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[Helmholtz]

I was just in the season 3 thread where people were discussing Coldhands and who should play him etc. when I remembered the main thing that I always wanted resolved: Where is Benjen and how will his disappearance factor into the frozen dead invasion or w/e is coming? And then I thought hey are we maybe supposed to assume that Coldhands is somehow Benjen reincarnate or something? As in he managed to find sorcery to keep him alive in the forest and was waiting for Bran?

I may be totally off or this has already been noted as an unlikely possibility but I thought maybe it was worth bringing up with the people here who read the thread more than me.

I think Benjen = Coldhands is a pretty common, but ultimately unconfirmed theory that's floated around this board and others.

 

[Summary Man]

I was just in the season 3 thread where people were discussing Coldhands and who should play him etc. when I remembered the main thing that I always wanted resolved: Where is Benjen and how will his disappearance factor into the frozen dead invasion or w/e is coming? And then I thought hey are we maybe supposed to assume that Coldhands is somehow Benjen reincarnate or something? As in he managed to find sorcery to keep him alive in the forest and was waiting for Bran?

I may be totally off or this has already been noted as an unlikely possibility but I thought maybe it was worth bringing up with the people here who read the thread more than me.

This was my thought while reading the books. I assumed Coldhands was Benjen. If he isn't, then I guess Benjen's disappearance was kind of swept under the rug.

 

[Randdalf]

I think Benjen = Coldhands is a pretty common, but ultimately unconfirmed theory that's floated around this board and others.

Yeah, I think Coldhands will turn out to be Benjen in the end. I think he's a wight but not beholden to the Others because of his first men Stark blood or something like that.

 

[Fey]

This was my thought while reading the books. I assumed Coldhands was Benjen. If he isn't, then I guess Benjen's disappearance was kind of swept under the rug.

I'm sure Benjen will come up sooner or later whether or not he's Coldhands. When GRRM was asked why Benjen is in the Night's Watch, he refused to answer.

I'm not sure about the Benjen = Coldhands theory though. Wherever he is, I hope he ends up in Jon's story. I want a Benjen/Jon reunion.

 

[Aiii]

Even as a Wight, Bran would recognise his uncle. Sam would've seen Jon's resemblance to Coldhands. And they wouldn't say he died a long time ago. Benjen is not Coldhands.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Bran wouldn't recognize an uncle he potentially never met or only a few isolated times as a very small child, and Coldhands hides his face anyway. That said, I agree he's not Benjen, the Children of the Forests have said Coldhands died "long ago" and these things live forever.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Also, there is a line that Coldhands was killed long time ago. If Benjen is dead, he could only has been dead for a few years.

EDIT: beaten

 

[aFIGurANT]

I bet he is alive if nothing else though. I mean the Stark name + the weapon cache seems to point to something grander, even if it's just explained that Benjen talked to Coldhands before dying, or something. Not to mention the first men thing that I hadn't thought about before.

 

[Aiii]

Oh hey eerily similar looking guy to my father who I've seen and spoken too and no doubt seen pictures of around Winterfell. Who are you again? :lol

 

[aFIGurANT]

Oh hey eerily similar looking guy to my father who I've seen and spoken too and no doubt seen pictures of around Winterfell. Who are you again? :lol

Pictures in Westeros? Doubt that. Buut I guess you're probably right that CH is just some dead watchman. I could see a lot of crazy shit going down up north over the course of four books while the last of Ned's generation of Stark has been missing, though. Like the kind of shit that makes someone not recognize someone they should be familiar with.

On a sidenote it would be awesome to see what's been going on in that forest for four books as a set of chapters leading up to a real attack at the wall.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

...Pictures? Really? -_-

Also, why does everyone assume that two men being non-twin brothers would look so much like one another that you'd instantly recognize him? My two brothers look almost nothing alike. -_-

 

[Chris R]

Coldhands is going to be a Brandon from House Stark, just you watch. As to which he will be I don't know.

 

[Aiii]

You guys think it's likely nobody ever drew or painted a nobleman like a son of Winterfell?

Really?

What? All they do as art there is house sigils?

 

[Summary Man]

It seems as though this discussion was had on the last page. Lots of crazy theories, too. Pretty interesting.

 

[Fey]

Bran and Benjen have met, haven't they? Wasn't Benjen in Winterfell the night the Lannisters came over?

 

[brotherbean]

Newish to GAF and haven't read through much of the thread yet, but has it already been discussed as to why Melisandre constantly warned Jon Snow to keep Ghost close near the end of ADWD?

