You think so? I know what Kevan says, but who's going to rule? The Tyrells? The king is a Lannister.
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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
- Thread starter Pollux
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You think so? I know what Kevan says, but who's going to rule? The Tyrells? The king is a Lannister.
Maergery is probably just going to control him and tell him what to do, so pretty much the tyrells. Unless cersei makes a power grab using robert strong and varys pulls some strings to get her crazy ass back in control so she can fuck things up even more.
Another possibility is the new high septon pretty much running the show and pulling a religion vs king power struggle
Basileus777
Member
He can't wait 4 years before working on the other things he's committed to doing.
Because the world can't wait for new Wild Cards, to hell with ASoIaF
Tim the Wiz
Banned
Hey, I'm sure there are plenty Wild Cards fans somewhere out there, in places we don't know, in populated numbers we might be shocked over, saying the exact opposite. "Quit this Song of Ice and Fire lark, get cracking with more Wild Cards, GRRM!" Or not.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Obviously he wants to bring it into the forefront and ride his GoT prominence to another big franchise. He puts out a new WC book now that GoT is massif, everyone reads it, he gets another adaptation series deal, $_$
Seems obvious to me at least.
I don't hate Cersei's chapters as much as other people do. Sometime, I don't understand the hatred, I may hate her, but her chapters are fun to read because she is batshit insane.
Wow, a real life case of forever alone
That's almost depressing.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Awww, poor guy. The only non - Ice and Fire GRRM book I've read is Fevre Dream, and it was alright.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Don't think so. But they may show up now that winter has come and the others are doing shit.
Tim the Wiz
Banned
Haha, maybe. I doubt it though. It's frustrating definitely, but he's been editing Wild Cards since the 80s and its content is obviously never going to be mainstream. The sf/f community can be pretty insular and I'm sure he's doing it to please his clique and OG fans who were following him pre-Song of Ice and Fire. It's a shared-universe series based on a RPG campaign so I bet the sense of community around it makes it a personal project for him. Wish he'd just acknowledge that ASoIaF has to get done first and let someone else hold its reigns for a while.
I don't think so, but he mentioned Ice Spiders which gives me the creeps, big time.
I don't even want to imagine them U_U
PhoenixDark
Banned
Even the great houses don't have infinite wealth. Outside of the Tyrells and the Lannisters hiring the Golden Company would have hurt the pockets of the major houses even pretty hard.
Also Say you are Robb Stark fighting lannisters and manage to get enough coin to hire a big sell sword company. Odds are they will betray you for more money and all your banner men who mistrusted them will think you foolish as fuck if you even survive.
There are a shit ton of "free riders" who are essentially sell swords but less official and less organized than the groups in the east.
I am current re-reading the series, and am working my way through Storm of Swords. In one of the Jon chapters, where they scale the wall, Ygrette says at the end of the chapter that they disturbed a bunch of graves looking for the horn of winter. But she also says they "let all of those shades loose into the world". Does this mean the Wildlings released the Others?
Basileus777
Member
The disturbed corpses probably became wights.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
Probably just a coincidence, or the others just raise the nearest corpses when they need to.
Still know next to nothing about them. What they came for, what they want, what woke them up again. Nadda.
Do we have any other reference to the wildlings referring to the white walkers as shades? If they were just simple corpses, wouldn't they have burned them as to their tradition?
EDIT: Wait, I am kind of confused on the names for the others. We have the main Others, which aren't dead but ice creatures. Then we have the white walkers/wights, who are re-animated corpses?
They were pillaging the graves in order to escape the Others. So no, they did not release them.
The "Shades" Ygritte mentioned seemed like superstition to me. Disturbing a grave would be similar to breaking guest right. It is odd that the bodies were buried and not burned. Maybe that was just for plot purposes though, otherwise the Wildlings would have nowhere to search for the horn.
That whole Horn of Juramun business is fishy as hell btw. A ton of conflicting stories and accounts. Yet we know a magical dragonhorn exists. So we can't rule out the real Horn of Winter will still pop up somewhere.
