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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
- Thread starter Pollux
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Even if they split up ASOS into two seasons the non-book readers are going to be pushed pretty hard. The amount of drama in ASOS is pretty staggering:
The Red Wedding, particularly the disturbing description of Cat going insane after watching Robb die. Followed by her throat being cut.
Joffrey's assassination.
The Shaetrayal of Tyrion and his revenge against her and Tywin.
Jaime's hand getting chopped off.
Selmy joining up with Dany and her telling Jorah to GTFO.
Lysa Arryn getting a free ride through the Moon Door.
The Hound killing Dondarrion and his resurrection.
Mountain vs. Viper.
The battle at the Wall, the death of Ygritte.
There are going to be meltdowns.
Oh and the most important person of all:
STRONG BELWAS
The Red Wedding, particularly the disturbing description of Cat going insane after watching Robb die. Followed by her throat being cut.
Joffrey's assassination.
The Shaetrayal of Tyrion and his revenge against her and Tywin.
Jaime's hand getting chopped off.
Selmy joining up with Dany and her telling Jorah to GTFO.
Lysa Arryn getting a free ride through the Moon Door.
The Hound killing Dondarrion and his resurrection.
Mountain vs. Viper.
The battle at the Wall, the death of Ygritte.
There are going to be meltdowns.
Oh and the most important person of all:
STRONG BELWAS
Except she then revealed that she didn't burn Mance just to try and help him.
I won't deny, Melisandre is kind of fucked in the head - she is a little too devoted to her god. But sometimes you need to work with things or people you don't like. Jon refused to, and he paid the price.
I think he died, but if he did, I'm guessing Melisandre would try to bring him back to life. I would imagine that would give him a loop-hole out of the watch, if he wanted it (Which at the end, he seemed to).
But yeah, the more I think about it, the more I believe that he fully deserved to die.
I don't think Jon's reactions were unreasonable. He has a sort of instinctive mistrust of her due to her magic and baby burning hobbies, and while WE know she means well, even if Jon believed what she said, he probably didn't trust that she was there to help him specifically.
Besides, as I said, her predictions didn't come out as she said them, so she was wrong in his eyes. You have to accept that some people are more reluctant to believe in certain things, even if you'd be more willing to accept it.
Anyway, does anyone else really not feel like watching the TV show that much more. They capture certain things very well, but they miss others. For example, I'm not a fan that they gave Robb this romance with Jeyne. In the books, I imagined that he only broke his honor because he was in severe physical and emotional turmoil, from his wound in battle and recent news of his brothers death, which is when Jeyne swooped in and offered her comfort, only to actually fall in love with him later on. What they did in the show isn't bad per se, but I don't feel it's true to Robb's character because he lets himself fall in love when he knows he shouldn't and willingly breaks his honor. This is not something I would think Book Robb would do.
I don't mean to sound like a book purist, because the show is great, I will admit that readily. But it's a different vision than the one I had when reading the book and that irks me.
Besides, as I said, her predictions didn't come out as she said them, so she was wrong in his eyes. You have to accept that some people are more reluctant to believe in certain things, even if you'd be more willing to accept it.
Anyway, does anyone else really not feel like watching the TV show that much more. They capture certain things very well, but they miss others. For example, I'm not a fan that they gave Robb this romance with Jeyne. In the books, I imagined that he only broke his honor because he was in severe physical and emotional turmoil, from his wound in battle and recent news of his brothers death, which is when Jeyne swooped in and offered her comfort, only to actually fall in love with him later on. What they did in the show isn't bad per se, but I don't feel it's true to Robb's character because he lets himself fall in love when he knows he shouldn't and willingly breaks his honor. This is not something I would think Book Robb would do.
I don't mean to sound like a book purist, because the show is great, I will admit that readily. But it's a different vision than the one I had when reading the book and that irks me.
Isn't this AFFC?
Nope! One of the last chapters in ASOS.
And later followed by zombie Catelyn .
actually, the LAST chapter in ASOS just before the epilogue.
IAmtheFMan
Member
Yep, one of my favorite chapters in the series mainly because of this:
Yeah Sophie's gonna be quite a bit older by the time they get to this, but I can see her playing it really well.
Steelyuhas
Member
Yep, one of my favorite chapters in the series mainly because of this:
Yeah Sophie's gonna be quite a bit older by the time they get to this, but I can see her playing it really well.
That scene is one of the favs in the series.
FunkyPajamas
Member
My problem with Jon's death (as well as Robb's) is not so much that the former didn't heed Melissandre's warnings, but that he ignored his own Direwolf's restlessness; same with Robb, but specially with Jon since he had already connected with Ghost and should have been aware that something was wrong.