I know a lot of people theorize that she will

Spoiler

bring him back to life Dondarion-style, being a red priestess and all

, but I'm starting to wonder if maybe she intended for him to

Spoiler

warg into Ghost when the time came, which I assume would require the animal to be somewhat close by

.

Apologies if this has been discussed to death already but I hadn't seen quite that angle on it before...

 

[Yonafunu]

Idk if this has been discussed but did you guys see the Wun Wun = a Phil Simms tribute. QB Phil Simms wore #11 (One One) for the NY Giants (Martin's favorite team) and he crushes a knight with a blue star for his sigil (the Cowboys logo). Simms #11 is currently retired in NY. Seems very true because of that last Wun Wun scene. Maybe the name is a coincidence, should've thrown the boulder if he's Simms. What a weird thing for Martin to do.

I made this post in the other thread but it belongs here.

Well, there's also the thing with that whole Jon's death-scene being a reference to the birth of Azor Ahai.

 

[timetokill]

Anybody got any ideas/theories on how Nymeria might play into things again? Or is she just going to be a symbolism tool for Arya?

Last we saw of her she was killing humans and eating them, right? Sounds like Arya.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Newish to GAF and haven't read through much of the thread yet, but has it already been discussed as to why Melisandre constantly warned Jon Snow to keep Ghost close near the end of ADWD?

I know a lot of people theorize that she will

Spoiler

bring him back to life Dondarion-style, being a red priestess and all

, but I'm starting to wonder if maybe she intended for him to

Spoiler

warg into Ghost when the time came, which I assume would require the animal to be somewhat close by

.

Apologies if this has been discussed to death already but I hadn't seen quite that angle on it before...

Possibly, she had images of him being a man, then a wolf, then a man again.

 

[blainethemono]

I'm sure Benjen will come up sooner or later whether or not he's Coldhands. When GRRM was asked why Benjen is in the Night's Watch, he refused to answer.

I'm not sure about the Benjen = Coldhands theory though. Wherever he is, I hope he ends up in Jon's story. I want a Benjen/Jon reunion.

I always kind of assumed Benjen decided to join the nights watch because he had some of the Stark warg powers and was drawn to the north because of that. If that was the case then that could also possibly factor into his disappearance. Even if he ends up being dead he could still appear in another form

 

[aFIGurANT]

It seems as though this discussion was had on the last page. Lots of crazy theories, too. Pretty interesting.

Yeah my bad honestly even bringing it up. Sorry to rehash. But I think most of us can agree it'd be seriously messed up to just never revisit Benjen since there's basically not been a mention of the character in so long as to appear conspicuous. Hopefully we get some of the resolution up north that we're all craving in the new book.

 

[timetokill]

Benjen is frozen somewhere in the ice. Bran wargs into him, and gets stuck there, like Jack Nicholson in The Shining.

 

[Randdalf]

Even as a Wight, Bran would recognise his uncle. Sam would've seen Jon's resemblance to Coldhands. And they wouldn't say he died a long time ago. Benjen is not Coldhands.

Coldhands conceals his face behind a scarf, they haven't seen his face.

 

[aFIGurANT]

Benjen is frozen somewhere in the ice. Bran wargs into him, and gets stuck there, like Jack Nicholson in The Shining.

That's almost good enough to work, I think. I lol'd anyway. Maybe if you email GRRM he'll include it.

 

[ZaCH3000]

Sorry for not responding in a long time or following up on my promise, I promise I will post a summary of Heresy in the near future. Its going to be a daunting task reading through almost 20,000 posts but if enough people want me to do it I will summarize the entire thread. I can compile all of the interesting ideas into a single summary in a week or two.

 

[bengraven]

I'm now convinced that Benjen is just awol. What if he found a woman and settled down. Our a man. Maybe he killed his guys to protect his secret.

 

[Fiftyeight]

I have a feeling Benjen is either with Howland Reed or will help lead Jon to him. Either way, I feel as though Benjen is vital to Jon learning about his real parents.

 

[Trojita]

I always kind of assumed Benjen decided to join the nights watch because he had some of the Stark warg powers and was drawn to the north because of that. If that was the case then that could also possibly factor into his disappearance. Even if he ends up being dead he could still appear in another form

Benjen became a brother of the Nights Watch because he was the youngest member of the family. The younger siblings of a lord don't really see much of a role for themselves generally in these familes. Brandon was to be the next Lord, Eddard was the backup, and Lyanna was a woman to be wed to a noble lord. It was seen as an honorable thing to do, especially for people of the North.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

I have a feeling Benjen is either with Howland Reed or will help lead Jon to him. Either way, I feel as though Benjen is vital to Jon learning about his real parents.

