep the direwolves) and Robb just seemed hotheaded when Joffrey taunted him about duelling- but this could have been shown from another character's perspective.

 

[Basileus777]

George?

I would hope George wouldn't be posting something that wrong.

 

[Steelyuhas]

But what would that chapter cover? We know what happened between him and Jeyne and I got the feeling that his distance from Grey Wind in SOS was because he was having wolf dreams too and was a afraid of it. The one thing I would have liked to see get expanded upon is his cunning before he comes a leader- in GOT it seemed that Jon was the smarter one (convincing Ned to let the kids keep the direwolves) and Robb just seemed hotheaded when Joffrey taunted him about duelling- but this could have been shown from another character's perspective.

Do you think that Jon actually saw the significance of the direwolves at the time? I always just assumed that he tried to convince Ned to keep them because Bran clearly wanted to keep one.

Robb's distance from Grey Wind was so frustrating in ASOS. At that point, even Cat could clearly see the the connection between the wolf and each Stark. I assume you are right about probably fearing the wolf dreams and that being the reason he distanced himself from it though.

 

[Iksenpets]

Why would the Boltons stay loyal just because he had Winterfell? And the Karstarks only had some 2-3 thousand men, iirc. Hardly enough to make a big difference. Robb's war was lost (at the very least the Riverlands were lost) as soon as Stannis lost on the Blackwater and the Tyrell/Lannister alliance was secured.

From that point on, Bolton and Frey have no reason to stay loyal to Robb if they were considering betrayal.

The Boltons have no reason to rebel without the Stark line extinguished. They're hated by the other Northmen. No Northern houses would be loyal to them if there were a legitimate Stark heir to rally behind, and even if there weren't, some other Northern house would try to seize Winterfell were it not for the fact that the Red Wedding and Duskendale left Bolton as the only lord with much of an army to his name. Then he has Frey and Lannister support behind him as well. It's only because Theon removed Bran and Rickon from the equation that Bolton is able to rise in the North. That's why Manderly places so much importance on finding Rickon.

 

[KingK]

Not to mention people's reactions to an undead Catelyn Stark. I don't understand why she couldn't have been left dead myself. Beric was a much better character.

I don't understand why people don't like UnCat. Her reveal in the epilogue is still to this day one of my favorite scenes of the series.

I think the red wedding will be the last episode of season 3, and I think it should be. They seem to be accelerating Robb's story and giving him prominence for a reason. Season 4 with Jon saving the day at the Wall and becoming lord commander should lift everyone's spirits, along with Joffrey's death.

You won't have a season 4 if you end season 3 on the Red Wedding because nobody will want to keep watching. Just about every non-book reader will say fuck this show and stop. Hell most of the book readers mention how they considered saying "fuck this book" and stopping after the RW, I know I did. It was only the redemption of Jon saving the wall/becoming Lord Commander, Joffrey dying, Tywin dying, and UnCat hanging Freys that made it tolerable.

edit:

The Boltons have no reason to rebel without the Stark line extinguished. They're hated by the other Northmen. No Northern houses would be loyal to them if there were a legitimate Stark heir to rally behind, and even if there weren't, some other Northern house would try to seize Winterfell were it not for the fact that the Red Wedding and Duskendale left Bolton as the only lord with much of an army to his name. Then he has Frey and Lannister support behind him as well. It's only because Theon removed Bran and Rickon from the equation that Bolton is able to rise in the North. That's why Manderly places so much importance on finding Rickon.

That's actually a good point. Maybe Bolton would have stayed loyal if Wintefell hadn't been sacked.

I still see no way that the Freys stay loyal though, even with Robb marrying his daughter. The Riverlands were lost and everybody knew it. That's the real reason the Freys betrayed Robb.

 

[ZeroRay]

Though what was to stop Ramsay from sacking Winterfell anyway and blame the Ironborn?

Winterfell wasn't well guarded.

 

[Basileus777]

Though what was to stop Ramsay from sacking Winterfell anyway and blame the Ironborn?

Winterfell wasn't well guarded.

Without Theon's plan to draw away the defenders and his stunt to get over the walls, he'd have to besiege it, or try assaulting it from the outside. Good luck doing that and keeping it a secret. And you can't blame the Ironborn when they haven't strayed from the coast.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

You won't have a season 4 if you end season 3 on the Red Wedding because nobody will want to keep watching. Just about every non-book reader will say fuck this show and stop. Hell most of the book readers mention how they considered saying "fuck this book" and stopping after the RW, I know I did. It was only the redemption of Jon saving the wall/becoming Lord Commander, Joffrey dying, Tywin dying, and UnCat hanging Freys that made it tolerable.

I agree. You can't end the season with the Red Wedding. It's a demoralizing way to end the season, and it works in the book because you could keep reading and see some new things happen.

That's actually a good point. Maybe Bolton would have stayed loyal if Wintefell hadn't been sacked.

I still see no way that the Freys stay loyal though, even with Robb marrying his daughter. The Riverlands were lost and everybody knew it. That's the real reason the Freys betrayed Robb.

I think with Bolton still loyal, the Freys wouldn't have had the conspirators necessary to pull anything off. The Riverland situation wouldn't be ideal, but with the North not in as much disarray (presumably Rodrik is still alive and can be fighting off the Ironborn to some extent), Robb probably wouldn't have needed to take his whole force up north, and could have left a strong force in the Riverlands.

Above all else, I don't think Walder Frey has the spine to pull off such a bold move on his own. He probably would have kept his options open, but without Roose around to back him up, I don't believe he would be willing to make that move.