Yes, I know in the book he thought that Ghost was restless because of the Warg but that's what bothers me. I would be keeping that Direwolf by my side if somebody had warned me of "daggers in the dark" and after seeing how people were less than happy with me.
You know nothing, Jon Snow.
BTW, I turned the last page on the fifth book last week.
I still hurt.
Yes, I know in the book he thought that Ghost was restless because of the Warg but that's what bothers me. I would be keeping that Direwolf by my side if somebody had warned me of "daggers in the dark" and after seeing how people were less than happy with me.
You know nothing, Jon Snow.
BTW, I turned the last page on the fifth book last week.
I still hurt.BTW, I turned the last page on the fifth book last week.
Kevan deserved better.
Here's how I figure they may do it:
(I'm assuming there will be 10 episodes)
Season 3:
-Arya meets up with the Brotherhood early on, spending most of the season with them, before Beric and the Hound duel and Beric is resurrected in episode 6, she'd leave in episode 8, only to be captured by the Hound.
-Jon Snow meets up with Mance in the first episode, and then spends the majority of the season just making his way towards the wall, getting his loyalty tested in various ways, and falling for Ygritte. His story would end with their scaling of the wall, leaving most of his action sequences to season 4. Have them come across the Fist of the First Men around Episode 3 or 4, and cut to Sam and the retreat to Crastor's Keep. The coup could happen about midway through the season, and then have Sam meet Coldhands in the finale to fan the flames of speculation.
-Jaime's hand gets chopped in episode 8 he sends his regards to Robb Stark, and then he and Brienne arrive in King's Landing in the finale.
-Dany makes the decision to head to Astapor in the first episode, and I suppose the first few episodes will be like season 2, with her not playing a large part, as she'll be on the ship heading towards Pentos/Astapor. Her taking of Astapor would happen in the finale, since it seems like the show's getting into a theme of ending each season with an emphasis on her dragons.
-I can see there being a lot more focus on Robb in season 3 in order to get the audience invested in him. Ideally, his war against the Lannisters would still be going in his favor, so that everyone already knows he is going to lose by the Red Wedding. There needs to be that hope that he can still win to make the RW all the more crushing. Episode 9 will probably focus on the Red Wedding, as the penultimate episode usually contains the most pivotal moment of the season. The only thing I'm worried about is how they'll mask the surprise of the RW, while building anticipation for the episode. It was easy this year since everyone knew they were building up to Blackwater, whereas they can't make the Tully-Frey wedding the center of promotion for the episode without people starting to think.
-Davos and Stannis's story in season 3 would mainly concern their recovery from the defeat, and Davos' imprisonment. I suppose they could focus on him plotting against Melisandre early on, and end the season with his release and being instated as as Hand of the King.
-In King's landing, they would include Tywin taking over, Joffrey's continued prickery, and Sansa's marriage to Tyrion.
Season 4:
-Arya would continue with the Hound, hopefully building up audience sympathy for him, before he dies about midway through. Arya's story ends with her going to Braavos.
-Most of Jon Snow's important storylines would be moved to this season, as he would be the main character of the season. This season would have the attack on Castle Black early on, the penultimate episode would focus on the main battle and Stannis arriving, and the finale would have him being elected Lord Commander.
-Joffrey's wedding would take place and Tyrion would be imprisoned. Littlefinger and Sansa would escape in the same episode. The Oberyn-Mountain duel would take place near the end, and would coincide with Littlefinger admitting his part in Joffrey's murder to Sansa, and Lysa's reveal about Jon Arryn's death, before her own.
-Dany's storyline would basically be the same as the books, in that she goes about conquering Slavers bay.
-Stannis and Davos' storyline would initially concern their poor position, transition to Edric Storm, before finally leading to their aiding the Night's Watch.
I think they can move Tyrion's escape and murder of Shae and Tywin to Season 5, just to add some more action to that season to make sure there's not too much of a letdown.
Basileus777
Member
Things will have to be restructured a bit so that all the action and big events doesn't get cramped into season 4. Just cutting the book in half will leave season 3 too bare.
I think I'm still on board with RW in episode 9, but the one major problem is it doesn't leave enough story for Arya in season 4. I suppose they could flesh the latter part of her story out a bit, they've show this season they're not afraid of doing that with Dany, and it would mean we'd get more Hound which is always good. I hope they come up with a scene which serves the same purpose as the tickler stabbing, since won't be getting that. Maybe they could spend some of season 4 setting up that, showing her transformation into a cold blooded killer since we haven't seen much of that yet. All depends on how much of Feast/Dance ends up in season 4 I suppose, I still don't think Storm can fill 2 full seasons by itself.