Yea...sooner/later Stannis will die. The NW + Stannis Army + North will unite and go for the Iron Throne with Jon as the heir.

The final battle for the Iron Throne between Lannisters/Tyrell vs Jon's band vs dragons

Spoiler

I love coming up with crazy theories

 

[blainethemono]

Benjen became a brother of the Nights Watch because he was the youngest member of the family. The younger siblings of a lord don't really see much of a role for themselves generally in these familes. Brandon was to be the next Lord, Eddard was the backup, and Lyanna was a woman to be wed to a noble lord. It was seen as an honorable thing to do, especially for people of the North.

That too. That would be the main reason. But him also wanting to learn more about the whole warg thing would be another interesting motivator for him to do it. He spends a lot of time beyond the wall, it'd be fun if he was aware of the three eyed crow and has been waiting for Bran to reach him

Someone mentioned earlier that GRRM was asked why Benjen joined the Night's Watch and he refused to give an answer. So unless he's just fucking with people again there might be another reason besides the obvious one.

Also Benjen stayed at Winterfell during the Greyjoy rebellion. He didn't join the watch until long after Brandon died, then he just decides to join the watch shortly after Ned returns

 

[Fiftyeight]

I don't think any Stark will ever take the throne. The house is too noble and has no real interest in it.

I see Dany somehow forming an alliance with the north and a battle taking place with the Others, who by now are slowly pouring southward into the realm. I see her dying at some point near the end.

Honestly, I believe that once all is said and done, Stannis will be sitting atop King's Landing. He's done everything by the book; he's earned it. But I don't see the throne having as much significance as it once did. He will be a fair ruler over his kingdom, but that kingdom won't include the North. I'd go as far to saying it might split up into the seven kingdoms again (or something of the sort).

 

[FUBAR McDangles]

Yea...sooner/later Stannis will die. The NW + Stannis Army + North will unite and go for the Iron Throne with Jon as the heir.

The final battle for the Iron Throne between Lannisters/Tyrell vs Jon's band vs dragons

Spoiler

I love coming up with crazy theories

Would not surprise me in the slightest.

But I think that will happen in the 6th book/early 7th. The actual final battle, IMO, will be against the dead. They were introduced in the first chapter of the first book, I think it would only be fitting if they are dealt with up until the last chapter of the last book.

 

[Massa]

I don't think [...] will ever take the throne...

Every time I read speculation like this I ask: does it even matter who takes the throne anymore?

 

[Fey]

Every time I read speculation like this I ask: does it even matter who takes the throne anymore?

yeah, i think the books have moved far and away from that.

with all the mess concerning who'll sit on the throne + the plethora of people wanting to rule westeros, i have a feeling the series will end with no one ending up on the throne, or a democracy being set up or something.

 

[hythloday]

yeah, i think the books have moved far and away from that.

with all the mess concerning who'll sit on the throne + the plethora of people wanting to rule westeros, i have a feeling the series will end with no one ending up on the throne, or a democracy being set up or something.

I've started to believe Daenerys will never make it to Westeros after winding up in the ruins of Valyria or something and having some epiphany about staying there and being Queen and bringing back the dragons and her family line.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

^ That'd.... actually be kinda cool and unexpected.

 

[Basileus777]

^ That'd.... actually be kinda cool and unexpected.

It'd be awful and poor writing, but if she met some terrible end, it could be oddly satisfying as well.

 

[rando14]

Isn't valyria like a decimated and barren wasteland? Why would she stay there?

EDIT: on second thought it'd be cool to see valyria at least once though

 

[PhoenixDark]

The most comprehensive collection of Varys/Illyrio info and conspiracy discussion I've seen. Very interesting stuff:
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/53705-adwd-spoilers-the-varys-illyrio-conspiracy/

I especially like this part of the conclusion

•There is some suggestion that this whole conspiracy is just Varys and Illyrio's former trick on a larger scale. Varys, as the thief, "steals" the realm from the Targaryens, and then Illyrio emerges and offers to help them regain it for a price.

 

[Drkirby]

Coldhands is going to be a Brandon from House Stark, just you watch. As to which he will be I don't know.

Plot twist, its Brandon the Builder!