 

[AlimNassor]

I was thinking that while watching last night's episode as well. The red wedding has potential to really push viewers away. Anyone watching and expecting your typical story of hero rises, beats the bad guy and avenges his father is going to have an apocalyptic meltdown. I get the sense that the "show only" viewers will handle it far poorer than the ones who read it in the novel.

What? People think this is about good guys vs bad guys? The whole show is advertised as The Sopranos meets Middle Earth. But, i agree the Red Wedding will be the death kneel of the show due to the next few seasons being a bit slower paced.

 

[Basileus777]

If Robb doesn't marry Jeyne, the Red Wedding is a complete non-starter. The Freys likely urge Robb to bend the knee, and maybe they switch sides, but that massacre doesn't happen without Robb's betrayal. Remember that most of the Freys were in on it, even if Walder Frey wanted to do it, he wouldn't be able to convince others without the anger towards Robb for breaking his agreement.

 

[Supermanisdead]

How far apart are the Red Wedding and Joffrey's death? Could they do the episodes back to back? I can't see them ending with Robb's death and Joffrey, Tywin etc. still on the throne. I know this season is gonna piss off a lot of people when Renly dies. Most of the people I know are rooting for a Renly/Robb alliance.

 

[Basileus777]

How far apart are the Red Wedding and Joffrey's death? Could they do the episodes back to back? I can't see them ending with Robb's death and Joffrey, Tywin etc. still on the throne. I know this season is gonna piss off a lot of people when Renly dies. Most of the people I know are rooting for a Renly/Robb alliance.

They'd have to rush things really badly for that to happen. You'd need an episode just for the fallout of the Red Wedding.

 

[ZeroRay]

Without Theon's plan to draw away the defenders and his stunt to get over the walls, he'd have to besiege it, or try assaulting it from the outside. Good luck doing that and keeping it a secret. And you can't blame the Ironborn when they haven't strayed from the coast.

Ah, I see.

Ramsay does have a cruel sort of cunning and I was thinking he could do the same thing Theon did, but actually put the whole place to the sword like Asha told Theon at the end of CoK.

They'd have to rush things really badly for that to happen. You'd need an episode just for the fallout of the Red Wedding.

I'm really thinking they could go for a 2 hour season 3 finale culminating with Joffrey's wedding. The page count is relative to two episodes from what they've shown in the series so far.

 

[bengraven]

It's gotta end with Tyrion escaping on the boat. It won't end with Joffrey's death. I predict that happening on the second to last episode. The last episode will be the aftermath with Sansa escaping right away in the episode and Tyrion being visited by his father, who basically talks about how horrible he is. Then the last scenes are him shooting his father, then escaping on a boat.

Which would make the RW...what, the last scene of episode 8?

Motherfuck, they need to give us at least 12 episodes next season. Come on, they gained a TON of viewers in the off-season.

 

[Basileus777]

Ah, I see.

Ramsay does have a cruel sort of cunning and I was thinking he could do the same thing Theon did, but actually put the whole place to the sword like Asha told Theon at the end of CoK.



I'm really thinking they could go for a 2 hour season 3 finale culminating with Joffrey's wedding. The page count is relative to two episodes from what they've shown in the series so far.

Ramsay is cunning, but he's probably never been to Winterfell before and doesn't have an army of Ironborn to draw out the defenders with.

 

[Altazor]

How far apart are the Red Wedding and Joffrey's death? Could they do the episodes back to back? I can't see them ending with Robb's death and Joffrey, Tywin etc. still on the throne. I know this season is gonna piss off a lot of people when Renly dies. Most of the people I know are rooting for a Renly/Robb alliance.

9 chapters, in which other characters learn about the RW and discuss it, also Bran and the Reeds going through the Black Gate, also the start of the Battle of the Wall, and Daenerys finding out about Arstan's real identity and Jorah's betrayal.

 

[ezrarh]

It's gotta end with Tyrion escaping on the boat. It won't end with Joffrey's death. I predict that happening on the second to last episode. The last episode will be the aftermath with Sansa escaping right away in the episode and Tyrion being visited by his father, who basically talks about how horrible he is. Then the last scenes are him shooting his father, then escaping on a boat.

Which would make the RW...what, the last scene of episode 8?

Motherfuck, they need to give us at least 12 episodes next season. Come on, they gained a TON of viewers in the off-season.

We need Gregor vs Oberyn Martell during Tyrion's trial as well. There's no way they can skip that scene.

I don't envy the writers' jobs for the upcoming season.

 

[sharbhund]

It's gotta end with Tyrion escaping on the boat. It won't end with Joffrey's death. I predict that happening on the second to last episode. The last episode will be the aftermath with Sansa escaping right away in the episode and Tyrion being visited by his father, who basically talks about how horrible he is. Then the last scenes are him shooting his father, then escaping on a boat.

Which would make the RW...what, the last scene of episode 8?

Motherfuck, they need to give us at least 12 episodes next season. Come on, they gained a TON of viewers in the off-season.

Tyrion escaping on the boat would be the end of season 4, if they split ASOS into 2 seasons. I still think they should end season 3 with the RW, and maybe have episode 9 of season 3 be Dany's slave rebellion if you want to give people hope.

 

[Cornballer]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36592126&postcount=410

legit or dick?

I noticed that along with this one earlier today. He's either very good (lucky?) at guessing or he's being a bit of an ass.

 

[aceface]

I was guessing R+L=J after reading book one and the whole "Promise me Ned" thing...however the show does not drop nearly as many clues so it's more of a stretch.

And I think the Freys would have stayed loyal to Robb if not for the betrayal with Jeyne Westerling...there's that one scene from Arya's perspective in Harrenhall where you can see they are getting the news of what happened, and they are pissed. The Frey kid who is supposed to marry Arya is there and he's crying cause he won't be able to marry his princess now...of course she's right there, that part is hilarious.