I don't think I like this Lady Stoneheart business. It will lead to lots of despair for anyone who Catelyn had good relations with. Shes just a being of pure evil and vengenace at this point, it kind of shits on Catelyn. Maybe thats the point though.
Dollars to donuts, Arya kills Lady Stoneheart.
God, starting writing faster GRRM.
Dollars to donuts, Arya kills Lady Stoneheart.
God, starting writing faster GRRM.
It could be the bodies were buried/graves existed because the Others were not known/seen as a threat when the graves were made. I mean, Martin could have said they were searching for the horn anywhere. It didn't necessarily have to be a grave.
If the Wildlings did know of the Other's existence (and thus were searching for the horn), why would they not burn the bodies? So if the shades are not the animated corpses and the Others were the cause for the search for the horn (and thus the Wildlings did not bring about their return), then shades being a superstition is probably the best answer.
So Ygrette was reduced to tears over a superstition? I doubt she was brought to tears over the loss of Jarl and his men. Do we really have no other reference to shades by the wildlings or people of Westeroth throughout the novels?
I barely 1/3 of the way through Storm of Swords and I am trying not to spoil myself at all, but I figured this would be the best thread for my question:
As I understand it AFFC and ADWD are the same book, split into two books geographically. The events of ADWD happen at roughly the same time as the events in AFFC, but involve different characters in different regions of the world. I don't really like the idea of that.
Have there been any attempts at a fan-made edit, that merges both books into one volume, and presents all events strictly by chronology? As in, they take chapters from ADWD and put them into AFFC where they belong in the world's timeline. I'd love to read the books that way, since most people have said that ADWD is a little monotonous and AFFC got all the good material. Would there be any downside to reading the two books as a single volume? Obviously I'm assuming this can only be done as an eBook or PDF or whatever, but it wouldn't surprise me if someone has attempted it.
If you can answer or respond to my question, please quote this post first -- I'm not reading any other posts in the thread for obvious reasons.
As I understand it AFFC and ADWD are the same book, split into two books geographically. The events of ADWD happen at roughly the same time as the events in AFFC, but involve different characters in different regions of the world. I don't really like the idea of that.
Have there been any attempts at a fan-made edit, that merges both books into one volume, and presents all events strictly by chronology? As in, they take chapters from ADWD and put them into AFFC where they belong in the world's timeline. I'd love to read the books that way, since most people have said that ADWD is a little monotonous and AFFC got all the good material. Would there be any downside to reading the two books as a single volume? Obviously I'm assuming this can only be done as an eBook or PDF or whatever, but it wouldn't surprise me if someone has attempted it.
If you can answer or respond to my question, please quote this post first -- I'm not reading any other posts in the thread for obvious reasons.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I barely 1/3 of the way through Storm of Swords and I am trying not to spoil myself at all, but I figured this would be the best thread for my question:
As I understand it AFFC and ADWD are the same book, split into two books geographically. The events of ADWD happen at roughly the same time as the events in AFFC, but involve different characters in different regions of the world. I don't really like the idea of that.
Have there been any attempts at a fan-made edit, that merges both books into one volume, and presents all events strictly by chronology? As in, they take chapters from ADWD and put them into AFFC where they belong in the world's timeline. I'd love to read the books that way, since most people have said that ADWD is a little monotonous and AFFC got all the good material. Would there be any downside to reading the two books as a single volume? Obviously I'm assuming this can only be done as an eBook or PDF or whatever, but it wouldn't surprise me if someone has attempted it.
If you can answer or respond to my question, please quote this post first -- I'm not reading any other posts in the thread for obvious reasons.