 

[Chris R]

Plot twist, its Brandon the Builder!

He's one of them, either him or Brandon the shipwright. Someone from the old times would be my guess.

 

[suzu]

The Night's King (the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch who got with a female Other) is also a Bran Stark.

 

[Trojita]

I've started to believe Daenerys will never make it to Westeros after winding up in the ruins of Valyria or something and having some epiphany about staying there and being Queen and bringing back the dragons and her family line.

The Dragons are needed to fight The Others.

I don't think any Stark will ever take the throne. The house is too noble and has no real interest in it.

I see Dany somehow forming an alliance with the north and a battle taking place with the Others, who by now are slowly pouring southward into the realm. I see her dying at some point near the end.

Honestly, I believe that once all is said and done, Stannis will be sitting atop King's Landing. He's done everything by the book; he's earned it. But I don't see the throne having as much significance as it once did. He will be a fair ruler over his kingdom, but that kingdom won't include the North. I'd go as far to saying it might split up into the seven kingdoms again (or something of the sort).

Stannis still has that whole shadow thing, I don't think he is going to get away from that without a price.

 

[John Dunbar]

The Dragons are needed to fight The Others.

They didn't seem to be needed the last time the Others showed up, and they can clearly be killed even without dragons, so maybe not. At least I don't remember any mention of dragons being involved in combating them. Dragons might just be some crazy extreme of Fire, as the Others are of Ice, and need to be destroyed for a balance of some kind.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I think Dany will die after her final betrayal, dunno who how/who though. I do think she will make it to Westeros although perhaps not willingly; Victarion might capture and enslave her/her dragons.

Isn't there a potential future vision in one of the books about the Others being defeated on the Trident by fire? Dragons may not be needed in general to kill them, but last time the realm was more prepared; there was less chaos, the Starks and north fortified the Wall properly, there was more dragon glass etc. Whereas an Other attack now would catch the realm off guard and could only be defeated by dragons: the Wall is broken in many ways, the North doesn't have a Stark, the Iron Throne is unstable, etc. I can imagine Stannis winning Winterfell only to be forced back to the Wall to deal with Others.

Perhaps Benjen will be the one to bring news that the Long Night will return, after learning more about the Others (from the children of the forest).

 

[TCRS]

Bran and Benjen have met, haven't they? Wasn't Benjen in Winterfell the night the Lannisters came over?

Yeah, what was he doing there? I thought they're not allowed to leave the wall.

I thought Benjen joined NW because the Starks have always been manning the wall according to Ned in the TV show. So like there must always be a Stark in the NW or something.

 

[Trojita]

Yeah, what was he doing there? I thought they're not allowed to leave the wall.

I thought Benjen joined NW because the Starks have always been manning the wall according to Ned in the TV show. So like there must always be a Stark in the NW or something.

Brothers of the Nights Watch are allowed to leave the wall on approved business. How do you think they have brothers leaving to get recruits?

 

[TCRS]

Yeah I know that one guy is allowed to leave the wall for recruits. But Benjen visiting his brother hardly seems like a legitimate reason. Or maybe him recruiting people from his brothers dungeons was the task...

Anyway, I'm going to start with the books again. I grew tired of The Wise Man's Fear and I thought of reading a whole new fantasy series, but I'm just going to start with ASOIAF again. so excited!

 

[Trojita]

Yeah I know that one guy is allowed to leave the wall for recruits. But Benjen visiting his brother hardly seems like a legitimate reason. Or maybe him recruiting people from his brothers dungeons was the task...

Anyway, I'm going to start with the books again. I grew tired of The Wise Man's Fear and I thought of reading a whole new fantasy series, but I'm just going to start with ASOIAF again. so excited!

The King of the realm was coming to the Lord of the North's Capitol. The Lord of the North also happens to be Benjen's brother. The Night's Watch is always trying to get their voice heard, even when it comes most of the time on deaf ears. I'm sure Mormont sent him specifically because of that.

 

[Basileus777]

Yeah I know that one guy is allowed to leave the wall for recruits. But Benjen visiting his brother hardly seems like a legitimate reason. Or maybe him recruiting people from his brothers dungeons was the task...

Anyway, I'm going to start with the books again. I grew tired of The Wise Man's Fear and I thought of reading a whole new fantasy series, but I'm just going to start with ASOIAF again. so excited!

Getting a chance to meet with the King is definitely a worthy reason for an officer of the Watch to leave for a few weeks.