Some people got pretty hung up on their practice, if I recall.
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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
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Some people got pretty hung up on their practice, if I recall.
SouthernDragon
Member
Even in the world of ASoIaF, the Right of First Night is seen as barbaric.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I could see Aerys doing it to shame Tywin, who at the time was considered the true power in the realm; but considering that it happened during the disrobing, I think it's more likely he fondled her - fingering her would have been seen as quite the insult. It could also be the reason Joanna was sent away from King's Landing
Yeah I think he probably just touched her inappropriately. Weren't Tywin and Aerys still friends at that time?
I'm rereading ASOS, for the 3rd time.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, isn't Bran basically walking North the whole time, besides that one incident at the old fort or something where that big fight happens and he almost crosses paths with Jon? Basically lots of walking till he hits the far north and joins up with Coldhands.
I'm just trying to remember his general story until he hits awesomeness in DOD.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, isn't Bran basically walking North the whole time, besides that one incident at the old fort or something where that big fight happens and he almost crosses paths with Jon? Basically lots of walking till he hits the far north and joins up with Coldhands.
I'm just trying to remember his general story until he hits awesomeness in DOD.
Steelyuhas
Member
Jibbajabbawockky
Member
Thats what I've thought too. That he's only the Mummer's dragon in the sense that he is a legit "dragon" as a Blackfyre but that he's being backed and to some extent controlled by Varys.
I'd love it if he was a legit Blackfyre and not just a total pretender. Since Aegon has the Golden Company with him, I wonder if he has Blackfyre (the sword) in his possession? I wonder if Bloodraven would then tie into this more directly if Aegon is a real Blackfyre?
200 manuscript pages finished. Apparently there are many under review in addition to that. ADWD was 1500 manuscript pages for comparison.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I would pay stupid money for an unedited sprawling cluster fuck versions of the earlier books for a re-read.
I'd love to see how he dealt with the 5 year gap before he decided it was a bad idea.
This even though I can't see how that wouldn't be a trainwreck/a 1000 pages of exposition explaining what happened.
When was the 5 year gap even going to be?
Steelyuhas
Member
After the events of ASOS.
Well we got AFFC/ADWD instead. Not much of a trade-off.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
Arya is going to be a trained assassin in like 9 months. Only person better than her is Bruce Wayne. 5 year gap works better for her story.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Martin did an interview with a Spanish site and mentioned he thinks 2014 makes sense for TWOW.
While he has 200 MS pages, he certainly has a lot more unfinished stuff in terms of general outlines and chapter skeletons left over from the ADWD process. And with the Dany stuff seemingly solved, I certainly believe this won't be as laborious as the last book.
Based on his posts and readings we basically know he has:
-Four Victarion chapters http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/69778-seattle-reading-any-details/#entry3355377
-A Theon and Tyrion chapter. He also mentioned he moved a Sansa chapter from ADWD to TWOW
-Two Arianne chapters
We also know the Winterfell battle was removed from ADWD, as was the Mereen one, meaning there are likely more Theon chapters as well as more Tyrion of course, and I think another Barriston chapter is likely considering he's the only POV inside Mereen right now.
In the link above, Martin mentions that he writes POVs one at a time until he runs into trouble. Given how many characters came and went throughout Dany's chapters, it makes sense that he couldn't figure out how to properly set everything up. But now with Dany outside the city, I'd imagine her initial chapters will be easier to complete. Meanwhile Tyrion, Victarion, and possibly Barriston will be involved in the battle - one outside the city, one on the sea, and one inside the city.
I'd imagine if the battle was in ADWD, it would have ended with some type of cliff hanger. Assuming Dany doesn't waste a third of the book traveling around the Dothraki sea conquering Khalasars (sigh...), she could presumably ride her new Khalasar back to Mereen and break the siege while Victarion handles the naval fleets.
Meanwhile the Winterfell battle could go a few ways.
While he has 200 MS pages, he certainly has a lot more unfinished stuff in terms of general outlines and chapter skeletons left over from the ADWD process. And with the Dany stuff seemingly solved, I certainly believe this won't be as laborious as the last book.
Based on his posts and readings we basically know he has:
-Four Victarion chapters http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/69778-seattle-reading-any-details/#entry3355377
-A Theon and Tyrion chapter. He also mentioned he moved a Sansa chapter from ADWD to TWOW
-Two Arianne chapters
We also know the Winterfell battle was removed from ADWD, as was the Mereen one, meaning there are likely more Theon chapters as well as more Tyrion of course, and I think another Barriston chapter is likely considering he's the only POV inside Mereen right now.
In the link above, Martin mentions that he writes POVs one at a time until he runs into trouble. Given how many characters came and went throughout Dany's chapters, it makes sense that he couldn't figure out how to properly set everything up. But now with Dany outside the city, I'd imagine her initial chapters will be easier to complete. Meanwhile Tyrion, Victarion, and possibly Barriston will be involved in the battle - one outside the city, one on the sea, and one inside the city.
I'd imagine if the battle was in ADWD, it would have ended with some type of cliff hanger. Assuming Dany doesn't waste a third of the book traveling around the Dothraki sea conquering Khalasars (sigh...), she could presumably ride her new Khalasar back to Mereen and break the siege while Victarion handles the naval fleets.
Meanwhile the Winterfell battle could go a few ways.
