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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
- Thread starter Pollux
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Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
Finally caught up to ADWD and I can see why people who've been following the books as they were released would be pretty pissed.
I'm no writer and certainly no editor but from a storyboard perspective I have a hard time understanding why Martin apparently fussed over AFFC and ADWD so much and came to his decision to split the story there. I finished AFFC a couple months ago and just wrapped up ADWD last night and I'm having a hard time seeing how he couldn't have condensed these two books into one. There just doesn't seem to be enough plot-critical stuff going on in each book to sustain them on their own and both felt pretty plodding and uneventful compared to the previous books. The fact that Martin waited until the last 20 or so pages of each book to make any serious plot advancement was a borderline dick move on his part.
Also, I think Ramsay replaces Joffrey as the most despicable character in the universe for me. Dude's just a straight up animal. At least Joffrey had a tiny amoeba of personality. Although the Boltons in general seem like degenerates.
I'm no writer and certainly no editor but from a storyboard perspective I have a hard time understanding why Martin apparently fussed over AFFC and ADWD so much and came to his decision to split the story there. I finished AFFC a couple months ago and just wrapped up ADWD last night and I'm having a hard time seeing how he couldn't have condensed these two books into one. There just doesn't seem to be enough plot-critical stuff going on in each book to sustain them on their own and both felt pretty plodding and uneventful compared to the previous books. The fact that Martin waited until the last 20 or so pages of each book to make any serious plot advancement was a borderline dick move on his part.
Also, I think Ramsay replaces Joffrey as the most despicable character in the universe for me. Dude's just a straight up animal. At least Joffrey had a tiny amoeba of personality. Although the Boltons in general seem like degenerates.
While I certainly shared your point of view on the issue after finishing aDwD, upon further reflection I'm not sure whether or not you can wholly chalk many of the events that occured in aFfC/aDwD as largely non "plot critical" in nature. For instance, I initally dismissed Brienne's seemingly pointless adventures as being just that... pointless, since we as the audience know her search for Sansa will ultimately be in vain. However, it does allow Martin to insert more interest snippets in regards to the universe of aSoIaF as a whole, which I always appreciate.
Aside from that, "Plot critical stuff" is a term best reserved for after the series has concluded. Who knows? Maybe some of the minor characters Tyrion ran into during his wacky river-rafting adventures prove to be "plot critical" during tWoW/aDoS.
Aside from that, "Plot critical stuff" is a term best reserved for after the series has concluded. Who knows? Maybe some of the minor characters Tyrion ran into during his wacky river-rafting adventures prove to be "plot critical" during tWoW/aDoS.
wandering goat
Member
I just finished reading Dance with Dragons last night, which I started after re-reading all the others. I had heard people were disappointed with it, so I didn't have extremely high expectations going in. But wow, this book blew me away. I think it's right up there with Storm of Swords as the best in the series.
What do you guys expect from Moqorro and Marwyn, once they reach Dany/Mereen? I expect Marwyn'd sit better with Barristan/other Westerosi possibly, being an archmaester from the Citadel and all that. Might be he also has some good intel on dragon petkeeping 101. But Moqorro can do crazy fire god wizard tricks and comes with Victarion and mysterious horn. Maybe they'll compliment eachother.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I think Marwyn is fucked considering he trained Miri Maz Dur; Dany won't trust him, and will probably burn him.
Dunno about Moqorro. On paper he seems like he'd be perfect for Dany - he's a representative for that priest guy who wants to free all the slaves, he believes she is a prophetic figure, etc. But is he simply what he says he is, or something else. I do believe he's tricking Victarion though lol
Moqorro is more interested in Dany than Victarion. I suppose he'll ditch Victarion whenever he gets to her. I don't really know what to expect from Marwyn.
SouthernDragon
Member
I think DwD and FfC set up some nifty things, like Sandor fighting his brother.
Ninja Beagle
Member
Yea, very intense. I thought she was gonna get got.
Wow Drogon is huge in that picture, in ADWD I more or less viewed the dragons as being pony sized, maybe horse sized. I am kind of hoping for Martin to do a 5 year or so time gap at the start of the next book so we can already have full grown dragons, assassin Arya and Azor Ahai being the Lord Commander of the Nights Watch.
Cpt.Underpants
Member
Have you checked out Michael Komarck's ASOIF art? Its quite epic
I'm almost positive that's what they were described as.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
I'm pretty sure Drogon is supposed to be about 20 feet across by ADWD.
elrechazado
Banned
His wingspan. Which means his body wasn't very big at all, compared to how they are described in relation to their wings in earlier books. Remember, quentyn was going to steal one with a cart or some crap.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
Right, though I do believe Drogon is supposed to be substantially larger than the other 2 dragons.
