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[Steelyuhas]

I'm hoping for some payout on the Lady Stoneheart story.

There will be. She will have Robb's body with Grey Wind's head brought to her and she will sacrifice her life for the Grey Wind/Robb combo.

THE WOLF IN THE NORTH!


Ship it, it's fucking genius.

 

[theignoramus]

What's the general opinion on Maggy the Frog's prophecies?
Im thinking Tommen is going to die.

 

[Basileus777]

Yeah, but that's the two heads of the main household we follow in this series. That's like Luke and Leia both dying in the first two movies of the original SW trilogy.

Nah, Ned is essentially the wise older adviser archetype that needs to die to start off the story. GRRM pulled the wool over our eyes and made us think he was the main character, but he's not. He's more Obi Wan than Luke, the only thing surprising about Ned is that he was given a POV.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

The thing I hated the most about the Red Wedding was that an Arya chapter immediately followed it and she got so close to getting reunited which would have been great for all the crap she had to go through.

The Red Wedding chapter pissed me off so much. I had to take, like, an hour long break from reading just to process what happened. I calmed myself down and started to read again, only to be presented with the Arya chapter where GRRM makes you think she was killed by the Hound. Fuck I was so pissed. Thank goodness I was reading at night and no one saw me, otherwise they probably would have thought I'd gone crazy. I looked in the mirror and my face was bright red and my heart was beating a million miles an hour and my head was pounding. Probably the most upset I've ever been from experiencing a piece of media.

 

[DiscoShark]

Frankly, yeah the Red Wedding was a pretty significant event in the game of throne's universe but the only moment where I was like "fuck this series" and had to put down the book because of something was when I thought Dany was going to sell her dragons for access to the unsullied. I was really just disgusted at that point in the book ... but when she called out "Dracarys" and proceeded to sack the city and free the salves ... yeah, solidified herself as favorite character. Never shoulda doubted her.

 

[Gvaz]

I'm totally avoiding all posts and spoilers in this thread.

I just finished the Red Wedding chapter.

WTF, man, wtf. This fucking series. This FUCKING series.

Fuck.

You're in the wrong fucking thread, lol

 

[ahoyhoy]

I was riding the exercise bike in the gym when I read the RW chapter. I remember peddling quickly at first as tension was rising, then slowing down to focus on every single word when it was apparent Robb was going to die.

Needless to say, when the moment came, my legs turned to jelly and my workout had come to an end. I promptly left the gym and put the book down for the rest of the day.

 

[Frost_Ace]

But I was pissed at Quentyn's death

 

[CassSept]

But I was pissed at Quentyn's death

Oh don't be mad, his death was necessary for Dany to have beautiful children with Daario!

 

[John Dunbar]

Frankly, yeah the Red Wedding was a pretty significant event in the game of throne's universe but the only moment where I was like "fuck this series" and had to put down the book because of something was when I thought Dany was going to sell her dragons for access to the unsullied. I was really just disgusted at that point in the book ... but when she called out "Dracarys" and proceeded to sack the city and free the salves ... yeah, solidified herself as favorite character. Never shoulda doubted her.

That's probably my least favourite part of the books, and what finally pushed me over the edge regarding Dany, from being rather indifferent to being a "hater". It's just so grating how everything else in the series seems to operate within very harsh realities, whereas Dany gets everything handed to her on a silver platter. While I was reading the Astapor scene, I totally saw it coming that she would use the Unsullied to attack the slavers, but the only thing that made me question it was that something so stupid couldn't possibly happen, but because it's Dany, of course it did.

I mean, the Astapori have been training the Unsullied for how long, centuries? And at no point did it occur to them when they trained them to obey every command that they however are under no circumstances to attack the Astapori? And then they just hand over the command of every single one of them to Dany, right inside the city walls? But hey, got to give Dany a huge army of brilliant soldiers who also have no chance of ever turning against her.

The whole Dany storyline basically makes me wish it's a giant build up for her to slowly descend into madness and become an, or perhaps even the, antagonist of Westeros. If the Others are the batshit insane Ice baddies, Dany can be the batshit insane Fire shill. Then she will be cut down by Barristan, who realizes that Jaime was right.

 

[Nlroh]

The whole Dany storyline basically makes me wish it's a giant build up for her to slowly descend into madness and become an, or perhaps even the, antagonist of Westeros.