Stannis is about to burn Theon, and Bran might reveal himself during the ritual. Regardless a battle of some type is going to happen, or has happened already considering the letter at the end of ADWD. Perhaps Stannis wins and sends the Manderly force back with his sword as proof, and they open the gates for him. Who knows
I don't think Arya's age is a problem. She was already smarter than her older sister in the first book, after going through all of ACOK and ASOS her character makes perfect sense.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
I was talking more about how fast she is being trained.
Yes. You can pretty plainly see her growth towards the end of that book/in the next one. And her direction as well.
Well duh... sorry for misreading that.
Well the time she spends with the FM can be pretty open ended. There could be many months between the new chapters.
It could have been quite a clusterfuck, to be fair. Unless we accept half the Westeros just sitting ildly biding their time.
Which still is more probable considering the history of the world than Arya and Brann becoming masters of their craft within few months and a 5 year old being a suitable heir to the North.
The Albatross
Member
PhoenixDark --
I'd be with you on the idea of 2014 given that he has so much content.. but let's remember, in 2006 when AFFC came out, he said that ADWD was essentially done and would be released within a year. ... 5 years later...
I'd be with you on the idea of 2014 given that he has so much content.. but let's remember, in 2006 when AFFC came out, he said that ADWD was essentially done and would be released within a year. ... 5 years later...
Well, it is what most of Westeros is doing though, isn't it? And instead we have to read about it in great detail. If I had a dollar for every time Tyrion shakes his cock in this last book...
Was that before or after he decided to scrap the whole 5 year gap plan though?
PhoenixDark
Banned
Yea that was during the 5 year gap period and all the other problems that erupted. Considering Martin has overcome that problem, it's not off base to suggest this book won't take as long
Steelyuhas
Member
Well after. A Feast for Crows only exists because he against the time jump. His original plan after ASOS was that Dance would be the next book with a 5 year jump.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Idbe more inclined to believe in 2014 if he wasn't spending his days jetting across the world answering the same questions over and over. Not to mention his many other projects. But who knows, maybe he can do it.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
2014...don't break my heart GRRM.
Many people seem to think that Martin never writes the book because he only talks about his endless pr tours and sports and stuff in his blog. He probably does write it but just doesn't talk about it because like he has said, he doesn't want to tell about unfinished stuff or post things like "I wrote X pages today".
I understand people don't trust him anymore after the whole AAFC/ADWD thing but maybe, just maybe he has a writing plan or something.
He also has actual incentives to stay on time now, since any later than 2014 and the tv series would have to really stretch some things to avoid passing him. 2014 gives HBO access to Winds as they're writing seasons 5/6 for Feast/Dance so they can know if there's any foreshadowing they want to include or plots that they want to move forward, or if there are any off screen events that aren't revealed til Winds that they'd like to include. Any later and they have to start making that stuff up for themselves, which I'm sure GRRM would hate, or torture us all with a 3 season, excruciatingly detailed retelling of Feast/Dance.
Plus, his increased popularity means each book he publishes will bring him more money, so he has increased financial incentive now, too.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
Has he ever said how Aegon fits in the 5 year gap? Would have been a bit weird to pick up the 4th book and see that Aegon has been dicking around, and possibly died (again), during the gap.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
This is how I feel as well.
GRRM has stated once or twice that he's not talking as much about TWOW but just because he's not blogging about it doesn't mean he's not working on it. People have gotten pretty cynical, and I understand it's easy for me to say since I didn't wait through AFFC/ADWD. Still I think a measure of positivity is a virtue.
I think a lot of that would have been left out-same with Tyrion's slave adventures.
Or possibly, Aegon would have appeared right at the end of the 5 year gap. Who knows.
My guess is that the book would have opened with King's Landing getting word that someone has landed from the East and captured Storm's End, a lot like you see in Kevan's epilogue, and over time people would realize it was the Golden Company and someone claiming to be Aegon, and from there we'd start getting Connington chapters giving the backstory. But that's just a guess. The order of events has clearly been redone so much its hard to really know what the original intent was.
Or maybe Tyrion just sat in Pentos for the whole five year gap getting drunk, and so the Tyrion/Aegon plot would've exactly the same, just with everyone five years older?
It also would have been weird to have Stannis hanging around the Wall for 5 years. I guess plot problems like this are why he decided the gap didn't work after all.
The main purpose of the gap seems to have been to allow the dragons to grow, which he simply quietly retconned (we are told in earlier books that it will be years before they're large enough to ride, but suddenly in Dance they're already enormous).
Yeah, except he has said he only writes at home. On his dinky old computer. So when he's touring, he's not writing. Of course, I know he's probably thinking about possible plotlines when on tour and I don't hate him (like some people do) for not rushing his next book. But when whole months go by without him writing anything at all, I can see why people get annoyed.
LuchaShaq said:
You may get your wish. All of Martin's draft manuscripts are recorded in a library. They will be opened in the future, but only after the series has been completed.
When TWOW does come out, I could see it being one of the biggest book launches in history, on the scale of Harry Potter. ADWD kind of missed the hype wave generated by the TV series, which really began during the build-up to season 2. In the UK, I've seen a popular chain of stores devote an entire shelf to ASOIAF, even in smaller branches.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
Stannis sitting at the Wall would have been one of the least problems, it's not unusual for major powers to rest several years as a war winds down, even after losing.
On the other hand, this was to be a brief autumn, so by the time of ADWD we would have been well into winter, where the problem of dwindling resources would have to be brought up.
Basically, the gap causes as many problems to arise as it solves.
Steelyuhas
Member
I think that's kind of impossible to say. We don't know where characters would have been after the 5 year gap. I'm sure a lot of stuff changed after he decided against doing it.
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