A couple people have done this. Sean T Collins has his version, and someone from Towe Of The Hand (a popular fan site) made one as well. I'd link but I'm on my iPod right now in bed lol
I'd be curious to try it, but I dunno how well it would work. AFFC is considered slow and boring by many fans, although I disagree. Menwhile ADWD is more eventful overall but one of the major stories slows down the book significantly
My major concern is that inserting ADWD chapters into AFFC might somehow result in being spoiled early for major revelations in AFFC - this shouldn't happen if a strict chronology is adhered to, but perhaps moments of irony or foreshadowing in ADWD chapters would point to strongly towards events that are assumed knowledge (since ADWD probably assumes you've read AFFC). The lesser but still important concern is that that it would simply ruin the structure of AFFC. Maybe adding all that padding will make the merged book seem much more plodding and slow.
Strange that you should say ADWD is the meatier and more satisfying book -- I skimmed over the Bore thread and it seems like everyone thought it was much more tedious than its predecessor. But then, I only skimmed it for fear of spoilers.
It doesn't surprise me that someone has tried to merge the two books, but I'd be curious to hear impressions of the merged volume (particularly from people who had read neither AFFC or ADWD beforehand). Shoot me a link if you get the chance.
Basileus777
Member
Half of ADWD takes place after AFFC, and I don't think there is much to be gained from reading it chronologically. On the other hand, ADWD isn't really coherent thematically, just a collection of chapters thrown together, so you don't really lose anything by merging the books either. I don't think you'll be spoiled, though you'll basically have to read a sequence twice because GRRM repeated it in each book for some odd reason.
So in your opinion (or the opinion of anyone else reading this), would it be better to read the two books merged into one, or read them each separately? If spoilers aren't an issue, then the only problem would be how it affects pacing.
From the tone of your post, it sounds as though you don't think it will make much difference one way or the other. In which case I'd probably just ignore the fan edits and read the books in paperback, since I tend to prefer paperbacks over electronic versions.
Basileus777
Member
I'd just read it whatever way is most convenient for you. Reading it chronologically could be an interesting exercise, but with the way these two books are structured I don't really think there is really much to be gained from it.
Read them how they were released for the first time. Afterwards you can tinker around with chapters if you want, but it seems like it'd be a major pain for no reason. Both books are great, with Dance being my second favorite (at least after one read, just started rereading).
And, I'd say it's generally thought that Feast was the weaker one (its definitely the slowest and most uneventful book of the series, but its still great, very quiet character based book), with Dance being dragged down by one character's story.
Edit: And yeah, around the half way point of Dance, you're already passing Feast's timeline.
And, I'd say it's generally thought that Feast was the weaker one (its definitely the slowest and most uneventful book of the series, but its still great, very quiet character based book), with Dance being dragged down by one character's story.
Edit: And yeah, around the half way point of Dance, you're already passing Feast's timeline.
Here's Sean T. Collins' spoiler-free post on his combined AFFC & ADWD reading order: http://boiledleather.com/post/25902554148/a-new-reader-friendly-combined-reading-order-for-a
I am probably going to try this on my next re-read.
I am probably going to try this on my next re-read.
Cpt.Underpants
Member
Saw this post on reddit and kinda got me amazed how the poster added more layers to Sansa and to Jon
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.ph...rethinking-sansa-x/page__st__340#entry3550409
Its a huge post but well worth the read
I've never considered Sansa as important but after reading it......damn. Something big might happen.
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.ph...rethinking-sansa-x/page__st__340#entry3550409
Its a huge post but well worth the read
I've never considered Sansa as important but after reading it......damn. Something big might happen.
that was an excellent post.
Man, I wonder how much of the stuff that fans pick up on GRRM actually intended. If it was just one or two posts like those, I'd believe it, but there are so many posts that go so deeply into themes and character arcs and relationships that it just seems impossible that this story is just THAT thought out.
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
Ugh, that post made me feel like I was back in high school again, overanalyzing the life out of books we were forced to read.
It could be quite a lot. This series has been years in the making. He probably thinks about these kinds of things all the time.
Yeah, I was looking at what he does for research and it's crazy how much work goes into it.
bengraven
Member
And he skips past it, but this further confirms my infamous theory, that Sansa and Jon, once they realize they're cousins, are going to marry.
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