I think that's what's going to happen.

 

[electroshockwave]

What's the general opinion on Maggy the Frog's prophecies?
Im thinking Tommen is going to die.

Isn't the prophecy that all Cersei's children will die before? "Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds." It's kind of sad because Tomnen and Myrcella seem like good kids, they just have a batshit insane mother.

 

[Ikael]

About Daenerys storyline

Also, I cannot believe that I have been able to think of a bajillion better possible ways to cut the Meerense knot than Martin. The hell? It is a complex issue, but not as complex as to don't have it done by the 6th book, me thinks. Also, I wouldn't have any problem with her dying or even more interestingly, becoming the villain of the series, but for crap's shake, do it after she arrives to Westeros.

I'm totally avoiding all posts and spoilers in this thread.

I just finished the Red Wedding chapter.

WTF, man, wtf. This fucking series. This FUCKING series.

Fuck.

Come on man. Tell us how you feel *valhartrollhullis.jpg*

Now talking seriously, seeing the reactions of book virgins and tv watchers is extremely compelling. I cannot comprenhend why someone on their sane minds would want to deliberately spoil the series for them. They are an asset for us book readers too!

 

[i_am_ben]

Isn't the prophecy that all Cersei's children will die before? "Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds." It's kind of sad because Tomnen and Myrcella seem like good kids, they just have a batshit insane mother.

Yeah, from the books it sounded as through Myrcella would be a very capable ruler.

In fact, if I had one off the wall choice to win the iron throne it would be Myrcella.

 

[Emerson]

GRRM doesn't really do POV deaths though. Other than Cat, Ned is the only significant POV to die.

I know we all (including me) are pretty sure Jon isn't staying dead, but technically he is currently dead as well.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

That's probably my least favourite part of the books, and what finally pushed me over the edge regarding Dany, from being rather indifferent to being a "hater". It's just so grating how everything else in the series seems to operate within very harsh realities, whereas Dany gets everything handed to her on a silver platter. While I was reading the Astapor scene, I totally saw it coming that she would use the Unsullied to attack the slavers, but the only thing that made me question it was that something so stupid couldn't possibly happen, but because it's Dany, of course it did.

I mean, the Astapori have been training the Unsullied for how long, centuries? And at no point did it occur to them when they trained them to obey every command that they however are under no circumstances to attack the Astapori? And then they just hand over the command of every single one of them to Dany, right inside the city walls? But hey, got to give Dany a huge army of brilliant soldiers who also have no chance of ever turning against her.

The whole Dany storyline basically makes me wish it's a giant build up for her to slowly descend into madness and become an, or perhaps even the, antagonist of Westeros. If the Others are the batshit insane Ice baddies, Dany can be the batshit insane Fire shill. Then she will be cut down by Barristan, who realizes that Jaime was right.

That's my problem with Dany too.

 

[CassSept]

Isn't the prophecy that all Cersei's children will die before? "Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds." It's kind of sad because Tomnen and Myrcella seem like good kids, they just have a batshit insane mother.

I know this is the commonly accepted interpretation, but I'm not entirely content with "gold their shrouds" = they will all die before Cersei. I took it that they will all be Lannister blonde, the fact that this is considered confirmation of Tommen's untimely death on the Internet surprised me.

 

[theignoramus]

Isn't the prophecy that all Cersei's children will die before? "Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds." It's kind of sad because Tomnen and Myrcella seem like good kids, they just have a batshit insane mother.

The old woman was not done with her, however. "Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds," she said. "And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."

Also, one of Cersei's brothers is gunna kill her. I was thinking it would be Tyrion, but he's so far removed from Cersei at this point, I imagine it'll be Jaime.

I always thought the golden shroud was just a confirmation her kids would be blondes.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Also, one of Cersei's brothers is gunna kill her. I was thinking it would be Tyrion, but he's so far removed from Cersei at this point, I imagine it'll be Jaime.

Im pretty sure sure it's Jaime too. Valonqar is younger brother if I remember right, and Jaime is a younger brother as well.

 

[tokkun]

I mean, she meant to hang Payne for the crime of squiring for Tyrion Lannister.
that's a level of ruthlessness Cat never had.

Catelyn slit the throat of the mentally disabled Frey kid.