In any case, I still think Drogon is bigger than what was implied above. The picture may be a bit exaggerated but it's not all that far off really.
KingHenrik30
Member
Well I'm finally allowed to come in here, just finished ADWD today. Personally didn't think it was as good as it was talked up by my friends but better than Crows for sure.
The Albatross
Member
I think you're very right. And it's not just plot critical stories, it's just -- IMO -- wastes of pages when you've read thousands of pages, and you know you're getting to the end of a book, and he's wasting language on the emotions that Dany is feeling in some green field. I remember being so pissed reading that last Dany chapter and being like "JEsus Christ George just get on with it..." And then, boom, Dany is back to the end of book 1. Her dragons got big and killed some people, she dated some people, some guy who is supposedly another guy shows up and thinks he's cool, and that's it.
KingHenrik30
Member
Another example, how many times do I have to hear about how Tywin expelled his father's mistress? The fact that he's still wasting time writing about this in the epilogue of ADWD pisses me off. I definitely get that "COME ON GEORGE" thought in my head all the time, like when I'm reading the names of EVERY SHIP in Stannis' fleet.
The last several posts are reasons why AFfC is better than ADwD. ADwD did not have to be a complete tease. Martin has stated several times that whole battles were pulled from ADwD. AFfC may not be the greatest but it is exactly what it is suppose to be. I cannot say the same for ADwD.
I can't wait and see how they gimp that in the tv show
ADwD was the first time I abhorred Tyrion's story. That makes it worse by default. Plus I can tell you countless names of roles of the new characters from Dorne and the Iron Islands. Can anyone honestly tell me the same for those in ADwD?
Yeeeeeeep.
So is all the stuff in the North, The Wall, Bran, etc etc etc.
Granted, I haven't read Feast in years (almost done with my third read of SOS, so thats next) but I remember being bored to tears by large portions of it. Of course, I was in high school at the time, so that could've added to it.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Yeah, the first time in the series I dreaded the next Tyrion chapter rather than be excited for it.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
The dragon is way too big and the wings are pretty bad. It has 2 bones come out of its elbow. Then the other wing only has 1. It's bad enough that there are bones coming out of the elbow, then they don't even match.
How is it supporting itself? The wing claws are the part that should be touching the ground.
Stadium looks too large. But that's probably to make the size of the dragon fit into it.
Can't say that at all, to me. Tyrion's chapters were good (though certainly not as good as before), and I *liked* Dany's chapters.
KingHenrik30
Member
was one of the only redeeming qualities of Feast for me
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
Though he's cool, he still doesn't do much. He gets drunk and gets captured if my memory is correct.
"His" death scene? Do you mean the Greatjon? He is still alive IIRC.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Yep, and you only hear about his fight later on.
Basileus777
Member
It's more like aside from Catelyn, Robb, Roose Bolton, Walder Frey, Edmure Tully, Roslin Frey, Greywind...
Even the minor Freys and the Westerling brother play larger roles in that chapter.
He's a background character that does nothing of significance related to the Red Wedding.
Wait, the Greatjon survives? Wasn't there some Frey who was tasked with getting him so hammered that he couldn't fight, and then doesn't he overturn a table to use it as a shield and end up taking multiple arrows to the body before dying? Was that someone else? Somehow I remember the Greatjon going out like a boss protecting Robb, but it's been nearly two years since I read the book.
In any case ADWD > AFFC.
In any case ADWD > AFFC.
I think he was wounded the freys hold him as hostage as far as i recall.
You're confusing Smalljon with Greatjon. Smalljon was his son
Cpt.Underpants
Member
Greatjon was restrained though he did manage to cut off an ear from someone afaik
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
They need the Greatjon who else is going to start the bear and the maiden fair by drunkenly shouting "a bear! A bear!"
I enjoyed both AFFC and ADWD but I didn't have to wait for them. I read the whole series in one go and the only problem I had was Briennes pointless boring search, which I assume was supposed to show the plight of the little people in this grand world but I felt that Aryas previous arcs did a well enough job of that. Also Sams story was a bore until he arrived in oldtown.
I feel that alot of the negative reaction to these last two books stems from them being delayed for so long and lacking the payoff ASOS had.
I feel that alot of the negative reaction to these last two books stems from them being delayed for so long and lacking the payoff ASOS had.
Steelyuhas
Member
Yeah I'm pretty disappointed in that. The Greatjon is one of my favorite minor characters in the series and he was great in season 1.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I always wondered if there was a Middlejon.
I enjoyed the journey, and the dialogue. Same thing I enjoy in all the books.
*shrug*
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