Basileus777
Member
You could move Arya to Braavos in season 4, but then you'd run into problems of her having nothing to do in future seasons. I don't think splitting ASOS into two books works unless you restructure things so more happens in season 3 and then move AFFC stuff into season 4. The first half of ASOS is all set up and the 2nd half is a deluge of climaxes and big events, that won't work as well if split in two.
Basileus777
Member
I wonder how much of Dorne makes it into the show. Things will be getting insanely crazy in terms of cast and location at that point and they are going to need to make cuts. The Iron Islands have at least already been developed, Dorne is a complete unknown.
Holy shit, this guy is too funny!
Amazing!
There's also A Read Of Ice and Fire. It's more serious and worth reading, but not nearly as funny.
http://www.tor.com/features/series/a-read-of-ice-and-fire
Yeah, Feast/Dance is going to be a bloodbath in terms cuts. Just from a production standpoint they're impossible to film. I remember a quote from D&D that stuck with me about how if they cast every charcter from the books they spend their entire budget on actor wages, and that's THIS season, imagine later books where every pov has their own ensemble cast.
Dorne is such a big story that it feels too big to cut, but at the same time with all the other stuff going it is kind of the first head on the block. After Storm they might just have to throw the books out the window and pull a bunch of plot gymnastics to have more stories merge and intersect. Part of me thinks this would be the best thing for the show anyway, it already has a growing problem of lack of focus.
Dorne is such a big story that it feels too big to cut, but at the same time with all the other stuff going it is kind of the first head on the block. After Storm they might just have to throw the books out the window and pull a bunch of plot gymnastics to have more stories merge and intersect. Part of me thinks this would be the best thing for the show anyway, it already has a growing problem of lack of focus.
That's a really good point. Other than Myrcella being shipped off early in the season, Dorne hasn't been mentioned at all. And even then, barely anybody even remembers who Myrcella is, let alone to where she was being shipped off to.
I think they can subtly familiarize the audience with Dorne over the next few seasons by having it mentioned in conversations (e.g. Small council strategizing, Stannis and Davos thinking of allies, Barriston telling Dany about Robert's Rebellion and Dorne aiding her family), and then introducing it fully with Oberyn arriving in King's Landing.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
I dunno if Dorne really needs to be shown at all. I'd definitely give them some exposition and absolutely keep Oberyn, obviously, but creating a new location seems like a lot of work for little payoff thus far.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I'd love to see Ghassan Massoud as Doran Martell. It would probably be too small of a role for him, but in my mind he'd be the perfect choice
I'd imagine we'll at least get The Viper and Doran, plus Arianne; the sand snakes will probably be cut.
bengraven
Member
Yep, one of my favorite chapters in the series mainly because of this:
Yeah Sophie's gonna be quite a bit older by the time they get to this, but I can see her playing it really well.
Yeah, I loved Sansa when I first read the books. I think for the first half I actually sided with her. It was a complete, complete white knight situation and I'm not even going to lie and pretend it wasn't.
But it's not because I found her adorable or I'm some creepy pederast because she was like 13.
It was because people in the "Gud" thread convinced me that Rachel Hurd-Wood would make a great Sansa and so I had her in my mind the entire time:
I'd love to see Ghassan Massoud as Doran Martell. It would probably be too small of a role for him, but in my mind he'd be the perfect choice
I'd imagine we'll at least get The Viper and Doran, plus Arianne; the sand snakes will probably be cut.
I have a feeling the Snakes are going to play a bigger part in the books to come. Two of them are on their way to King's Landing, though things may change in that regards if you've read the Winds preview chapter. But if they do go to KL, they could become another Margaery situation and change things.
Also, I had Massoud in mind for Hotah while reading.
The way GRRM has set Dorne up so far, it seem like he's building it up as pretty important, even if they are a bit of a wild card after Quentyn was killed after his ill fated marriage proposal to Dany.
Dorne and the Vale are really the only places in good shape following the war, so I wouldn't be surprised if they both become really important in the final books.
FunkyPajamas
Member
): Yes, he did. I'm also one of the guys who liked him a lot. He seemed like a smart guy and wasn't afraid of
Rather obvious, I think (meaning: yeah). Isn't he supposed to be The Mountain, revived through magic?
You are not the first person to think this. His stature gives a good clue as to who he might be, or at least part of him
Yep.
bodyofanamerican
Member
Team Stannis all the way. Even his blunt, boring "COME WITH ME AND TAKE THIS CITY" pseudo speech was great.
As I think someone said in the other thread, Stannis charging up the ladder with no helmet and just fucking dudes up? THAT'S how you inspire loyalty.
FunkyPajamas
Member
Nuncle Kev should have been played by Gary Busey.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I'm a bit torn on Martell's potential upcoming plans. He certainly won't take news of Quentyn's death well, especially if he gets details of how disrespectful Dany was to him; he'll also hear about how feckless of a leader she is, and her lack of control of her dragons. He might even hear she's dead or missing actually.