 

[NekoFever]

How lol?

Makes me sad all over again.

Just think of the reactions when it happens on TV and you won't fail to smile.

 

[theignoramus]

Catelyn slit the throat of the mentally disabled Frey kid.

but that was more insanity induced than anything. it wasnt a cold blooded murder.

 

[Talon]

I know this is the commonly accepted interpretation, but I'm not entirely content with "gold their shrouds" = they will all die before Cersei. I took it that they will all be Lannister blonde, the fact that this is considered confirmation of Tommen's untimely death on the Internet surprised me.

Well it's that and "when you are drowned in tears" or whatnot.

 

[LuchaShaq]

No, I think the qualifier on put on there eliminates him. I could bring up Arys Oakheart or all the prologue POVs too, but those are just characters GRRM used because he needed someone to show a scene, they aren't major characters anyone cares about.

I personally really like Kevan Lannister and felt bad for him.


I was personally mad at the Quentyn one just because fuck Dany for shunning him for the obviously scheming Hizard lo douchebag

 

[CassSept]

Well it's that and "when you are drowned in tears" or whatnot.

Yeah, but that doesn't necessarily have to mean all of her children must die. It was always kind of overinterpreting to me

 

[wackojackosnose]

Also, one of Cersei's brothers is gunna kill her. I was thinking it would be Tyrion, but he's so far removed from Cersei at this point, I imagine it'll be Jaime.

I always thought the golden shroud was just a confirmation her kids would be blondes.

Im pretty sure sure it's Jaime too. Valonqar is younger brother if I remember right, and Jaime is a younger brother as well.

I actually thought / think it might be Tommen as the murderer (younger brother, prophecies are accurate to a point). And Cersei has been quite mean to him in the last few books, plus the growing influence of his wife... Might just be my M. Night plot twist hat working on overdrive though.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

but that was more insanity induced than anything. it wasnt a cold blooded murder.

It wasn't insanity she was trying to bargain with Lord Frey. Kill Robb and I kill this guy. What was she going to do, not follow through?

 

[tmdorsey]

I'm hoping for some payout on the Lady Stoneheart story.

In my mind Lady Stoneheart exists to extract potent revenge on the Freys. If she does that and nothing more, I will be content.

I was personally mad at the Quentyn one just because fuck Dany for shunning him for the obviously scheming Hizard lo douchebag

I don't get the how people can blame Dany for Quentyn's death. It wasn't her fault that his dumbass thought he could tame 2 dragons after watching Dany with them for 5 minutes.

And on her shunning him why is that surprising? By the time he had gotten to her she had already decided on her plan action with Hizard lo. Also from her POV the original pact with Dorne had nothing to do with her. Couple all that with the fact that she wasn't even remotely attracted to the dude (given she still is a teenage girl), she really had no reason to just jump up and suddenly accept this total stranger.

 

[bengraven]

In my mind Lady Stoneheart exists to extract potent revenge on the Freys. If she does that and nothing more, I will be content.

Well Manderly has kind of taken up that charge.

That said, I think Stoneheart's number one target is Walder Frey. Once he dies she'll likely turn to the Lannisters, but I think she will be stopped before she can move on to that.

 

[BertramCooper]

Well Manderly has kind of taken up that charge.

That said, I think Stoneheart's number one target is Walder Frey. Once he dies she'll likely turn to the Lannisters, but I think she will be stopped before she can move on to that.

Or Theon.

 

[Dresden]

I was personally mad at the Quentyn one just because fuck Dany for shunning him for the obviously scheming Hizard lo douchebag

I wonder how Dany would have reacted to Oberyn. She obviously likes dickbags.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Just think of the reactions when it happens on TV and you won't fail to smile.

Nah, the reactions when Dany gets murdered will make me smile.

 

[KingGondo]

I wonder how Dany would have reacted to Oberyn. She obviously likes dickbags.

Plus you know he would've been down for a three-way with Dany and Daario.

 

[theignoramus]

Or Theon.

Not if Stannis removes his head first.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I personally really like Kevan Lannister and felt bad for him.


I was personally mad at the Quentyn one just because fuck Dany for shunning him for the obviously scheming Hizard lo douchebag

I would have loved to see more of Kevan Lannister's internal battle with Tyrells for control of the city; the brief glimpse/conversation we got at the beginning of the epilogue was quite interesting. That being said, I certainly welcome Cersei back to a position of power. I believe her persona in the prologue was somewhat of a ruse, but I do believe she has changed to some degree or another.

btw if you guys had to bet: Will Tommen be alive at the end of TWOW?

 

[Chris R]

It would kinda suck for Tommen to be dead Same with Myrcella. They can be the last surviving members of their branch of the Lannister family tree though, I'd be fine with that.

They just haven't done anything yet to be offed really.

 

[Dresden]

I think the Lannisters get wiped out with the exception of Tyrion. They've made too many enemies, and have too much debt hanging over them--a Lannister always pays his debts, and in this case, it's going to be the murder of the Targaryen kids that does it. Tommen and Myrcella may not deserve it but GRRM isn't afraid to be ruthless when it comes to non-POV characters.

Outside of Cersei and Joffsies, though, the Lannisters really are the nicest bunch of bros in the books. Kevan, Genna, that cousin of Jaime's, Jaime himself...

 

[LegendofJoe]

Catelyn slit the throat of the mentally disabled Frey kid.

I was so immersed in what was happening when I first read this chapter that I was essentially in Catelyn's head with her at this point. I got way too much enjoyment out of the description of how she cut that kid's throat, it freaked me out a little bit.

 

[theignoramus]

I think the Lannisters get wiped out with the exception of Tyrion. They've made too many enemies, and have too much debt hanging over them--a Lannister always pays his debts, and in this case, it's going to be the murder of the Targaryen kids that does it. Tommen and Myrcella may not deserve it but GRRM isn't afraid to be ruthless when it comes to non-POV characters.

Outside of Cersei and Joffsies, though, the Lannisters really are the nicest bunch of bros in the books. Kevan, Genna, that cousin of Jaime's, Jaime himself...

umm, he threw Bran out of a window. he's not a Bolton or a Frey, but he's not some nice guy either. he's solidly grey.
I think he's in for a bit of a rough stretch though with the Targaryen's homing in. They will not forgive him for killing Aerys, however justified it was. Best case scenario, he takes the black or gets exiled. I think he'd make a fine commander of the Night's Watch, personally.

 

[Tacitus_]

I think the Lannisters get wiped out with the exception of Tyrion. They've made too many enemies, and have too much debt hanging over them--a Lannister always pays his debts, and in this case, it's going to be the murder of the Targaryen kids that does it. Tommen and Myrcella may not deserve it but GRRM isn't afraid to be ruthless when it comes to non-POV characters.

Outside of Cersei and Joffsies, though, the Lannisters really are the nicest bunch of bros in the books. Kevan, Genna, that cousin of Jaime's, Jaime himself...

Tyrion and Dany will hook up, go around the world and invade Westeros through Lannisport and take Casterly Rock by invading through the drains.

It's been foreshadowed way too much not to happen.
But man, I want TWOW now. Need more Arya chapters ._.

umm, he threw Bran out of a window. he's not a Bolton or a Frey, but he's not some nice guy either. he's solidly grey.
I think he's in for a bit of a rough stretch though with the Targaryen's homing in. They will not forgive him for killing Aerys, however justified it was. Best case scenario, he takes the black or gets exiled. I think he'd make a fine commander of the Night's Watch, personally.

Jaime has swung thoroughly to the better side of the alignment chart after losing his hand and hearing what Cersei has been up to (fucking Lancel and Kettleback).

 

[BertramCooper]

I think the Lannisters get wiped out with the exception of Tyrion. They've made too many enemies, and have too much debt hanging over them--a Lannister always pays his debts, and in this case, it's going to be the murder of the Targaryen kids that does it. Tommen and Myrcella may not deserve it but GRRM isn't afraid to be ruthless when it comes to non-POV characters.

Outside of Cersei and Joffsies, though, the Lannisters really are the nicest bunch of bros in the books. Kevan, Genna, that cousin of Jaime's, Jaime himself...

Really, the entire series seems to be leading to a collapse of almost all of the major houses.

The only major house that hasn't been severely compromised is House Tyrell, and with Margaery being tried for treason and Loras gravely injured, they're not exactly at full strength, either.