Meanwhile, "Aegon" is his alleged nephew, has already won two big battles, and is being advised by Jon Connington (whom Martell would most likely respect). If he just has to rely on the word of Arianne, who most certainly will like Aegon, he may not get a good impression of the boy's rash behavior and reckless bravado.
So after playing such a long game, does he gamble on the cards in front of his face (Aegon) or continue waiting for Dany? Aegon may want to wait for Dany, but she isn't coming anytime soon. I think he'll marry someone from Dorne- not Arianne, but the little one that came with Arianne (why else is she there?), while arguing he can marry Dany as well when she arrives.
Meanwhile, "Aegon" is his alleged nephew, has already won two big battles, and is being advised by Jon Connington (whom Martell would most likely respect). If he just has to rely on the word of Arianne, who most certainly will like Aegon, he may not get a good impression of the boy's rash behavior and reckless bravado.
So after playing such a long game, does he gamble on the cards in front of his face (Aegon) or continue waiting for Dany? Aegon may want to wait for Dany, but she isn't coming anytime soon. I think he'll marry someone from Dorne- not Arianne, but the little one that came with Arianne (why else is she there?), while arguing he can marry Dany as well when she arrives.
"Hundreds will die!"
"Thousands."
Just the nonchalant way he says it is awesome.
I will be pissed if GRRM kills off Stannis in any way barring some sort of heroic sacrifice.
bodyofanamerican
Member
"Hundreds will die!"
"Thousands."
Just the nonchalant way he says it is awesome.
I will be pissed if GRRM kills off Stannis in any way barring some sort of heroic sacrifice.
I am tentatively willing to accept death by way of his unbending sense of what is "right". If he goes out like a bitch? No. Just, no.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
He'll be the new Reek.
bodyofanamerican
Member
PhoenixDark
Banned
There are like three or four TWOW chapters out, bro
^I believe it is the already released Theon chapter.
Are any besides the Theon chapter out in text online? I know some were read aloud.
Not a big deal I suppose. I can wait. Or, I can try. The more I read now, the less I get to read then.
Are any besides the Theon chapter out in text online? I know some were read aloud.
Not a big deal I suppose. I can wait. Or, I can try. The more I read now, the less I get to read then.
If he is doomed to die at some point, the following scenarios would be preferable:
-Executed by Ramsay without even flinching in fear. But not before he calls him a "Bastard" to his face, and refusing to beg for mercy or denounce his claim to the throne. Right before he dies, he stares down Ramsay with a look so cold and piercing that it haunts Ramsay forever, leading to a full mental breakdown.
-Kills himself for committing a grievous crime. I would love to see him feel remorse in his part in killing Renly later, and once all is said and done, he knows he must face punishment for his kinslaying, and either kills himself, asks Davos to kill him, or admits to his crime and willingly allows himself to be executed.
-Protecting his daughter. It would be nice to see him get emotional for once, and his daughter seems to be the only person he really loves.
-Fighting against the White Walkers.
Steelyuhas
Member
Nothing is worse than a character going out in an awful way. It's much worse than the fact that they died. I.E. Robb in the RW
cj_iwakura
Member
Agreed, and worse, it always happens to Starks.
Found this, you all might like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6VMSYIXCCY
(Bear and the Maiden Fair cover)
PhoenixDark
Banned
cj_iwakura
Member
Wait, you all think Jon is dead? I know it's likely, but part of me hopes GRRM is screwing with us somehow.
Steelyuhas
Member
Links to the
Arianne
No, I think the majority here think he will come back through some combination of warging and Melisandre.
A lot of people think that Jon is going to be revived in the next book because he pretty much perfectly fits the prophecy of the prince that was promised.
And then there are people who think GRRM made it way too obvious that Jon was going to be revived, and think that was just him screwing with us, and that he really will remain dead because we've somehow gotten to a point where that would now be the more surprising option.
theignoramus
Member
I dont get the complaints about Gemma Whalen, with people bitching about her coming off like a foul mouthed sailor or whatever.
ummm, Asha's like that in the books. do I need to quote passages from AFFC? She's quick witted, vulgar, commands the respect of brutes and cutthroats and gives as good as she gets. I love the way Gemma's played Yara, I can actually see a gang of pirates respecting someone like that.
ummm, Asha's like that in the books. do I need to quote passages from AFFC? She's quick witted, vulgar, commands the respect of brutes and cutthroats and gives as good as she gets. I love the way Gemma's played Yara, I can actually see a gang of pirates respecting someone like that.
how isnt this Gemma's Yara?
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