 

[timetokill]

I really really really want Dany to become a villain in the books, it would be the only thing that redeems her character in my eyes.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

I will never forget reading Tyrion's final chapter in SoS. Everything about the chapter, where I was sitting, how I felt, who was around me is still vividly in my mind after a year. I began reading early that day, as soon as I woke. From the second my eyes opened I crossed the books midpoint and furiously read along. My attention was in the book and in my imagination; I was unconscious to the world. I'm sitting in the library's lobby surrounded by students when I finally finished the triumphant last chapter. I've been in the same seat for hours now silently reading to myself when Tyrion unleashes a crossbow bolt into the mighty Lord Tywin's bowls, leaving him in a pool of blood, shit and piss. I thunderously closed the book, startling those around me shouting, "WOW, OH MY GOD, UNBELIEVABLE" as I panted and joyously trembled. Many students laughed with intrigue, inquiring about the book. I sold the series to 10 individuals that day.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I hope Daario is murdered by the Yunkai when Dany returns to Mereen, so she ends up burning the city to the ground in her fury.

As for Catelyn/Stoneheart, the idea of Catelyn taking revenge was good in and of itself, but the fact that she's still making every single terrible decision possible based on bad intel (just as she has since the first book) makes it more aggravating than anything. Plus, Brienne's chapters after she leaves King's Landing are just filler. I gave less than a trifling fuck about her cleaning up Vargo Hoat's mess across the riverlands.

 

[bengraven]

His betrayal needs to be obvious first before they lunk his head over the wall.

 

[gutshot]

Holy shit that Jojen theory. I wish it weren't so believable because that has me bummed out.

Is it just because I read all five books back to back and so didn't participate in any of the online discussion after the other four, or are there a lot more things implied but not confirmed in Dance than there were in other books? Jon's false death, Jojen's apparent death, the Frey pies, the theory about Victarion's death and undeath, the theory about the Damphair's childhood abuse from Euron, the theories about Tyrion's wife being one of the consorts in Braavos, are all ones just off the top of my head. Maybe it's just the increasing supernaturalness of the story that's doing it, but it all seems way less straightforward than it was in the earlier books, where the only subtextual stuff outside of the various prophesies was really R+L=J and maybe the implications that Balon was killed by a Faceless Man. Maybe I'm just not remembering as much of the earlier stuff though though since I got to quickly have it confirmed by reading the next books.

The former. I remember there being a ton of speculation about stuff in ASOS and then later AFFC. Obviously, ADWD is the latest book, so a lot of the unconfirmed stuff from there is going to be heavily speculated on now.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

His betrayal needs to be obvious first before they lunk his head over the wall.

The only way Daario could meaningfully try to betray her is by trying to murder her. You know, get welcomed back into Mereen and into her bedchamber, then try to slit her throat so the Yunkai spare his life when they take the city. Now that she's surrounded by a new Kalasar and riding a Dragon bigger than a horse, I doubt he'd be stupid enough to think the Yunkai could actually win.

 

[Frost_Ace]

I will never forget reading Tyrion's final chapter in SoS. Everything about the chapter, where I was sitting, how I felt, who was around me is still vividly in my mind after a year. I began reading early that day, as soon as I woke. From the second my eyes opened I crossed the books midpoint and furiously read along. My attention was in the book and in my imagination; I was unconscious to the world. I'm sitting in the library's lobby surrounded by students when I finally finished the triumphant last chapter. I've been in the same seat for hours now silently reading to myself when Tyrion unleashes a crossbow bolt into the mighty Lord Tywin's bowls, leaving him in a pool of blood, shit and piss. I thunderously closed the book, startling those around me shouting, "WOW, OH MY GOD, UNBELIEVABLE" as I panted and joyously trembled. Many students laughed with intrigue, inquiring about the book. I sold the series to 10 individuals that day.

Best chapter in the series. So fucking perfect.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

The only way Daario could meaningfully try to betray her is by trying to murder her. You know, get welcomed back into Mereen and into her bedchamber, then try to slit her throat so the Yunkai spare his life when they take the city. Now that she's surrounded by a new Kalasar and riding a Dragon bigger than a horse, I doubt he'd be stupid enough to think the Yunkai could actually win.

Drogon has a 20ft wingspan, it is known.

 

[bengraven]

Drogon has a 20ft wingspan, it is known.

It is known.